Toyota Highlander Hybrid

stevedebi

"Toyota has recalled all 04 and 05 Prii for "software issues" that can cause lots of warning lights and trigger "limp home" mode on battery only.

Are we next with the Highlander? Don't we share software with the Prius? This might explain some of the "Check everything" messages that some folks are getting."

It doesn't "limp home", it dies very quickly (unless you have a full battery and are less than 2 miles from home).

The highlander has a different engine, and I suspect that the code was based on the Prius, but is somewhat different. The Prius problem is that the ICE is shutting down due to multiple warning lights triggering a software shut-down.

rodney12

Every car I have ever owned said GM on it somewhere. That ended tonight when I got lucky enough to run across (online) a Black HiHy Limited 4wd with NAV sitting at a local dealer. It was someone elses order who changed their mind when it came. Their loss is my gain. I have only put 20 miles on it so far but I can already tell that learning all about this vehicle will be a fun journey. What an impressive engineering achievement.

gazguzler

I've got a chance for a steal on a 03 Highlander Hitch. But it's not listed for the 05 even though the cars look identical. Any reason why?

jbollt

I believe it wont fit. The 05 has been redesigned underneath to accomodate that silly 3rd seat.

hsockri

I agree. The animation at this link is interesting. It is for the Prius, but I understand the HH has a supersized prius drivetrain.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car17.htm

rcube

I just finished a procedure on my Prius to turn off that irritating beep when backing or before seatbelts are hooked. Does anyone know how do do it on a Highlander Hybrid?

bnc1

I recently started considering buying a hybrid. I am a Toyota fan and visited the dealer today and am interested in the Hylander. I did not cave to dealer pressure to buy today and came home to do my research. Came across this board and tried to read this stuff, but you guys are too smart for me, and I have no clue as to what everyone is talking about...do you have a "Hybrids for Dummies" answer for me? Is the Highlander Hybrid a good car? Are hybrid vehicles good ideas? Do all mechanics know how to work on them? Do the batteries last a long time? I hear they cost thousands to replace, which would be not too good (I hear they last 8 years?) Would the mechanics of taking care of a Hybrid vehicle be twice as expensive as a regular car (thus eating into the gasoline savings?) And are the MPG really incorrect? Thank you for any advice.

jdkahler

Hi! General consensus on this board I'd suggest is the Highlander Hybrid is a great vehicle, but of course it needs to meet your needs. Are hybrids good ideas? Absolutely, they are technology that actually works and is available today. I have friends who own Prius (both "classic" and 2005) and love them, they get better mileage than our HH but they're smaller vehicles for different purposes. If you need the features/capabilities of a vehicle like an SUV, the HH is a great choice.

Can any mechanic work on them? Oil change? Sure. Advanced technology problem, of course not, but how many mechanics can truly work on _any_ modern, electronics-based vehicle? We've had our Toyotas dealer serviced - whatever little service was necessary - and will do the same with the HH (though others would disagree dealer is best choice).

Battery life according to some Toyota info is the practical life of the vehicle, there are claims that Prius batteries have still not needed replacement due to normal usage. Warranty is 100-150K depending on your state. The HH runs on a combination of gas, battery and generated power, and the system is designed to keep the battery in an optimal charge cycle for best life. Trouble with most rechargeable systems (computers, razors, etc.) is that the charge/discharge cycle is under user control, while in hybrids like the HH the computer is under control.

Should mechanics cost more? One would think not, but consider that dealerships will tend to have mechanics trained on these, and their hourly rates tend to be higher. On the other hand, many major parts of the HH are simply Highlander or Highlander derived, so there should be no difference in the cost of service. Many electrical parts tend to be simpler than their mechanical cousins so in some ways might be less expensive, such as the rear drive in the AWD model, much less complex than the comparable gas powered version.

MPG, if you believe the EPA numbers, HH will be less than EPA, but that's the same with any vehicle more or less. Your driving patterns, the way you drive and how willing you are to learn how to drive a hybrid different will effect your mileage. We're getting 26-27MPG in mixed city driving, which depending on weather might include a 5 minute drive to the office - not efficient for a HH (but on the other days we walk, so that's infinite MPG and a health boost too).

The HH is a great vehicle, great to drive, mileage incrementally better than equivalent gas vehicles, every MPG higher for an equivalent size vehicle is that much less gasoline used, period, and lower emissions is better for us all. Could get better MPG - with a smaller engine probabl -, but Toyota compromised toward the power side of the curve. It's very comfortable, very quiet, the technology is cool, and the extra safety features (more air bags, etc.) are part of the incrementally higher price, and to me I hope I never need them but they're worth every $$ if they are needed and make the vehicle safer. Would we buy one again? Absolutely.

(See this month's Consumer Reports for their review, the HH was rated highest in its class, given an Excellent - along with the Lexus 400 if I recall - which no others in the class achieved. Not everyone agrees with CR, but certainly one good source...). - John
PS, most of us aren't so smart, we've just been reading longer and driving HH for a while.....

650vac

Where do you come up with a battery warranty of 100-150K? Are you associating this with emissions warranty?

jdkahler

All the hybrid related components including hybrid battery pack on our PA HH are warrantied 8 years/100K, longer as I recall in CA and NY. We're on the path to hit about 12K a year, so it'll be slightly less than the 8 years. Note that there is a standard (actually smaller than the glas H) 12 V battery that has a typical 2 year/24K warranty. Don't recall the emissions warranty, too late to wander out to the garage.

idaten

I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but I think that in CA, the warranty is 100K miles on the battery for the HH, and 150K for the Prius. That's because the Prius is a PZEV and CA requires PZEV emissions components (of which the battery is considered a part) to be warrranted for 150K miles. The HH iz not (though it is SULEV).

-- rick

rcube

I have a Toyota Prius and a Toyota Hilander Hybrid. they are both fine vehicles. Both vehicles batteries, the big battery, are very expensive. I have heard $3500-5000. In both cases, the synergy portion of the vehicles is warranted for 8 years or 90000 miles.

All mechanics do not know how to work on them. That part which is the snyergy system must be repaired by a skilled Toyota mechanic. The rest of the car can be worked on by a competant mechanic. The wheel, brakes, gasoline engine etc., are just Toyota vehicles and do not require special training for the most part.

You simply drive either vehicle and do not worry about the drive system, the computer is doing it. You will gradually get on to how to drive to improve mileage.

In both cases, if you live in a very cold climate, mileage will decrease in the winter. the gas engine must run enough to keep you warm.

I have never owned a vehicle which got so many raves about how quiet it is as the Hilander. You may not realize it, but it has about 35 more horssepower that the non-hybrid variety. Consumers Report just rated several midsized SUV's, and the Lexus and Hilander were quicker from 0-60 that any of them, including the Jeep V8 and the Mercedes Benze.

I get about 27 MPG with most driving in town. I live in Burlington Iowa and it is all hills, so I view that as very good. I tell most folks that I get better mileage going up hill with both vehicles than I did with their predecessers going down hill.

t

tomslyck

We picked up our HH Limited w/2WD in early June. We're now up to 7,000 miles and we're getting in the 28.5-29 mpg range. We couldn't be happier.

bob259

Debating trading my 05 Tundra DCab in on a Hybrid Highlander. But the delta is what's keeping me from jumping. Man they just don't want to deal and the loss fro 1 year is a killer.
.

kdhspyder

Disclaimer: I sell Toyotas

Mileage/gal and total usage is VERY dependent on YOU! If you try to maximize mpg on a Prius or a HH then you will get very good values. If not.. then you will just pour less pollutants into the atmosphere .. thank you.

I have an '04 3.3L 4WD and it has all the power one normally needs in any condition. But in driving the HH my impression was WOW!!!! We get abt 22mpg on our ICE only Highlander. The figures reported here ~ 27 mpg seem to make sense. The HH and 400H were not promoted as being 'super fuel efficient' but rather getting the power of a V8 with the mileage of a 4c Camry /Accord... and this it does.

Maintenance: Change the oil and rotate the tires.. Inspect the brakes and change the timing belt somewhere betw 60-75K mi.

Reliability: Expect like all Toyotas to drive it 200K mi or more.

Battery: It is made up of many segments which are linked but independent. The cost to replace them ALL at the same time has been posted to be in the $2500 to 3000 range. However it is very unlikely that all will fail at the same time. If one or more fails then you can expect the cost to be in the $100-150 per segment plus labor... but only after 100K miles. My own guess is Toyota expects the life to be in the 200K range but that is my opinion only. I think most people will be trading out of their vehicles well before the batteries start failing. How many people driving upscale vehicles normally drive 150K miles before trading?

FWIW

kdhspyder

stevedebi

"Reliability: Expect like all Toyotas to drive it 200K mi or more. "

"How many people driving upscale vehicles normally drive 150K miles before trading? "

You realize those two statements are somewhat contradictory? And the resale value is directly related to what the new buyers of those 150K vehicles think will happen at 200K and higher miles.

wwest

the level wherein you can afford to purchase upscale vehicles is by driving Fords for over 250k miles. Then when you get to that upscale purchase you have no reason not to make it a colectors item.

kdhspyder

Not really... but I wasnt clear..

The difference which I meant to state was between reliability and ownership. When someone trades a 85K mi 4Runner or Avalon it isnt sent to the junk heap immediatley. It normally goes to the Used Car buyer ( like me ) who will drive it another 100K+ miles. I've done this 4 times with zero problems.

I meant to state that buyers of upscale vehicles like to own them when they are new then trade them on another newer model. 'Bottom feeders' like me look for 50-80K Used Toyotas for the value with the expectation of the vehicle lasting over 200K mi.

Considering the resale value... the latest Camry I had was a 97 4c LE w/ 185K on it with a Resale Value of $4500 and TradeIn Value of $2500. I traded it on a '00 CE 4c Camry w/ 36K mi. Next yr I'll sell this w/ abt 125K mi prolly on a Prius... but I'm certain that I could get at least another couple of years on it up to 200K mi.

Sorry for the confusion.

kdhspyder

ulev

I must be 'different' from most on this forum as`I have different vehicles for different purposes.....I still retain my 1990 4Runner, mainly because it still runs great, for those rare times I need a 'beater' to run the hills, Ahhh, here in Indiana...
I run my HH Unlimited when I go to the 'Big City' and it's environs, though I really need better bumper protection from the Idiots that live there. :mad:
I am retaining my 00' Tundra SR5 Cab for the rehab & remodel projects that I'm still involved with...trying to bail out afore the 'bubble' bursts...
As one can tell, I am a Toyota Man... but I am considering the new Civic Hybrid for my Parents, just to mix it up a bit... :P

1aardvark

I have 5,200 miles on the HH so took it in for the first oil change and let them rotate the tires also, although I'm not convinced it's going to be necessary every time. I had them switch me to Mobil 1 5w-30 since I run Mobil 1 in my 1989 Land Cruiser that has 450,000+. Last week I hit a large truck tread at about 60 mph, in heavy traffic, with no place to swerve, so I took it head on. It sounded like I ripped the bottom right out of it, but got no lights so went on home. Crawled around and looked it over, and could tell the front plastic mud-guard underneath the center was damaged, but no oil or gas leaks so drove it until taking it in for service today. The major damage we found was to the inside of the left front fender. There is a shroud that's supposed to cover the fans and radiator on that side that is completely missing. It protects things from the crap thrown up by the tire. To replace it, the entire inner fender liner will have to be replaced because it is all riveted together. The center plastic mud guard pulled back into place, and there was signs of heavy abrasion on the guard that covers the gas tank, but no further damage. I've got the parts on order (they said a couple of days?), and I'll let everybody know what the final damage is. I feel this is going to happen to a lot of people. If you look at the front of the HH in front of the tires is a tab like a miniature mud flap hanging down. That is connected to that shroud that got ripped away. I don't know what purpose that extra part hanging down has, but I'm almost ready to trim them back flush to get them up and out of the way. Other than this little problem I love our HH. I drive about 80 miles a day of mixed driving and am getting closer to 31mpg.

falconone

Truly amazing mileage for a 4000 lb vehicle with such ooomph. Toyota really know their stuff!!!

650vac

For the 22 MPG quote, what type of driving was it? Was it City, Highway, Mixed?

kdhspyder

Our ICE 3.3L 4WD Highlander is driven almost exclusively at sealevel ( we live on the Outer Banks ) in 2 or 3 trips per day of 15-20 miles. The normal speed is 50 mph.

kdhspyder

bnc1

I have a question, since you sell Toyos...I recently went to Toy dealership to look at the HH and wanted to trade in my 99 4runner with 93,000 - he wanted to give me 6200 for it. I know it is worth 11000 (my online research) and they'd resell it at 14000 probably, it is in impecable shape and since it isn't even at it's half life, I wonder why this is? He then in another breath when explaining leasing, said Toys don't lose their value (had I been sharp enough, I would have asked why then he was offering me such a low deal?) What gives?

650vac

Thanks. I live in Virginia Beach and driving around the area 45 MPH speed limits mostly, we get about 27.5 without trying.

kdhspyder

Here is the real story on your trade. There is a weekly publication to which most dealerships subscribe called the Black Book. It gives the auction values of all vehicles in a specific area during the past week. It's the buyers bible since any authorized representative can expect to go to an auction and buy( or sell ) say a 99 4Runner at the values in that book. If you have a friend who is authorized to go to an auction like this, Manheim for example, you can have him buy one, two or twenty vehicles for you as long as you come up with the cash on the spot. This is the real value of a trade in. It's not what it might sell for Retail but rather the value at which it can be turned into Cash on the spot at an auction. Once a buyer acquires a vehicle at an auction he has to transport it to a Retail store then put it through the shop and generally recondition it to make it Saleable. New tires? Timing belt, engine flush? dings or scratches? You can expect to spend about $1000 above the auction price - more if the vehicle is older.

That's the background. Your vehicle is a 99 4R w/ 93K miles ( Avg miles ). You didnt mention whether 2WD or 4WD, AT or Manual, 4c or V6 and most importantly the condition. At best w/ 93K mi it's average but it might be rough ( -$2K ).

If your 4R is a V6 AT 2WD SR5 with 93K mi. the loan value that lenders look at is $8200. This is the max loan a dealer can expect to get from Toyota, any local bank or credit union. If the new buyer puts down Taxes and Fees then $8200 is the most a lender will lend a prospective buyer ( if YOU sell it yourself to some young buyer and his parents THEIR bank will only give them a loan for $8200 ).

Let me know what your vehicle is in detail and I can give you a better figure possibly.

kdhspyder

kdhspyder

Hello neighbor Is that on your Hybrid Highlander? or on an ICE Highlander? If it's an ICE like ours that's spectacular mileage.

kdhspyder

650vac

Highlander Hybrid. First car in 11 years so we are very pleased. I told my wife that we wouldn't get a new car unless it was a hybrid or fuel cell. My bluff was called once the Highlander came out! Of course, they will probably have plug-in hybrids in two years and I'll have buyer's remorse.

cctdi

Kdhspyder: Thank you for your excellent knowledge in car trading dealing and wheeling; I too just traded in a 03 V8 4Runner SR5 4wd at mere 16k for HH limited 4di, I had bought many cars from this same dealer and this 4Runner had been maintained by the dealership for these past almost 3 years, the car was in top shape with only a little over 31k miles in the odometer, the price for the HH? MSRP! My wife kept complaining the money she had to pay at the pump and she likes the high view of SUV, I just tried to please her. And I am a car fool too; I traded in my rare Touareg V10 for a car and dumped it for an E320 CDI! I remembered so well, the V10 tdi was so hard to get…etc., but the price I got from the trade-in was low enough to upset me until today. Now I know what the Black book is! One thing positive on the trading is the tax you save; in the case of 4R for HH, I saved about 1.2k in sales tax. Forks don’t be a car fool like me. If you get a car without problem, keep it for a long long time. The biggest smiling face is the long term care sales persons; the 2nd is the car salesman (woman), the life insurance pushers……

bnc1

Hello
Thank you for taking the time to explain it, I think I kind of understand.
My car is paid off, I have the title in my name. It is in great condition (I keep it garaged) no dings, etc. If there ever is a scrach I compound it out. I already replaced the timing belt, I service it every 7000 miles at the dealer (same place I am looking to buy the HH). I say new tires is about all it they would need to do. It's an SR5 (I know it's not 4WD) with a sunroof, towing pckg, roof rack, runningboards. Plus I was going to pay all cash (no loan) on the new vehicle - I would think that would get me more on that car or less on the HH or something! When I started to walk he started to drastically come down in price (but I realize he began with a price 3000 over the MSRP listed on the window). His final offer for the HH and trade equalled what the invoice on the HH is, which means he gets my car for free, not good.
There was an aritcle in yesterdays Wall STreet Journal about the hybrid race comparing it to VHS vs Beta back in the days. Apparently GM is making their own hybrid technology that is pretty much the same thing, but lighter in weight and cheaper in price.

kdhspyder

OK thanks for the addtl info.. It's pretty much what I described except that it is very clean for a 93K mi vehicle. Nevertheless it has 93K on it.

BTW there is a BIG drop in value at 100K!! It's a buyers perception thing. If he had any chance to retail your 4R because it was so nice looking ... 80%+ of the buyers would never consider a vehicle with 100K miles. The buyers would have to be dyed-in-the-wool Toyota owners who know the vehicle will go another 100K at least. But the seller does lose 80% of his audience immediately when they see the sticker. Fact of life.

The S/R, tow pkge and RB dont add anything to a buy price. These things are almost expected on an SR5. Figure if he decides to keep it he has to put on 4 new tires ~$500 and detail it and run it through his shop to satisfy the state and then plan to finance it for 30-60 days ( ~$100 Interest to the bank ).

But the BIG limit though is the loan value. If a lender will only give $8200 on this NOW.. not next month.. then he has to sell it quickly at ~$8000 to 8500 and still make a profit. So if he has to put nearly $1000 into it and make a profit he has to buy it in the $6500 range..

A couple of comments:
Cash used to be KING in the past on the purchase of new vehicles. Now it's the reverse. Hint: finance it all... then pay it off whenever you wish if you have the means to do so.

I wouldnt do business with a dealer charging above sticker on a Hybrid Toyota. Toyota has asked the dealers not to do so. We dont at our store ever.

His final offer for the HH and trade equalled what the invoice on the HH is, which means he gets my car for free, not good.
I didnt follow this part so I'd have to see the numbers themselves. Was it a standard HH with 2WD at about $31K? or was it a loaded up one?

There is a Hybrid race but it's between Toyota and Honda and Ford at the moment. GM has a make-believe-Hybrid Silverado/Sierra at the moment. But I will read the WSJ to see what that article says. Tks for the headsup.

kdhspyder

kdhspyder

Tks again for the heads up on the WSJ article. For a press piece it does a very good job of stating the case right now. It's an interesting business case study. It is not exactly the same as the Beta vs VHS struggle for one big reason. Both hybrid systems run on the same standards at present, gas and electricity.

One doesnt have to buy two different machines to play the different tape formats. One could have 2 GM hybrids, one GM and one Toyota or 2 Toyota hybrids and there wouldnt be any conflict. Just go to the filling station and put the fuel in. For the suppliers to each mfgr its a different story.

The basic concept is different also in that GM plans to have all its vehicles run on gas primarily and use the electric motor like a supercharger when needed. It will continue to burn more fuel and pollute more than the Battery-first Gas-second method of Toyota. The GM system is lighter because the battery system is not as powerful as Toyota's but the GM system is less expensive to implement.

So instead of a 5.9L V8 Tahoe now one might see a 4.7L + E-motor Tahoe in the future. This will be an improvement in fuel economy and hopefully emissions so it is welcome to the rest of us who breathe. However the Toyota design will remain much cleaner overall.

It may divide itself on the size of the vehicles. We will have to see what happens with the new Tundra Hybrid in 18 mo's. It may happen that large vehicles will end up with something resembling the GM model and all cars will be powered by something akin to the HSD.

kdhspyder

upstateny5

I would like to hear from people who are using this device - are you pleased and is it helping you at all in identifying driving patterns which will improve mileage? I was doing well on mpg but it is dropping now and may be related to colder temps in the northeast. Also, I am still under 2,000 miles so perhaps better times are ahead.

phoebeisis

One good way to get an idea of what your vehicle is actually worth to a dealer is to check the NADA trade in numbers.They will give you a broad range-like the $13000-$16000 I got on my 2004 Titan-(base model).The lower number is what a dealer might eventually offer you.
Now,if you are doing a cash deal,they don't have much room to work,so you will get the "least' for your vehicle on a cash deal.On a financed deal,you will "get more" because they will make some on the financing.Of course,you won't actually get more-but the written numbers will make you think you got more.
Many folks who brag about what a great deal they got "I got KBB for my trade and $2000 off MSRP" have been hosed in some fashion on the financing.Dealers will ALWAYS make money on a sale-it is their business,so what else.They will never take a slim deal on a hot vehicle-why should they?
If you are up for it, a private sale is the way to go on a well maintained Toyota-if the projected price is under $10,000.I have noticed that it is very,very hard to sell a vehicle when the price is over about $10,000.Private buyers are usually bottom feeders,and they want a good deal(better than dealer,by a lot).I have sold about 10 of my cars-trucks and maybe 30 motorcycles over the years.The most important thing-in the ad-is the price!!If you ask too much,you will get zero calls.Once you get them there,the appearance sells it.Show folks any downsides 1st(marginal tires in your case).It puts them at ease;they understand that you aren't a "car dealer".Make sure the engine compartment is clean-no dirty oil etc.I don't like the shiny sidewall look(hate it in fact),but lots of folks do.
Sell it yourself,but don't ask $14000-maybe $9000 for starters would be about right(but check comparable adds-make sure you are in the same ballpark as the ads you are competing against-slightly lower is better,of course).Don't put "firm",it puts folks off-they won't call.Good luck,Charlie PS If "tire kickers" annoy you,don't sell it yourself.Remember-price sells-the object is to make more-at least $800 more on a sale in this price range-after ad and sales tax loss-than the dealer would have given you.

kdhspyder

very good summary of how to maximize the return from your trade in. The best always is to sell it yourself.

It's pretty basic. The retail sale price of the vehicle is determined by the market as stated by phoebeisis. If you want $14K but the market is $9-10K yours will sit. You will have to prep the vehicle as stated above as would a dealer to make it look nice and possibly fix somethings that the final buyer demands.

Either you or the dealer will spend some money to 'bring it to market' and either you or the dealer will make a profit on it depending on who does the work to sell it. That's why the wholesale/auction price is about $3K less than the Retail Price.

It's a pretty straight forward calculation. Do it yourself it's money in your pocket.\

kdhspyder

hheelloo

I am considering the Highlander Hybrid. However my questions are a bit unique:

- I understand the HH has pronounced engine noise; could that be remedied by installing aftermarket automotive sound-proofing material in the engine cabin?

- Do you think the HH would accept aftermarket 4WD skidplates (or would that affect (e.g. cooling) the electrical mechanisms)?

- I realize the HH is not designed for serious 4WD; however will it handle light trails / washboard roads / snow?

- Is the cornering REALLY that soft (as described)? I drive on curving mountain roads.

- Are there aftermarket remedies to improve HH's handling?

- If the third seat is excluded/taken out, does the cargo space still fold flat?

THANKS FOR ALL OPNIONS AND INFO!

gazguzler

I don't find the engine loud but you can hear it and that helps me with PnG.

There'd be little point skiplating the HH because the rear wheels won't get you out of much because they're underpowered and the motor easily burnt out. Hadn't thought about the cooling profiles, but you're probably right about that, too.

It would handle the scenarios you listed but none of those require skids.

I've not been in a better SUV for cornering.

?I didn't know it had bad handling to be improved?

Compared to what? Another SUV?

The third seat makes if flat. Maybe you could also rip out the plastic holders and bins for the the jack etc. But I doubt you'd have an even surface after.

landdriver

FYI you have a reply to your "Consoles Available?" post in the Toyota Highlander Owners: Accessories & Modifications board.

gazguzler

Thanks, champ, I'd've surely missed it

cdptrap

Almost all your questions can be easily answered if you can find a dealer with one to show.

For noise, it certainly is not Lexus-silent but very quiet during normal driving. We can listen to music, conduct conversations in normal tone. It growls during hard acceleration. There is road noise when driven over harsh rough surface but silky smooth on good surface.

I know little about skd plates on the HH, nothing to say there.

We take our HH to farms and ranch and drive 6+ miles roundtrip along a steep dirt road at least once a week. The road has holes (4 to 6 inches deep) and mud and gravels. We do drive slowly where there are loose rocks so no projectiles hit the undercarriage components.

Not sure why you think cornering and handling are poor. The HH is a 4000-lb SUV so it certainly cannot corner at high speed like a BMW or smaller cars. We have driven it through hilly curves at posted speed and it takes freeway clover-leaf ramps safely and easily. As long as the driver knows how to take a curve safely, the HH will not disappoint.

As for handling, Consumer Reports tested the HH against the likes of Mercedes, Tribeca and Nissan and the HH posted the highest emergency avoidance speed. This should hint at its handling capabilities.

Taking out the third bench completely will leave a depression where the seat-bench goes.

I am not saying the HH has no faults but my family does not have complaints in the area you mentioned. We gripe about why it easily averages 28 MPG and not 30 MPG and we wish the third seat was large enough for a 5'10" adult.

gazguzler

For the purposes of full disclosure, I should say that I always loved the 3rd seat precisely because it's small and can get out of the way and leave a lot of space. but that's when I used to put my kids back there.

But then I saw on this iGuide that the darn thing reclines, which I'd never knew. I can get adults in there comfortably for short hauls and they think it's snug and fun. don't try to put an adult in there with the seat upright. recline it. I had my wife drive and I got back there (6'2") and wouldn't want to live there but for short trips it's not bad . . . better than the roof rack!

cdptrap

Great tip, thanks! I did not know that it reclines.

energyecon

I have used the Scan Guage for a few weeks. I works great and provides information not available on even the Nav screen (which I do not have on my non-LTD) such as RPM and LOD--the percentage of max engine load being utilized. LOD is based on the current RPM. It also shows engine error codes if there are any,

In addition, the SG gives gallons used, gallon remaining, average speed, average mpg and many other factors averaged over the current trip, today, yesterday, and since last fill-up. You can scroll through all of these.

I usually leave the SG on guage mode so it reads out instantaneous mpg, rpm and LOD. When I stop or am curious I switch to Trip mode and look at averages.

It plugs right into the SCADA plug to the left of the steering column and it sits comfortably on the top of the dash in front of the left windshield pillar, where it does not impede visibility.

It has a slightly cheesy Radio Shacky-looking housing, but for $129 pp it is a heck of a deal and a very useful addition,especially for those of us tightwads who Toyota did not think worthy of providing with an average mpg guage. (No average mpg guage on a hybrid!!--what were they thinking?)

It has help me identify a problem with mileage, but I will cover that in a separate post so as not to hijack this Scan Guage thread.

Marvin

upstateny5

Thanks for your informative post on Scan Gauge which I think I will purchase. I too have the non Ltd Hybrid and for the amt we paid you would have thought we would have gotten the average mpg display. However, I do have to say that I think I like the simplicity of our display versus the busy NAV screen.

I do hope your mileage improves and I would get it checked. I am just now starting to really understand the P&G method of driving and living in a rural area I am often able to drive for several minutes before spotting someone in my rear view mirror - good practice time.

rrouse

Hi I bought a AWD V4 Highlander Hybrid (non-limited) on Saturday. Unfortunately, I test drove one, but then it had some options on it I didn't want, and so I wound up buying a different one that I didn't test drive (I know, stupid me). After two days, I couldn't take it anymore. It felt like I was driving around with the emergency brake on (and it wasn't). They car was really really sluggish, and vibrated terribly on acceleration. When you took your foot off the gas, it nearly came to a stop instead of coasted. I was distraught and I didn't know whether it was my imagination that the car I test drove wasn't like this or if I really was different. Tonight, I went back to the dealer and drove the car I test drove originally, and I was right, it was different, it was better, much much better. Like a normal car. The dealer and the service guys drove the one I bought and while they admitted that the ride was different, they said that each car drives differently and the hooked it up to the computer and said everything was fine. I wound up trading in the one I bought (after owning it for 48 hours) on the one with the options I didn't want. Wound up costing me the price of the options and an additional $265 to register the second car. I can't decide if I'm just mad at me for being stupid not test driving the car I bought, or I'm mad at the dealer for not admitting that there is something wrong with the car I bought. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

mmreid

There was a link on bottom of CNN homepage today to a Time magazine article on Kicking the Oil Habit or you can go directly to:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1122047,00.html?cnn=yes

This past weekend we took our HH Ltd to a music festival about 90 miles away and it's interstate for about 82 miles of that trip. I hit cruise control for the whole interstate part both ways and averaged about 75 to 80 (yeah, I have a fuzz buster and the road was really empty - odd for a Saturday). Even at that speed we averaged about 25 mpg for the whole trip. I've done much better keeping it below 70 mph.

Used the heat and my seat warmer for the very first time yesterday. See what happens with mileage in cooler weather although here in Florida Panhandle we don't get super cold weather or snow, just hurricanes. . .sigh.

mmreid

falconone

That sounds very strange. You're lucky they took it back! It almost sounds as if B was engaged for going forward.

ccox2

Both my HH and the one I test drove were a dream to drive. I can't stand driving my wifes van any more (It's to noisy and rough driving). But since you mentioned it, what is 'B'?? I thought it was the braking option that allowed the car to pull more power when coasting, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on my car. But you mentioned something about going forward. Does it only work going backward??

cdptrap

"B" is engine braking. It should not be used in place of "D" for normal driving. THe manual has a warning and more information.

It is most useful on long downhill at speed up to around 65. Beyond that, we found it not usable and must apply brakes to slow descent.

It does eat up gas because the ICE has to run to make this happen.

trstno1md

I just purchased my 4x4 HH limited on Saturday, and the dealer has tried to sell two extras, as expected. I want to request advice before deciding whether to purchase.

The first is the extended warranty. The dealer is requesting $1950 for a zero deductible, 7 year/100,000 mile extended warranty - it's the standard Platinum Toyota Extra Care coverage. They are saying that if the warranty is not used during the 7 years, then the cost of the policy is 100% refundable. I'm trying to see a downside to buying the policy, but I can't find it.

The second option is the rust proofing, paint protection, interior leather treatment. I can't find the sheet with the cost info, but I think it was about $800 for the total package. When I last bought a new car ( a long time ago), this kind of offer was to be avoided like the plague. Is that still the case, or should I consider it?

Finally, the dealer did not offer an option to prepay for scheduled maintenance, which is something I probably would buy. I may need to call back about that.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can lend.