Toyota Prius

backy

Compact on the outside, mid-sized (just barely) on the inside.

heyjewel

"Some of those comments on Prius software problems sound awfully like plants from competitors or people that just dont like Toyota. "

Ha - yeah, that's why Toyota recalled all the Priuses cause of people just making stuff up. Hoo boy.

falconone

There were duplicate postings on the government site. The software issue was addressed and people are getting their updates. The Prius has an excellent reliability record. Compare that to the navigator/expedition fiasco. Ya know.. the ford PU trucks that were converted into luxo mobiles for soccer moms. POOR according to CR. LOL

looking4prius

Ya know...
This will be my first Toyota. I have had Honda Civics and Accords before, a total of 5. Drove a really old Toyota once, seemed ok.

It is just that there seemed to be some comments that were made specifically against Toyotas and Hybrids. Seems rather odd. As I deal directly with smog in the Los Angeles Basin, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by 2015, all cars were required to meet the emissions standards that hybrids meet (AT-PZEV). The cars may be diesel, fuel cell, or whatever, but the Air Quality people here are determined to drive down smog. Heck, they use the Prius as their company cars!

falconone

I just read a very interesting article on this same subject. It all has to do with psychology which is why there is the anti-hybrid sentiment. Not all mind you, but most. Since hybrids are currently the darling of the automotive press, other cars/innovations aren’t getting the attention they normally would receive. This angers some people. In addition, hybrid owners in 2006 will get extremely handsome tax credits from the Federal government. They will also be getting tax incentives from some State authorities as well. As an example, an employee at Google will get $5,000 toward a Prius purchase!! Imagine if that person lived in Colorado?? They’d get $5k from Google, another ~3k from Uncle Sam, and another ~3k from Colorado (assuming they had that much tax liability to the state). That’s nearly half the price of a Prius!!! SUV owners in general get quite angry when they see a car that sits four comfortably fill up with 2/3 less gas than they do! Lastly, the last straw has to be the ability to use the HOV lanes with one occupant. Imagine someone in a Navigator glancing over to the HOV lane while he sees the Prius whiz by!! This is why there is this so called jealousy and anti-hybrid sentiment.

larsb

All very well delivered and correct points.

I might add that some of the "naysayers" are just people who try to see the "glass is half empty" aspect of virtually anything they encounter.

There are others who do not want to think that something new and good could come along and them not be a part of it. "How can this be so great if I don't have one already?"

Others just want to try to prove "Oh, Come ON Guys, Hybrids can't do what the EPA says" just so they can feel like they know more than the EPA and/or Hybrid owners/advocates.

Lotsa reasons. And a lot of the naysayers will come up with ALL KINDS of rationalizations to take themselves out of the groups we mentioned....:D

falconone

Thanks...agree with your additional points as well.

tagman

Anyone notice that the shape of the Prius leaves it extra vulnerable to dents and dings? The doors have absolutely no body protective moldings. I imagine it would compromise the smooth appearance, and perhaps even the aerodynamics, but those dents and dings are a tragedy on the Prius. I've always noticed that some manufacturer's do a much better job of integrating door protection than others, from both a functional and appearance perspective.

looking4prius

I had noticed that, too. Although my Prius is on order, both I and my wife drive Accords and park in one garage at home. If it weren't for the protective mouldings, both our cars would have messed-up doors. This question was asked quite a while ago, and somebody mentioned that a door off of one of the other Toyota products has moulding that would fit the door on the Prius. All fine and nice, so how does one get it installed?

IMHO, the moulding should be either part of the options or an accessory added by the factory.

falconone

Lot of new cars have that type of look these days. They do sell some aftermarket mouldings that look pretty sharp.

tagman

Are ou going to get some of those for your Prius when it arrives?

looking4prius

'Are ou going to get some of those for your Prius when it arrives?'

Checking it out...depends on what kind of moulding. I like the all rubber moulding on the Honda Accord. Just need to see what is out there...

falconone

Still undecided. If I were to go thru with the purchase I would not get them. I am taking a 330ix and Lexus IS350 for test drives in the next few weeks. I know..big differences.

tagman

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Going to a big car show over the Thanksgiving holiday. Wife and I will look at EVERYTHING, even the junk, but when it comes to making another purchase . . . I'm having a hard time falling in love with anything out there right now. I've owned so many different cars over the years, it's nuts. I go through them like sneakers. I always hate to buy a model that is about to undergo a major change within a year or so, only to end up driving the "outdated" version. Another thing that bugs me, is that so many of the "beautiful" cars are maintenance nightmares. I've practically given up on Mercedes quality issues, and the statistics on the Land Rovers are horrible as well. The Jaguars are spotty, and often the BMW's can spend a huge part of their life in the shop. And the exotic cars are so expensive to operate that it's just not worth it any more. And now, fuel economy is a larger factor than it used to be. Maybe this time the answer is a Lexus. Toyota RULES when it comes to reliability, but "CREATURE COMFORTS" and "FUN TO DRIVE" are now big requirements for me!! Good luck with your test drives!!!!! Keep us posted.

falconone

This is why I'm leaning towards a Toyota or a Lexus. I do like the BMW 3 series but I am nervous. With Lexus you know the quality is fantastic and I have a fantastic dealer in NJ (Ray Catena). My Mercedes had a nice warranty and it was in their service bay many times for various issues. I don't want to review them here as it would take too long!! I am glad I have the Mecedes extended warranty through Geico insurance. I'll keep ya posted. Good luck!!

falconone

http://www.worldautosteel.org/article2_042004.html

Interesting article. Now I know why all those crash test are so positive and glowing.

midnightcowboy

Falconone,

So you were really serious about not getting the Prius because of the "brake" issues. I still have one on a gentlemen's agreement order. Had a BMW before, quite a few minor TSBs but remember 4 yrs or 50K free maintnenance. Drove a new IS250 AWD with 6-speed auto; it was pretty slick car. They also had a run of an auto 330 and a IS350 side-by-side and the I350 edged out the 330 because the 330 had a really slow take-off.

Prius or not; wife says I wouldn't be happy with accleration. Even she has shown me articles that the hybrids don't payout. Probably should just drive the 6-speed Accord and be done with it. However, a 6-speed Red Civic Si is an intriguing thought for a commuter car

Keep us post and good luck!

cruis'n in 6-speed bright red Prius GT,

MidCow

falconone

Acceleration is not an issue. I have quite a bit of seat time in the Prius and it does extremely well. I am not the least bit concerned about reliability. I see gas prices going down and I may say...what the heck. The car I have my eye on right now is the IS350. Since it is RWD, that may be a problem. My Merc is, but I do have access to a JGC if things get dicey here. I'll keep y'all posted. Good luck!!

tagman

Back from the auto show. Saw almost everything, including the Lexus IS 350, of course. Nice car, but if you want to take another couple out to dinner, or something like that, and give them a nice ride, the rear room is marginal. I'd have to say it's probably a great "driver's" car, and a LOT of car for the money, IMHO. One of the most impressive cars turned out to be the flagship Lexus LS. I just never realized how incredibly COMFORTABLE and well-made that car really is, front and back. Also, the "E" series Mercedes seemed like a lot of car for the money (reliability is supposed to be better on this model, unlike the others). I liked it better than the S class. We sat in the Prius again, but this time in the rear seat, and WOW, my head went right into the top of the hatch! Nasty surprise! Leg room was great, though. Impressive technology. The MOST GORGEOUS SEXY sedan of the show was the Jaguar XJ Vanden Plas with rear-entertainment and navigation package. All it needed was a chauffeur and "Please pass the Grey Poupon!" Simply spectacular car! I wonder about the maintenance, so I'll probably cruise over to the Jaguar forum at some point later on. Good luck on the IS 350 vs. BMW.

falconone

It will be a tough decision. Will be doing lots of tests over the next few weeks. Prius is still a consideration.

midnightcowboy

Tagman,

Just have to speak up Mercedes reliability has fallen off since they merged with Chrysler. An Jaguar is even worse.

Toyota/lexus and Honda/Acura are still the highest in reability. Prius will beat a Mercedes and a Jaguar in relability.

Lexus is very good, but you are in a whole different price category and Ledxus mainentance is high. Then when out of maintenance Lexus has a replace rather than a repair philosophy, which is very expensive.

Cheers,

MidCow

tagman

MidCow,
Thanks for the reliability report. You are so right. Consumer Reports recently released their latest statistics on reliability. The reports definately show the Toyota/Lexus Honda/Acura vehicles are better in terms of overall reliability. I guess the question for me is just how much all that means. Statistically, a Toyota could visit the repair shop once in two years to fix a non-scheduled issue, but the Jag, for example, could visit the repair shop three or four times in the same two years, and then it does indeed have three or four times the amount of problems. But is that unbearable, or statistically a big deal? I have many friends and neighbors with Land Rovers, Mercedes, Jags, etc., and they love them. I'd have to guess that they go in the shop more than the average Lexus, but if you get the full extended warranty, I'm thinking that maybe it doesn't matter as much if something does go wrong once in a while. I don't know. I wonder if Edmunds has any information about this on their site. You know, just how much difference do these reliability reports actually mean in terms of numbers of repairs, or something tangible to compare, instead of a Consumer Reports "bar chart" which simply makes some vehicles look incredible, and others look like junk. And then again, maybe luxury just does indeed come with a higher price, including service. Lots to think about. Thanks for the feedback!!!!! Really appreciate it!!!!!
TagMan

pdubois

I will be ordering a 06 Prius in January (as I would like delivery in April/May) and am debating whether or not I should order the Nav option. I will get it almost totally loaded (but probably no leather as my wife prefers that way). I already have a PDA based nav system (TomTom) but having one built in the dash would be more convenient if it is a good system.

- Are you satisfied with its performance?
- Does it recalculate route automatically if you miss a turn?
- Do you know who the maker is?
- Can it use other maps than Toyota ones?
- Approximately how much are the map updates?
- Are there dowmloadable updates on the web for the Nav program or must this be done at a Toyota dealer?

Thanks in advance for any info!

falconone

Are you satisfied with its performance?

Works wonderful. Easy to use.

Does it recalculate route automatically if you miss a turn?
Sure does. There is a setting to allow this

Do you know who the maker is?

I believe it is DENSO.
Can it use other maps than Toyota ones?

Unfortunately not. It uses its own proprietary maps. Keep in mind that most NAV makers rely on NAVTEQ for updates.
Approximately how much are the map updates?
Not cheap. Close to $200. I believe the latest version for the 05 Prius is 5.1 or 5.2

Are there dowmloadable updates on the web for the Nav program or must this be done at a Toyota dealer?

Not to my knowledge, but that would be nice. I can do that now with my Garmin (firmware updates). Software for Garmin does cost too, but not as much as Toyota.

Make sure you get the NAV. With dead reckoning and voice commands (read the address into the system) it is better than the previous versions. PLUS... it will help resale as people that buy this type of car expect all the goodies.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!!

pdubois

Thanks a lot for the quick reply! You answered all of my questions, fantastic! I think you are right about the resale value. For the maps update, they are not cheap but I would not update them more than once a year or even every 2 years, so that should be acceptable. Thanks again!

dmathews3

I would think updating every 3 or 4 years would be norm. There aren't that many new major roads made each year. It takes a couple years just to build a major freeway.

gagrice

In many parts of the US they are building thousands of new subdivisions every year. I would bet there are 50 new roads in a 5 mile radius of my home, over the last year. I am sure they are popular with real estate sales people. They would need up to date info. I still like paper maps & keep topo maps on my laptop.

falconone

Where I live they haven't built a road in many years. That's why I don't mind having updates every few years. What IS important are the POIs which do change (new restaurants, gas stations etc). I personally will NEVER buy a car without navigation. It's that good.

gagrice

Have you ever used the Pioneer AVIC-N2? I just bought a new Motor home in Colorado and the dealer offered to install that unit with XM satellite traffic for $2000. I am not sure I would use it.

falconone

Looks like a very nice unit.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_3151_192089333,00.html

I think the price they quoted is fair considering there is quite a bit of labor involved. For that price I would do it. I've never used that brand as it appears they only make ones for permanent installs.

Motor Home?? As you always say... I guess you're one of those "fat cats".

Have a good holiday!!

gagrice

At least they get 25 MPG and my wife can take her cat on long trips. Now is the time to buy them. Everyone is worried about the price of fuel. I did think about the Highlander. Until I found out you can be stuck in some podunk town waiting for Toyota to manufacture a part.

PS
The only fat cat belongs to my wife!

MB Cruiser

tagman

We have a built-in DVD-based NAV system in my wife's vehicle, and it is nothing short of spectacular. I also own a portable Magellan RoadMate that you can use in any car (convenient when traveling or using in a car without nav). The Magellan is a great piece of equipment with built-in hard drive, but the navigation systems today that are built into the vehicles are fabulous, as many of them have included voice-command for the climate control, phone system, audio system, including satellite radio, etc. We are now in an age where it is just plain better to buy a vehicle with nav. IMHO, NEVER buy a car without nav. You will not regret it. As far as the updates are concerned, it is not only about where you live. It is also about where you expect you might travel. If you plan on a road trip, you would be wise to have all the updates for areas that you are not familiar with. I recently took a cross-country trip with navigation guidance. It was spectacular the way the navigation could find lodging, gasoline, ATM's, restaurants, and even STARBUCKS once in a while! It always got us to our destination like a swiss watch. I live in California, and the growth is relentless. I will update regularly. Anyway, just my own thoughts and experiences with navigation. Hope it is helpful.

falconone

Thanks for the link. Maybe I can convince my dad to buy one. Excellent mileage. I bookmarked it for reference.

dmathews3

In many parts of the US they are building thousands of new subdivisions every year. I would bet there are 50 new roads in a 5 mile radius of my home, over the last year
=======================================
but you can bet that that subdivision won't show up on a new map for years. I updated my Street Atlas map program this past fall and they finally got a new highway on it that I have used for 3 years. As far as the subdivision goes even on the old map you should be able to plot it to the nearest cross street that most likely has been there for years.

gagrice

I will have to check the new Thomas Brothers for the two new subdivisions across the hill from me. I think there are two distinctive needs for the NAV units. For me just getting from point A to B is the priority. I get the feeling that many posters are more intereseted in POI, restaurants & services. I think MS Maps & streets with GPS in my laptop is all I really need.

PS
Happy Thanksgiving

earth

Will it be the 2007 or 08 model year, when the prius changes its body style somewhat ? Anyone know for sure

kdhspyder

not for sure but with the normal 5 yr cycle it 'should be' the 2009 model in late '08

fndlyfmrflyr

Our 2005 Prius has Nav. Compared to the Nav system in my Acura, the one in our Prius is a distant second. It works, but is not as intuitive and frequently has problems with certain situations near the destination. It tends to direct to make a right turn into a parking lot rather than a left turn across traffic. This results in going around the block when not necessary.

Our Prius Nav system has gotten lost a few times mid route. If ignored, it does eventually recalculate and get back on track. The Acura (Alpine) system has never gotten lost or directed a trip around the block at the destination.

Chances are the DVD disks have data about a year or so old when they are released. The Acura upgrades are like this. The update for an Acura cost $185. I expect the one for our Prius will cost about the same.

The worst part about the Toyota system is that it cannot be programmed while the car is in motion. The voice activation for our 05 system does not work very well.

By comparison, Acura voice control works well and even the older systems allow programming while the car is moving.

earth

Thanks kdhspyder

falconone

The Acura NAV is very nice indeed. Contrary to what you think, the Prius system CAN be programmed while in motion. There is a secret key sequence that has to be pressed to allow this. The 2006 NAV has voice recongnition for addresses and a higher quality screen.

callmedrfill

I have it on very good authority (another reliable website), that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is looking for new "Sources of Revenue" to maintain, not improve, to maintain the nation's roads and highways.

The taxes at the gas pump have not been modified in 50 years, but it general ends up costing you based on number of miles driven. The more gas you buy, the more tax you pay. But if you buy an inefficient vehicle, you pay more.

Now with people buying fewer trucks and getting smaller, more efficient vehicles, and with ethanol and hybrids available, a special tax may be set up to recoup lost taxes due to market shifts in vehicle purchases, to paraphrase.

Obviously, this penalizes the smarter shoppers, as well as they hybrid technology in general.

Apparently, pointless wars, poor leadership (that would come up with ideas like this), natural disasters, international trade imbalances, corporate tax loopholes, and worldwide military expenses has nothing to do with our crumbling roads, higher taxes, and declining education facilities, and inabilities to defend ourselves from attack or natural disasters.

What I don't understand is the government has wanted the US automakers to come up with fuel alternatives and more efficient cars and trucks, and has been taxing them in that vein.

I guess it's pretty obvious what the gubmints plans have been all along.

Start a war. Spend the country's infrastructure money (taxes) on nice, new war! Brilliant! :shades:

Market bears a better technology. Tax new technology at point of sale. No tax, no infrastructure. :sick:

I thought starting a useless war was supposed to help the economy? I guess a Bush War ever ten years or so, when their thinking caps are left back at "The Ranch", isn't the cure all we all thought it was.

DrFill

falconone

This is in the news section and not really appropriate for this thread. The Chamber of Commerce is a LONG walk to Congress. Maybe ten years from now when the boneheads can agree on a way to make it work. Sounds like Bloomberg's solution to the NYC fiscal crisis. He wanted to put tolls on the Brooklyn Bridge. Yeah....right.

callmedrfill

So it is more than appropriate here or there.

DrFill

falconone

It effect high mileage cars. Not just hybrids. I suppose this will put a damper on the high mileage diesels if they ever arrive at our shores. If you read the fine print, it won't be for another 10-15 years (if ever), so relax.

callmedrfill

I would be surprised to see them fast track a bad idea.

Wouldn't be the first time, would it? :sick:

DrFill

tagman

too much about $$$$$$$$$$$$$, isn't it?

pdubois

I just saw the the 2006 on the Canadian website and I am so disappointed! There are only 2 packages options available. The first one has no NAV and no rear view camera, the second one does have the rearview camera and NAV but no leather and none of them have an HID option (regular ones are halogen)!

I am wondering if it is possible to buy a loaded Prius in the US and bring it back to Canada. Anyone had experience with this? Would the warranty (and the EPP possibly) be valid in Canda once the car has been legally imported (and taxed paid)? Would the mechanics have problem with a vcar made for the US market (maybe slightly different wiring, etc...)?

I can live without the leather (my wife does not like it anyway) but I really want the HID! I could possibly put an aftermarket HID but I understand that it is illegl to do so in Canada, it has to be factory installed OEM.

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the info for Canadians buyers:

Package B
Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Premium JBL Audio
AM/FM Stereo Cassette, Compact Disc Autochanger
9 Speakers
Audio Auxiliary Input Jack
Front Side Airbags
Front Head / Side Curtain Airbags
Smart Key System
Garage Door Opener
Electrochromic Rear View Mirror
Theft Deterrent System

Package C
Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Premium JBL Audio
AM/FM Stereo Cassette, Compact Disc Autochanger
9 Speakers
Audio Auxiliary Input Jack
Front Seat Mounted Side Airbags
Front Head / Side Curtain Airbags
Smart Key System
DVD Based Navigation System with Backup Camera
Electrochromic Rear View Mirror
Theft Deterrent System

falconone

That's too bad that the Canadian Prius can't be equipped like those in the US. Makes little sense. The Prius is a VERY safe auto especially when outfitted with stability control. Heck..even the Corolla CAN be fitted with stability control. You can't even get stability control on ANY Chevy sedan, so you've picked a fine car to drive. Prius..gotta love it.

tagman

Fortunately, as hybrid technology is offered in more vehicles, we will be given choices that include style as well as function and features. These increased choices mean that a hybrid vehicle will no longer need to stand out as a strange or peculiar-looking oddity. The Toyota line-up will include ever-increasing hybrid choices well beyond the Prius, initially the Highlander and Camry, but almost EVERY Toyota vehicle will be offered as a hybrid within about ten years according to Toyota. And the other manufacturer's are also starting to offer NORMAL-looking cars with Hybrid technology. The point is that the Prius is QUAINT because it is a pioneer of a vehicle, leading the way, and attracting all the attention in the beginning. But soon, less folks will want or need that funny-looking body style, because NORMAL looking SAFE and EFFICIENT hybrid vehicles will be increasingly available. Of course, some will still like the Prius for it's unique looks, but hybrid technology will certainly be available in much more truly beautiful and attractive vehicles, thank goodness.

backy

I condsider the Prius to be a truly beautiful and attractive vehicle. For those who prefer more vanilla transportation, there are hybrids like the HCH, HAH, and upcoming TCH.