Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

richardcoulson

My new majestic red LTZ came in yesterday and I will be picking it up today. It does have the gasket on the tailgate. I noticed that the sticker price has gone up $255 since I ordered it a month ago. I hope the dealer sticks to the original price. If not, they will be keeping the LTZ.

cmack4

Robert115, I can see why you're bitter at GM, being that you were one of the people who had a bad engine. But do you really think that GM Management, if they knew of the problem with that particular batch of engines, would have let them go? It costs a lot more money to replace an engine then it does a block at the factory! Not to mention, the risk of popular opinion regarding reliability... Sure, some employees probably knew, but I highly doubt management knew. Personally, I blame the employees for not making management aware, whether it be direct management or 2 or 3 people up the chain!

just my .02

tblazed

I Do. I have the 3.42 gears with the G80 locking dif. No side effects that I have detected. Played with it in an ice storm in early Feb. Locks both rear wheels together very nicely as it is supposed to do, and since it is an auto-locker as opposed to a limited-slip, there is no special maintenance required as there would be in a clutch-type limited-slip. Well worth it in my opinion, especially considering how much it would cost to add it after market. You can go to Eaton's web site and check out their G80 locking dif details.

envoyowner

Guys:
I have a 2002 Envoy - super, love it. I've been compiling a list of minor whines to take to the dealership, hoping to get everything knocked out at once.

MIRRORS: I have the "wacky" outside mirror problem. Is there a part(s) that I need to request that the service manager get ahead of time (BEFORE DROPPING THE CAR AND THEN REALIZING THIS)?

HEATED SEATS: As the weather is warming, I'm noticing that the driver seat is very warm and the a/c is blasting. I think there might be something with the heated seat feature (no, I haven't hit the button with my elbow...checked!) Anyone else experience this?

GASKET: I've been reading the posts about the license plate gasket on the rear door. My Envoy does not have it. Is this something that my dealer will know about....and add at my request?

OIL CHANGE: What's the "recommended" time at which the oil should be changed. Not much highway driving....a standard city commute (STOP and go) of about 12 miles round trip. Mobil One? Do we rely on the displayed info (50% oil life left) or go by mileage?

Thank you. This message board is an invaluable source.

scottc454

You're opening up a can of worms with that oil change question.
According to the manual, don't go more than 10,000 miles regardless of what the indicator says. I just changed my oil after going around 10,000. I use Mobil One and do a lot of highway driving. The indicator was at 32% for me. Also, I will put 300,000 miles on this engine!

For your city driving, you shouldn't go to 10,000, but the indicator should take this into account and drop faster than for me. I'd think it should get to zero somewhere between 5 - 7000. Many are of the opinion that you should change the oil at 3000 no "ifs, ands, or buts." Keep in mind that these vehicles have 7 quart oil pans and that helps extend the interval. If I was to change my oil more often, I would not bother with synthetic oil.

pauleul

cmack4,

I have read most of the 4,000+ posts now. If I remember correctly, management was told about the bad engine. I agree with you it doesn't make sense why GM would still send them out, but I've now learned GM doesn't do things that make sense.

The chipping paint around the tailgate has been known by GM since around June of last year. They have only just began (last 30 days or so) to put a gasket on new production. They still tell dealers and prior owners no gasket exists (9 months later). The cost of the gasket should be less than a dollar. It appears to be a simple extrusion which can be produced in very large quantity in very little time. I know this because I'm in the gasket business and have been for 35 years. Meanwhile, GM is paying to have tailgates re-painted over and over again and are getting a bad name. How many of us owners are making our complaints known to anyone who will listen? Not good advertising for GM. Does any of that make sense?

envoyowner,

From what I seen so far, your dealer won't know anything about the gasket. If you find out different, please let us know here.

cmack4

GM definitely has trouble watching what the other hand is doing, but I think any big corporation has that problem. To me the paint problem on the body cladding around the license plate isn't that big of a deal. I have it, but I have to strain to see it at anywhere more than 2 feet away.

As far as the engines, it is a big deal, but I have to agree with gam2... they are taking quick action to fix the problem, and that's all they can do after the fact. I know with Ford, they refused to admit fault in the Firestone case, and would not issue a recall until forced into it! My brother is actually an engineer, who does grant work with Penn State and helped with the study!

Are there certain quality issues with the Triplets... Yes, but I don't think they are any more so than any other vehicle, especially a new model year vehicle! My bravada drives like a dream. It's got wonderful power, responsive steering, decent gas mileage, and options galore. So the driver mirror doesn't always reset itself every time... Eventually it will get fixed, and if it doesn't? It's no different than most of the other vehichles that never had the option to begin with!

paisan

Seems like you guys have much lower expectations than other groups, maybe it's just an American car thing, who knows...

-mike

2002slt

I have the same expectations for everything I buy. That it will work flawlessly. Unfortunately, most new market items have some bugs that need to be worked out. I knew this going in. However, I must say, this is the first vehicle I've bought new that only has one minor flaw, the issue with the rear plastic frame. I'll guarantee that most people, who own one, don't even know this problem exists. It's only because of boards like these that the word gets out. There are just as many complaints on the Explorer board, for example, as there are on this one. Nothing is built perfect every time. Not even an Isuzu .

noller2g

Do you really believe some one's dad told him about bad blocks, and he posted here?

I find it kind of funny how people will believe anything they read on these Internet boards.

For all we know, that "kid" is just a Ford salesman.

Then again, he may be who he says he is. My point is that poeple are picking up on his posts and repeating them. That alone gives him credibility (which may or may not be deserved).

I simply ask everyone to remember where we are, and not to be too trusting of folks you don't really know.

I learn a lot of valuable information here, but I always check it out personally first and never repeat it as if I know it is fact.

Great news on the gasket, I printed out the photos and will take it to my dealer. Same with the front bumber cover fix, I will print that and take it to my dealer.

WichitaGreg
2002 Bravada

gam2

Every new vehicle I've owned in the last 12 years has had problems, and that includes Toyota, Honda, and Subaru. My Honda needed a top end rebuild after 70,000 miles. Fortunately I complained about engine noise early on and Honda had to pay for the rebuild. Toyota has an engine sludge problem and is refusing to admit they are wrong, even though customers are proving them wrong. I owned an Explorer that was wrecked at the factory, fixed and then sold to me as a new vehicle. I'm surprised we don't see more problems, considering the 1000's of parts that go into a vehicle!

GAM2

iexplore2000

You wrote:

"Do you really believe some one's dad told him about bad blocks, and he posted here?"

SURE... absolutely! Why not? I am not risking anyone's job or myself for sharing that type of information. Actually, I have been a poster to this room for quite some time and several key posters in this room are quite familiar with whom I am. I have NO reason what so ever to lie about faulty engine blocks.

As a matter of fact, my dad read several posts on this forum over my shoulder concerning the triplets and even my posting about the engine blocks. I specifically asked him for his permission prior to posting the engine block info and he had no problem with it. The discussion about the engine blocks that I had with him dated back to when they first started mass producing the triplets with the 4.2L. At that time, I didn't have one so it didn't bother me, but before I purchased my 02 Envoy SLT in November 2001, I asked my dad about the quality control issues and he was pretty confident in stating that the "engine block mishappenings" should be well resolved by now.

All in all, I don't CARE what you THINK or FEEL about me posting that information here for ALL to see. The information is just that in my opinion... INFORMATION. In other words, TAKE IT or LEAVE IT. Others on this board know me well enough to know that "I ain't fabricating anything!" Besides... what's the benefit?

Also, you are correct when you said that you cannot be too trusting of people who may post information on these boards... I agree whole-heartedly but at the same time.. "A forum just isn't a forum without the input of others." If that's the case then this forum would be nonexistent because EVERYONE's LYING! But as both you and I know, this is a place for sharing information with each other that can/has had a great benefit for all. Perhaps you would feel like driving up to Saginaw, MI and cleverly disguising yourself as part of the clean-up crew so that you can gain access to the Saginaw GM Powertrain Metal Casting building located on Washington Street with hopes of gaining the inside scoop? What is the likelihood of this happening.. ZERO.. This is why I am able to post the information concerning the engine blocks because my father plays a major role in the robotic operation processing that casts these blocks. Of course no names will be given, but just as I mentioned above.. Information is just that.. Take it or LEAVE it..

Hmm... Perhaps could it be that you are one of those mysterious GM webcrawler spies sent out to try to smooze things over on these types of forums by trying to discourage belief in what information others are sharing about the/their triplets???

Just my .02 cents!



IExplore2000@aol.com

jepping

You got me convinced IExplore2000!

cmack4

iexpore2000, I don't think that anyone was throwing doubt at you personally. I think noller2g makes a good point. That is, take everything you read on these boards with a grain of salt! I don't doubt your story... I do however doubt that top management would knowingly release something that would hurt them both in reputation and financially!

paisan, I wouldn't call my expectations low. I expect a lot from my vehicle. I'm not going to take my aggression out on dealers though, who have no say in how the vehicles are manufactured! When my lower fascia had problems, I called Old's and identified how unhappy I was! I also went right to the dealer, indentified the problem, and it was promptly fixed. If GM comes out with a standard part number for the gasket, I'll gladly go to the dealer an request mine be retro-fitted. Browsing through all of the different boards for makes and models, you'll find countless problems... I don't see that as an abnormality. What I consider abnormal is dealers and manufacturers who refuse to admit they have problems!

stever

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paisan

Like you guys are willing to put up with things not working, even if they get fixed. I dunno maybe it's just my 10 year old designed vehicle with 37K miles w/o problems and my 97 rodeo that went 120K w/o seeing a dealer once. I'm spoiled Just seems that the GM and Ford guys are extremely "accepting" of less than perfect quality.

-mike

envoyenvy1

Well based on some of the feedback I got about the loud wind noise, I went out and checked every seal and gasket. Got to the rear doors, touched (yes just touched) the seals and they fell off. Both doors!!!!
Needless to say I went back to the dealer and once again explained the wind noise problem. He again explained they had already checked it (last trip in) andd found no problems.
I then showed him the rear door seals. He didn't have much to say after that. I did want to share with everyone that I spoke to the guy replacing the seals, he said they don't glue them on, they're pressed on (some special device).

I also checked Edmunds owner reviews of the Envoy and guess what, there are at least 4 postings with the same problem (rear door seals).
Anyone having wind noise problems might want to check this.

While I was at the dealer I asked them to also re-check the fan noise/transmission problem and that there had been some TSB's posted about the problem. They called later and said no problem was found. I asked about the TSB's and they said there wasn't any for the Envoy about fans. At this point I logged on to the NHTSA site printed a copy of the TSB's and faxed them to the dealership. I asked them to check their fax for the TSB's since it appears customers have better access than GMC dealerships.
It amazing how eager dealers are while their taking your money, but how you have to convince them you have a real problem later on......

2002slt

I thought I'd check out the Isuzu Trooper board. I just wanted to see what they could possibly be posting, because their trucks don't have any problems. I was quite surprised to find that some owners actually had some. Transmission problems, oil burning, paint chipping, etc... Doesn't sound to me like "perfect quality".

ficuss

ay paisan: My mother has a wooden spoon to stir the pot when making her sauce. From now on, I'll refer to it as the "Paisan". This forum has been the most helpful web site I've used for the past year. The information and opinions shared here have been posted and read with the knowledge that we are not all car experts. When we share experiences such as engine failures, yes I had one of the engine flops, or wandering mirrors, we're doing only that, sharing comments. There has not been a car built that has been perfect, import or domestic. I have had Honda Accords that needed air conditioner work every spring, Maximas that needed radio antennas replaced, Fords that needed ignition mudules every 10k miles, Dodges that had lousy chokes, Oldsmobiles with chevy engines and so on. The triplets are just the most recent trucks to have problems. The only difference is that we now have the internet to share the problems with others. Check some of the other Edmunds forums, we're not alone.

paisan

Sorry didn't mean to stir the pot. I was just amazed at how many major failures and such there were is all.

Just an FYI there are no tranny problems (and if there were it's a GM tranny)

Don't take offense, I don't mean it as a diss, just suprised is all.

-mike

tlauro

I understand your point but have to say that I don't think there are that many people here who will take anyone's comments as fact without some grain of self reseach and assurance.

My advice on this subject would be to investigate and get some insight on who people are by communicating with them before discrediting or believing anything. Certainly don't try and discredit them first.

Heck, I was the very first back last June to discuss the Twin Turbo version that I actually rode in down in Dayton Ohio where a good friend of mine who's father was involved in the project had the vehicle for several weeks while road testing was done on the suspension. No one believed me back then...but then who am I? Just some 32 year old ex-car guy who grew up in the business and who plays at the track.

tim
1999 GTP @ 13.689
2000 Alero "GT" @ 15.591
2002 Trailblazer LTZ @ 15.675

YOU WROTE:
"Do you really believe some one's dad told him about bad blocks, and he posted here?
I find it kind of funny how people will believe anything they read on these Internet boards.
For all we know, that "kid" is just a Ford salesman.
Then again, he may be who he says he is. My point is that poeple are picking up on his posts and repeating them. That alone gives him credibility (which may or may not be deserved)."

pauleul

I have no problem with the fact that problems exist on a new model. I don't expect perfection but I do expect a known problem to be fixed. If not, GM should advertise "for sale - as is".

I have a Maroon Envoy and I can see the problem from far more than two feet away. I didn't know of the problem until the first time I washed the vehicle (2nd day I had it).

GM continues to deny the inexpensive gasket fix even exists. They deny it to owners and to the dealers who are only trying to take care of their customers. That's total bull. Maybe we should all go to dealers where new production models just coming in have the gasket, rip it off and use it on our vehicles. According to GM, it isn't there anyway so they shouldn't care.

A friend explained the logic behind why GM is doing this. There are many people who don't care about the chipping and are more than willing to accept an inferior product. Some can't see it or don't notice it as much because of the color of their vehicle. Some probably think it's wax in the crack. Some may not realize the problem until it actually rusts. If GM sends out a gasket to the dealers to fix the problem, they will have to issue a bulletin or recall which could/will cost them more money in the long run. If people get a recall notice, they will be more likely to get the fix and many dealers would also point out the fix is needed when doing regular service. It's cheaper to repaint and put 3m clear tape on for the people who complain because they will have far fewer repairs to deal with. It's a bad gamble on GM's part in my opinion.

So far I have fixed the rear door seals and headliner on mine but haven't seen any of the other problems listed on this forum.

It's no wonder it's so easy for foreign makers to produce higher quality vehicles.

tlauro

No flame intended, but "Oh yes they would!"

Trust me..even on the internet....I grew up in the car business. My family had three dealerships with Olds, Caddy and GMC's combined.....from the 70's through the late 80's I was part of them and yes....GM along with my current world of IT Manufacturers always force new product out with bugs. Some big...some small. I don't doubt it for a moment. Even with Ford/Firestone right around the corner...they will turn a blind eye. Some will get noticed right away like the chipping paint on the Triplets others won't.

The Quad Four. Horrible head design...destined to fail in most cases. Not all will, but a large number sure did/will. But hey....it takes 40k minimum to occur. The 3.1l v6 in 94...3100's...came with defective plastic valve covers....but hey....how many know? GM knew about both but did they do anything? not until the Quad was redesigned many, many years later and the valve covers leaking caused an owner to complain. How many did? Not that many. Most are dealing with it today.

YOU WROTE:
" I do however doubt that top management would knowingly release something that would hurt them both in reputation and financially! "

richardcoulson

I picked up my majestic red ltz tonight. So far the build quality seems good. All the body panels and hood seem to line up and I have the gasket on the rear hatch. No flaws in the interior. The only complaint so far is that with the rear seats down, I can't put my drivers seat back far enough. I am already getting better gas mileage that my jeep liberty. However, my liberty seems like a tight sports car compared to the trailblazer.

iexplore2000

In my own personal opinion, I cannot see a reason why GM, Ford or anyone else for that matter would NOT release there vehicle intentionally knowing that there "could" be a few slight bugs in the design, etc? They have a major opportunity to capture the market with their product at their anticipated launch time! Just think.. the new Ford Explorer was on the road prior to the launch of the triplets. IF GM haulted production because of a few anticipated "bugs," FORD could easily gain the possible SUV sales that could have belonged to GM. IMO it's a BIG numbers game. Just my .02 cents..

Also, here is just an idea for everyone to ponder. Could it possibly be the GM is intentionally playing "possum" on the license plate gasket until they are fully capable of knowing that their proposed solution (new gasket around the frame) will correctly resolve the problem? Heck.. maybe they want to test the new gaskets to see how well they will hold up before initiating a mass recall for this particular problem? I dunno.. I could very well be wrong, but it seems that from the dollars and cents standpoint, playing possum on their end might be the intelligent thing to do until they know for sure that the designed gasket will last/work as long as the triplets are on the road?? Just an idea..

Also.. on tlauro's comment.. YES.. the Quad 4 engine was a BIG problem for GM. Personally, I was one of those individuals that had the head problems at less than 20K in addition to several others friends of mine.

Oh well.. no one's perfect.. BUT I do LOVE MY 02 ENVOY SLT!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

pauleul

GM has been getting complaints since at least June of 2001. Go back into the posts here and you'll see. Possum for 10 months?

They have the fix and are putting them on current production. As a test? Why? This is not a major problem that is difficult to fix. As I stated earlier, I've been in the gasket business for over 35 years. The fix they are now using will do the job, no problem. The die is now built and the extrusion has now been received. Let current owners have it. I'd even be happy to put it on myself. It's less than a 30 minute job. I'd also be happy to be a test case if GM were doing anything like you implied. If it wasn't for the fact I'd have to pay a couple hundred for the die and buy a minimum of 1000 feet or so, I'd order it myself from one of the extruders in California.

I'm surprised at some of the excuses people have come up with for GM on this forum. Guess that's what you call "customer loyalty".

Again, I don't expect perfection, just a little honesty, integrety and an ounce or two of customer service.

I know if I treated my customers the way GM is treating theirs, I'd be out of business.

Probably expecting too much, huh?

biggie4852

I believe that we who use this BB are knowledgeable and discerning consumer. Who read and post for first hand info from other user about their trucks without any agenda. And who are proud of their purchase and want to maximize the value there of. We are more vocal on defects or what is perceived as badly produce merchandise.
But maybe we should analyze this using simple algebra. Their 4852 post on this board so far and maybe half are citing problems or complaint.
The rest speak on other issue or just complementary comment about there triplet. The x factor is how many of trucks will chevy produce 200,000-300,000 est. Now my point is all the other owner who are totally happy with there trucks an who will never post . Are we just a vocal small minority with issues or just like to talk about our trucks. lol I am not making light of any ones problem {my window rubs when it goes up on the driver side and the dealer just shake his head}, If you just read this board you would be leery of a triplet.
So just a though maybe if you always see bad news it tend to put a dark cloud your perception. I am not paid nor work for GM or and of it's subsidiary. Just love my truck.

medolark

I just wondered if you had any new input on this issue - you and I seem to be the only two Envoy owners that have commented on it. For your info, I took my Envoy in today for a first oil change and also asked them to look into the cold accleration concern. Well, I got the "could not reproduce problem" story. However, I really believe the dealer made an honest attempt to find anything wrong. The service advisor test drove (He has an Envoy himself) then they did the scans looking for trouble codes and found nothing. The service advisor said it might be the fan needing to warm up a bit before it would break loose at low rpm. Note - there are some TSB's about fan problems, and some people on this board claim their fan is electronically controlled, but I am certain mine is simple hydraulic type. So I'm not sure what to make of it. How is your's doing?

iexplore2000

Pauleul,

Believe me.. I feel your pain when it comes down to customer service. I myself tend to take on the "perfectionist" type of model myself, so believe me when I say that it definitely "pains me" to see that the simple issues that we speak to hear on this forum are not being addressed by GM. Heck, I just bought my parents the new Sears Elite HE3 front load washer and dryer that you see advertised on TV for approximately $3,000 including the pedestals and can you believe that we are on our THIRD washer and dryer set since this past x-mas due to manufacturing defects that I am just not willing to accept? Unfortunately getting the models replaced has been such a tooth pulling exercise similar to that many of us are experiencing in this forum with the triplets, but I've learned persistence is key.. at least with Sears.

GM on the other hand is a different beast.. I would never stoop so low as to find myself making excuses for GM, especially when the problem affects me directly. My previous post simply involved me playing devils advocate in order to try to gain some idea(s) as to why GM won't resolve the gasket issue right away.

I probably feel the way that you do when you make a major purchase in life. You want everything perfect (in a sense). Unfortunately, perfect is not what we (triplet owners) have experienced with GM but we just have to keep trying. Our individual persistence and loyalty to this forum has paid off for many of us! Customer Service is key in these matters and unfortunately many of us have been robbed! On the other hand... expecting too much out of customer service... NO.. I don't think so. I think that for our hard earned $$$'s spent, we deserved to be treated with respect without having to drive a Lexus or Mercedes to get the Red Carpet treatment.

Just my .02 cents again.. sorry if my previous message came across with the wrong meaning, but I am just like each of you (ha,ha).. standing on the sidewalk yelling at the glass building but at the same time, giving credit when credit is due!

BTW: Anyone experiencing the "wandering mirror" problem after having each one replaced? For some strange reason, my driver's side mirror is starting to get that nervous twitch again after being replaced this past December?? Any ideas?

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

iexplore2000

Medolark,

Actually, I have not yet had my servicing dealer look into this problem BUT my vehicle still has that cold morning hesitation before it get's going. Sometimes I just PUNCH it to get past the gentle cold acceleration hesitation problem but still that's not an answer.

I am going back to Columbus this weekend to stay with my best friend who just bought a 02 Green Envoy SLT like mine last month. I will drive his this weekend to see if he has the hesitation problem as well. The only time that I ever notice the problem is first thing in the morning when the engine is bitterly cold. The problem never reproduces when the engine is warm, perhaps this is why the dealer couldn't reproduce the problem?

Whenever I decide to take mine in, I am going to have them keep it overnight and then go on the test drive with them first thing in the morning. I am quite sure that with me in the car attesting to everything, they cannot simply write "Unable to Duplicate Problem" on my work order.. ha, ha.

Oh yeah.. Once I put the car in neutral and gently revved the engine and it didn't hesitate.. It seems as if the hesitation is only when the tranny is engaged in the Drive position? Try this one your self to see if you get engine hesitation with a gentle rev in Neutral after backing out of your driveway. Also, my engine fan RARELY ever comes on? I was quite surprised myself after reading the previous postings about the fan noise and problems? Mine never comes on in the mornings.. last week I dropped off my two nephews at the outdoor skate park in the bitter cold and decided to stay and watch a DVD movie curled up in the backseat with a blanket and the engine running for heat. This lasted for about 2hr30 min and once the kids were in the car and we were pulling off, my fan revved for a bit and then quieted down around 20 mph. That was really one of the few times that I have ever heard it engaged? Hmmmm

Good Luck,

IExplore2000@aol.com

envoy2002

HA! You really think I'm going to let YOU jinx MY wonderful Polo Green Metallic Envoy??? You better take a hotel buddy, cause you ain't gettin' anywhere near my vehicle! ....By the way --- Roofrack removal is quite easy, however driving from Columbus OH to Dayton OH (~70 miles freeway) I really didn't notice much of a change in wind noise. Then again, I may not even notice a "cold acceleration" problem either. At least compared to my ex- 2000 Jeep GCL, there was no engine noise to drown out the wind noise.

mrau

..... Last night I folded my back seats down to load some cargo. I moved the passenger front seat all the way forward to make room. When I flipped the rear seat bottom (bigger half, passenger side) I noticed it rubbed against the rear of the center console. No damage (this time), but it left an indentation on the leather seat from the cigarette lighter plug cover that is in the console. I have folded the seat in the past and not had this happen, but this was first time I moved front seat all the way up.
Just a warning to others when folding the seat. Maybe it is just my Envoy, but check before you do it.

Mike

baredogg

The general makes many fine vehicles but just how many? the Canadian truck facility will produce in excess of 300,000 vehicles alone. So problems really you should see the manufacturing variables that they deal with it would probably shock you. So all the best and good luck with the new toy.

jp

archdukerizzo

I have the same problem with my Bravada.
GM said it's the way the seats were designed and there's nothing they can do about it.
It's a over looked design flaw.

pcrisp

I just took my Bravada in today to have the passenger mirror replaced, and I informed them of the gasket for the rear hatch. I even printed out the pictures and also explained that they have an Envoy on their lot with the gasket in place. Fortunately they (Matthews Buick - Marion, Indiana) are always VERY good with customer service, so they have been and still are investigating how to order one for me. They called 1 hour after I dropped it off and informed me that GM doesn't even show that it exists. Of course they were checking all of the parts info, which GM may not even have a part number for it. I asked them to contact GM and force the issue, and they seemed happy to do that for me. I told them in advance that GM would deny it existing so now my dealer feels somewhat miffed that GM is avoiding these problems. I also had to inform them on how to fix the wheel bearing squeal a while back. Thanks to this board, I may actually get these problems fixed!

tblazed

That's what I thought too for 3 months until a friend that just bought a TB pointed out the "actuator" electrical controller on the front of the fan clutch. Hard to see at first but there is definitely a controller with wires connected to it on the front of the fan clutch. I kept reading posts about "re-programming" for the fan and could not figure how that would effect a clutch-type fan. They have replaced that old spiral thermal coil that used to be on fan clutches with an electrical control. (Hope it's reliable 'cause I bet it's expensive when it finally wears out!)

mytrip2

The engine fan on the triplets is computer controlled. I thought the same thing you do,till I decided to check it out. There is a four wire connector mounted on the upper left raditor housing that terminates into a electronic device that fits in the center of the fan clutch hub. Hard to see unless you use a small inspection mirror.Hope this matter is finally cleared up.

pauleul

iexplore2000,

I think I must have done a poor job of trying to make my point here.

I'm not asking for a perfect truck - I know GM can't do that.

I'm not asking for GM to take back the one I have and give me a new one. I like the truck!

I'm not asking GM to repaint the tailgate. They actually will do that.

I'm not at all unhappy with the truck itself (at least not yet, I only have 500 miles on it). That may change if I start having mirror, engine, fan, etc. problems.

I'm not asking them to engineer a fix for the tailgate gasket problem. They already did that.

I'm only asking for them to admit the problem exists and give me a gasket (the fix they themselves are already using on new production). Actually, I don't even care if they admit the problem exists. They can play their game with everyone who is willing to accept their lies.

So, is that really asking too much?

pcrisp,

Good luck to you and your dealer. Please post the results of your/their struggle.

previousamigo

I have had my TB LS for 4 months (4000 miles)and have the loose front bumper and a rattling headliner. It looks like the middle screw/fasterner was not installed in the top of the plastic bumper and now it is warping upwards in the middle. The headliner is squeaking/rattling and I don't have the Bose stereo to drown it out. What is the fix for the loose headliner to stop the annoying rattle? I intentionally bought the LS for less electrical features that always seem to go bad. Tim has a a great website and I shaved off the emblems from the back as he described. I have not gone to the dealer yet and wanted to wait until the change oil light comes on for less trips. Can I fix the headliner and how?

pauleul

Headliner fix is an easy one. In the center of the truck just behing the front seats, drill a 1/4" hole through the headliner and roof. Then use a galvanized bolt, washer and of course a gasket available at any GM dealer. No more rattle.

If you feel that is too drastic a fix, try pushing up on the headliner in that same area. I found there is (I believe) velcro in that area. It worked for me, but then how long it will stay is an unknown at this time.

You're right on with the Bose stereo, that sucker will drown out any rattle and cause a few more on it's own.

;>)

noller2g

You see...I posted a long time ago about the electronic fan clutch. Some folks on here didn't believe me.

It's ok to not believe folks, and to not repeat that which you do not know for sure is true.

That's all I'm trying to say.

Greg
Wichita
2002 Bravada

cmack4

Try some of the heavy duty hook and loop (velcro) tape from Radio Shack. It's the strongest stuff around, and some of the other users here have stated that it does indeed work!

baredogg

Has anyone towed a trailer weight in excess of 3500 lbs with a bravada? Well I just did and the experiance was somewhat wierd. Between 1700 - 2200 rpm in either 3rd or 4th there was a irratick behavior similar to a miss/downshift/upshift. Took it to dealer trailer and all had them tech II it while driving no slippage no shifting no missing but still irratic. Workorder written and sent to tech centre for help service manager knows whats happening but at a loss as to what it is. Any help appreciated thanks.jp

2002slt

I don't have my manual handy, but I believe it states to tow in 3rd gear. I haven't towed anything with my Envoy yet, but my '98 Bravada had to be in 3rd. Otherwise the transmission could overheat from excessive downshifting, similar to what you're saying.

scottc454

I just had my fan clutch replaced. It most definitely is electronically controlled.
This morning the fan did not come on when I started it up.
This is good.

flopes

I ran into the same problem with my SLT this weekend. Only with the driver's side being the larger portion of the rear seats. It really put a "nice" indentation in the leather. I think I'll just grab one of the small rear mats and put it front of the rear console controls before I put the rear seats up. Unless GM comes up with a fix.

medolark

tblazed and mytrip2

Thanks for straightening me out. It is hard to see the connection and I never would have guessed the connection comes into the fan clutch between the radiator and the fan. OK - now I believe the TSB that is out there might be applicable. I'm going to get a copy and take it to my service advisor.

envoyenvy1

Well I finally got my car back from the dealer as I had earlier posted. Wind noise problem and the fan noise/acceleration problem. As I mentioned I had to prove there was a wind noise problem (seals falling off) that was pretty easy, but convincing them about this fan noise/transmission/acceleration problem was a whole different issue.

I'd asked to have them check the TSB's, which they said they couldn't find any, then I faxed them a copy, which they said wouldn't impact the transmission performance and no errors could be found on the computer readout.

So I brought down about two pages worth of everyones comments (on this board) who were having the same problem. The service mgr. got real interested and suddenly they found a programming fix!!! Here's a copy of the service info/programming data for everyone......

# ID Description
1. 12575262 new software to correct case learn issue
2. 12575727 new calibration to correct problem
3. 12575341 new calibration to address delay in transmission downshifting
4. 09351581 speedometer calibration
5. 12576361 enhance ev fan calibration for cooling fan noise reduction
6. 12571574 electronic throttle control calibration

Not only did the noise and acceleration problem go away, it actually shifts better now also.
I hope this can help others.......Your post were instrumental in getting the dealer to search further into this problem and finally get it resolved... Thanks everyone

2002slt

Just checked the manual, and it indeed says to use third gear.

pauleul

For any who care.

My dealer just got a new Envoy shipment today. He now has the ability to touch, feel and smell the real thing (a gasket). Of course, GM still tells him their isn't a part number he can order to get the gasket. He has found out that there has been a revised part number for the plastic pocket itself and is going to order one of those. His theory is, the gasket will now come with it.

If only GM was willing to try to satisfy their customers like my dealer is. At least some GM dealers know how to keep customers!

I'll post what the outcome is when I find out.