Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

parump · November 2001

I have also experienced abrupt shifts in the transmission when:

1. Shifting from park to reverse when the engine is at the fast idle setting (this may also happen when shifting into the forward gears too - I haven't tried this yet.)

2. When slowing less than 30 mph, the transmission will sometimes shift somewhat abruptly into a lower gear.

I am only commenting about this because the transmission at all other times shifts very, very smoothly.

I asked the Toyota technician to review the shifting problem several months ago and was told that the updated software had been installed and that the transmission was functioning normally.

Our car features the V6 engine with the traction control option.

I suspect that Toyota is aware of this "problem" and will correct this in future production models. I don't know if the problem can be easily corrected in the cars already produced. If a software update could remedy this problem, then the fix would be relatively easy and result in many satisfied customers. However, if a re - engineering of the mechanical components is necessary, then a fix for the current owners is unlikely.

I will be interested to see if Consumer Reports documents the abrupt shifting in this vehicle. I believe that Toyota uses Consumer Reports as an independent, valued reviewer of their cars and attempts to correct any identified deficiencies. Maybe they monitor this board too. If yes, that would be great.

Overall, the car is excellent. However, as the quality of manufacture improves, and the ride characteristics are further refined, the short comings become more noticeable.

cliffy1 · November 2001

The 2003 Corolla will start production in December for late January or February release. Your post seems to equate quality with features so I don't know how to answer the "quality" question you pose.

canadiancl · November 2001

Where were your Camrys built? Japan or USA. I'm wondering if that makes a difference since the shifting problem so far doesn't appear to be a widespread problem.

parump · November 2001

Our car was manufactured in Kentucky, USA.

c0ke · November 2001

My '02 LE V6 was US made (surely the KY plant).

It doesn't have the traction control ... and I don't notice any abrupt downshifts. But I do wonder if what I'm noticing has to do with the "intelligent" mode having a "no-so-intelligent" phase to go through during warm-up.

I'm also trying to focus on a slight "shuddering", almost feels like an engine miss, that is perceptible at low speeds during warm-up. Could almost be mistaken for the "set" type vibration caused by tires(Bridgestone here) until they warm-up. After a few miles of warmup I don't seem to notice the shuddering anymore. The harshness in the shifting goes away even sooner after getting under way.

Somehow I'm also wondering if the harshness problem would go away if the initial idle was lower. I wouldn't idle a car from a cold start (esp. a V6) at that many rpm's ordinarily. If I let the warm-up go three or so minutes then the harshness doesn't seem to be there at all. The idle speed has dropped even further back by then.

Perhaps I need to ask the service departement about it.

coolguyky7 · November 2001

People complained that the 4th Gen Camry had cheaper materials than the 3rd Gen (92-96). The new Camry is said to be a step closer to have the quality reputation of the 3rd Gen Camry. I want to know if the 97-02 Corolla was lower in quality than its previous model (93-97). Is the new Corolla supposed to be a step forward?

cliffy1 · November 2001

Sorry, but I don't have much advance information on the Corolla, other than the arrival time. Again, I think you are confusing quality with features. I know the 97 to 2001 Camry didn't have as many features (seat adjustments, stereo etc) as the new generation, but I don't think there were any problems with the older ones due to a lack of quality.

alpha01 · November 2001

I think the "quality" that coolguy is talking about is what I could call "tactile quality" as opposed to vehicle quality, such as number of initial sample defects and long term dependability. To this end, I would agree that the 97-01 Camrys were decontented and did not offer the caliber of tactile quality afforded by the 92-96 generation. However, I do not feel that either series was better or worse in terms of VEHICLE quality, if anything, since the 97-01 Camry was a redesign ON the 92-96 platform, it should, theoretically have been more reliable given the longer amount of time Toyota had to perfect any chassis/structure/powertrain quality insuffiecies.

Concerning another post, while I personally don't feel the 98-02 Corolla was a significant improvement on the 93-97 edition, I think the two are similar in tactile quality, and there wasnt any (to my knowledge) decontenting evident as there was when the 4th gen Camry was redesigned.

Hope that all made sense.
~alpha

mackabee · November 2001

As Cliffy mentioned, the 03 Corolla will be launched in February along with the new Matrix. You can check out the pictures of the Japanese Corolla at www.toyota.co.jp it is very similar to the one we'll be getting in the U.S. very nice car.

: )

Mackabee

hfriedman · November 2001

I'm a first time poster and hope a number of you will tell me your thoughts on leather vs. cloth seats. I currently own a 1987 Camry and have never had leather. I'm planning to buy a 2002 Camry XLE 4 (probably silver with stone interior). I think cloth feels better but leather looks better. I'm torn. Please kindly tell me what you think!

canadiancl · November 2001

Leather definitely LOOKS nicer, although Toyota has fairly plush-looking cloth for the Camry. One thing I've noticed on the leather seat of an SE that was on display in a dealer's showroom was that the leather on the driver seat near the window side was already noticeably wrinkled from people getting in and out during viewing. I'm not sure if the XLE has the same leather but it made me wonder what the leather would look like after a couple of years of use, especially if you have kids.

suzzann · November 2001

I have a friend who is about to buy a Camry. Any suggestions as to how much over invoice she should bid? She's just going for the LE model with basic equipment, the power seats, keyless entry and floor mats. She lives in New Jersey.

canadiancl · November 2001

Does anyone know whether the traaction control on the new Camry applies brakes, or cut engine power, to limit wheelspin?

jf01 · November 2001

Does anybody know if the DVD navigation system on the 2002 Camry can play movie DVDs? I think I remember that the Landcruiser navigation could, but I might be wrong on that.

canadiancl · November 2001

Wouldn't there be a law against that? If talking on the phone while driving is dangerous, can you imagine watching a movie?

ahossa · November 2001

Suzzan: Over the thanksgiving week-end Camry Le were Going for $20,000.(They did not have Abs).Figure to add about $250 to $300 to include Abs.That's at Millenium Toyota. I know at Newark Toyotaworld in Delaware They were going for $19,992 with Abs but they have a processing fee for $94.00. This was the week before Thanksgiving.Check a guy out name Joe hicks. Pretty patient salesman.How I know this I was Shopping around for a SE4cyl

suzzann · November 2001

I don't know if we'll call them or use the internet to get to them. Maybe we can do a little better but Newark's prices sound reasonable.

armtdm · November 2001

Really really really cold the first time you sit on them on those winter mornings, a seat heater that can be started from inside the home would be great. Opposite true in summer, realy really really hot.

Personally, look great but I prefer cloth.

sebring95 · November 2001

I agree with you about the Camry V6. When I bought my first back in 92, that was probably the most sophisticated V6 in any sedan except maybe some german cars. Revolutionary IMHO. Compare that engine to any V6 from GM, Chrysler, or Ford (well, the SHO engine was pretty hot, but not that refined for sure) and the Camry was very powerful, refined, and economical. Things have changed alot over the years, but the Camry 3.0L hasn't. Still a very nice engine, but time for some evolution. The HP is actually pretty good in real life, but I'd like to see the torque improved. And that's hard to do without going to larger displacement.

cliffy1 · November 2001

The TRACS both applies the brakes and reduces engine RPMs.

canadiancl · November 2001

BTW, my experience with leather is yes, in the summer if the car has been sitting in the sun, the seats could get rather hot, especially if you're wearing shorts. But in the winter, unless you sit on them naked, I've never found leather seats to be uncomfortably cold.

canadiancl · November 2001

Camrys with the engine immobilizer comes with a LED light on the dash next to the HVAC controls. If you install the Toyota VIP security system, they wouldn't install a second LED light, would they? Would they simply utilize the same LED for the alarm, so that the light would only flash if the alarm is armed? Also, does the VIP have features that the customer, at the time of installation, can specify to have activated. ie. passive arming, different "beeps", etc.

Thank you sir.

cliffy1 · November 2001

I wish I could give you definitive answers to those. Since I moved into the finance office, I started to loose track of things like that. I would doubt another light would be installed, and I am nearly positive there are a couple of mode selection on the VIP system. I think you can select to have the doors lock upon placing the thing in gear.

alpha01 · November 2001

So I read the new issue of Car and Driver today.... and the Camry nor the Altima made the Ten Best 2002 list, while the coveted Accord did.
I sucked it up and dealt with Car and Driver's choosing the LX V6 Accord over the Camry SE V6 and Altima SE V6 in their December comparo- After all, I tried to reason with myself, it was a family sedan comparo, and value is paramount to many families, so it made sense that the Accord LX eeked out a victory by the narrowest of margins. BUT that was a comparison of V6 models at a specific price point, and Ten Best covers the whole range of the model line.
I can't see how the 20k Altima 2.5S w/ auto, or the Camry LE would be chosen AFTER the older, smaller, blandly styled, lower power Accord. For all intensive purposes, the 4cylinders are more representative of these models, since they sell in such higher quantities... I want a comparo FROM ANY MAGAZINE on the bread and butter models. Enough about the V6... not all of us can afford those!!! Not to belabour the point, but I'd much rather have a 4cly Altima or Camry over the Accord. (and Car and Driver cited a 10% savings on the Accord versus its main competitors... UM, not for the 4cylinder models.)
~alpha

maxamillion1 · November 2001

That's the comparison I want to see, bump the V6 models, test the ones that represent the most midsize cars, the I4 models. I would like to see the Camry SEI4, Altima 2.5S or 2.5SL, Accord EX or EXL, Mitsubishi Galant, VW Passat GLS 1.8t and Dodge Startus SE tested in a comparo to see who would win, personally I vote the Passat, it usually always beat everybody else in a comparo.

camryv6 · November 2001

I notice alot of the 1997-2001 camry's have that bell sound comming from the wheels. (sounds like the bells that they to tie to ballons. Does any one no why it has that bell sound?

mackabee · November 2001

sounds telling you is time to trade it in for a new 2002 Camry.

; )

Mack

canc · November 2001

for power windows? That sounds steep!

wenyue · November 2001

Someone please help me with the price break down. Mackabee or Cliffy might know what this is all about.

I ordered a Camry LE automatic with ABS, from a dealer a while back. Now, the car has been built, is on it's way to the dealership. The dealer agreed to sell me the car for $500 over dealer cost.

But now that the car is on it's way, the dealer cost he gave me is seems a little high, so I asked him to send me the factory to dealer invoice sheet with the cost breakdown. Which he did.

Here is the dealer cost on the sheet:

Vehicle Base Model: $17,127.00
ABS: $258
--------------------------------
Total Accessories = $258 (the ABS)
Destination Charge = $485
TDA = $357
Gasoline = $6
Dealer Holdback = $396
Whsl. Financil Reserve = $198
----------------------------------
Total = $18,827

Forget the $6 gasoline charge, I don't care. But HOLY smoke, I thought dealer holdback is the money Deal gets from the manufacturer for selling the car, and since this is an factory order, this is pure profit. So why is he CHARGING ME? I am good enough to let him keep it, and not even asking him to caugh it up. But why is he turning around and charging me? Is he trying to pull a fast on, and make double profit?

Also, what's this whsl. Financial Reserve of $198? Why should I be charged. Please let me know. This is adding up to be almost $600 worth of price that I can not justify. Is he trying to rip me off?

Somebody help me please! I won't sign on the doted line until I get some damned good reasons why I should pay hold back.

mirth · November 2001

Only pay the ABS, Destination Charge, and the TDA (an advertising cost Toyota charges the dealers). The rest is junk.

Guess it just goes to show that you have to negotiate an actual price, rather than a "$500 over invoice". Too much wiggle room.

alpha01 · November 2001

cause its probably not worth the time hassle involved, seeing as how $18,827 is still an excellent deal, and you can rest assured knowing that you got a better deal than probably like 95% of new Camry purchasers.
~alpha

jdeib · November 2001

I had the same question when I ordered mine. Take a look at the other string on this board "2002 Camry SE How much did you pay?", posts number 14 through 18. I found out that the invoice you would get on edmunds has the TDA and the financial reserve built into it, the "base" invoice your dealer gave you does not. So if you add in those numbers to the dealers base invoice, you should arrive at the edmunds "base" invoice, then add your options. They are valid numbers. Good luck to you.

raybear · November 2001

The numbers look valid, and if you check TMV in your area I'm sure you'll find you're getting a good deal relative to what everyone else is paying.

ahossa · November 2001

That's a great price.In a recession riddle New York City The lowest I have seen was $20,000 with ABS and you really have to deal to get that and it has to be on a rainy day when nobody can get to the dealerships.Enjoy your car.

210delray · November 2001

The holdback and wholesale financial reserve are part of every Toyota factory-to-dealer invoice, and together total exactly 3% of the car's retail (not invoice) base price. And jdeib is correct that Edmunds includes these items when it lists the "base" invoice for the car.

Technically, the dealer gets this 3% back from Toyota, but if you follow the Inconsiderate Buyers forum, you'll see that dealers are loathe to pass this along to the customer, even for cars ordered by the customer.

You still got a great deal; buy the car and enjoy!

P.S. Your price is almost exactly what I paid for my '97 Camry LE 4-cylinder with then-standard ABS and optional floor mats nearly 5 YEARS AGO (2/1/97). My price also was $500 over invoice.

canadiancl · November 2001

It's been mentioned before, but has anyone figured out why the Camry has one section of the exhaust pipe dip down so low? It may not present a clearance problem, but it looks weird. Looks like something is about to break off.

randy821 · November 2001

I recall reading that the 2002 Camry will eventually have the option of adjustable pedals. If this is true, does any one know if you can add the adjustable pedals to the current 2002 Camry?

canadiancl · November 2001

are supposed to be a available as an option sometime early 2002.

sbell4 · November 2001

The pedal is an option that will have the factoury code XVA and will have a dealer and retail price of zero! Holdback is not money Toyota is giving to the dealer for selling a vehicle. Holdback is a percentage of the vehicle invoice that is billed by the manufacturer to the dealer to assist the dealership with recovering some of the daily interest expense paid to their bank for keeping the vehicle in stock. Example would be a car has a cost of $10000. The dealer pays $10300 for the car and that is reflected on the invoice as a holdback of $300 or 3% of base MSRP. It is the dealers money that they paid and the receive their money back in a quartly check so they only lose the intrest that was paid on the holdback. Consumers pay the holdback because that is what is used to cover the cost of doing business. The dealers have caused this problem for themselves by advertising $100 over invoice (which is with the dealers keeping the holdback) but advertising $2100 over invoice (and you keep teh holdback) doesn't sound as well. Most all information sites agree that holdback belongs to the dealer and should not be negotiated.

parump · December 2001

I agree with sbell4 regarding the buyer vs. seller calculation of the vehicle invoice price. I have submitted several postings on the Edmunds Camry Price board about car pricing. Ultimately, the most significant factor for the buyer is purchasing the car at the most competitive price. Clearly, knowing the actual price paid by the dealer is a helpful starting point. However, dealerships must make a profit. Therefore, "lowballing" a salesperson by offering $100 over the price paid by the dealer isn't likely to result in a sale.

Basically, I am encouraging buyers to obtain multiple quotes for a car, if time permits. Then, with that information you can successfully negotiate a competitive price based upon availability. Most sales managers know the sales prices of the vehicles sold by their competitors.

Although a buyer may think that s/he negotiated the deal of the century, the sales price may have be determined by factors not included in the "invoice pricing."

By the way, I do not work in the automobile industry.

xiaomidou · December 2001

I did one price quote on 2002 Camry LE with one dealer in Florida. But the invoice price he provided to me was $18,999. It is quite different from what I found in edmunds - $18,206. When I ask him, he said, "You will find the invoice higher in this 5 state southeast region. Southeast
Toyota does impose thier regional fee's into our invoice at no profit to the daelers. The fee can run $200 to $2000 depending on the model." Is that true? If it is, how can Toyoya compete with Honda in this region?

By the way, another question. How much did you guys pay for dealer fee (or administration fee or some name else)? Around $50 or $500?

truckdude1 · December 2001

We still have not bought our son a car. We are really looking at a Camry LE OR CE , as he is 6'2 tall and doesn't much like the Corolla. All we can afford to finance is 11,000 $ and the only camry we want is AFTER 1997-2001, is there any STILL RELIABLE running camrys this new for 11,000 ? We wonder if a Camry with 80,000 miles is still new enough to drive 30 miles a day and last for the next five years, and what kind of maintance will this car need? Are the transmissions long lasting we already have a small Civc and dont prefer a Corolla, so HELP about Camry's do the dealers sell them for about 10thousand used any? and what should we expect the engines to run to, thanks so much!
Truckdude1-

kethw · December 2001

I just bought a 2002 Camry XLE. I hear a rattle in the middle of the dash when there is a cross wind and bump in the trunk every so often during a stop. Has anyone noticed these as if so, what is the solution?

mackabee · December 2001

I'm sure you can find a 97 Le for around 11k check your local Toyota dealer. A Camry with 80k miles on the clock is still a pretty good car. Just like your Honda it will run a good 300k miles with normal maintenance. Good luck on your search.

: )

Mackabee

mackabee · December 2001

don't know about the noise in the dash. Check behind your glove compartment and make sure the micron air filter is not loose, same with the trunk, either the milk jug tray is loose or your jack might not be tightly secured.

: )
Mackabee

hfriedman · December 2001

Thanks to those (Canadiancl, armtdm) who posted their input on leather vs. cloth seats. I still haven't made up my mind. (I've only owned cloth and welcome further input.) Another consideration in making my decision: Is it possible to get factory-installed leather seats in the XLE without getting the whole package (#8)that includes moonroof and 6 CD changer? I hate paying an extra 1000 for a moonroof that I don't want.

sbell4 · December 2001

First of all your salesperson needed to phrase his statement much better then what he did. Southeast toyota does have a legitimate admin fee of 565 on the Camry that needs to be added to Edmunds invoice prices but SET does not have any advetising fees,TDA etc. that everyone else will have so the pricing is very competetive. As for how does Toyota compete with Honda in this region the answer is Honda is a great car and needs to be considered but here in the southeast nearly 30% of ALL the Toyotas sold in the United States comes from this 5 state region so obviously the Camry competes well. Southeast Toyota has many options, programs and incentives that the rest of the country does not have because we are owned by a private distributor and the supply of vehicles and the dealer networks are so advanced I would not work for a Toyota dealer out of the southeast. Even if you assume that the invoice is a few dollars higher in this region you will notice that the profit margin is lower because of the great supply and being able to replace the sold vehicles in the inventory within days.

thorn · December 2001

Old Accord beats new Camry and Altima.

I was shocked to find the 2002 "old" Accord prevailed in the December 2001 Car and Driver showdown with the new Altima and Camry:

http://www.forbes.com/2001/11/30/1203flint.html

kethw · December 2001

I have had my 2002 XLE V6 for about 2 weeks. I have noticed several noises. In reviewing this message board, I noticed that others are having the same noises. Here is a summary and what I know. If anyone has resolved any of these matters, please let me know.

1) Rattle in the middle of the dash

The problem seems to be caused by cross wind. High speeds alone do not cause it, but on a windy day it rattles alot. This problem has been referenced by Jeffyjc at #1958 and Ahmike at #2367.

I checked the air filter behind the glove box and everything is rock solid. The sound actually seems to come from below the A/C buttons left of the glove box. Any solutions?

2) Thud in the trunk when starting or stopping

Sometimes when I hit the gas or the breaks I hear a light thud in the trunk. As if a tennis ball was rolling around. This has been referenced by Fickel at #2048 (although I think she has a different problem) and Bweave at 2549 to name a few.

There is nothing loose in the trunk. I am wondering if it is related to the anti-lock breaks or the like. Anyone figure this out?

3) Initial Shift Sound from Engine compartment

This has been referenced at #2304 and often confused with the trunk thud. This sound seems to come from the passenger tire wheel well. It sounds like a light scrape or shifting sound.

I have no idea, popular opinion is that this is the VCS/ABS self test as mentioned in the owner's manual. Can anyone confirm this?

4) Finally, the uneasy transmission

First gear is perfectly normal. Second gear starts fine but sometimes does not sift to third when it seems it should (not until 40 mph). When I am driving at 30 mph it seems like it wants to shift but does not. This has been referenced by factman at 2072 and others.

It has been said that the trans software may need to be reloaded. Others have said that it takes 1,000 miles for the computer to adjust to the driver's style. Has this resolved anyone's problems?

5) I HAD a rattle in the passenger door. The dealer said the window was off its track. I assume that was the case, the problem seems to be fixed.

I really like the car and am happy with my purchase. Although I did not think I would have any of these questions or trips to the dealer with a new Toyota. I can live with items 2 and 3 assuming they are normal and no damage is being done to the car. I will have the dealer check #4 if it does not self correct by 1,000 miles. However, numbers 1 and 5 are unacceptable.

Any input from someone with these problems would be great. Thanks!

fickle · December 2001

Kethw:

The thud I heard is actually my speakers. To remedy that, I have to turn the radio off before I turn the car off.

I heard a rattle too. However, I couldn't seem to pinpoint the sound. You know what my "rattle" was? My sunglasses in the overhead compartment. I sure felt foolish when I realized what it really was.:)

As for the shifting, my SE has that same problem of not shifting from second to third on my downhill street. Also, when I am traveling around 50 mph, there is ocassionally an abrupt shift. I've driven over 2000 miles and it still does that. I just haven't made the time to get my car into the service dept. I will do it soon though and I'll let you know if that remedies the shifting problem(s).

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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