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The resolution consists of (1) a patronizing letter from Hyundai, (2) a very reasonable agreement with the service department manager of how this car will be fixed.
The reality is this car is quite disappointing: I've really grown quite disgusted with how it's nickel-and-diming me to death. I really, truly shoulda bought a pair of Civics or Corollas instead. Add me to the list of disgusted owners.
Sorry I don't have better news to share - I wish I did, given I was at least as hopeful as most new owners four years ago.
Oh well - live and learn, eh?
Good luck to the rest of the new owners. I am, frankly, not going to repeat the experience (which I hope to end sometime in either 2004 or 2005).
Oh - and in the interest of being fair . . . my dealer truly does an *EXCELLENT* job at customer care. It was simply a matter of speaking up and saying, "Hey! This ain't right!"
You might wish to spend a few hours reviewing the posts over the last 9 months for the Accord (in particular), Camry, 6 and Altima. They are fairing worse than the Sonata (plus you have to drain the bank account to get those hideous problems).
I'll be in the market next summer, and after a list of approx. 10 candidates (including those listed above), it's come down to '04 Sonata LX vs. '04 Malibu (or Maxx) LT.
Yes, the Sonata blows away the good 'ol Honda (well, used to be good, no more) in terms of value for the dollar and reliability, among other things.
I've got almost 50K in 3 1/2 years in my loaded '00 Sonata GLS V6 w/Pkg 13. Not a single significant problem. Just a burned out headlight and the rotor warping. One small recall. I've been thoroughly pleased. So much so that I paid her off a year early. Now own her outright and plan to keep her for the long haul.
It's not just the current circumstance that annoys me.
It's that, like clockwork, something happens between 10 - 15K miles.
THAT annoys me tremendously.
My second car, a 1995 Suzuki-built Geo Metro I bought a few years after college graduation, was (in absolute honesty) more reliable.
THAT also annoys me tremendously!
I guess we just have different sets of expectations.
As for my "diagnosis", I was trying to get you to fully describe your problem with the wheel well so maybe I could better help you (yes, that's what I'm trying to do; I'm quite knowledgeable about cars) or better understand what your actual complaint is, which you have still failed to do. You keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about. It seems you don't because you can't even describe what's wrong. Until you do, I have to assume you are talking about a stupid plastic wheel well liner that is falling apart, which is NOT a big deal. I was just trying to let you know that IF that's the problem, then the dealer was correct in having you pay to replace it. In other words, I was trying to calm your fears that the dealer was trying to stick it to you.
I am not trying to make light of your problems or frustrate you further. You came to this forum venting and I would assume looking for help. No one can help you understand what's wrong unless you fully describe the problem. If you honestly don't know how to describe the problem, than don't get mad at someone else for trying to diagnose the problem if you aren't willing to accept it as a possibility.
I bought it brand new in June of 2002 and have put about 32K miles on it since then. No major complaints, but one annoyance I was wondering if anyone had any insight on.
I received a recall this past Spring that had to do with an O2 sensor and the need for it to be re wired. I had this work done, and about 3 months later (This past June), my Check Engine light came on. It was quickly fixed by the dealer and the service tech mentioned something about the original re wiring job being incorrect.
About 2 weeks ago, the check engine came on again. As a side note, this happened 1 day after having the car at the dealer for its 30,000 mile service (Had it done at about 29,500, if that info helps). Upon taking it to the dealer, I had expressed my concern about this happening multiple times. He mentioned the fact that the car has 4 O2 sensors and I'm curious if they're malfuntioning one by one, or if there's something going on with the O2s that I'm not aware of?
Anyone else had this experience? If so, was it resolved?
As to the handling properties of the current Soanatas, I'd have to say they don't quite measure up to the Accord, but they're probably very close to the Camry's. Both the Camry and the Sonata emphasize ride comfort in my opinion. The Accords are closer (but NOT a match) to the handling characteristics of a 3-series BMW at the slight expense of comfort. (Accords are by no means harsh though.) I have no experience with the Altima. My Sonata is very rattle-free, but the body structure is not quite as rigid as my former '96 Accord's. Consequently, there is the odd dash creak occasionally when going over potholes and some rail crossings, but it's never an ongoing cacophany. My car is the base model and is definitely quieter than my old Accord. Someone appears to have paid attention to sound management in these cars. The standard issue Michelin tires are a bit on the noisy side on coarse pavement, though.* Give the car smooth blacktop and it approaches tomb-quiet.
*About 8 or 10 miles south of Las Vegas there's a five-mile stretch of concrete pavement on I-15. While that stretch is VERY smooth, these standard issue Michelins sound like a wounded banshee singing grand opera.
The Malibu forums are bustling, most always (and no, not always with problems). At least when I'm bored (like tonite w/o the WS), I can rile up one or two....
The 2 are real competitors.
General Motors has a tendency to utilize GM Europe platforms, but when used for the U.S. market, they end up with cheaper switchgear, softer handling characteristics and incredibly boring styling. The Malibu is garnering praise for its handling and front seats, and big yawns for the appearance of this car, including interior plastics that will never set standards, although they are very good for the company. And in spite of well-engineered platforms, GM and other domestics still experience big ups and big downs in their quality control (Ford Focus is a good example -- well engineered, but troublesome).
Sonata offers exceptional value, has a proven reliability record (above the average of all cars, according to CR readers who own Sonatas), and not-so-boring, not-so-exciting styling (it looks nice). The interior is laid out well, the seams are tight and the materials are good. And of great importance to me, they clearly understood their reputation for poor products many years ago and took action. We have seen the results of their efforts and continue to do so; they are no longer a brand to pity or ridicule.
I would be delighted to see a domestic product that impresses on all levels, but so far GM in particular still has catching up to do. Asian manufacturers work hardest to impress buyers and keep them.
Only Malibu that is mildly interesting is the future Maxx variant. Will it sell?
Personally, while you're being civil, I think the current Sonata almost hits the "beautiful" mark. Scared to see what the next gen does (it might fall back a notch, hope not).
The new Malibu is in the "love it or hate it category". The problem is the Maxx. Just watch Hyundai and the Japanese add one to their portfolio if it's a hit. If not, hey, to me it's better than an obnoxious SUV. And (no I'm not a "greenie"), SUVs are an obnoxious fad.
One set of O2 sensors were recalled and repaired about a year or two ago: this is the second recall (I am assuming for the second set of sensors).
I finally get what's going on: *I* am the Hyundai beta-test! Oy Gevalt . . . .
Problems:
1. Dead battery at 52K. Thought it was something else & it cost me by going to the dealership!!!
They put in another lousy 2 yr Hyundai battery
2. Bent attenna. Won't go down all the way.
They said it's not covered under warranty.
Don't wanna shell out $110 so I'll live w/ it.
3. Warped rotors. Went do Midas for the brakes.
Other than these three issues, no other problems.
I just had a 2nd child & I gave up on making it look good. I just wanna make sure it starts when I put my key in...
Now the questions. What major items should be replaced at 60K? I'd like to know b4 I walk in so I won't be gouged. I don't like the dealership, Hyundai of Paramus (NJ) on Rt 4, but there isn't anything else nearby. If anyone knows of a good Northern Jersey Hyundai dealership, pls let me know. I don't believe there's any.
>>>> Item <<<<.......>>> Cost <<<
1. Timing Belt ......... ???
2. Spark plugs ......... ???
3. Belts ............... ???
4. Transmission oil .... ???
5. Anything else
Also, for something like changing Transmission oil, would I be better served if I went to a specialty shop like Aamco? Thx in advance.
Change oil
Inspect steering gear rack, linkage and boots
Inspect driveshaft and books
Adjust front, rear and hand brakes
Inspect brake lines and hoses for leakage
Inspect and retorque suspension mounts
Four wheel alignment
Inspect power steering pump, belt and hoses
Inspect and adjust engine drive belt
Rotate tires
Inspect exhaust system
Flush transmission fluid, replace filter
Replace brake fluid
Replace air cleaner element
Replace platinum spark plugs
Replace engine coolant
Inspect fuel lines and hoses
Replace timing belt
Inspect vacuum lines and crankcase ventilation hoses
Replace PCV valve
The whole thing cost me close to $1,000. I also had them replace the engine drive belt since they wouldn't charge me labor for doing that. All the inspections paid off, as they found a few things to replace under warranty. The fuel pressure regulator, ignition wire set, timing belt auto tensioner and radiator cap were all replaced under warranty.
I'm hoping to trade my 98 Tib to Sonata but I read few msgs saying that there will be a new sonata for 05 or 06.
Well if it comes out in 06 I rather trade before snow falls. Can anyone confirm that..
Well, I'm thinking to get GLS (top line in CAN), but I'm guite disappointed that there is no Side air bag.
Dealer wants $31760(Canadian), is it good deal or should i shop around more..
Thanks.
Oh, well...
Q abt spark plugs. I thought these were platinum tipped. Shouldn't they last till 100K?
Also, same thing w/ transmission too? Shouldn't it be serviced at 100K as well?
I notice one thing that Hyundai requires to be replaced at 60,000 miles, doesn't appear to have been by your dealer. I'm talking about the camshaft timing belt. If it breaks, the pistons come-'a-knockin' on any open valves and its suddenly major damage time. Check your invoice carefully to see if that's been done. A poster on another Hyundai board had his tank at 62,000 miles. Since he had no record of having that belt replaced, his dealer and Hyundai told him to go pound sand.
Change oil
Inspect steering gear rack, linkage and boots
Inspect driveshaft and books [boots?]
Adjust front, rear and hand brakes
Inspect brake lines and hoses for leakage
Inspect and retorque suspension mounts
Four wheel alignment
Inspect power steering pump, belt and hoses
Inspect and adjust engine drive belt
Rotate tires
Inspect exhaust system
Flush transmission fluid, replace filter
Replace brake fluid
Replace air cleaner element
Replace platinum spark plugs
Replace engine coolant
Inspect fuel lines and hoses
Replace timing belt
Inspect vacuum lines and crankcase ventilation hoses
Replace PCV valve
LXs in the States can be had for under 20,000 if that's any guide. Using a rough guestimate of $1.65 (CN) to the U.S. dollar, the price you were quoted seems a bit high, but I'm not very well versed in Canadian pricing. Are you sure about the lack of a side airbag? U.S. models have a front seat-back mounted shoulder and head side air bag. But, there is no side curtain airbag. The seat mounted bag will have an oval embossing or permanent sticker indicating "Air Bag" on the door side of the seat back.
Finally, as to your service "special," you may want to check the fine print. My dealership advertises low prices too, but they don't include the parts or shop supplies in the prices, so that $500 60,000 mile service becomes much more expensive once they add in all the fluids, the belts, etc.
Most importantly, I don't feel like I got screwed. My car got quite the overhaul over the course of the day and everything got checked from top to bottom. I now feel confident that my car is in tip-top shape, which is worth a few bucks in my mind. You may not feel that way, but to each their own.
CAN $31760 (Inc tax, etc), but I wouldn't mine driving Tib for 1 more year and see 05 Sonata.
I actually think that current Sonata looks pretty good but can't wait to see the 05 sonata.
Another Q is about maintenance. In the note #2459 you sounded like there is no filter in a tranny. Is it true? If it's so why all dealerships put it as an item for replacement. Is it scam? At this point none of Sonata owners can count on any Hyundai dealership service. Yes you can go to another shop but then you can loose your warranty. Sounds like catch 22. So all those "there is NO"s in that note are true? How we can beat the dealership service.
I am leasing the Sonata 02, V6 since Dec 2001 and so far no problem except the fuel gauge sensor that has been replaced under the warranty. I am thinking of keeping this car, but worried about after 100K. Now I have 34K on odometer.
Thank you in advance.
My current dealer is Rt 4 Hyundai (and Dodge) in Paramus, NJ.
My car's in for 60K service and it looks like I'll be down ~$850 (ie $1000 less 20% on parts of it).
Let me explain:
I had a 20% discount coupon for the services listed in their booklet. When I mentioned this to the rep, he said he'll need to create 2 invoices - one for the "regular" 60K services (to which they'll apply 20% discount) and the other for the timing-belt and water pump b/c these two items are not a part of their "regular" 60K service.
F*ing amazing!!! Hyundai, the manufacturer, is recommending the replacement, but, no, Rt 4 Hyundai says it's NOT on their booklet for 60K service. This is a Hyundai DEALER speaking.
I'm sure I can straighten it out by talking to the manager, but why do I need this aggravation from a DEALERSHIP!!!
Another Issue - Battery:
Mine crapped out a couple of months ago, which is within 36 months of purchase. I just noticed from the Maintenance Log that Hyundai'll cover 25% of the cost plus labor. But what did my Hyundai DEALERSHIP do??? They charged me for every thing - all $150 of it. Shouldn't they be the ones protecting me? Instead, I'll need to haggle it out to get my $$ back. Good thing I still have the invoice.
Like the car, but not the dealership...
When they told me $950 when I brought my car in, I thought they meant for their "normal" 60K service AND for timing belt & water pump. I thought this b/c of what drimple paid for his 60K service w/ timing belt replacement.
1. Does water pump "usually" get replaced when doing the timing belt? They looked at me like I was stupid when I asked the question. They were like - yeah, of course!
2. Does it cost this much on Sonatas to get these two parts replaced? They said the tech spent 5.5 hours on this.
Oh, on the 60K service, they charged me $600 minus the 20% for the coupon I had. Unbelievable...
You need to do some serious talking with the shop manager because they are obviously trying to screw an unsuspecting customer out of quite a bit of money. I'm hoping they forgot to give you an estimate or you signed something saying to contact you if it exceeds a certain amount. If so, they don't have a choice but to work up a much lower # or face legal action.
In your letter hit them where it hurts them: their bottom line. Speak about your dissapointment, these hefty fees will no doubt hurt Hyundai's sales, you can not afford such prices, etc, etc, etc.
I speak from experience having to resort to Ford when the damn Lincoln-Mercury service manager brutalized me. Although my issue was with a different maker, we can draw some comparisons here.
I wish you good luck and hope my post helps you.
I've had my Sonata for a couple of weeks, and I have a question for you all. Are there heater ducts for the rear seats? And if there are, where are they?? I've looked everywhere, and can't find them. Normally they are on the floor, or in the center console facing the rear seats, but I've looked and they aren't in those places. Maybe the Sonata just doesn't have them....
I know here on the Edmund's site, it says that the Sonata has heated seats, and I know that isn't true, so maybe the same is for the rear seat heater ducts. Thanks for any information.
So, the next Sonata is NOT on sale over there. I've heard, as somewhat confirmed by the news wires today, that the next Sonata will be produced in the US, and introduced in March '05 (as an '06, NOT an '05). I'll be kind and link today's news in a subsequent post shortly. I need to locate it again.
http://www.hyundai-motor.com/cybermall/showroom/index_5.html
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6600&sid=17- 3&n=156
Also, will the V6 require premium gas? How does the Kia Optima compare to the Sonata?
Thanks in advance!