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http://www.autocarmagazine.com/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT_ID=20416- 9
That has to be pretty harsh !
My apologies to those who consider themselves as car-enthusiast ! BUT, can anyone explain to me why there is this desire/need to have the car "... provide more feedback to the driver." A luxury car should be all about luxury features, smoothness, refinement, quality, ride and handling, and functional gizmos. Throw in excellent customer relationship/service.
Maybe I cannot understand, ever ! IMHO, the LS is the best overall luxury car under $75K. If anyone can find another car better than the LS in that price range, I'd like to hear it.
I don't know how often you go to the UK or Europe (I often do) but you have to understand that there is a deep rooted nationalistic feeling there. If products are not made there they don't like them and they want them to fail. Much of this stems from a great sense of pride that European products and cultural interests are superior to all others. Remember all the bad press on Euro-Disneyland. The press literally drove it into the ground before it opened by trying to turn off the people. They viewed a theme park like that as beneath them.
Lexus sales in Great Britain are growing fast now so the the threat is greater than ever. Hence the bad press - particularly about the one luxury sedan that can really be called a "poor man's Rolls Royce" or maybe given price point it should be phrased as a less wealthy man. On top of that the real joke here is that the Jag is a cushiony ride car and hardly a performance sedan. The other funny thing is this writer said that the euro suspension hurt the ride while automobile magazine said the exact opposite. I'll side with automobile for a simple reason. A friend and neighbor of mine has a 2001 LS lease expiring next month. He has the base suspension now. He just test drove a euro suspension and told me the ride is phenomenal - better than his 2001. He ordered a black 2004 euro on the spot which he will take next weekend..
Somewhere way back when on this board or the high end board someone posted a story from a mag where an MB or BMW exec called a writer about a story he had written. It was an early Lexus story in which the writer predicted success for Lexus in America and that the Germans would have to change how they do things quickly. If I remember correctly the exec said that wouldn't be the case and wanted the writer to amend his statements. The writer said Lexus will be a strong competitive threat and would not change his opinion. Naturally he was right and the exec was wrong as MB and BMW had to do a number of things - including update technology much quicker (which is now leading to a host of reliability problems), provide bigger engines and reduce prices - all of which happened pretty soon aftewrward. Don't think for a second the writers in Europe and the UK are not being pressed by execs of the luxury brands. But nothing stops a great product in the long-term. And no automotive company has deeper pockets than Toyota.
I suspect they'll have trouble making inroads in Germany and no where else for the same reasons.
Check out tirerack.com for comparisons on these tires.
That's great news! Some more ammo to use against the MB loyalists. I don't think anyone can argue with Consumer Reports being biased.
As for tires, The MXV4's give a superb ride, but are costly. I felt the Turanza to be a better value and slightly better performer. I don't know what it is with Lexus, they really ought to spend more $$$ on tires. These Dunolop Sport 270's on my LS430 are too noisy and incredibly expensive..I'll probably get some Turanza's when they wear out.
SV
fwiw - I really am a big fan of CR. I bought a '96 Infiniti G20 in large part because of their review. I have really enjoyed that car. [OK, ok. No 4-banger comments! :-)]
I saw the new LS430 at the dealer. While the changes aren't drastic enough to make my '02 look old, I do find these frequent model changes annoying. Is there any specific reason Lexus updates so frequently. I could swear that MB and BMW keep their designs around longer.
The technical changes are pretty interesting. I'm going to avoid driving a new one, lest I be tempted to trade the '02. I'll try and wait until the 2006 Hybrid model. Hmm so much for the Japanese being lacking in pursing innovative technology. This trumps MB's Traction control systems and their so called innovation.
SV
http://en.lexus-hybrid.com/home.html
I am willing to wait as long as 4 months as long as I have some reasonable chance that it will be available by Feb or March of 2004.
2004 refreshment - the 2004 is really just an update. MB also updated the S-class after 3 years and BMW will likely update the 7 series next year.
stiffer than 03 is my impression - partly due to 17 in tire I suspect..per my earlier post, I think the 04 seems less "cushy" - can this be?
The longer body style cycles is a fairly new thing for the auto industry. A cost saving measure. Remember the "old" days - 50s, 60s, early 70s - dramatically different body styles every 2-4 years was the norm. Lots of competition to have the freshest design.
I find it interesting (and a little surprising) that Lexus puts the extra effort and money into updating its cars halfway through the body style life cycle. To me, it actually sets them apart as one of the high level luxury marques.
Has anyone looked into the Pilot for the new body LS430
The tested 0-60mph of 7.1 seconds made me wondered if they had 90 year olds testing the car....
Go get the issue! I am very happy I made my purchase back in July!
Paul
I saw those 0-60 times and they were all way off the mark. But CR definitely views things from an owners perspective. Having driven the A8 recently I can tell you that I coroborate what they say about the less satisfactory ride. It was choppy on 18" wheels (I wouldn't want to feel it on 19" ones) and rather disappointing. Nonetheless - a stunning car inside and out but not one I'd want to drive everyday. I don't see it converting the Lexus or MB crowd. I've not driven the 7-series so I can't say anything about it.
I like the bluetooth technology and the 18" wheel option on the 2004 LS. I hope bluetooth works with my cell phone. I have a Samsung SCH-A540 and its the first cell phone that I have ever been satisfied with so I have no intent of going back to my problematic Nokia's and Motorola's. I also like the back-up camera but more so for the LX470. Still haven't driven the 2004 but a neighbor drove the sport suspension, loved it and re-upped his lease for another 3 years. I may go with him on Saturday to pick it up. If I do I'll take a 2004 out for a drive.
Anyway, I would have been really pissed if the outside modifications were really noticeable from 10 feet; which they are not. The 2004 extras are very very very nice, and I do wished I had them. that said, I am glad that they did not add massaging front seats to the 2004, as I missed this feature which was in my Benz.
My 5 year old son would have liked the rear vanity mirrors, as he had one on our 2001 S500.
Overall, I made the compromise that a 3 year old model should be more reliable than any new model. Of course, I was proven wrong, as I had those annoying door noise anyway.
But I cannot complain about getting my 2003 Ultra LS430 at dealer's cost! This was the bottom line.
Paul
Jodie Foster - huh. She was great in Panic Room and I loved her role in that space movie several years back (where they build a vehicle to the stars) but the name escapes me at the moment.
I'm really anxious to see the 2004 in the dark charcoal color. I'm leaning in that direction for color choice. I don't remember - what color interior did you get and if it is black how satisfied are you with such a dark color?
http://www.pbase.com/image/21525975/original
This is probably the easiest color to keep clean.
Paul
Will I use them? Who knows. Depends on the deals here and the discrepancy in prices but I sure will use them as a negotiating chip in my LX and LS negotiations later this year and early next year.
By the way they have some excellent deals on LX470's (GX 470's also) and If I buy outright - which I might - I may well buy through them as I just don't see my dealer matching their LX prices.
Lexus won several awards including the #1 nameplate (Porsche was #2 and BMW #3) and the LS 430 was the highest ranked premium luxury car (Mercedes SL was #2 and BMW 7 Series #3).
2001 LS has been a great experience...absolutely no problems. I am going to test drive the GX for fun, but will likely buy the 04' LS. Just haven't seen anything that can touch it, and they even held the prices to 01' levels.
By the way LexusUS.com sounded like really good people to deal with.
Flint350 - What do you typically drive the ultra in. Sport or lux ride and do you notice any material differences between them. If you were doing it again today would you go the ultra route?
feverhart - install is nothing more than removing carpet in trunk (just roll it to the left side), take off the obvious cover on right side of trunk to expose the unit. Remove the two side screws and tilt the machine up, exposing the front insert slot. Have the car powered up, slide the left little slot cover open (just left of DVD slot)to expose the eject button. Push that and exchange the DVD's. Be sure car is powered (doesn't need to be running, just key in the accessory position) for the exchange - the update will begin automatically and display on then nav screen. Once complete, just tilt unit back down and resecure screws and cover. Your version should now show 3.1 versus our old 2000 1.0
There are some small changes to map icons and displays, but the voice sounds the same to me (thought someone said the voice had changed). I don't know the cutoff date of the database, but I was disappointed in some of the POI's I looked for that still weren't there - restaurants that have been in existence about a year or so. But others are there. Overall, seems ok, if still expensive. I also have a Garmin Street Pilot III that I use in my other vehicles - they are offering an update to that system and want $150 for one CD (not DVD)and it is for full country.
I'd tend to opt for the custom lux if they let you take the sport suspension with it.
Paul - how do you like the air suspension on the LS? By the way I side with Mrs. Chiu. I can't go black on black again. That's what I had in 1998 on my LS400 and I got tired of it. I would have also taken the brilliant silver in 2001 if I had taken an S-class so I like your ex-car.
I think the air suspension is better than the regular version on bad roads, but very hard to perceive on good roads.
I will finally take that 1st 400+ miles trip on my LS this Saturday to the Poconos. I vividly remember all my drives there in my S500.
I am not waiting this time for 90-100% "colors" and will see if 50-70% colors is better.
I also hope that the annoying door noise does not sneak out during the trip.
Now planning for the CD's to use is the hard part!
Do you have any favorite routes or restaurants there?
68 and sunny this Saturday there....
An even longer trip too!