Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ficuss

Back in the spring of 2003, we began seeing brake light sockets that showed an arcing or burned spot on the socket contacts. tblazed was good enough to post a picture of his socket which was burned. Today I received a notice of extended coverage for failures of the brake light sockets. We characterized the problem as defective sockets back then and GM comes out with a letter more than a year later. Who says the general doesn't listen.
 One problem with this way of dealing with the defective sockets is that only current triplet owners will be notified of the problem. No NTSB, no repair shops outside of GM shops, no future owners. They will have to fend for themselves.

ross1962

Yeah, but we have this thing called salt water that is on our trunks when we get out of the surf. Not good for the leather. And who said I was knocking leather? I like it. But I'm really glad that my cloth seats will never look like my old hiking boots.

luxride

Recently traded in my 03' Envoy, which was trouble free, for a 04' Rainier which I am also paying less on my lease for a more expensive vehicle. So far I love the ride and I even find the seats much more comfortable.

The question I have, is the factory XM radio supposed to show the song title and artist when listening to XM? The radio shows the station name but that's it.

Thanks

tmac8

Day two was just a trickle. Day three no more smoke. Real happy with it so far. I installed the Hotchkis sway bar kit tonight. Wish I would have done that two years ago. What a difference!

js_euler

Luxride:

The song artist and title will display when you press the "Display" button (shared w/ the "Tune" button). It's a little slow, and limited on characters, but it does provide some info and fun.

asteinman

I have not had radio problems -yet- but, I have had just about every other problem, including electrical problems with my 2002 Envoy. My Envoy is in the shop at least once a month and many times my invoice comes back with "can not duplicate the problem". I understand your frustration. Good luck.

twinrotts

The external temp sensor is definately part of the climate control sensing system. Mine acted up several weeks ago and the dealer replaced.
The system has been AOK since the repair

poles

i have an 02 LS TB
i have had the car in the dealership for this problem before. when i acclerate over roughly 30 mph, it ticks. when i get on the expressway and really hop on it, the ticking gets louder and faster. the dealership said there was an exhaust leak and they fixed it, not a very good fix. i was wondering if anyone else has had this problem
great car

01_hoe

What area is the noise coming from? Some have reported a noise that was a problem with the tachometer. I believe they had the instrument cluster replaced to fix that issue.

jp13

My 04 trailblazer LS oil pressure runs between 45-50.Maybe it's me but it seems high.What are the normal pressure?

scottc454

The rule of thumb is a minimum of 10 lbs pressure per 1000 RPM's (without going below 20lbs)

There's really no such thing as too much pressure. 45-50 is good.

2k_impala_ls

I think this was on here before. When the 02 TB-LS ac is turned on for the 1st time it cools down fast. If I drive and let it sit a few hours, it seems to take a long time to get cool. Is that the low pressure switch. thanks

tblazed

Mine runs from 40 psi at idle to 60 at high RPM. Typically runs 50-55 psi in normal driving with 10W-30 oil.

The pressure is regulated to 65 psi max. Excessive pressure can cause problems. That's why there is a pressure regulator built in. Here is a description of the oil pump system from the 4200 I-6 overview.

 "The oil pump’s gerotor design uses eccentric lobes to move oil from the inlet to outlet ports. An inner ring with 10 lobes, driven by the front of the crankshaft, is surrounded by 11 lobes on an outer ring. As oil enters the pump, the eccentric design compresses the oil, then releases the oil at a regulated max pressure of 65 psi at 2,500 rpm, circulating 11 gallons per minute. The pump body is made of aluminum, and the gerotor gears are made of powdered metal. The pressure regulator is a spring and piston design that is incorporated into the oil pump assembly."

tblazed

Good luck getting that fixed. If you are successful getting this symptom fixed PLEASE let me know!

 This is THE most annoying function my TB has. A friend that has a TB-LS like mine has had that problem addressed several times in warranty, the switch replaced twice, and the recent updates done, and still takes its time cooling down, same as mine does. Watching a thermometer in the center vent, will start cooling, get down to maybe 90° then will stop cooling for 20-30 sec and temp will go back up 4-5° or so, resume cooling and continue this "cycling" until it finally gets down to "normal" 48° to 52° out the center vent ( 95-100° outside ambient temp).

The low pressure cycling switch symptom is, it will be cooling fine, then stop cooling altogether when the switch sticks open. Happens very intermittently, usually.

bonnie1

I bought my first SUV in 99 it was a 00 Blazer. I loved everything about it. Big enough so I could haul almost anything without being a truck. I am turning in my leased Blazer this fall. I have 36,000 miles and have had nothing but trouble. The battery had to be replaced at under 13,000. The power steering and gearbox went out twice(luckily I hadn't left the driveway) at approximately 21,000 miles. After the warranty went out on time not miles, my brake cooler lines had to be replaced, the horn went out. If I had been on the highway when the steering gearbox went out both times.........I would probably not be here. Also, the alternator went out under 15,000 miles. These are things that USED to last for thousands of miles.....but not anymore. You can see why I'm hesistant of buying another GM product. I really love the SUV's tho. Any comments to help me out buying/leasing another SUV????????????

mookie14

I am going to buy a fipk kit now if i had to buy one which one should i buy i got a 03 tblazer um all i know is k&n and volant so ??? please let me know who put one on there tblazer thanks ps. what is the reason to put one on?? thanks

ficuss

You answered your own question. You love SUV's but had a terrible experience with a GM SUV. Go with your instincts, there are many other SUV's out there.
GM sold us a bill of goods that did not live up to the hype. Your story has been repeated here many times. How can anyone buy another GM SUV after reading the many horror stories posted here? They cannot dismiss the complaints as just a few malcontents. The quality proof is not to be found in GM's pudding. The reason I have a 2002 TB is my 2001 TB was a problem from the first day it left the dealer. I traded it in with 6500 miles and bought a 2002 TB LTZ. What a mistake that was. GM learned nothing about quality during the past several years. The quality control amounts to selling the cars and fixing the problems as they are reported. You would think they just started building cars if you added up all of the problems with just the triplets, from wipers that don't work in the rain to brake lights that don't work due to poorly designed sockets. Front to back and side to side these cars are the some of the most problematic cars I have ever read about. Everyone says something like "my triplet is fine except for this". Add up all the "this's" and you can see the full picture.

Good luck

allenr

Ficuss,

I agree the triplets have had there share of problems. Considering less than 1% of all owners even post on these kinds of forums your “horror stories” quote is a bit over the top.

I have a 2002 Bravada build date 02-02 so it was one if the first out on the road. I have had most of the small problems talked about on this forum. You know what?…I still love to drive my Bravada every chance I get, when I can pry it away from my wife I runs same or better that than day I bought it, wouldn’t hesitate to take it out tomorrow on any kind of driving trip

Vegas might be my first choice!

My local dealer has been very understanding and helpful in getting all the issues fix to my satisfaction. I know more than a few people have to fight there dealer every time they go in. I just take a TSB print out or a few quotes from other owners from this forum and there is no problems. My service adviser lists my concerns on work orders and does his best to make me a happy owner.

Just read other SUV forums and then weight it against this one. Every major problem has been address by GM, maybe not as fast a most people would like but they are getting fixed.

Allen

paulyjsob

I agree... I have 27000 miles on my 03 Envoy and am extremely pleased with it. I had the AC problem and the taillight problem, but they were both fixed promptly when the problem occurred. It drives great and I never question its reliability. The problems I've faced with my Envoy are no where near the tranny problems my wife is going through on her 02 Acura 3.2TL (one of the most reliable cars according to consumer reports). On a side note, here at work we have 3 trailblazers, 2 Envoy XL's, and 1 Envoy and all of them have been trouble free as well.

ficuss

If only GM had addressed the problems BEFORE they began selling the triplets we would all be happy campers. There is no excuse for some of the problems these cars have. A windshield wiper motor that leaks when it rains, give me a break. A brake light socket that arcs, a suspension arm that breaks, these are serious design defects, not regular malfunctions. A cylinder sleeve that comes loose and a roof liner that sags are not signs of quality in my book. You and others may in fact be totally happy with the triplets, I have higher expectations for a $34,000.00 car.

madmax1

I own a 2004 Trailblazer EXT LT. I purchased in February '04 and it has around 7000 miles. When it came the summertime here in NJ I started using my a/c for the first time and every so often I here a whistling sound coming from it. The whistling sound happens more in city traffic. Has anyone experienced this problem before. It's very annoying.

wpkelleysr

I own a 02/LTZ TB - 80K miles on it. Prior to that, I owned a 96 Grand Cherokee that came apart at the seams at 180K miles. I've bought 5 new cars in my (GM/Jeep/Volvo/Volkswagen) life - and the TB is so far the best. I've had little problems of all sorts with all automobiles. Having a discussion group allows us to focus on the problems - provides backup when servicing, allows us to do home fixes (I've been out of warranty for a while), and confirm our collective diagnoses. However, such focus should not be misconstrued persistent criticism - it is simply the purpose of the forum. Rare is the day when I post a simple "this car works great" message. It serves no purpose. I use this forum to (i) prevent little problems from getting big, and (ii) identifying areas where I can get manufacturer or dealer support.

Nonetheless, today I wish to report that "this car works great". If I were to drive it over a cliff tomorrow, I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

- WPK

raleigh

I agree with WPKELLEYSR. Seems to me that as a society, we are rapidly becoming a bunch of whiners who expect things to work perfectly all the time and if they don't, want to sue someone. The Triplets, like almost all vehicles these days, are enormously complicated pieces of work. I am frankly amazed that they work as well as they do. I have had zero problems with my Envoy so far and I find that quite remarkable considering that it has more than 10 miles of wiring and far more computing power than the first moon lander. It also has a 3-year warranty. I remember when new cars had a 90-day warranty ... and there was a reason it was that short. Something was bound to go wrong every week or so and the manufacturer would go broke fixing them. We are living in a golden age of motor vehicles. These things have far more performance, luxury, and features than any of us could have dreamt about a generation ago ... and they last far longer. Be glad and rejoice. You could be living in China ... or Bangladesh.

stever

Yeah, but I still want it to crank and go every time I hop in :-)

I remember cars in the 60's - not a reliable bunch all in all.

Steve, Host

ficuss

I don't consider replacing stock suspension parts on a new Envoy "nothing". Why did you replace the suspension of your Envoy if it was fine? It must not have met your expectations of your new Envoy. Some of us (or just I) feel that the triplets could and should have been checked out better before they were put up for sale. The complexity of the triplets is the best and worst thing going for them. They are certainly more prone to failure than are simpler cars. But then the simpler cars don't have the bells and whistles. I guess I'll just go on expecting better things from my purchases.
 The triplets may have more computing power than the first lunar lander, but I doubt anyone here would want to go to the moon with the triplets technology.
P.S. My first car was a 1959 Rambler Rebel. The seats reclined fully without hitting the cigar lighter. It had a push button tranny and a Holley 4bbl carb on a 283 CI V8. The only gripe I ever had with that car was the vacuum powered wipers. They would stop whenever you got over 105 mph. I suppose the triplets have a better wiper motor, it only stops when it is raining.

gmcman

I agree I love my envoy, 31K miles and no real problems to give me any kind of concern. The mirrors, A/C switch, no big deal the dealer fixed it. However..... The two most annoying things I have to live with are the oversize piece of plastic that houses the sunroof switch and the near impossible airflow cutoffs for the middle vents and the driver side, the passenger side works great but try to turn them with any kind of oil,lotion,sweat on your fingers. If you don't have nails it's near impossible, they push into the dash to make it even worse. With the sunroof switch, c'mon look how big the area is for the rocker switch, they could have easily raised the rearview mirror up another inch or more so it wasn't in the middle of the windshield. On a more positive note, I'll take my peeves in place of timing belt failures, and all the over-priced foreign parts.

ross1962

Good post! And good point.

allenr

Are you talking about the defective lower a-arm? It was unfortunate that the part built by an outside vendor was bad. How was it GM fault they didn't build to spec? In what way do you feel they didn't address the problem?

Let me tell you how much I was worried about that a-arm. When I read about the problem and called the dealer, they offered to tow me into the shop right away from where I was at the time (work). It took me all of two seconds to decide what to do. Have it towed and maybe have the tow truck guys damage my new truck or just drive it down and drop it off? I walk out to my truck and drove it down to the dealer, they gave me a rental and said we’ll call when we have a fix.

How is that for being proactive, GM didn’t even know what the problem was but got all the trucks off the road and then started working the problem.

Must have cost a few dollars, as they had 4,000 to 5,000 trucks out by then and all the owners were put in GM paid rentals and GM paid tows to dealer.
I even took two trips on GM with the rental, nice of them to keep my own Bravada’s mileage down.

I don’t think the wiper was leaking water. It had a mis-placed vent hole that could let water in and it had no place to get out. The real problem is it needed a “drain hole” to let the water out. That all fixed now per a TSB, I would never got in just for that. I save up little problems and get them fix with one visit.
Just to show how nice my dealer is, he offered a rental car to my wife who was dropping it off. Even though they were not planning to keep it over night.
 
I will have to agree with you on the tail light sockets, very light duty design. I see our trucks with brake lights out all the time. I’m sure if enough trucks have a problem we’ll a TSB or recall on that.
 
What I did was disassemble the lights and coated all the electric connections with silicone die-electric grease. Guess what, I never had problem but that might be more than most people would do.

Allen

johntr

for the feedback you gave me on the switch illumination. I was looking forward to the challenge of replacing these & providing a lower cost alternative to this board. Fortunately, unfortunately, my fan clutch seized a day or two later, which also caused the service engine soon light to come on. Because of this I told the dealer to order the $190 module so that my bulbs would be replaced. I had to pay a $100 deductible to cover my ext. warranty work anyway. So while in for repairs, they cleaned my fuel injectors as well. The codes from the SES light indicated a misfire code which prompted the injector cleaner. I also had the last of the four steering controls replaced because of flaking. My passenger mirror was replaced because it got stuck when I move it too far down - I don't have the mirror pisitioning when reversing. The new mirror works great and seeing how it works, I wonder if the old mirror wasn't good from the start. The new mirror seems to have more range of motion. This seems like a lot of stuff, but other than the fan & SES light, these are cosmetic issue which I most likely would never have had the work done, even if I was still within my initial warranty 36k...

BTW, I do have heated driver & passenger mirrors. The driver mirror has the heated symbol, but I don't remember if the old mirror had it as well. The new mirror doesn't, so can anyone confirm if both mirror should have it to indicate the option? I want to make sure that the new mirror is heated properly, before the frosty months arrive.

Overall, I'm still really pleased with my 2002 TB LT model.

THANKS!
John

ficuss

Was the suspension arm built to spec or was it poorly engineered, I don't know. My point was that they should have test driven many of these cars for a while. The problem showed up right after the cars were introduced.
 The wiper motor is leaking water, a drain hole would treat the symptom, not cure the problem. I jokingly suggested a drain hole when the problem surfaced 1.5 years ago, post 11223 . I guess someone at GM thought I was serious.
 Your temporary socket fix with silicone grease is just that, short term. The original problem still exists. I just recently received a letter from GM regarding the brake light socket problem. They will replace the socket on an as needed basis. They will not (as of now) have a general recall for this problem.
 BTW when GM puts its name on a product, it becomes a GM product. The suppliers don't enjoy the positive advertising when a supplied part is a hit, they should not shoulder the blame when a part fails. Was it ever shown that the part failed do to defective materials or workmanship or was it just to small to do the job?

tblazed

This is the stuff I use-



No more problems after putting this compound on the bulb contacts. This is specfically made for electrical contacts in automotive and truck applications. Should be available at truck stops. A friend who works on commercial trucks gave me a tube. This is what they use, at the shop where he works, to prevent failure of electrical connectors for trailer and clearance lighting, etc.

mookie14

Answer Message 15003 i will appreciate it thanks.

gam2

6 people at work have Triplets. All have problems.
ALL! GM repurchased my Bravada. My Envoy has problems also, but I'm living with them 'cause I'm sick of the dealers. The basic design is good, the execution is poor. And trust me, nobody would be buying these things if they had to pay full list. They've had $4-6000 rebates as long as I can remember, not to mention you can get them under invoice. Why doesn't GM price them accordingly or do they somehow think they are giving us a really good deal on a vehicle that can list over $40K?

On the plus side, I get good gas mileage for a SUV, it rides nice and has good power. If they could fix the wind noise, brake pedal squeak, and seat squeaks, I'd be happy.

GAM

tblazed

Since this topic came up again I decided to take a look at all 6 of my tail light bulbs last night. Over a year since putting the Truck Lite grease on the contacts. All look good as new. No oxidation, burning of corrosion seen. Doing this definitely works.

Problems- nothing major here. Only some recalls, no repairs or failed parts requiring replacement so far. No brake or seat squeaks, and very minimal, if any, wind noise. Very quiet overall. For the $21k I paid for my "loaded" LS new, I am overall satisfied with the value I received. Just the same old slow to cool down A/C that seems to be a common "function" for whatever reason. Sure would be nice if GM would address that before my warranty runs out next Jan!

snaab

hey all. i got a 2004 Envoy SLE and my dad has a 2004 Trailblazer LT EXT. Both have 17inch tires (Michelins on the Envoy and Continentals on the TB). I was checking the tire pressures the other day on both and noticed that the driver door sticker says that the front should be 30psi and rears should be 35psi. When i addujusted the pressures i noticed the fronts looking pretty low on air. Is this ok still though? what pressure does everyone here use? would it be safe to put some more air in them so that both are around 37psi? thanks. oh and ... i love my envoy!

betsy

How long has your dad has his Trailblazer? We are looking at an Ascender LS 7 passenger and wondered what kind of gas mileage to expect in the real world? Also, Just how hard is the thing to park? I have to park in an underground garage and do some manuevering in my Mazda MPV so I am wondering just how difficult that extra 2 feet is going to make it to get in and out.

We would apppreciate any advice from folks around the board who have any of the extended triplets.

capriracer

The reason your front tires looked low on air (when compared to the backs) was that in an unloaded condition, most of the weight is on the front. Have a couple of your friends hop in the most of the additional load is put on the rear.

Personally, I like to use 3 to 5 psi above what the placard says. I get better fuel economy, better tire wear, better wet traction, better snow traction, better steering response, better tire durability, and only give up a bit of ride harshness.

ross1962

It was unfortunate that the part built by an outside vendor was bad. How was it GM fault they didn't build to spec?

The manufacturer is always responsible for the suppliers' products that go into their final product. It should be caught at Receiving Inspection, but many companies don't inspect as thoroughly these days, instead "empowering" their employees to inspect their own work. (This is a BAD thing). The philosphy is sold to the unions as "empowerment", but it really means reducing the payroll (less inspectors). As a consumer, I don't like it because I get an inferior product.

ross1962

The turning radius is very good on these. Probably better than your mini van, but go drive one.
I get 20+ mpg highway in my I6 5 passenger Trailblazer. If you get the 7 passenger with the V8, you'll get a little worse.

02envoyowner

Hi All. 2002 Envoy SLT nearing the 36K mark.
Seems good recommendations for purchasing the GMPP Major Guard from Black Pontiac. Ready to purchase, but 1 question for the forum. When I visit my dealer, I notice the $$ diagnostic fee posted in the service area. Anyone know how this works if you have the Major Guard? I would assume {?} it would not be an additional charge -- but seeking the real truth. Anybody...Anybody :-) Thanks!

Also....does any feel a "rubbing" or "resistance" in the steering column? Had the dealer address this; they lubed it. Felt a little better for a few weeks, but now, returning. And the "surge/clunk" from the rear of the vehicle at stop. Dealer says it's 'normal' (to feel like a car has hit you from behind). I remain skeptical.......

envoyenvy2

Have an Envoy that is coming up on warranty expiration and have a question. I have found a couple of messages regarding this but need more specific info regarding adjusting the air suspension. Anyone done this or have a service manual that mentions it? Every message I have found mentions the passenger side being around an inch lower that the drivers, dealer says there is no adjustment.

previousamigo

I also had the rubbing and resistance and the dealer replaced the entire steering column. 2 months later it was leaking power steering fluid so they ordered another column but my '02 TB 4X4 LS sat in the shop for 11 days waiting for the part. Thats OK because I put 1200 miles on the rental TB that they gave me and every thing was still under waranty.

The rental was an '04 TB with over 39,000 miles and it had been driven hard. There were plenty of squeaks and rattles and I used it to pull my trailer. When I opened the flap to plug the trailer lights in, about a pound of dirt fell out. It leaked oil and the turn signals would get stuck in place. I was also able to see how much was de-contented from my '02.

Now things get scary because I just turned over 36,000 miles this morning. Glad I bought the extended warranty. I usually keep my vehichles for at least 10 years but this is my first domestic purchase.

pewterxl02

Help -I had my 2002 Envoy XL for over 2 years and I have had it at the dealer for at least 12 different problems. It is in the shop today again. In the past few months it has been there at least once a month. The dealer fixes everything but a new car should not be having so many problems. We had the rear and front air go, 4 wheel drive switch, power window, hatch, windshield wipers go,etc. Has anyone else had a lot of problems? We contacted GMC and they offered us an additional 60,000 mile warranty free. But even though we like our car to drive we cannot stand the unreliability. Has anyone else been able to get GMC to buy back the car?
Thanks for your responses.

envoy_xl_in_pa

Betsy -

  My wife made the jump from an old style Chevy Blazer to the '02 Envoy XL back in May of 02, right after the 7 passenger models came out. Initially, she was concerned about the size of the vehicle. The blind spot in the rear of these vehicles is significant, especially when the third row of seats is up. However, after a few weeks of driving it, she could move that thing around like a pro. Just takes some getting used to, especially since that third row is theater style seating, meaning that it sits higher off of the floor of the truck than the second row.

Someone else asked about gas mileage on the XL versions. We have the '02, XL, SLT 4x4, loaded with every toy but the DVD. It has the 3.42 rear gear, and it was listed at 15/20 city/highway on the EPA sticker. Real world experience is more like 13/18 city highway. Your actual mileage may vary. I find that I can get better mileage out of it than my wife can. I took a 140 mile round trip on the highway last week, and got 21.2 on the DIC, with the AC running the whole time. Pretty good for a 7 passenger truck, even at 13/18 - I wish my 5.7L Tahoe could come close to that some days.

Other than some of the minor issues others have had, and a fairly significant water leak that had to be fixed twice, our truck has really settled down these last six months. The wiper motor recall is the first time I will be at the dealer for anything other than routine maintenance for quite a while. Remember, those of us with trouble free trucks read, but rarely post - not all triplets are bad, if they were, GM would have been out of business. Think about it, they have sold hundreds of thousands of these things over the last few years. Even if only a majority of them were bad, GM would be in big trouble.

ficuss

I took a weekend road trip to eastern Ohio this past weekend. I am happy to report that I had No probelms at all with my car. It cruised easily at 80 mph and kept up with a Nissan Murano at nearly 100 mph on the turnpike. Gas milage was 24 mpg. there was no road noise even at 95 mph. The car hugged the road like it was attatched to rails. The radio ran cool even when listening to the big fat liar on a.m.
 Why do I mention all this boring stuff? Because I was driving my Infiniti G35, not my 2002 TB LTZ.

hardhawk

My air suspension was adjusted for height on both sides some time ago. There are adjustments for each side. Ask your service dept. to go up the ladder at GM to have GM educate them on this.

tblazed

Took a look in my service manual. It states the ride "trim" height on the air suspenson Envoys measured between the rear axle tube and the jounce bumper should be 5.17" to 5.49". That would mean it should be within .32" or about 1/3 of an inch either side. And total trim tolerance at any point front to back should be within 1/2" of spec. My guess is, they are figuring one side is 1/2" low, and the other side is 1/2" too high, and calling that "within spec". Maybe find another GMC dealer that is willing to do some research and fix it right.

There is no specific ride height adjustment in the manual but it is easy to see how it could be done. The height sensors can be loosened and rotated to set the specified height. The manual states during replacement of a height sensor, the air suspension fuse is pulled to disable the system, the vehicle is set to the correct height, a locking pin is put through the sensor arms to hold the arm in its center position, and then the sensor is tightened down in that aligned, centered position. That aligns the center point of the sensor to the specified ride height of the vehicle. Seems easy enough. GOOD LUCK!

blckthree

I would have to look again when I get home, but I thought it said on the Michelin tires, 17 inch, that the max air pressure was 35psi. I thought I remembered looking at that twice, thinking it was low, but it has been a while now. Double check the tire, not just the door placard.

ross1962

So you're comparing a sports sedan with an SUV? I guess I'm missing the point.

01_hoe

So, if someone wanted to lower their Envoy with air suspension 1" in front with different springs, (i.e. Ground Force) could they then lower the back by the same amount or a little more to bring the vehicle back to level by adjusting the height sensors?