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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

19091939596165

Comments

  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    Here is a link to a review of the 2004 in the British press.
    http://www.autocarmagazine.com/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT_ID=20416- 9
  • bluestar1bluestar1 Member Posts: 112
    "But is all this enough to lure buyers away from Jag, BMW and Mercedes showrooms? Sadly not. While the LS will continue to appeal to those wanting sybaritic comfort, benchmark refinement and a not-too-demanding driving experience, its lack of soul and continued me-too styling is unlikely to win it any new friends"

    That has to be pretty harsh !

    My apologies to those who consider themselves as car-enthusiast ! BUT, can anyone explain to me why there is this desire/need to have the car "... provide more feedback to the driver." A luxury car should be all about luxury features, smoothness, refinement, quality, ride and handling, and functional gizmos. Throw in excellent customer relationship/service.

    Maybe I cannot understand, ever ! IMHO, the LS is the best overall luxury car under $75K. If anyone can find another car better than the LS in that price range, I'd like to hear it.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    But when you get up into these elevations you must oftentime exclude price as a criteria.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It's the best luxury sedan under $100k actually.

    I don't know how often you go to the UK or Europe (I often do) but you have to understand that there is a deep rooted nationalistic feeling there. If products are not made there they don't like them and they want them to fail. Much of this stems from a great sense of pride that European products and cultural interests are superior to all others. Remember all the bad press on Euro-Disneyland. The press literally drove it into the ground before it opened by trying to turn off the people. They viewed a theme park like that as beneath them.

    Lexus sales in Great Britain are growing fast now so the the threat is greater than ever. Hence the bad press - particularly about the one luxury sedan that can really be called a "poor man's Rolls Royce" or maybe given price point it should be phrased as a less wealthy man. On top of that the real joke here is that the Jag is a cushiony ride car and hardly a performance sedan. The other funny thing is this writer said that the euro suspension hurt the ride while automobile magazine said the exact opposite. I'll side with automobile for a simple reason. A friend and neighbor of mine has a 2001 LS lease expiring next month. He has the base suspension now. He just test drove a euro suspension and told me the ride is phenomenal - better than his 2001. He ordered a black 2004 euro on the spot which he will take next weekend..

    Somewhere way back when on this board or the high end board someone posted a story from a mag where an MB or BMW exec called a writer about a story he had written. It was an early Lexus story in which the writer predicted success for Lexus in America and that the Germans would have to change how they do things quickly. If I remember correctly the exec said that wouldn't be the case and wanted the writer to amend his statements. The writer said Lexus will be a strong competitive threat and would not change his opinion. Naturally he was right and the exec was wrong as MB and BMW had to do a number of things - including update technology much quicker (which is now leading to a host of reliability problems), provide bigger engines and reduce prices - all of which happened pretty soon aftewrward. Don't think for a second the writers in Europe and the UK are not being pressed by execs of the luxury brands. But nothing stops a great product in the long-term. And no automotive company has deeper pockets than Toyota.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    It didn't hurt Lexus at all that within the US Lincohn and Cadillac were no serious competition.

    I suspect they'll have trouble making inroads in Germany and no where else for the same reasons.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Anybody know what a LS430 costs compared to a 7 or S class in Germany?
  • mheni1mheni1 Member Posts: 41
    It will soon be time to replace the original Dunlop tires on my '01 LS 430. I am looking for a quite, smooth ride. Have noted several posts recommending Michelin. Will appreciate any current thoughts on Michelin v. Dunlop. Thanks.
  • bluestar1bluestar1 Member Posts: 112
    Read somewhere about the Bridgestone Turanza's as meeting all of your requirements. Ditto the Michelin MXV4. I have the Dunlop Sport A2 on my '99, but IMO it isn't as quiet as the previous ones I had on (Continental). If I had to do it all over again, I'll get the summer Turanzas in the H-rated.

    Check out tirerack.com for comparisons on these tires.
  • elrayls430elrayls430 Member Posts: 10
    My 03 LS430 came with Turanzas and they are very quiet. I just got my new issue of Consumer Reports; they choose Turanza as the best all-season sedan tire. CU also finally broke down and tested luxury sedans in this issue (they just hate expensive cars!). Guess who won? The LS430 of course!
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    elrayls430,
      That's great news! Some more ammo to use against the MB loyalists. I don't think anyone can argue with Consumer Reports being biased.

    As for tires, The MXV4's give a superb ride, but are costly. I felt the Turanza to be a better value and slightly better performer. I don't know what it is with Lexus, they really ought to spend more $$$ on tires. These Dunolop Sport 270's on my LS430 are too noisy and incredibly expensive..I'll probably get some Turanza's when they wear out.

    SV
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    To an MB loyalist, anything that doesn't put MB on top is either biased or using the wrong criteria to judge cars.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It doesn't have the bias of car mags. It has instead the interest of the buying public and test cars the way the public will drive them. It also will only recommend cars that score well in reliability. For some of those who choose to dismiss CR's independent view, it should be noted that CR raves about the 5 series, and if I remember right rated it the best car ever, but for different reasons than the car mags do. However cars like the S, 7 and LS were not rated with the 5 series because of price point.
  • tturedraidertturedraider Member Posts: 159
    I'm a big fan of CR. But, sometimes I think they're a little "stuff shirted" in their reviews. They have a hard time really appreciating the character and personality of different cars. They can be kind of a boring lot. "Just the facts, ma'am."

    fwiw - I really am a big fan of CR. I bought a '96 Infiniti G20 in large part because of their review. I have really enjoyed that car. [OK, ok. No 4-banger comments! :-)]
  • swidaswida Member Posts: 2
    I just test-drove an '04 LS430 this afternoon. Compared to the 03's...Is it my imagination? My experience was that 1) the seats are firmer 2) the suspension is stiffer (I test-drove the regular suspension) and 3) EGADS it seemed less quiet. It really felt more like a GS vs. a luxury sedan. Has anyone else experienced this?
  • sidgriggssidgriggs Member Posts: 122
    Has anyone had experience using a bluetooth phone with the Nav system on the 04 LS430. The phone models which Lexus says are compatible with AT&T are Nokia 6310i and SonyEricsson T68i; with T-mobile: SonyEricsson T610. Those AT&T models have been out for a while and are being replaced by new models per the AT&T salesman I just talked to--it would also seem that the SonyEricsson (model T616) for AT&T which is the same as the T-mobile model T610 should work with the system. Any thoughts on the new models working--or any experience with these???
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    Excellent tire,should meet all your requirments.Please note,...if you decide on this tire, be sure to get the "PLUS" model.There is a MXV4, without the "plus". This is not the same tire.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
      I saw the new LS430 at the dealer. While the changes aren't drastic enough to make my '02 look old, I do find these frequent model changes annoying. Is there any specific reason Lexus updates so frequently. I could swear that MB and BMW keep their designs around longer.

    The technical changes are pretty interesting. I'm going to avoid driving a new one, lest I be tempted to trade the '02. I'll try and wait until the 2006 Hybrid model. Hmm so much for the Japanese being lacking in pursing innovative technology. This trumps MB's Traction control systems and their so called innovation.

    SV
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I posted this here sometime ago, but if you didn't see it there is a euro Lexus hybrid site:
    http://en.lexus-hybrid.com/home.html
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    I have the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tire and previously posted that they were not as quiet as the Dunlops from the factory. After about 6k miles and a tire pressure change they are now very quiet. I am very satisfied with these tires.
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    What pressure's are you running now?
  • ronjonazronjonaz Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone have any inside information as to when the Custom Luxury model will be available for the 2004 LS430? I had wanted a Custom Luxury model when I purchased my 2001 LS but it wasn't available until about 3 or 4 months after I purchased mine. I am looking to purchase a 2004 LS 430, but I have been told that the custom model won't be available until sometime next year.
    I am willing to wait as long as 4 months as long as I have some reasonable chance that it will be available by Feb or March of 2004.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It's interesting that the website - at my last check - had the custom lux package in its build your Lexus window. But the ultra was missing. I would think the custom lux would be available immediately. In 2001 they made it known that the custom lux would be very late to the party as the factory wasn't set up for it early on. But that was then and now we have a few years of this new model behind us.

    2004 refreshment - the 2004 is really just an update. MB also updated the S-class after 3 years and BMW will likely update the 7 series next year.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Has Lexus EVER delivered an LS430 custom luxury vehicle. I'm still waiting....
  • swidaswida Member Posts: 2
    i test drove a custom luxury model in northern california yesterday - coliseum lexus

    stiffer than 03 is my impression - partly due to 17 in tire I suspect..per my earlier post, I think the 04 seems less "cushy" - can this be?
  • tturedraidertturedraider Member Posts: 159
    Marketing/Sales is one of the main reasons for more frequent styling updates. For just the reason you mentioned that you would not be driving one to avoid the temptation to switch. That's exactly what Lexus wants you to do - switch, have the "latest and greatest".

    The longer body style cycles is a fairly new thing for the auto industry. A cost saving measure. Remember the "old" days - 50s, 60s, early 70s - dramatically different body styles every 2-4 years was the norm. Lots of competition to have the freshest design.

    I find it interesting (and a little surprising) that Lexus puts the extra effort and money into updating its cars halfway through the body style life cycle. To me, it actually sets them apart as one of the high level luxury marques.
  • tdo123tdo123 Member Posts: 102
    Everywhere that I am looking is telling me to look at the Michelin Pilot Sport or the Turanza E42's. I have also heard the the GoodYear is a quiet great handling tire that does Ok in bad weather. I am also talking about the 17's and not the 16's.

    Has anyone looked into the Pilot for the new body LS430
  • hage57hage57 Member Posts: 24
    I have been running the pilot sport a/s for one year on my '01 LS 430, custom lux. It is a great tire and much better in wet conditions. I have 17" rims, thus run the 225/55-17's. This is an all season tire, but I still would suggest winter tires for the snow season.
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    From an earlier post, there was the question of compatibility btwn the 2001 systems and the new update to the 2003 DVD with 5 million POI's. Today I rec'd my new 2003 DVD which the vendor swore was compatible and that the non-compat. posts were incorrect. I can now attest that the vendor is right. My 2001 took the newly updated 2003MY with 5 million POI's without a hiccup. It loaded automatically (certainly no need to pay anyone money to do this) and runs fine. I have yet to really test it and see if there is noticeable improvement in the database or road coverage. But IT DOES WORK.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    In the November 2003 issue, the LS430 (2003 Ultra version [MINE ! :-) ] ) was tested with the S430, 745LI, A8L, Deville, Town Car, and XJ8. Guess what! The only recommended was the LS430, and it was the highest rated. It was the only with an excellent reliability rating. The others were either too new or poor; as in the Benz, Caddy, and the BMW.

    The tested 0-60mph of 7.1 seconds made me wondered if they had 90 year olds testing the car....

    Go get the issue! I am very happy I made my purchase back in July!

    Paul
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Any regrets on not waiting to 2004?

    I saw those 0-60 times and they were all way off the mark. But CR definitely views things from an owners perspective. Having driven the A8 recently I can tell you that I coroborate what they say about the less satisfactory ride. It was choppy on 18" wheels (I wouldn't want to feel it on 19" ones) and rather disappointing. Nonetheless - a stunning car inside and out but not one I'd want to drive everyday. I don't see it converting the Lexus or MB crowd. I've not driven the 7-series so I can't say anything about it.

    I like the bluetooth technology and the 18" wheel option on the 2004 LS. I hope bluetooth works with my cell phone. I have a Samsung SCH-A540 and its the first cell phone that I have ever been satisfied with so I have no intent of going back to my problematic Nokia's and Motorola's. I also like the back-up camera but more so for the LX470. Still haven't driven the 2004 but a neighbor drove the sport suspension, loved it and re-upped his lease for another 3 years. I may go with him on Saturday to pick it up. If I do I'll take a 2004 out for a drive.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    Life is full of regrets. For starters, I didn't marry Jodie Foster back in Yale (class of 1985)....

    Anyway, I would have been really pissed if the outside modifications were really noticeable from 10 feet; which they are not. The 2004 extras are very very very nice, and I do wished I had them. that said, I am glad that they did not add massaging front seats to the 2004, as I missed this feature which was in my Benz.

    My 5 year old son would have liked the rear vanity mirrors, as he had one on our 2001 S500.

    Overall, I made the compromise that a 3 year old model should be more reliable than any new model. Of course, I was proven wrong, as I had those annoying door noise anyway.

    But I cannot complain about getting my 2003 Ultra LS430 at dealer's cost! This was the bottom line.

    Paul
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I love your delivery. You should become a writer.

    Jodie Foster - huh. She was great in Panic Room and I loved her role in that space movie several years back (where they build a vehicle to the stars) but the name escapes me at the moment.

    I'm really anxious to see the 2004 in the dark charcoal color. I'm leaning in that direction for color choice. I don't remember - what color interior did you get and if it is black how satisfied are you with such a dark color?
  • tdo123tdo123 Member Posts: 102
    Space Movie - Contact
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    Mrs Chiu didn't like black/black; so we went silver/black. Very close to the last car:

    http://www.pbase.com/image/21525975/original

    This is probably the easiest color to keep clean.

    Paul
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Flint350...where did you get the updated DVD? You mentioned a vendor...assuming that's not the Lexus dealer who will charge an arm and a leg...plus installation charges. Would you mind going into some of the details on your NAV update purchase? (from whom? how much? etc) I think there might be a lot of us out there who could benefit from what you learned. Many thanks...
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I did some research on them and they are essentially a fleet seller. Depending on where you live they will have a car dealer in your area deliver the car to your door or they will ship the car from an area - such as California - if you happen to live in an area where the price is high - such as NY metro area. They pay the shipping and the price quoted on the website is all inclusive except for the normal tax, tags etc you would pay your dealer. They have a host of lenders that they deal with - all of which supposedly have better finance rates than Lexus finance. Now the only 2004 they have on the website now is a $71k+ ultra that they are selling for $2k under MSRP. The guy told me the car is hot right now and even they are having a hard time getting it. But that will change by January just like it did in 2001. The lease deal on the car is a 51 month deal with 10% down and on this particular LS the payment is $739 a month. If I interest effect the down payment at a CD type of rate then you are dealing with an adjusted lease payment of around $900 per month (today - I'd expect that to be in the $850 range by January) which is a lot cheaper than the $1300+ the ultra was leasing for in 2001 around this time of year, albeit for 36 month leases. Anyway it is just food for thought for those in the market to buy or lease.

    Will I use them? Who knows. Depends on the deals here and the discrepancy in prices but I sure will use them as a negotiating chip in my LX and LS negotiations later this year and early next year.

    By the way they have some excellent deals on LX470's (GX 470's also) and If I buy outright - which I might - I may well buy through them as I just don't see my dealer matching their LX prices.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    JD Power announced the results of their 2003 APEAL Awards and Lexus finished on top in a few categories. For those that don't know, the study measures "owners' delight with the design, content, layout and performance" of their new vehicles.

    Lexus won several awards including the #1 nameplate (Porsche was #2 and BMW #3) and the LS 430 was the highest ranked premium luxury car (Mercedes SL was #2 and BMW 7 Series #3).
  • wbwynnwbwynn Member Posts: 246
    ljflx-I'm back...excellent comments on using them as a bargaining chip even if you decide not to buy from them. I expect the deals they offer will get better in 04'. I still have 8 months left on my LS lease, but I cannot think of my local dealer beating them.

    2001 LS has been a great experience...absolutely no problems. I am going to test drive the GX for fun, but will likely buy the 04' LS. Just haven't seen anything that can touch it, and they even held the prices to 01' levels.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    There were color brochures back in June that listed Lexus as winner in all these categories. Very well prepared marketing material. I guess they won for another year. Great job Lexus.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I missed you buddy. Is it time for us to start negotiating deals again and comparing?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Nice looking car, great looking child. :)
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    jbianco, not sure of the rules here on this but I obtained my update from lexus-parts.com (Sewell) for $288. Installing it yourself takes all of about 5 minutes. The update is nice, has some road and map icon changes from my ver. 2000 which came with my 2001. Plus the claimed 5 million POI's. (I'll be a while checking that out). Let me know if you need more info or on how to install (very easy - do not pay some dealer $150 to do this). Hope this helps.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'll start shopping the LS in the January/February time frame so we may be on the same schedule again. I don't need three cars anymore so I'm likely not going to need the car until April. I'll need the LX in January as I only took a 30 month deal before. I'm not sure what version LS I'm going to go for. I may go the full ultra route or I may stop at the sport suspension version. But I'm not going anywhere else. The car and the experience are too good for that.

    By the way LexusUS.com sounded like really good people to deal with.

    Flint350 - What do you typically drive the ultra in. Sport or lux ride and do you notice any material differences between them. If you were doing it again today would you go the ultra route?
  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    Thanks for the update on the NAV for the "o1 LS430. I'd appreciate your installation instructions, just in case...
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    ljflx - almost always in "normal", not sport mode. I use the sport occasionally, but i really can't say i see much diff - just a little bit. If I were doing it again I'd do the same - ultra - unless the custom lux was available. At the time we ordered the custom wasn't an option. I'd not mind losing the rear a/c and controls, seat massagers (prefer in front with me).

    feverhart - install is nothing more than removing carpet in trunk (just roll it to the left side), take off the obvious cover on right side of trunk to expose the unit. Remove the two side screws and tilt the machine up, exposing the front insert slot. Have the car powered up, slide the left little slot cover open (just left of DVD slot)to expose the eject button. Push that and exchange the DVD's. Be sure car is powered (doesn't need to be running, just key in the accessory position) for the exchange - the update will begin automatically and display on then nav screen. Once complete, just tilt unit back down and resecure screws and cover. Your version should now show 3.1 versus our old 2000 1.0

    There are some small changes to map icons and displays, but the voice sounds the same to me (thought someone said the voice had changed). I don't know the cutoff date of the database, but I was disappointed in some of the POI's I looked for that still weren't there - restaurants that have been in existence about a year or so. But others are there. Overall, seems ok, if still expensive. I also have a Garmin Street Pilot III that I use in my other vehicles - they are offering an update to that system and want $150 for one CD (not DVD)and it is for full country.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    But you don't get the air suspension with the custom lux package. It is only on the ultra. Given that would you still pick the air suspension and ultra over the custom lux? Or would you pass up the air suspension?

    I'd tend to opt for the custom lux if they let you take the sport suspension with it.

    Paul - how do you like the air suspension on the LS? By the way I side with Mrs. Chiu. I can't go black on black again. That's what I had in 1998 on my LS400 and I got tired of it. I would have also taken the brilliant silver in 2001 if I had taken an S-class so I like your ex-car.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    The air suspension on my Ultra LS is very buttery, and that gliding sensation is even more noticeable on good roads than my S500. On average New York city roads (meaning bad to potholes hell), the ride is about the same as on the S500. It is FAR better than the BMW 7 series on bad roads.

    I think the air suspension is better than the regular version on bad roads, but very hard to perceive on good roads.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    Leonard,

    I will finally take that 1st 400+ miles trip on my LS this Saturday to the Poconos. I vividly remember all my drives there in my S500.

    I am not waiting this time for 90-100% "colors" and will see if 50-70% colors is better.

    I also hope that the annoying door noise does not sneak out during the trip.

    Now planning for the CD's to use is the hard part!

    Do you have any favorite routes or restaurants there?
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I'm not one to take folliage trips, but you could also try the Berkshires (western Mass.) some year if you've never been.
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    What's good to visit there? Sounds like a great idea. As the weather seems even more promising there.

    68 and sunny this Saturday there....

    An even longer trip too!
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