Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

arbalest · January 2003

ABS is standard on all V6 and XLE, available on LE and SE. Side air bags is optional,

http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/camry/options/camry_opti- ons.html

crv16 · January 2003

You bring up a good point about "maintaining your car with great TLC".

What is the point of doing so, if at trade-in time, it doesn't matter? All that really matters at trade-in time is the cosmetic appearance of the car, and the fact that there are no obvious mechanical issues.

In all the times I've traded in a car - I've NEVER been asked about maintenance I've performed on the car. For all they know, I could have changed the oil twice over 60,000 miles. Before I trade a car, I have it detailed. The dealer does not take the time to look into it's maintenance history.

It's that reason alone that I NEVER GO TO THE DEALER FOR THE "SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE". Sure, I change the oil & filter every 4k, and flush the tranny every 30k, and replace the air filter every 15k. But that's about it, because anything past that is money down the drain, since I don't keep a car more than 4 or 5 years.

rutger3 · January 2003

I do see one constant on the trade value issue. Many people trade their vehicles in too early. They buy it new and a year later trade it in with only 15,000 miles on it. They have taken the biggest depreciation hit in this initial year and then wonder why they can't get more for their car. Most cars depreciate 20-25% in the first year, some even more. The answer is simple. Don't buy new, buy a 1 or 2 year old used car since the prices have fallen so much,then when you trade it in the amount of lossed value will be much less. If you buy new, then hold onto it longer. There is a steep price to be paid if you want to drive a new car every year or two. The dealers love this because they make more money in a shorter period of time.

drmp · January 2003

I guess they're here in some dealers. Those of you who drove it, please post your feedbacks. Thanks.

oldcoyote · February 2003

I have been looking at Camry Solaras - used 2000 & 2001, new 2002 (a few left). Now I learn that an all-new 2004 model will be out this year. It is difficult to know what to do. I know there is a separate Solara board but not all the good guys go there.

When I look at Edmunds used prices, it would appear that a 2000 would go for maybe 3000-4000 less than a new one, not enough of a difference to me. Cliffy1, however, noted that used prices have been depressed.

I would really appreciate some thoughts before I hit the bottle in my frustration. How much do you save on used? If new, buy 2002,2003 or wait for 2004?

Thank you

cliffy1 · February 2003

Used car values are depressed, although finding the right car for the right price can be a trick. Just for the heck of it, I did a search on trader online to see what dealers were asking for 2000 Solaras. I found several SLEs in the $17K to $18K range. These were at dealers and were Certified. Normally, dealers leave themselves $100 to $2000 wiggle room in advertised used car prices (this is NOT true of new car ads). Some dealers don't do this but most do.

I guess it just comes down to what you want and what you want to pay for.

alpha01 · February 2003

I think a used Solara V6 would be wonderful, and if you dont need to have the newest on the block, you should be able to get a great car, at a great price, with a great warranty (like cliffy said). However, I would avoid the sluggish (but thrifty) 2.2L 4cyl.
~alpha

slotoy · February 2003

Prior to owning Camrys, I had a number of GM and Ford products. I usually preferred the Fords. My last three vehicles have been Toyota...2 Camrys and a pick-up...loved them all. I have recently been shopping for a Camry SE V6 Automatic...probably would have already bought one if I were not waiting for the VVT-i with 5spd Auto. Here is my dilema. On a whim I put out some feelers on pricing for a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis LSE. I have found one with MSRP of$30,310 that I can buy for $24,435 plus tag,tax, title. The best price I can get on a Camry SE is $24,890. The SE is well equipped but not as loaded as the Grand Marquis...I am sorely tempted to jump ship on Toyota. Can some of you Camry loyalists send a few words to help me get my head screwed on straight again?

manamal · February 2003

For words for you:

Gas Milage, Reliability, Reseale

talon95 · February 2003

I'm not necessarily a Camry loyalist (more of an Accord loyalist, mainly because I prefer its sportier feel), but think of why you'd be getting such a huge discount on the Grand Marquis. It's because it's a dinosaur, and just doesn't compete well against cars like the Camry. Mercury has to use fire sale prices just to move them.

And a little research helps to understand the need for bargain basement pricing. Here's a summary from the recent large sedan test (Toyota Avalon, Buick Park Avenue, Lincoln Town Car, Mercury Grand Marquis LSE) by Consumer Reports:

"Despite upgrades for 2003, the Grand Marquis isn't keeping up with its more modern competition. It has the least amount of interior room in this group, especially in the rear. Its ride is stiff and jiggly; handling is secure but cumbersome. The cabin lacks the features and fit-and-finish quality that one expects of a $30,000 sedan. Reliability has fallen off lately, too."

A few more major downsides compared to the Camry:

"The LSE's V8... sounds harsher and delivers an unimpressive 16 mpg overall on regular fuel."

"The interior falls short, with subpar materials and flimsy plastic trim."

"The Grand Marquis has had worse-than-average reliability of late."

So which would you really rather have? The Grand Marquis, a big cumbersome sedan that has both subpar ride AND handling, a harsh engine that guzzles fuel, cheap interior materials and poor reliability? Or a Camry, a smaller but still roomy sedan with a comfortable ride, solid handling, much better gas mileage, top notch interior materials and design, and superb reliability?

I suggest that the $5,500 saved now on the Grand Marquis would cost you much more than it's worth in the long run in additional fuel, eventual repairs, resale value and driving and owner satisfaction. It's a false economy. Don't trade your overall satisfaction for a handful of extra toys. Get the Camry and don't look back.

pluto5 · February 2003

IMO you don't want another boring Toyota. I shoppped the GM, too, but skipped that dinosauer for an Impala LS, the most fun to drive IMO.

pluto5 · February 2003

Just don't want slotoy to miss a good thing.

Also, Impala LS was not included in the comparison referenced by Talon95 yet is one of the most reliable sedans tested by CR.

Sorry if you have a problem with it.

talon95 · February 2003

While it ranks higher than average in reliability for an American sedan, its overall test score puts it in the bottom half of CR's list of midsized cars... ranked as good, while the Camry V6 is ranked as excellent, 2 rankings higher. Big difference. There are many mid-sized cars that rank considerably higher.

Anyway, 'nuff said about this off-topic subject.

maxamillion1 · February 2003

Just kidding
The Camry is more refined, has better styling (subjective), rides better, and is more reliable.

Also, what options do you have with the Camry. The sunroof is NOW standard on the SE models isn't.

Do not get the Grand Mark, if Toyota has been this good to you, STICK with THEM!

lovetosavegas · February 2003

Hehe, seems like not too many Camry defenders here. Plus every Camry owner is probably biased to give you subjective opinion. If you have some time, try to test drive a few cars in that price range, see how much sales people will consider your needs versus their own, consider your priorities and make a choice while balancing your wants and needs. I am kinda disappointed with the latest reliability/quality reports on latest model Toyotas by their owners. I wish you a good new-car buying experience.

cliffy1 · February 2003

Believe it or not, I like those cars. I would NEVER buy one new but you should be able to find a very cheap one that is only 2 or 3 years old. I've always had a thing for rear wheel drive, V8 gas hog boats. I'm weird though.

drmp · February 2003

and was disappointed by the numb and sloppy steering at 80 mph. I thought steering was drastically improved over previous models. Haven't driven camry at 80 mph so I can't compare but my '99 passport is razor sharp in comparison. What's anybody tell the steering precision on the camry at 80 mph?

crv16 · February 2003

Year old ex-rentals can be found at a lot of dealers, for pretty cheap. My local Ford dealer is selling 2002 Grand Marquis LS's for 15k. I've seen him selling lesser equipped models for 11 or 12k.

I'd be hesitant about buying a new one, unless you plan on keeping it quite a while, cuz the first year depreciation hit is a whopper.

On the plus side, these cars are built like tanks, and should last quite a while.

rubicon52 · February 2003

Camry steering may not be sharp compared to a 3 Series, but I think you'll find it significantly sharper than the Grand Marquis. I'm guessing comparable to your Passport.

mackabee · February 2003

Just drove the vvt-i V6 SE with the 5spd auto tranny today. Great power at initial acceleration! Did not like the way the 5spd tranny is geared. Shifts are too closely spaced once it hits third, fourth and fifth gear. Also noticed quite a bit of downshift lag very similar to V6 Accord (2002) otherwise still a very nice car.
: )
Mackabee

maxamillion1 · February 2003

because he is one of the most unbiased salesmen I know.

coolguyky7 · February 2003

Are you able to compare it to the 5-speed in the 2002+ Lexus ES? I guess it's the same unit but it has had many complaints.

jpsmith · February 2003

Thanks for the observations on the new V6 setup.
It doesn't sound like a clear-cut overall improvement ... I find pronounced downshift lag to be quite annoying. It sounds like in the rush to keep up with the hp numbers game, they gave up some refinement?

slotoy · February 2003

Thanks to all who offered comments on my recent post concerning Mercury Grand Marquis vs Camry. I finalized my purchase yesterday. The new car is a Super White Camry XLE 4cyl,automatic with Stone interior. Optional equipment includes XLE Premium Plus Package (leather, pwr moonroof, alloys), wing spoiler, color keyed splashguards, ash tray/lighter, carpeted floor mats, and Gold Package w/accent stripes. MSRP was $26,591. I am paying $23,501 not including tax, tag, title. I shopped four dealers in the metro Atlanta area; but ended up buying the car from a dealer about 50 miles outside Atlanta. His price was almost $500 better than I could do in Atlanta. He even offered to deliver the car to my house; but I opted to go pick it up at the dealership. I don't expect any problems; but if there are any glitches, it will be easier to correct them there than my driveway. I pick it up tomorrow.

alpha01 · February 2003

What about the V6? Why did you not decide to get that one? Great deal, though, IMHO. Enjoy! (This 4 cyl is great- very good power, excellent fuel economy- our LE 4 avg. about 27MPG in a mix of cty/hwy, with some bias on city)
~alpha

dougb10 · February 2003

Slotoy probably bought the 4 cylinder for the same reason that I did...plenty of go...and real economy too. For a $3,000 Canadian premium, the 6 cylinder was not really worth it to us. Gas is about $2.35 (U.S.) around Toronto right now and it looks like it ain't going down!
We have the same 2003 XLE (silver with stone leather) that he has and just love it...a great car for the money. We traded in a '99 Sienna XLE with 117,000 km. on it and will use the Camry to supplement my wife's Subaru Outback. Now that we are retired, we can use the extra fuel money to see more of North America.
One of the other things that intrigued me about the new 4 cylinder engine , was that it had a timing chain, rather than a belt. I maintain our cars by the book and through the dealer. The oil changes and regular maintenance is very reasonable for both the Toyota and Subaru...it really isn't worth the hassle to try and do it myself. The important factor, however, is that you have to trust the dealer. In my case, it is working just fine.

junepug · February 2003

We purchased a 2002 Camry LE, gold, V6 last summer and absolutely love it. Must admit that we had the heat shield rattle and thanks to this board, were able to find the problem and have the dealer fix it. The car has been absolutely problem free. The only question I have is can the sun glass holder in the roof of the car be altered or swapped to accommodate a garage door opener? The one that is in there has a hump that prohibits the insertion of the opener. The 2003 Highlander that we purchased in Oct does not have the hump in the holder and the opener fits perfectly.

drmp · February 2003

Mackabee, that's what I want from the new transmission, close ratio at the top three gears. You'll need this often at the highway when you want to pass other cars quickly. About downshift lag, I think there is a "power" button with more agressive shift algorithm. Another thing that I am very glad to learn is the new v6 has quicker off-the-line acceleration. I enjoy this trait of very very much.

slotoy · February 2003

I picked up my new XLE today as scheduled...no problems, no hassles, great experience. I failed to mention in my previous post that all my negotiations with this dealership were by telephone...today was the first time I saw the sales rep face-to-face. As I drove the fifty miles to the dealership my mind conjured up a lot of "what ifs" that could blow the deal at the last minute. I am pleased to report that none of them happened. All the paperwork was prepared in advance and the figures were exactly as had been agreed to on the phone. Of course the car is great...as I would expect a Camry to be; but the most impressive thing about the whole transaction was the courtesy and professionalism exhibited by everyone I dealt with at the dealership.

alpha01... I finally opted for the 4cyl instead of the V6 for a number of reasons. Timing chain vs timing belt, unanswered questions about the 5spd AT (based on comments from 300ES owners), questionable suitability of 87 octane fuel in the V6. In the final analysis, I just couldn't justify the additional cost of the V6 for the type of driving that I do. Bottom line is that I wanted the V6; but decided that I didn't really NEED it.

pluto5 · February 2003

talon95 · February 2003

Well, I'm just reporting what Consumer Reports says.

"The Impala is Chevrolet's new **midsize** entry, reviving a nameplate that once graced a large car. "

And yes, I know the EPA classification. So I don't know what they were thinking.

mackabee · February 2003

I didn't see a "power button" anywhere. But, you're right. I did notice how quickly I was doing 80-85mph and had to slow down. The off the line accelaration was outstanding. I'm going to have to drive it again and look for any buttons.\
: )
Mackabee

drmp · February 2003

was removed starting 1998 so I guess you just have to aggressively sink the gas to initiate a quick downshift.

alpha01 · February 2003

It was actually removed starting with the 1997 redesign. Allegedly, the transmission could decipher on its own whether or not to hold gears longer before shifting, essentially the function of the engaged ECT button on Gen 1-3 Camrys.
~alpha

drmp · February 2003

Since the new V6 vvti are already in some dealers, I am puzzled that edmunds is behind and still reports the outdated V6. What's up? Is there an explanation for this???

pluto5 · February 2003

Impala has better NHTSA side star ratings than Camry and IIHS categorizes Impala as a large car so it has a clear safety advantage.

alpha01 · February 2003

The Impala for side impacts (no side SRS) scores 4 stars driver, 4 stars rear passenger.

The Camry for side impacts (no side SRS) scores
3 stars for driver, 5 stars rear passenger.

If you look at the actual injury measurements, the the Camry's driver score is close to that of the Impala.

Interestingly, the addition of Side SRS yields no benefit to the Impala (which does not offer Side Curtains).

The Camry has not yet been tested with Side SRS, bt its available setup, is, IMO, the best available- a thoracic bag that deploys from the seat, AND a Head Curtain protection system.
~alpha

pluto5 · February 2003

Opinions are like armpits............the fact is that Camry has worse side impact star rating for front occupant and worse frontal star rating for passenger side, and the vehicle is several hundred pounds lighter.

badgerfan · February 2003

You might as well save your breath. The Camry lovers in this discussion will likely not acknowledge a car from a US based manufacturer can have any feature better than Camry, even in one tiny area such as frontal/side crash rating.

Myself, being a Taurus owner and fan, would like to gently suggest they could buy a new 200Hp DOHC V-6 Taurus for $18-$19K and get a roomy, safe and yes, reliable, rattle free vehicle.

Note, I do not wish to pick a fight and will post no more here, just wish people would consider alternatives with less prejudice.

junepug · February 2003

I have had three Fords in my life, 2 Bronco II and 1 Granada. All three of them had sooo many rattles that I couldn't find any points that did not rattle. The cars were also very unreliable. I did keep the Granada for almost 10 years and strongly believe that my repair bills helped refurnish the dealership owners house. Also, my father had a Ford and it rattled quite a bit. We are now driving two rattle free cars. My wife has a 2002 Camry and I have a 2003 Highlander. Much better that Ford could ever be.

pluto5 · February 2003

Before I buy a sedan, I always compare Toyota, Honda, Ford and Chevrolet, sometimes others. You may be correct that the Toyota owners are stuck in a rut like the Honda buyers but that's their loss. According to Edmunds.com survey the Camry has an overall customer satisfaction score of 8.8, the Impala 9.0 and the Taurus 8.5. I agree it is foolish to buy without considering all.

pluto5 · February 2003

FYI the early Corona was a POS, too.

badgerfan · February 2003

Bronco II and Granadas are very ancient history for Ford-absolutely no resemblance to current products. Lets go back older yet: Model T's weren't very reliable either, but revolutionized the auto industry! I am on my second Taurus, had the first (1990 model) ten years and never had a squeek or rattle. Second one (2000 model) is going on three years now, again rattle free and also completely trouble free.

Sorry, promised not to post again here, but just couldn't allow references to 25-30 year old Ford designs as examples of Ford rattles and poor reliability to go unchallenged. I would have never bought a Ford back then either, their sedans had supremely mushmobile floaty suspensions compared to the competition. That reputation completely changed with Taurus introduction in mid 80's.

jpsmith · February 2003

I test drove both 2003 Taurus Duratec and Camry LE V6 within the past month. The Taurus was a competent car, but the Camry was WAY ahead in quietness, ride, and fit/finish. And Taurus has average reliability, Camry much better than average.

Yes, Camry is more expensive, but IMO you get what you pay for.

alpha01 · February 2003

I'm more than willing and open for discussion of all vehicles- Yes, it is my preference that the Camry is a better car than the Taurus or Impala, that does NOT mean I am stuck in a "Toyota rut".

In my last post, I simply wished to show that the Camry scored BELOW the Impala for the driver in the side crash, BUT ABOVE for the passenger, which talon chose to ignore. Additionally, I pointed out that the Impala does not offer side airbags/side curtains, which the Camry does, and that this setup was not tested by NHTSA. I'm not really sure how that is an opinion. Even so, when I did voice my opinion that this setup was superior, I clearly stated it was my opinion, and reasons why. Yea, everyone does have opinions- but without 'em, boards like these wouldnt exist. (And I, for one, enjoy these boards).

In my recent search for a new car for MYSELF (the Camry is the family vehicle), I looked closely at the Focus- its a great handling vehicle. But, reliable? Judging from the what? at least 9 MAJOR SAFETY RELATED RECALLS and bottom rung rating from Consumer Reports, I crossed it off my list.

Regarding the Camry (and Accord), if you look at... oh, say.. EVERY trade publication ranging from Car and Driver to Consumer Reports, the Camry and Accord are consistently rated higher than the Taurus and Impala. With both the Camry and Accord available at or below invoice, I don't really see the point of anyone choosing a Taurus or Impala, which will ultimately have lower resale value, and arent as competitve. For me, a lower price by itself doesnt equate to a GOOD value.

Finally, I'll note that I was really excited when Chevy introduced the Impala in 2000- I was sent a certificate that promised a $100 savings bond if I test drove one. When I walked into the dealer they didnt want to give me the time of day, perhaps for my age (19), and they filled out the certificate without a test drive! The easiest $100 I will have ever made! Thanks, GM.

~alpha

tk865 · February 2003

who owns the much-coveted Camry V6 - 5 speed? I recently got one in stock, and I'm lloking at it for my mother, but I know the Camry is no longer offered in this configuration - my concern is whether it is a reliability issue. So......
Those of you who have one - how many miles on the clock, any issues?

mackabee · February 2003

or you can get her a 5spd V6 Solara Se if she can live with a 2door. Those are still available and fun to drive.
: )
Mackabee

talon95 · February 2003

"Impala has better NHTSA side star ratings than Camry and IIHS categorizes Impala as a large car so it has a clear safety advantage."

And you're telling me that because why? I never made any comments about the Impala's safety. My issue with the Impala is its dated overdamped chassis and most particularly a dashboard that looks like it was assembled from a junk parts bin.

Consumer Reports tested it in whatever way they saw fit. And it still ended up below midpack against cars like the Camry that you seem so intent to say is a poorer choice.

As for not giving American cars a chance, I bought the sales pitch and got a 1997 Cutlass, a car being touted (along with its chassis-mate, the Chevy Malibu) as the US answer to the Camry and Accord. After three years of enduring its clunky suspension, poor directional stability, creaks and rattles, and numerous equipment failures, I got rid of it and got a 2000 Accord. The difference is like night and day... by comparison to the Cutlass, with the Accord it feels like I've moved up from a basic family hauler to a sport luxury sedan. The Camry that I test drove gave a similar feel, I just happened to choose the Accord.

So to badgerfan, I gave a "competitive" American car a 3 year opportunity to show me that American cars had caught up with the Japanese cars, and it failed miserably. For that reason, I'll apologize to nobody for preferring cars like the Camry and Accord to underachieving designs like the Impala. As for the Taurus, the money you save now will be lost due to far faster depreciation in maybe 3 years, and you'll still be driving the lackluster design that is the current Taurus. And yes, more contemporary Fords do clunk and rattle... my mother's '93 Sable has done so since day one.

toyotaken · February 2003

All Toyota cars have seatbelt pretensioners and force limiters. These are not available on ANY GM car other than the Vibe (which is a rebadged Toyota). In a crash, the pretensioners will ensure that the front passengers will be in as close to optimal position (pulled back into the seat) as possible and the force limiters will help prevent injuries relating to the seatbelt itself such as broken ribs or internal injuries.

Just a couple of additional points of interest for those making comparisons.

Ken

pluto5 · February 2003

Camry is not the best choice for safety based on star ratings and its bland styling puts it below the pack IMO. CR has not tested the Impala LS lately and if you look at other reviews like cars.com the Impala LS gets a better review than the Camry.

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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