Volvo S60

volvomax · December 2003

Yes, if its a warranty repair your dealer should provide you with a car. Assuming the repair will take more than an hour or two.

cmnott · December 2003

The seats do loosen up as they work in.

My dealer told me to not baby it either. He says the cars come ready from Volvo ready to rip. I beleived him and it is good that I have heard it quite a few times since.

The turning radius is a joke, but you will readjust your parking habits. Hell, two years later I still sometimes look like a tool ina parking lot!

I agree, the sound system is second to none.

Good luck enjoy you awesome car and you are nuts to want to put all season tires on that car!

bigbead · December 2003

I just started looking for a used luxury sport in the $20K range. Today I was at an auction in Southern California and had the opportunity to bid on a 2001 S60 2.4T with 51K miles,leather,moonroof,CD,power seats. The car was clean inside and out, drove well, and showed no visible signs of prior accidents or powertrain trouble. The car was sold as is for $16,200 to a higher bidder. (I regretfully stopped at $16,100)
Two questions: 1) Did I miss out on a very good deal? 2) Should I expect to drive this car from 51K to 100K miles with minimum chance of mechanical failure or expense? Any input on these questions would be appreciated. Since I liked this car so much, I will be looking for another one. Since I am not yet up to speed on Volvos, any advice that might aid my search would also help. Thanks. Brian

vroomman · December 2003

This car is a rocket ... finally had a chance to play hard on some open road ... FUN!!!

The handling is wonderful ... felt in control every second.

Very happy with my decision ... this is a great car.

steves1220 · December 2003

We have had our S60 for just over 1 year now, and I would like to say that it is a very disappointing car in terms of being a Volvo. There are things about it that I like, but overall I have never been so disappointed in a car as this one. Traction is awful  yes this has a lot to do with tires, but with stock equipment, it is really awful. Functionality  I would say dont waste your money on an S60  it in no way resembles its predecessor in this regard. It really offers nothing over the S40, especially if you look at 2004 model. Back seat is so tight, well, you wouldnt want to put ANYBODY there, save your mother-in-law. The aerodynamic look may be nice, but the back seat area really suffered as a result. After much research on safety (post-purchase), it seems safety aspects are overstated. Yes, there is standard equipment that is nice, but various organizations reviewing safety features shows the S60 is nothing special, and is actually near the bottom of the list in its class. Huge deviation from Volvo.

Sorry if Im ranting and raving, but I dont know what else to do. So disappointed!!! Thought I bought a Volvo  ended up with something far less in the S60.

Anybody else with similar feelings, or am I out of line?

qbrozen · December 2003

not sure what you were looking for. as far as the small back seat, didn't you look back there before you bought it?? And as far as the S60 over the S40, all I can say is that you must not have looked at the S40. Yeah, the S60 back seat is tight, but the S40 is smaller in every other way. Not to mention a non-Volvo 4-banger vs. the choices of some sweet 5-cylinders in the S60. And I won't even go into more subjective things like the feel of materials and seat comfort.

If it doesn't resemble its predecessor in terms of functionality, what exactly is in the S70s that you would like to have in your S60?? I have an S70 T5 now and I'd like to know what I'd be missing if I went into an S60.

Were you ONLY looking for a safe car?

xmf314 · December 2003

I have a 2001 S60 and I love it. Except for some burned out tailight bulbs it has been trouble-free. However, I do agree with you concerning the back seat. It is far too tight for the size of the vehicle. Volvo should have given more consideration to back seat passengers before putting the car into production.

steves1220 · December 2003

Regarding back seat - I made a big tactical error by not bringing my 2 year old with me to look at the car. It looked ok at the time, but man, the car seat is fun to get in. Also, with the sloping back end, it is a real bear to maneuver in and out, especially with a wiggling toddler. My wife actually has an S40 - even though dimensions are overall smaller, it is much easier to maneuver in and out of the back seat - the boxier stance allows for a bigger opening.

Was I only looking for a safe car? Well, not "only", but it sure was at the top of the list. Without what I perceived as top-notched safety reputation, the S60 would have been at about #4 or 5 on my list. Now that hindsight is in focus at 20/20 and I am finding out that safety is good, not great, well I'm not feeling good about my decision.

rocketman5 · December 2003

Providing you with a loaner car is entirely up to the dealer. I have been in numerous times for service on my '01 S60 that took more than 2 hours and have never been able to get a loaner. In fact, I had to rent a car for two days while my transmission was replaced UNDER WARRANTY. Neither my dealership nor Volvo North America saw fit to reimburse me for this expense. For those who have had problems with their Volvo, see my earlier posts in this discussion regarding my saga (1017, 1167, 1171). I hope you have better luck than I've had.

avolvofan · December 2003

I am still confused by your assertion that the S60 has only "bottom of the list in its class" safety features. I am not aware of any other manufacturer that features WIPS (Whiplash Injury Protection System). Volvo claimed a 25% reduction in whiplash injury for WHIPS when it was introduced with the 2000 model year S70. I believe that real-world experience is more in line with a 45% reduction in medical claims for whiplash injuries sustained.

Additionally, compare the size of the A-pillar between the S70 and the S60 - the S60 A-pillar almost obstructs the view to the side. There are numerous other safety features that are developed as a result of Volvo's program of researching accidents in which Volvo cars are involved. The results of the research is then incorporated into product design for future models. The S60s larger A-pillar is an example of evolutionary development.

subyaudidude · December 2003

How does a larger A-pillar, which "almost obstructs the view to the side," constitute an improvement in safety?

rollie · December 2003

Gents, you are referring to the 'B' pillar which is the side pillar. The 'A' pillar is in front and to the side of front seat occupants.

Regarding S60 saftety - relax there's nothing to worry about. If you look at the test results from ALL available sources (IIHS, NHTSA, and most significantly EuroNCAP which is more comprehensive) you will find the S60 does as well as anything in its class except possibly the BMW 3 series (e46) and Saab 9-3 and even then it's pretty close.

The safety systems found on the S60 are as effective as assumed. WHIPs for example holds the benchmark standard in IIHS rear-impact injury scores (since 1999 testing), side impact curtains found on P2 Volvos led to a P2 being the first vehicle to obtain 5-star all-around test scores in NHTSA testing(S80 was first), etc. etc.

Any car can be designed to outperform a specific Volvo in a specific laboratory test. It's real world performance that is most telling and in the real world Volvo, Saab, and now BMW seem to still be the best in safety (with Mercedes on the return after several embarrasing issues over the past 10 years.)

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

subyaudidude · December 2003

which I do find a bit large ... wide, really. It does somewhat obstruct my view to the front right.

avolvofan · December 2003

The A-pillar is one of the primary structural points that protect in the event of a roll-over. The A- B- and C-pillars combined with the roof form a roll cage. As a general rule, the larger the pillar, the stronger it is. Adding boron steel makes for an even stronger structural member. Hope this helps.

subyaudidude · December 2003

At what point, though, is the benefit of having a large, strong A-pillar outweighed by the potential danger of the driver's view being obstructed by it? That was my only concern. Right now, it's not so bad that I can't see and deal with it, so I'm not particularly complaining. However, it does seem to be a bit wider on my S60 than on other cars I've owned (VW Passat, Audi A4).

avolvofan · December 2003

Everything about cars is a balancing act - engine output (hp and torque) versus the ability of the transmission to handle the output is one that comes to mind.

Volvo is mindful about the downside of larger A-pillars (blocked vision). The Safety Concept Car that Volvo introduced has see-through A-pillars. Additionally, by using boron steel, it was possible to get the strength of a larger A-pillar without the bulk (size and weight).

tampa04 · December 2003

I have learnt a lot from this discussion. I am going to buy a S60 2.5T FWD with Premium package and silver metallic paint. The quoted price is 27,700 + TTL. Is it a good price?
Are there any issues or problems with 2004 S60 2.5T FWD arisen in the discussion?

Thanks,

qbrozen · December 2003

the price doesn't sound too out of line. You should check carsdirect for your area, though. A 2004 S60 2.5T with premium package comes up at $27,111 for my zip code. To have the convenience of getting it through my local dealer, i allow a bit of leeway, so, like I said, your price doesn't seem too far out of line.

phils60 · December 2003

Works great! It holds all the wing bones I can toss over my shoulder while speeding down the highway.

If you're having back pains while maneuvering your munchkins in and out of their safety seats... you might consider an SUV or mini van.

chadds · December 2003

I bought an extra set of wheels the dark graphite 18"s and mounted Vredesteins. I've almost forgotten how well the summer tires handle. Great car would not slip in ice and snow. First new car I've had without flaws. word is out as I get respectful nods everywhere even from BMW owners. Non Volvo owners find it very attractive.

bsalamon · December 2003

Would someone mind commenting on their experience with the S60R manual transmission. I am considering this car with the manual and was hoping it would be better than my 2001 330i manual.

yk40 · December 2003

I am interested in leasing S60 AWD with premium and sports package. I was told by a dealer ( who did not have the car with sports package) that If go with the sports package I needed to change the rims/tires ( costs about $1000)in the winter. Is this true?

Also he told me that DSTC would be redundant and not needed with AWD. Any commnets?

yk

avolvofan · December 2003

Perhaps the dealer was trying to shift you into the car that he has in stock. If you use all season tires (such as Michelin Pilot Sport A/S), you will probably be able to avoid changing tires in the winter.

Separately, DSTC is NOT redundant with AWD. Let me guess, the AWD car that is in stock at the dealer did not have DSTC? DSTC enhances AWD traction in some situations; but in no way is it redundant.

xc70vault · December 2003

It seems near impossible to find the ground clearance of the 2004 S60 AWD documented anywhere. Does anyone know what the official number is for ground clearance for this vehicle ?

dmarcus48 · December 2003

The sports package adds 17" wheels, shouldn't be a problem with snow. The DSTC is a traction control with skid control, so that if the car starts to slide to the left or right the computer will correct it. Good thing to have.

Dave

volvomax · December 2003

Will come w/ Pirelli P6's.
Don't know if they would be sufficent in heavy snow.
Ground clearance is 6.5 inches if memory serves.
DSTC is useful if your going to travel at high speeds in bad weather. Especially in cornering situations.

benjamin753 · January 2004

I got what I think is a very deal on a 2004 Volvo S60 AWD with Premium and Touring packages, silver metallic paint with charcoal leather. (I would have gotten the sport package but my wife didn't like the feel of the seats.)

Here are the vitals:

MSRP: $35,710.00
Total Lease Cost: $16,965.75
Monthly Payment: $443.50
Base Cap: $30,901.00
Residual: $19,729.25
Money Factor: 0.0019
Acq. Fee: $595.00
License: $154.75
Disp. Fee: $250.00

I had originally agreed upon a slightly more expensive lease through Volvo only to be blindsided by a $395 dispensation fee. After a LONG time in the office of the finance guy, the folks at the dealership reran the numbers with a lease from Wells Fargo, resulting in the numbers above.

Good luck all!

Benjamin

ddelise · January 2004

Hello -

A couple of figures were missing from the numbers you provided - number of months in the lease - does the payment include tax (if so, what is payment pre tax) - mileage per year?

Assuming a 39 month lease, I calculated your payments should be around $385+ tax.

For comparison purpose, I have a 2001 S60 2.4T. It had an MSRP of about $34.5. I did a 48 month, 15K miles/yr lease for $385+tax/month. Only out of pockets were aquisition fee (i.e. no cap cost reduction).

Damon

benjamin753 · January 2004

Here's the additional info:

-36 months, 12k miles per year
-no cap cost reduction
-paid acq. fee, first payment, and $475 security deposit at signing, less than $1200
-(Sales tax is included in all my calculations and runs 9.1% in WA.)

Benjamin

ramib1 · January 2004

I have been driving a manual R since September, and I just love the car. The 6 speed gear is terrific, and the car has plenty of power, and is a true joy. I don't know what your other criteria are, but if you consider the R don't go for the auto - owners have been complaining about substantial performance hit vs. the manual.

mkrsw1 · January 2004

i saw this in over in the v70 forum, but it
recently happened to me in my new 04 s60awd.
i routinely reset the trip odometer every morning.
the other morning i was 25 or so miles out and
i stopped to refuel. when i restarted the car,
the odometer reset to 0.0. i don't think this
is supposed to happen. comments?

jam1000 · January 2004

Mine ('04 S60 2.5T, not AWD) has spontaneously reset twice, both times after about 600 miles. Based on anecdotal reports on a competing bulleting board (don't know if I can mention its name), this is a common issue, and the cause appears to be unknown. I don't know if there is a fix. I intend to ask about it at my first scheduled maintenance, but that is not for a while.

dbugbee · January 2004

I have an S60R and have also noticed the trip odometer reset problem. The service dept at my local Volvo dealership told me that this is a known problem and Volvo is currently working on a fix. They couldn't tell me exactly when the fix would be available.

ddelise · January 2004

Thanks for the updated figures. Based on what you provided me - everything checks out Ok. I calculated your monthly depreciation to be about $310, your monthly interest/use cost to be about $96, for a total of $406. Add your taxes (very high in WA!), and your payment is just right.

Like I mentioned, I pay about $420 or so month. If I had 12K miles/yr. (like you), I would be about $400 or so a month (with tax). So, for about 440 or so more/month, you are driving a S60R - not bad!!!!

Congrats.

Now, how do you like the car???

schuhc · January 2004

Gentlemen:

If you look on the XC90 forum you'll see complaints about this as well. I would imagine it's prevelant on the 2003-2004 V70's as well. I understand from my dealer that there is a software fix due in a month or so.

rollie · January 2004

The software download for the trip odometer fix has been out for some time now and at least a couple of users online have it and have verified it works (the problem was that the trip odo would reset the first time the car was restarted after 621 miles - the equivalent of 1,000 kilometers --> it was a simple metric conversion for U.S. that a subroutine wasn't doing for whatever reason.)

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

rj37 · January 2004

I just got my S60 AWD with the sports package and DSTC 2 months ago. It came equipped with Pirelli P6's on 17 wheels. The Pirellis are rated as M&S and so far they has been very good in the snow and slush. We have had quite a bit of snow this year so I have had a good chance to try them out. Since they provide very good snow traction I do not have any plans to get winter tires. Initially I was concerned that the wider tires would be a problem in the snow but they have been very good. If you will be driving in snow I would definitely recommend the DSTC. I have felt in kick in a few times and I think it is a very good option. The main reason I got the Sports Package was for the speed sensitive steering, which I like better than the standard steering.

xc70vault · January 2004

Only 400 miles on 2004 S60 AWD and already leaking oil. Diagnosis is loose oil pan. Kind of wonder now what else is loose...

dgrusso67 · January 2004

I am interested in buying (or leasing if a good deal is to be had) a new Volvo S60 R 6spd Silver Metallic with premium, climate and 18' wheels.

My local dealer offered 1K off sticker but I hope to do better. I have seen people post 1K over invoice, 800 over invoice and 2.2K below sticker.

If anyone has other thoughts, love to hear them.
Thanks. Great board. This will be my first Volvo. Agree with posts about blowing away new Acura TL and BMW 325. Test drove em all.

jthorsen · January 2004

MSRP: $37,250 + $685 destination

Invoice: $35,050 + $685 destination

OSD Price: $34,279 + $0 destination and includes 2 round trip tickets to Sweden, one night hotel paid, and all insurance (so you can drive in Europe) + shipment back to U.S + tour of Volvo factory + ability to order the exact options you want...

Save money, take a great trip plus I guarantee you'll never want to buy a car any other way! The only downside is you have to order 2-3 months in advance and it will take about a month for your car to be delivered to your dealer after you drop it off in Europe at the end of your vacation.

See the Volvo website (look for the Overseas Delivery section), www.flyvolvo.com, or the OSD forum on volvoxc.com for details and other people's experiences with OSD. I believe the number of S60 Rs available through OSD is limited. You do have to travel to Europe to take advantage of this offer, but some people who are simply trying to save as much money as possible have only stayed the one free night and flown back the next day.

dgrusso67 · January 2004

Thanks JT for the info. You've got me curious about Sweden.

yk40 · January 2004

Have a look at CarsDirect. It seems that you can get this car about $1400 under invoice in NY area. Also you can call NJ/NY Volvo dealers.

tabeast · January 2004

Fascinating discussions (thanks to all for your contributions, regardless of your position on the issues). I own an 03 accord (the coupe with the 6 speed) and an 02 S60. The 03 Accord is for sale while I await arrival of my 04 S60. If I knew I was going to be in a crash and got to pick the option of which car to be driving, I would fight you tooth and nail for the front seat of the Volvo, without hesitation. That's just my opinion, I like to think it is informed in the way that only an owner can know.

I think it is interesting to discuss all this crash test data. If I am properly informed, the crash tests have pre-defined impact points and impact loads. So if I want to pass a crash test, I better be sure I know how the car responds when impacted at those points and at that load. Gee, I wonder what happens if it get hits off center from those points. Well, I hope that cell phone user is paying enough attention to hit me in the right spot.

dbugbee · January 2004

On a nice, flat road, my S60R will drive straight as an arrow. But on a less-than-perfect road, I notice that it will sometimes dart to the left or right. Is this normal? Is it just the nature of the Pirellis, following the imperfections of the road? Or is it a possible problem with my AWD system. Has anyone else noticed this behavior?

volvomax · January 2004

Probably just the tires following road imperfections and grooves.
The big tread blocks are sometimes easy to deflect.
My Corvette used to do it all the time.
Its a common complaint of performance cars.

deployed · January 2004

I was told by my dealer that you don't need to "break in" the car when it is delivered. Is this true? I was under the impression that for all new cars you wanted to treat them extra careful (i.e not take them over 4,000 RPM's until the first oil change) Is this true, that for new cars like the S60 R there is no more required "break in"? and you can drive like a bat outta hell off the lot?

pat · January 2004

That's probably not a real good idea. What does your manual say?

Usually you need to vary the speed (don't use the cruise control for example) and be careful to not slam on the brakes for a short while.

Do check the manual, though.

justin · January 2004

a friend of mine is looking at used cars. she has two small children, newly single mom, needs something SAFE, and that will start everyday. she has come across a demo 2003 base model S60.

are these reliable? i know the new S40 is based on Ford/global platforms. is the S60 a pure and true Volvo? or was the S80 the last of the real Volvo's?

would you all recommend a base model S60 automatic to a single mom with toddlers? she wants a car that is safe, and one that doesn't look bad either. she is looking at dark green or navy, both are "demo" cars. is the 5 cylinder engine decent? no tranny issues? are the old Volvo exhaust and electrical issues worked out?

THANKS!

qbrozen · January 2004

the s60 is a true volvo. the only "untrue" volvo is the current S40 that is on its way out.

i don't own one, so i can't help you with the other issues.

volvomax · January 2004

The S60 is based on the S80, although it is a much improved version.
The S60 would be perfect for someone that wants safe economical transportation

Volvo S60

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