Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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Comments

  • elkeyeelkeye Member Posts: 3
    Part number may be wrong but was obtained from the parts department of two different Toyota dealers in Alberta, CANADA. One department told me that an engine block heater was mandatory on all new passenger "cars" sold in Alberta and looked up the part number for the 2006 Hybrid Highlander.

    Ordered the block heater and it arrived in a red, white and black box (Quality Parts/Toyota Canada, Inc) and had the part number printed on the side panel. The enclosed instruction sheet was for three different heater nos. C0140-00644, C0140-02110 and C0140-01134; however it was printed 2/96 and did not provide core hole plug location or element direction for Highlander. According to the instruction sheet [36PT313(2/96)], heater number C0140-00644 was used with engine (IMZ-FE) in the 1995-96 Toyota Avalon, the 1994-96 Lexus ES-300 and Toyota Camry.

    Without the core hole plug location and element direction (o'clock position), the installation of an engine block heater may be a challenge on the Hybrid Highlander.

    Would like to avoid a trip to Canada just to get an engine block heater installed.

    Interestingly, a block heater is listed as an exterior accessory on www.toyota.ca. ("Options & Accessories") for the Highlander Hybrid. Price varies (depending on dealer).
  • gazguzlergazguzler Member Posts: 137
    Interesting. My deal said the number never starts with a letter and is ten long but he'd checking with corporate to find the part. Maybe I'll be able to get instructions, too . . . . if we can find it.

    How much did it cost you?
  • chrisp96chrisp96 Member Posts: 13
    Just curious. Did you get the ext warrty online? Or at a dealership?
  • elkeyeelkeye Member Posts: 3
    Toyota Depot has posted a block heater using part #C0140-00644-S2.

    http://www.toyotadepot.com/product_info.php?currency=USD&cPath=8_54&products_id=256

    The parts individual I spoke with at a Toyota dealership in Alberta, CANADA indicated that their computer showed that #C0140-00644-S2 had been updated to show the part # without "S2".

    Would be interesting to see if the "S2" version has installation instructions for the Hybird Highlander.
  • bakaronibakaroni Member Posts: 10
    What's up with the number of Highlander Hybrids that seem to be available in the Bay Area, ready for delivery? Is there not as much demand as expected? Can one get the HH for below MSRP?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    IMO Toyota and Honda made a mistake linking the hybrids with their respective V6's. It's OK for the Lexus buyer who's looking for better performance and is willing to pay for it. But most HonYota buyers are frugal and economy-minded with little or no interest in performance enhancements. I am guessing that the next iterations will be the Highlander and RAV linked to the 2.4L I4 with the hybrid V6 reserved just for Lexus.

    I sell them and I have an ICE V6 Highlander. Now I'm not taking it to Daytona. It's a people mover. Now if you said that the models next year would give me the same hp as my V6 now and I could get as much as 35 mpg combined... I'm sold.
  • bchihybchihy Member Posts: 6
    Hello all. I am a new poster Have been reviewing here for a short time, and appreciate the info on tire pressures, driving techniques, oil use etc. My new Hi/HY has most of the toys and I love it. Bought it off the lot in July.

    I have not seen anything abt. tax deductions. My dealer says it will qualify for the deduction , but has nothing on paper. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    I am also preparing my tax package and used the following link as initial info.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

    Your state may also have additional rebate or write-off. I am in CA and there is nothing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You can go to the IRS website yourself and look for deductions on hybrid vehicles in 2005. It's $2000 income reduction - similar to an IRA deduction.
  • bchihybchihy Member Posts: 6
    Thank You. Just what I needed. Should we be concerned abt." may be eligible " ?. My state is Mich. and I have seen nothing re: state tax. Tnx again!
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    the irs maintains a site that will show you that your model qualifies for an 05 tax deduction. www.irs.gov
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    I used to think same, but have since gone over to the dark side of wanting the V6. I think offering only a V4 will be a detriment to the car.

    The HH is like a road version of the 4Runner. It bests the 4Runner in every way on paved roads and loses only in towing and off-roading. The HH is heavy, tows 3500-lbs, quite capable of hauling heavy load and it needs the V6 to meet all these demands.

    Also remember that continuous torque at higher speed comes from the ICE, not the electric motor. A V4 simply cannot match a V6 when carrying or towing a heavy load at speed especially when climbing a steep grade.

    May be the best choice is to offer a switch/mode that favors more electric versus the current normal mode. Or deactivation where the V6 can shut off 2 cylinders and drive like a V4. I would use this low-performance mode for in-town driving where everything is nice and slow.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Good points all..

    I like the idea of removing some of the cylinders while cruising ala GM and Honda.

    I've got the V6 ICE and I dont see a need for anymore power than it has already... but we dont carry big loads either. I would opt for the same power but better economy.
  • chrisp96chrisp96 Member Posts: 13
    When an ad claims "ready for delivery", it does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is actually sitting on the lot. I've called dealerships that claimed HH's "ready for delivery" in the hopes of test-driving one, only to find that they were sold as soon as they arrived on the lot...So I was told to wait for the next shipment. In the meantime, their ads continued to state "ready for delivery"....
  • crystal2crystal2 Member Posts: 52
    Hi, bob259, I want to inquire also; where did you get the extended warranty quote from and would the company also handle lexus extended warranties? Thanks.
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    I have driven the HH Ltd. and thought it was terrific. I think I have a good shot of getting it, early next week, if I want it.

    I'm sold on the overall environmental positives with the HH. But, I'm not completely sure about the economics, especially for the type of driving I do.

    I do around 33-35,000/yr. The vast majority of that driving is highway. So, on the one hand, I expect that the debate over pay-off on the extra purchase price tilts in favor of purchasing. I should make up the difference within the 4 years I expect to take paying off the loan. But, on the other hand, will the fact that most of my mileage will be done on the highways significantly negate the mpg premium the HH surely provides for city/suburban driving?

    I understand that I have to alter my driving habits - but, like chocolate and pizza, if understanding and knowing were doing....?!

    Experiences with mpg seem all over the place. I imagine that those who have altered their driving styles are achieving the best results. Assuming that I get better, at least, what can I reasonably expect on mpg?

    Finally, is there useful data on the lifespan of hybrid engines? I would expect that most Toyotas, if appropriately cared for, will easily go 150-200,000 miles. Assuming the car remains a comfortable and reliable ride, it would be great to get 2 or more payment-free years...to save up for the next new technology vehicle. How can I project on the battery? If I have to assume that I will need to purchase a new one, the economics shift again.

    Experiences and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Peace.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The lifespan question has been debated at length here in another thread. I am firmly on the side that Toyota 'knows' in it's R&D that the battery system will last well into 200K miles if not damaged. The warranty you have depends on where you live.

    For most of the US it's 100K mi or 8 yrs, the 100K in your case. But in CA, NY, MA it's 150K mi. I believe ( pls verify that tho ). This will be the 10th year the hybrid system has been on the road 4 in Japan and 6 here. I'm certain that Toyota has enough data to feel secure to make the statement on its website that the battery are '...expected to last the lifetime of the vehicle'. c.f. Toyota.com --> hybrids --> FAQ

    I've been selling the hybrids since they came here in 2001 and just bought a new Prius this week. I drive a similar amount as you just a little more, 45-50000 annually. I also have an ICE Highlander which my wife drives mainly. She gets about 20 mpg combined. From reports here a normal driver using the best features of the system should expect to get about 25-28 mpg combined, or about a 30-35% saving on your fuel cost over an ICE Highlander.

    If you are coming out of a V6 sedan then there likely is no savings in fuel. If you are coming out of another V6 or V8 SUV then you could be saving up to 50% or more of your previous fuel cost.

    Those that buy the HH seems to love the experience simply because the power is so significantly better and you still have the quality ride of a Toyota. The fuel saving is a secondary benefit but not normally the primary purchase reason.
  • jdkahlerjdkahler Member Posts: 50
    3800 miles on our HH and we get 26-27mpg consistently in mixed driving including a very short commute which is not good for mileage - overall we're about 50/50 city/highway. Wanted to add that a consistent point in the discussions on mileage is that proper tire inflation is essential, I suspect that most drivers (me included) pay less attention to proper inflation than we should, but when you do your mpg does well. The consensus seems to be keeping the tires at around 36-38PSI which is higher than recommended but within tire spec. Go higher if you don't notice an unacceptable deterioration in ride for your tastes. The other main change in driving style is to not drive with a lead foot, using the readouts (we have a non-LTD so it's bar graph not the fancier nav-based readouts) to show when you're maximizing mpg, not really that difficult.

    That said, since the ICE is more used on open highway there isn't a Prius-like improvement in mileage in class but as hdhspyder notes it's still an improvement over similar V6 vehicles, the electric system does contribute when the computer senses it is useful both for power when needed uphill and being used and charged on downhills. It's surprising how often on our highways (PA, NJ) you'd see the MPG jump way up on the gauge on even slight downhills. And the extra immediate power available if you need it for passing/merging is truly impressive, great if your highway driving brings on occasions when you need it.

    Yes, the experience is excellent, the full package of safety features are there if you need them, and so far at least we have no complaints. Approaching first 5K service it'll just be required maintenance/oil change and a good wash and detailing to handle winter dirt and mess, we can't find anything else to bring to the dealer's attention. What we'd expect from previous experience with Toyota, but this is a brand new model and typically you find something.

    Check out Consumer Reports review to see the other reasons why they rated hybrid Highlander highest in class, and see their mileage comparison to ICE Highlander. Would we buy another? Absolutely. - John
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I would caution everyone to be a little more careful about over-inflating tires during the winter months when adverse roadbed conditions are more likely to be encountered. If anything I would advise very slight under-inflating during this time period.

    Over-inflating your tires can substantially reduce the tire's contact patch with the roadbed thereby endangering you and yours in those conditions.

    And don't forget that the speedometer will read lower than your actual roadspeed, and the odometer will indicate you have travelled farther than actual mileage contributing, falsely, to fuel economy.
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    The posts following yours were well thought out and i can only add of course you will have the tax deduction if you purchase this year, and if you try to use the cruise control with the hybrid on your freeway trips it will maximise mpg. KDH congrats on your new Prius, and im sincerely wondering since less than 10% of fellow 400h and HH drivers are getting as low a mileage as your wife, are her trips mainly short, or does she have lead foot. Its not hard to average 25 to 28 mpg combined in these vehicles. Many of us are not finding a highway penalty. That being said if you drive over 60 mph on the freeway the mileage will start to suffer.
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    Thanks all...these are, indeed, very thoughtful and helpful responses.

    I live in MA and it does appear that the battery warranty is 150,000 mi. That's really reassuring.

    On highway driving: My breakdown is probably 80/20, even 85/15. I am relatively sure that I can slow down a bit, but criss-crossing the state...going to meeting after meeting...not sure that I'll ever consistently do better than 70-73. 60??!! Can't see it ever happening.

    Right now, am driving an '05 Subaru VDC wagon. A really terrific vehicle, but a bit too cramped for all the driving I do. Am barely avering 20mpg, using premium. Admittedly, the car is very quick/fast and I usually do around 80 on the Mass Pike.

    Thanks, again. (Though any additional thoughts are still welcome!)

    Peace.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    katz..

    Hers is an ICE Highlander - a 'gasser'. In it she gets abt 20 mpg combined on two 20 mi trips per day. I was using her results as a baseline for comparing the HH.

    Tks BTW.. :D
  • katzjamrkatzjamr Member Posts: 146
    sometimes i only open my mouth to change feet, thanks for the clarification kdh.
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    I believe someone mentioned the lower-resistance tires, as a means of improving gas mileage?

    I have been in awd (Subaru and Volvo) vehicles for nearly a decade. We live in the hills of WMass and travel, not only across the state, but into Vermont, as well. So, we drive a lot in snow conditions...plus, we live on dirt roads in a hilly area.

    Over the years, I have used really good winter tires to enhance the benefits of AWD in the snow.

    Would probably do the same with a HH. Should I worry about further reducing mpg??

    Again, thanks in advance.

    Peace.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Dirt road!? We face the same challenge. We have a well maintained crushed granite driveway and we drive on well maintained farm and ranch roads weekly. Got 8" of snow 2 weeks ago on portions of our ranch.

    Where we drive, snow tires are insuffient so this post is about using better 3-season tires and chains.

    Our HH Ltd. came with Goodyear Integrity, rated for cars and minivan, *NOT* for light truck or SUV.

    It rolls very well but braking suffers and its sidewall is only 1-ply, really cheap! We lost one of these tires to sidewall puncture a few weeks back. Another HH owner here reported losing 2 Integrity tires to sidewall punctures in the first 4 months.

    We strongly recommend changing the stock Integrity to truck tires. There are many good ones made by Bridgestone, Goodyear or Michellin. We are using Goodyear Fortera SilentArmor. We had to use 235-65/17 instead of 225-65/17. We picked the Fortera for its 2-ply reinforced sidewall.

    MPG did not suffer, still getting 28 mpg so far. In return, we get excellent dry and wet handling and braking. The car was solid in torrential rain last week. We used chains when climbing our snowy ranch roads so no idea yet how the tire will perform in snow without chain.

    If you use 4 chains in snow (old Michigan habit) instead of the normal 2 (strange recommendation), you will need to buy special chains to fit the rear wheel-well because it has *NO* room for chains. We use "Spike-Spider" for the rear wheels because it covers only the outer half of the tires. We have used "spikey" for the past 7 years without problems.
  • judi3judi3 Member Posts: 10
    Has anyone experienced a drag feeling in the HH when going 60. It feels like there is resistance.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Hi judi3, we did notice this "drag" feeling during the first 1000 miles. How many miles do you have now?

    It "vanished" after the 1000 mile mark. Either we got used to it or something "broke in".

    We forgot to check the tire pressure until the 1000 mile mark. 1 tire was 28, another was 35 and others had other pressure reading. I am unsure if adjusting the tire pressure fixed the problem. We just were not paying close attention at the time.

    You can check tire pressure just to be sure. It should at least be 32 psi, we used 35 psi and some owners here use 38psi-40psi. Toyota does not recommend going beyond 40 psi.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Get used to the lower MPG for winter months - happens to ALL cars, but hits hybrids in particular because the electric drive is slower to activate until the engine operating temps reach a certain range.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    Are there any rumors going around about the 2007 HH concerning changes and launch date? is what's posted on the future vehicle portion of edmunds the best guess out there for now?

    The reason I ask is that I saw a review of the 06 rav4 and apparently it's bigger and has an optional (very cramped) 3rd row and optional 268hp engine. with the rav4 "moving into" highlander teritory, I'm wondering if this means the new highlander will be bigger. there's no sense in having 2 car based suv's, both with cramped 3rd rows.

    in thinking about toyota's stratedgy to make all cars with a hybrid option, does this mean the rav4-hybrid will move into the "green gas miser" spot, while the HH continues in its "i think I'm a sports car" ways, with fast 0-60 and 1/4 times?

    I put off buying a HH because of the tax credits next year. but then I thought I'd wait to see what kind of changes come around in the 07 HH. but then I started to speculate that the rav4 will be the gas miser and may consider waiting for that model. at this rate I'll never buy a hybid. :surprise:
  • judi3judi3 Member Posts: 10
    Thank you cdptrap. I only have 500 miles on the car and was hoping the drag feeling would cease after a breaking in period. I will check the tire pressure. Thank you
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Local gas price is around $2.50+ now for premium so Hybrid sales may dip sharply.

    Current 233+ hp V6 ICE for the 4Runner is rated at 18/22 mpg, so the new or tuned-up 269-hp ICE V6 will get same or worse. This shows car mfr are still betting that horse-power will sell. Many new 2006 mid-size SUV's are offering a V8 option maxing out around 310-hp, probably in response to the current HH.

    If the RAV4 is getting a Hybrid 269-hp engine (HH's engine), mpg will be darn good because the RAV4 is a lighter car.

    Following this trend, the 2007 HH will likely get more power before it gets more cargo room. it will need a either a 310-hp Hybrid engine configuration just to keep pace with current gas-only competition or it will get a 350-hp Hybrid engine to best all competitors.

    By 2008, we may be talking about a 400-hp Hybrid engine for a car like the HH. :sick:
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    that should the RAV4 go "hybrid" it will be with an I4.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The new Highlander is due out next fall. It presently is on the 02 Camry platform but with the Pilot on the Odessey frame the Highlander is a little space deficient in comparison. I'd guess the new Highlander will be on the new Camry frame or on the Sienna frame but bigger in any event. If the RAV and the new Camry are getting the 268 hp engine the Highlander is sure to as well.

    With the new RAV being almost as big as the current Highlander I think the 4c ICE Highlander is history. It didnt sell much anyway and the RAV is a better option. It's like having a 4c Avalon???

    But the Hybrid version?.. IMO the V6+HSD in the Highlander is a mistake like the HAH is a mistake for Honda. The fuel savings aren't that sexy to stand out. I think it much better to link the HSD to the 4c in the Highlander and bring the power up near the current V6 ICE, maybe 220 hp or so. Possibly leave the V6+HSD for the Lexus model.

    Now the SUV lineup might look like:
    4c RAV
    HSD+4c RAV?
    V6 RAV
    HSD+4c Highlander
    V6 Highlander

    Caution with Toyota's expected sales you might be left outside looking in on the credit issue if you wait until late next year to get a hybrid. Ask your tax advisor.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Would be a hybrid with an I4 using the Miller Cycle. That's the Atkinson Cycle with a SuperCharger as in the Mazda Millenia S. My suggestion would be to power the supercharger with an A/C drive motor (powered by the hybrid battery) so it could just "lag" along unless the driver puts his/her foot into it.

    Mazda is currently using a turbocharged 2.3L I4 to produce 274 HP.

    Still doesn't solve the need to keep the catalyst heated to 800C when the temperature is below freezing but it would certainly increase fuel economy for those of us not boy-racers or lead-foots and at the same time provide lot of HP for passing those ICE only gas hog SUVs
  • discussion1discussion1 Member Posts: 103
    I checked Toyota site and '06 RAV4 is getting an optional ICE V6 that puts out 269-hp. That means the RAV4 will most likely be as big as the Highlander.

    I can see the HH remaining at 268-hp but becoming bigger, closer to a Sienna. THat will be very nice. My wife is already considering trading our HH for the larger '07 version, I should never have told her about this forum :-). I will prefer to wait for a real on-/off-road capable hybrid 4x4 w/ locking diff and solid axle or off-road suspension.

    It does seem strange that car companies are still selling "horse-power". Up to a certain point, physics takes over and handling becomes more important than raw power. They should instead pay attention to features such as better handling, precision steering, better suspension, more safety features. No use getting gerzillion horses when all it can do is drive straight.
  • gazguzlergazguzler Member Posts: 137
    FYI, I wrote this to the staff and board of a group that's critical of Toyota and the HH:

    We are a nonprofit working with Toyota and we're shocked and saddened by your unfair and counterproductive campaign against them.

    Ironically, just this week, Toyota was - again - given a 100% ranking in Human Rights Campaign's Corporate Equality Index. By any rational and objective index of social and environmental responsibility Toyota is first among automakers.

    In your critique, you make only passing reference to Toyota's landmark Prius (which has changed the automobile forever). Their overall emissions and mpg are far superior to other companies . . . so why are you picking on them?

    Because of the Highlander Hybrid, you say.

    First, I hope you'll recognize, some of us actually need SUVs and 4X4s. Much of the health (and even wildlife) work in underserved or remote areas requires these cars and no company has so consistently built reliable and rugged vehicles like Toyota. And, it should be remembered that it is wasteful and polluting to make new vehicles and scrap old ones so the longer a vehicle lasts and is reliable (without polluting) is an extremely important environmental measure.

    I'm not defending Americans' use of these vehicles as status symbols but you can't chastise a for-profit company for selling vehicles based on customer demand (especially when everyone else is selling them). Toyota offers a range of vehicles from the very best (Prius) to nothing near the worst (the Hummer). So, why don't you have the courage to deal with the real problem (your American audience!) instead of scapegoating a Japanese man as a sheep in wolf's clothing (which I find racist)? You should be telling Americans to give up SUVs and start buying the Prius.

    We own a Highlander Hybrid (HH) and first I'll say that the New York Times simply got it wrong about the HH’s mpg. Why would you use their numbers instead of the official US gov't's EPA rating, which states the HH gets 33MPG? The EPA numbers are the benchmark by which all cars are judged equally. The HH has the best EPA numbers of any SUV and any 7-seater.

    In reality, the HH's mpg is much better than the NYT tested. I and many other drivers are able to get 30mpg or close to it in this vehicle. If you care to join me, I'll show you similar results in our HH. But don’t take my word for it, user forums and blogs are littered with similar and even better results. Here's one that shows someone got 47.1 mpg in a HH.
    http://www.greenhybrid.com/share/image349.html

    Even 25mpg for 7 passengers is better than a Prius because you'd need two Prius to move that many people . . . never mind that the HH can move more equipment and can 4X4.

    But why would you bring such scathing criticism to this vehicle, when even its worst critics don't pretend it gets less than 20mpg? There are plenty of SUVs that get much less than 10mpg!

    By picking on the best and most responsible manufacturer, you're telling Toyota to stop trying so hard to be responsible AND you’re telling all the laggards in Detroit not to bother stopping production of the gas-guzzling Hummers, Expeditions and Escapades . . . that Americans love.

    You don't give credit to the company that leads the industry in every measure of social and environmental responsibility. Instead, you pick on them.

    You may think that you're going to change Toyota but you're really going to discourage all the other companies from even trying to be as good as Toyota.

    LØV€, ßRï
    nil magnum nisi bonum

    The Vineeta Foundation
    www.vineeta.org
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota offers a range of vehicles from the very best (Prius) to nothing near the worst (the Hummer).

    I think it is fair to compare the Toyota Land Cruiser to the Hummer2 for it's impact on the environment. They are both a far cry from my ideal off road vehicle. And neither is practical in town or on the highway. It is the Land Cruiser/LX470 brush that the far out environmentalists are using to paint Toyota less than "Green". I happen to agree. I think the only reason Toyota is building any hybrids is greed, not green. They figure it is their best shot to topple the other automakers. It is business as usual.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-" I think the only reason Toyota is building any hybrids is greed, not green."-end quote

    That's your opinion, and if would be idiotic on toyota's part if it were true. And, last I checked, you still think the Toyota hybrids are "loss leaders" so how can that be GREED, if they are losing money on every sale?

    They are building cleaner factories, reducing pollution everywhere they can.

    No one else has sold 513,000 hybrids.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Part of the problem could be the public perception, perfectly justifiable, that the new HH and RXh were more designed for the "boy-racer" crowd than for environmental considerations.

    And in the near future?

    500HP hybrid LSes, and GSes?

    Get REAL Toyota!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    how can that be GREED, if they are losing money on every sale?

    That is an easy one. Volume!!!! The more cars the better chance at toppling GM from the throne. Anyone that thinks that Toyota is in the business for any reason other than making money. I have a very nice piece of desert in AZ to sell you. I just saw a report in Dec issue of Business Week listing the Greenest corporations. Guess what? Toyota was not on the list. BP was number 2 with huge investment in all things green. They were the first oil company in the US to sell only low sulfur diesel at all their stations. They are the largest solar panel manufacturer the last I checked. Not sure where Toyota fits in that green list. It would be tough with all the pollution spewing factories around the world. Remember not even Japan has met the Kyoto treaty goals that they have pushed for.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote wwest-Part of the problem could be the public perception, perfectly justifiable, that the new HH and RXh were more designed for the "boy-racer"-end quote

    First of all, they were OF COURSE NOT DESIGNED for boy racer.

    Toyota took an EXISTING ENGINE and added the hybrid system to that, in order to cut costs and not be required to design an entirely new engine.

    By default, adding the HSD system to the existing engine will OF COURSE ADD MORE HORSEPOWER to the vehicle. No way around that.

    The beauty of that is that the new hybrid vehicles STILL get more gas mileage than the gasoline only vehicles. But if you need the extra passing power or extra merging power or extra safety of being able to accelerate out of a potential accident, the hybrid drivetrain is there to help. AND the vehicles STILL are cleaner emission-wise too.

    It was certainly not added to turn the new hybrids into race cars. Especially the RX400 - don't know TOO MANY "boy racers" who can plop down 48 large for an SUV. :D
  • gazguzlergazguzler Member Posts: 137
    I don't entirely disagree but I do think some perspective is necessary.

    First, the last thing Toyota wants to do is surpass GM. there will be hell to pay in the US and you can expect protectionist legistlation the day after. T is terrified of this inevitable day. It's not their goal; they can make plenty of profits without suprassing GM in sales (as GM's making losses).

    T's far better than any auto mfg - no agrument. Profit-driven for sure. but at least longterm profits and not fast buck profits.

    They're doing these things because they make longterm biz sense.

    GM's doing things that don't make any sense, even business sense . . . as we're seeing in their quarterly reports.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    ...design an entirely new engine.....

    Isn't the HL still available with an I4 that's currently in production? If an I4 is deemed adequate for the HL then think what a I4/hybrid combination would be like, 268HP maybe?

    Boy-racer defines a personality type and is not an age reference.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote day9-"i feel hy vechicle won't save your gas on highway."-end quote

    Depends on which Hybrid you are talking about. All the Honda hybrids are rated HIGHER for hwy mileage than city mileage.
  • gazguzlergazguzler Member Posts: 137
    I get better mpg hwy than city. Maybe this is because hwy is by def longer and the CC's warmed up. City is short trips and this is a killer for the HH.

    I was surprised by this initially but I'd be surprised if y'all've had different experiences.
  • day9day9 Member Posts: 57
    maybe i should've said "... compared to a non-hybrid version..." :D
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Gaz,
    Glad you wrote the letter, it will likely fall on deaf ears but every little bit helps.

    A lot of these "activitsts" are all mouth and little else, no facts, no logic, no research or wantonly incomplete research at best or at worst, selective research to support their position. May be this is why technology industry leaders and educational institutions are lamenting the "dumbing" of our students in scientific knowledge and techniques.

    From what I could see, it seems their logic is as follows:

    If Car has V4, then Car is Gas-Miser.
    If Car has V6, then Car is Gas-Guzzler.
    If Car has low-hp, then Car is Gas-Miser.
    If Car has high-hp, then Car is Gas-Guzzler.
    If Car is SUV, then Car is Gas-Guzzler.

    If they really want to pick on cars that do not save gas, may be they should pick on this month's Consumer Report selections:

    1. MAZDA5 2.3-liter V4 (157hp) EPA 16/31. Overall mpg is 23 by CR.

    2. PONTIAC VIBE 1.8-liter V4 (130hp) EPA 19/36. Overall mpg is 27 by CR.

    3. Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4-liter V4 (180hp) EPA 13/29. Overall mpg is 20 by CR.

    4. Chevrolet HHR 2.4-liter V4 (172hp) EPA 16/33. Overall mpg is 23 by CR.

    5.Toyota Highlander 4WDi Ltd Hybrid 3-liter V6+Electric (268hp) EPA 27/31. Overall mpg is 22 by CR.

    At the very least, the HH MPG matches all but 1 of these V4 in CR tests. How can V4's little car not beat the HH by a mile in CR tests?

    In practice, our HH gets 28-mpg up until cold weather hits. And they are screaming at Toyota HH? May be they have nothing better to do but to find something to bash.
  • typesixtypesix Member Posts: 321
    There are no V4 engines currently in auto production. All are in-line engines. The last V4 seen in an auto may have been the Saab 96 of the 1960s(?).
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    I found Bluewater earlier this year and thank goodness decided to not donate until I know how they work. Many such organizations really hurt the mainstream environmentalist effort by their "extremist" shoot first and take no prisoner approach.

    Here is a link to a Canadian publication that took Danielle Fugere's "truth" to task by trying to dupllicate Danielle's claim. You will laugh or cry...

    http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=41bd5ba2-8e6a-4a96-bdc4-3a8d74df157e
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    ooops, you are right, I4, not V4. You can see my "age" from my slip of fingers :-).
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