Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

declansdad

If you have ruled out the heat shields, take a listen (and look) at the muffler. It could be a loose baffle inside of the muffler. That happened to me once before with my old car.

Good luck.

Michael

jfl

The timing belt is replaced at 105k. There have been various recommendations and thoughts on other preventative items that could be done at the same time.

Anyone care to summarize the list?

Thanks,

Jim

hammerhead

Anyone aware of any problems from just taking the thing off? Mine's torn loose at a couple attachment points & buzzes/vibrates a bit as a result. I rarely if ever go off-road, and certainly not in the brambles where I'd have to worry about a fire hazard (wouldn't THAT be embarrassing!?)

Cheers!
Paul

declansdad

I've had my heat shield removed by the dealer b/c they kept coming loose. To date, not one problem.

Michael

paisan

You come off as "i work 60hrs a week, so I can't be bothered with a dealership that doesn't wait on me hand and foot" To which I responded that you aren't the only person working 60hrs a week.

As for service, if you don't like the service, GO TO A DIFFERENT DEALER or GO TO A DIFFERENT BRAND of car.

While in utopia all dealers for all makes and models would have equal levels of customer support, it's just not based in reality...

-mike

ballistic

Nowhere did I even hint that I'm the only person who works 60 hour weeks, so shove that line.

If others in similar circumstances don't mind having their dealers lie to them and waste their time, that's for them to decide. I already know what I think of it. I don't need you telling me whether my conclusion fits your world view or not.

I'll be entirely disregarding anything you write in the future. Kindly do likewise.

paisan

Live in your utopia and I'll live in the real world!

-mike

Karen_S

I'm glad you two came to an understanding of sorts. Time to move on to more beneficial exchanges and show new members how helpful we can be.

ateixeira

Paul: my concern would be a lot of slow speed idling and maybe off road where you drive over dry leaves that might catch fire from a red-hot exhaust or something.

Unlikely, I know.

-juice

jnnt29

Hi all. I'm new to the boards and would like to share my experience with my 03 XS. After 21k miles my Forester started tapping when the weather was cold, (below 32). At first I thought it was just that the engine needed to warm up and it would initially quiet down. But after a month it seemed to get louder until it was present all the time. When I bought it to the Dealer they said that it was normal noise for the engine. So I did some research on the internet and found someone’s web site that detailed the piston slap and how the dealer would respond and the proper steps to take to ensure the engine was fixed. It took only a month of persistence with the dealer to have them replace the short block with the countermeasure pistons with longer skirts. But that was only after the Subaru tech heard the sound when I took him for a test drive and had the Factory rep confirm the problem. What they told me was that the knock sensor would retard the timing because of the piston slap and would effect performance. I have put 2000 mile on the new block and it is quiet. I guess the point is that when I bought the Forester it didn’t make any sound and then it did. Had the noise been present and I heard it from the start then no harm no foul. The key is to have the service bulletins with you, document all contact with the dealer and make sure the hear what you hear.

once_for_all

alright, what are the service bulletins that I might need? My '03 XS has 19k, no piston slap except once on a cold morning. But, better to get the info now that try to find it in a couple years.

Thanks,

John

joybell

My Forester 2003 2.5x MT is 9 months old. When it was about 2 months old I had problems with it. It idled roughly (rpms going up and down), and also occassionally but not always stalled on startup. The dealer "cleaned the idle valve" and told me that I wasn't driving it enough. It had 2,200kms at that time. Now it has almost 7,000kms and it's starting all over again. How many times will the dealer "fix" this problem under warranty? Can I expect this problem every 6 months?

paisan

and it was fine for 6 months. So IMHO, they may need to clean it again or perhaps replace the valve. Unfortunately with all the electronics and valves parts in cars these days you sometimes need to test out various fixes before the correct one is found. It's under warranty, don't sweat it.

How many times will the dealer "fix" this problem under warranty?
They only fixed it 1x, cut them some slack! They'll fix it as many times as it takes to get it working.

-mike

joybell

What I meant is, if you have a reoccuring problem that started when the car was under warranty, will they continue to fix the same problem when the car is out of warranty? Since I am being told that this problem is a result of not driving the Forester enough (though I have doubts) then this will be a reoccuring problem even when the warranty is finished.

ateixeira

I don't think they'll try the same fix, they'll probably go deeper and try a more robust fix this time.

Give them 3 strikes, then I think you have enough ground to demand a longer warranty on the affected parts. If you want, document it with 800-SUBARU3.

And be nice, what do they say about bees going to honey vs. vinegar?

-juice

paisan

Replaced under warranty or paid repair carry a 1 year 12K mile warranty on them. So....if it breaks every 6 months, then it will continue to be covered under warranty. At least the USDM works that way, not sure about the 51st state's warranty coverage though.

-mike

ozman62

Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty well convinced that the noise is caused by the muffler, too. It's probably on its last few thousand miles.
Owen

fargfam

Just a quick question on waxing, I have a java black 03 Forester xs that was recently washed during an oil change at the local dealership. First off, I never have them wash my car but failed to tell them this after dropping it off. LSS, they did a horrible job on the wash. It looks like they just took a dry towel to a dirty car. Any ways, can the light scratches be waxed out and is it possible to restore the original, shiny new finish? Would waxing make it worse? With little waxing experience, should I have it professionally detailed? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

andmoon

Matt,
It's all a matter of time and money. If you have the time I'd say anyone should be able to get an 03 paint to look great. You can wash and wax or go for the cleaner, sealer and wax. I advise against using a power orbiter if you have not used one before...it isn't hard but you can do damage so it's best to have someone show you first.
Don

stevek

is to clay the car, it will not remove scratches but will remove all particles from the paint and mak eit look like glass

mrk610

Question for you .Did the dealer replace the whole short block or just replace the pistons with the redesigned pistons . I was told that they are only replacing the pistons . I had mine donw 2k miles ago with the new pistons . I still get very faint knocking on cold mornings ,but quickly goes away.

Mike k

[Deleted User]

The only way to "remove" scratches is to buff the surface until it is as low as the deepest scratch, just like when you fine sand wood. If you choose to do this, and you're certain the dealer caused the problem, then they should be responsible for correcting it. Just make sure they have an experienced detailer do the work since it's quite easy to burn right through paint with buffing compounds.

An alternative is to try to fill the scratches. A quality carnuba wax can help fill in the scratches and mask the problem. That only goes so far, though, especially with dark paint.

Waxing the car yourself does not take a lot of skill and is something you should learn to do anyway. Carnuba wax has a 3-month life on average, so you'll want to wax 4 times a year to keep the finish looking new. Everyone has their own preference for waxes; Meguiars is my favorite natural carnuba wax.

If you do have the car detailed and they take out the scratches, then I would recommend starting to wax with synthetic Klasse wax. It'll last 6 months and takes half the time/energy to apply.

Good luck with this.

fargfam

I'm always amazed with the wealth of information I receive. I'm not quite sure how I'll proceed until I thoroughly clean the car this weekend and further inspect. I might be able to convince the dealer that they are at fault, but it was over a week ago. All I know is that when the sun shines on the finish the scratches are more noticeable.

Oh the joys of owning a black car;>)

vetmats

I have a couple of questions:

1. What exactly does it mean to "clay a car" ?

2. Where can I get the Meguiars or the Klasse car waxes?

Thanks,

[Deleted User]

1) "clay a car" refers to applying a detailing product known as a clay bar. The product is literally a small bar of special clay that picks up foreign material from the surface of the paint. It's almost like rubbing an eraser on your paint. Detailing mist is used as lubrication to prevent scratches. Almost every car could use a regular claying. For instance, if a car is shipped via railroad, small particles of iron will land on the paint (the air around rail lines ALWAYS has iron floating around when a train passes). Those iron particles will imbed themselves in the paint and start to rust if not removed. Clay bar is perfect for removing that kind of foreign matter. Even paint overspray can be rubbed away with clay bar. Check your local autoparts store for the product; Mothers has a box that includes the clay bar, detailing mist, and a small bottle of wax for about $15.

2) Consumer-grade Meguiars can be found in a number of places, like auto parts stores, super store centers, etc... http://www.meguiars.com will let you search for stores that carry the professional stuff, and help you pick which product is best for you. Klasse is Internet-only; one source is http://www.properautocare.com/

jnnt29

John, here are the two links that I found on which steps you should take to have SOA recognize the piston slap. What I did was create a note book with copies of all of the service invoices I had. It was tabbed by SOA recommended service intervals and also inclued the service notices as well. I also was very calm and professional with the service rep as well. These two sites are from a search I did on Excite (”Subaru engine noises”).

1. Service Notices, Press Releases, and Recalls
... The Subaru Technical Helpline and our CDS department continue to ... period, the owner/technician may hear a noise/buzzing coming from the engine compartment...
http://www.toad.net/~rrubel/bulletin.html

2. Subaru Noises
... state the sound is "normal."; Detrimental effects: SOA has said that the noise causes no engine problems or abnormal engine wear; Subaru engine expert CCR ...
http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~dwhite/pages/subnoises.html

Mike K, the SOA Factory Rep told me, when I questioned him, that when the sort block is replace it has the new longer skirts and countermeasure pistons in it. I haven’t had any tapping since the fix and I listen very closely at every start. The repair was 1.5 months and 2k miles ago. JT

once_for_all

after a quick scan, it looks like these references refer to the ancient phase I 2.5 liter. I didn't seen anything for the current generation 2.5 Phase II.

John.

vetmats

tyguy,
   Thanks for the info!

zman3

Ancient phase I 2.5 liter??? I suddenly feel pretty good about my '98 Outback and it's "ancient" engine.

ateixeira

It was last used in 1999 on the Legacy and Outback lines.

Forester and Impreza went to the Phase II SOHC engine in 1999, but OB and Leg waited for 2000, with the redesign.

-juice

p0926

vetmats- FYI, I was skeptical at first about the benefits of claying (also not having heard of it previously). However, the results are tangible. All you have to do is clay a body panel then rub your hand over it and an adjacent un-clayed panel and compare the difference. The clayed panel will feel incredibly smooth in comparison (this holds true for even a new car).

-Frank P.

jnnt29

John, you were correct that the service bulletins that I used were from the old Phase 1-2.5l, but it gave me a place to start. Along with the SOA End wrench write ups, (see the below link) I was able to identify the problem and understand what steps the service department would take to arrive at the point of replacing the short block. These End wrench narratives describe the engine noise possibly coming from different things, from the knock sensor, the timing belt tensioner and so on. They also say that some tapping is normal at a cold start. But in my case the sound never went away. The sound would quiet down, but under a strain the tapping became more pronounced. I’m not a mechanic, but I did my best to research the problem in order to remedy my situation and I am only trying to share with the group how I arrived there. Hope that it helps. JT

The End Wrench From Subaru - Archives
Engine Maintenance Fall, 2002 Long vehicle service life and reliable performance depend on the owner’s willingness to adhere to a schedule of regular maintenance. This article summarizes key ... ... Fall, 2002. Subaru engines offer excellent service life. ... We’ll show you how a special tool makes valve adjustment on this engine a little easier. Engine Noises When Cold ...
http://www.endwrench.com/archive/syseng.html

eelp

When my Impreza comes to a hard stop, the engines dies (one can see the revs drop, then zero). Rolling to an easy stop idles ok engine doesn't kill. The car runs fine otherwise. After its warmed up it reacts better, sometime still dies. Just got it smogged,no problems. New plugs, fuel filter, cleaned throttle body, air flow meter, cleaned and check all grounds. ANY SUGGESTIONS, A $300 THROTTLE BODY SENSOR? $400 AIR FLOW REGULATOR? THANKS

jfl

Popping Out Of Fifth Gear
Some 1999 and 2000 Legacy and Forester vehicles may intermittently pop out of fifth gear when coasting. The cause may be a loose main shaft nut. In some cases, all that maybe necessary to repair the transmission is to replace the nut, torque to specifications and stake the nut. In other cases, damage to the hub and syncro assembly may be found.

I found the above comment on endwrench (pg 30).
http://endwrench.com/pdf/summer2003/INSIDERI.PDF

It describes exactly the problem I'm having with my 2000 Legacy. Has anyone else encountered this and what did it cost to repair?

You may email me directly if you prefer.

Thanks,

Jim

ateixeira

Worn first gear synchro I believe. Call 800-SUBARU3 and see if they'll cover it.

eelp: try resetting the ECU first. The idle is controlled by the ECU, so I don't think you can adjust it.

-juice

once_for_all

I understand the situation. But, in your post #3086 you indicated that you have an '03 Forester XS. And, later you indicate that you used the old Phase 1 tech bulletins to get a new short block for your Phase 2 engine. I can't imagine that the service manager would have agreed that the Phase 1 bulletins applied to your Phase 2 engine. Also, I haven't seen any type of tech bulletins relating to the Phase 2 engine. Just wondering, I wanted to be prepared in case my '03 has a problem. Perhaps your engine was suffering from something other than the short piston skirt problem mentioned in the bulletins.

John

andmoon

I just got a recall letter concerning my 03 wrx.
It has something to do with the cruise control wire sticking. Does anyone know if there is a way to actually see the fix procedure listed somewhere. The description of the fix sounded simple so if it can save me a trip to the dealer, I would rather fix it myself.
Don

ateixeira

You want it registered, though. Later if you sell the carfax report might show a recall was not fixed, and you might lose a buyer.

-juice

subaru_team

at the dealership. Not only would they put the clip on the car, there is a sticker that goes under the hood so future buyers know it was done and we can close it out of the system so you don't get hounded with "reminder" letters from us. Since it is a safety recall, I'd recommend getting it addressed sooner rather than later.

Patti

fibber2

I began the trek this weekend, getting done the fuel filter, oil change, trans fluid, front differential, tire rotation (snows off), suspension lube, boots inspect & brake inspect.

Still to go:
plugs, air filter, rear diff, coolant flush, brake flush, pcv, timing belt inspect.

Yes, I will have to pull the tires again to do the brake flush, but I ran short on time & wanted to get the snows off (will be in the 80's here today). I spray all of the bushings with white lith grease when I have the wheels off (remember to cover the disks...). I have little nice to say about the center diff change - drain plug is tough to get to, fill tube & dip stick tough to get to, & 80w-90 stinks!

OK, Question on procedure: The timing belt cover is split, with what looks like a short section on the drives side. Take this off, and rotate the engine by hand to inspect the belt?

Thanks,

Steve

PS: I took plenty of pictures and am thinking about putting together a comprehensive DIY powerpoint presentation. Any thoughts about where to place it for general access? We need an on-line library for this stuff.

ateixeira

Man, you're ahead of me. I thought about starting mine but the grass looked awfully tall.

Belts I usually don't mess with.

-juice

atomic_robot

Patti- wanted to update you on the the situation with my '01 OBW (rust inside hood seam).

4/2: I talked to Fred at SOA and he advised me to have my dealer check it out (using a previous case number 586694).

4/9: Had the car in for a tuneup and the dealer (Ganley East- Wickliffe, OH) determined that there was a bad weld which had allowed moisture to collect inside the hood causing the rust. They said it was definitely a warranty issue, but had to put a call in to the district manager before they could proceed with any repair.

4/12: Got a message that the dealer had talked to someone and there might be an issue because I'm not the original owner of the car. My dealer is still waiting for a determination from some higher authority, but didn't believe that should be a factor.

Haven't heard anything since then- maybe people have been on vacation like I was last week. If you get a chance to look at the case I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks!

-Chad

jnnt29

John, sorry I've been away for a few days. The problem was definitely a piston slap. I had more then one mechanic check it to insure that I was going in the right direction. As far as the TSB’s from the phase 1 2.5L, I guess it was the symptoms that presented themselves to the Service Mgr and the Factory Rep that sealed the engine repair. JT

paisan

Plugs: remove the airbox, intake plumbing, battery, and washer bottle.

Timing Belt: remove the small section of cover, pull the "airbag/ignition" fuse on the fuse panel inside the car and inspect, crank, inspect, crank do it about 3 or 4 times and you'll see the whole belt.

-mike

jfl

I believe you can also remove the plugs and manually rotate the engine to check the belt.

Jim

hondafriek

Me to it Jim, especially if you are changing the plugs at the same time. It takes the compression load off the engine when you are turning it over.

  Cheers Pat.

locke2c

it would be kinda tough to inspect the belt properly when it's spinning three or four hundred rpm.

paisan

You crank the engine, inspect, crank, inspect, crank inspect, til you've seen the whole belt...

-mike

locke2c

and what determines where the engine stops and if you've inspected the whole thing? chance?

c_hunter

Uh, I think the idea is to turn the engine manually, with a wrench on the crank pulley. I'm sure that's what Mike and Pat are talking about (and it's the only reason to take the plugs out to make it turn easier).

Craig