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Comments
I've been selling the hybrids since they first came out in 2001. Just took delivery of my Prius last month.
I can get
25 mpg, 35, 45, 55, 65 and 80+.
The EPA test is flawed as everyone knows because it uses faulty premises in a controlled situation. If you take your HH into heavy but slowly moving traffic with no interference from wind, weather, temperature and stoplights
Where the real benefit arises is that with the HSD your combined mpg is often equal to your Highway mpg. OK so it's not the faulty EPA number but it is significantly better than any other vehicle in its class.
My ICE V6 HIghlander gets about 19-20 mpg combined. If yours is 26-28 mpg combined you are saving 30-40% over my guzzler.
mmreid
When I called my dealership they told me that I was supposed to see this light and that I would always see this light at start up which makes absolutely no sense to me. I called Toyota and they said that procedures to clear this message were in the regular Highlander manual but it instructions couldn't be located in the Hybrid manual.
Can anyone else shed some light on this? Thanks.
We did our 5000-mi at our local Toyota shop and they reset the warning after service.
If they refuse to *finish* this service item, then either they have no clue how to do it or they do not care and in either case, it is time to find another shop.
... look on page 159 under "Indicator Lights"
It is inexcusable for a dealership to tell a HH customer it is "normal" for the light to "remain ON". At least they should tell upstateny5 to reset it instead of passing on stupid information.
We had dealership not rotating our tires and yet claimed they did, they changed oil but left the old filter (mopped clean only), washed the engine compartment but left the old air filter, the list goes on. So we tag our replaceable items now so we can clearly identify new vs old, we also tag our tires so we can clearly see they have been rotated. Rotation also requires balancing, so we also tag the weight to be sure they balance the tires.
So far, this Toyota dealership has not disappointed us yet but they also know we tag everything.
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Sir, there is an unexpected problem when you have a car that are so new that it astonish garage attendants. They usually toy with your car because it is novel to them. I parked my brand new 06 car with less than one hundred miles on the meter, in a public garage with car jockeys that soufle parking spots. When I got my car back, all of the settings were changed.
It is an annoying problem to say the least.
Yours truly,
Manny
No, I'm not changing dealerships because they now really know who I am-the customer. I hope I don't have to mark tires and parts,like some of you, but I might put a small piece of tape on the hood the next time to see if they really opened it.
Since I'm a gambler, I'll wait until next year. besides with all the money we spent for xmas, buying a car is not on top of my list right now.
One of the problems with the hybrid vehicles is the sales process. Many people do some research and then go into a Toyota store and bump into a relative newbie or someone who has little or no interest in the hybrids and the sale is made.
To do it properly it takes at least an hour of delivery time and explanation of how the system works and what a driver can do to maximzize its potential.
Done otherwise the client is not fully prepared. None of my clients over the last 5 years have reported back with any out-of-the-norm experiences.
Possibly I or others here can assist you. I just bought a Prius last month and am getting just under the EPA numbers due likely to the winter weather.
I am now averaging 22 mpg....some on this board claim much higher mpg...but my personal experience has been dismal, despite all of the gimmicks, P&G, slow starts, tyre pressure, etc. etc.
As a long time Toyota owner I feel betrayed by all the hype that went on before the debut, and angered that I paid MSRP for suboptimal mileage performance.
Glad that I did'nt sell my Tundra, as that is what I'll be driving again. Which BTW averages 18 mpg...unloaded...I paid how much for 4 mpg more :mad:
Just my honest opinion...
This is my third Toyota over the past approx. 15 yrs. The two previous were bought new: Tercel and Corolla. I have always been very satisfied with my Toyotas, up until this Hylander Hybrid. I cannot believe Toyota is backing away from their original mileage estimates of 40 city, 32 highway back in March of '05. (I placed my order in April '05 and waited 8 months for delivery!) How dare the company now say the Hylander Hybrid is really "a performance vehicle" thus expect lousy mileage. Why would anyone, even someone interested in owning a "green" car pay $10,000 more for a hybrid when the mileage is only 2 mpg higher than the gas engine version?
I believe Toyota has opened itself up to a major lawsuit --there, I finally said it. Anyone else on board?
I want my $10,000 back.
Does your dealer have any kind of response to your displeasure? You are not alone. On a popular site that tracks hybrid mileage there are 57 HH owners posting their mileage. Only one person out of 57 are getting the EPA combined mileage. The overall average for 57 posters is just under 26 MPG.
I'm totally serious, I think we have a major lawsuit. I spoke to the Toyota Customer Experience Center on Thursday, to lodge my complaints - yes, for the 1st time w/Toyota after owning 2 others, I am experiencing more than 1 issue with this car. The Customer Relations rep from my local dealership called me Friday morning. He tried to be helpful with the other issues. As for the gas mileage, he told me he printed out 3 pages of "tips" for achieving better mileage and would give those to me when I have to take the car in for the other problems. In addition, he tried to give me the line about the Hylander being "a high performance vehicle".
I reinterated that was not how the car was originally marketed when we ordered it. I told him Toyota had dropped the mileage estimates twice in the 9 months since researching and ordering the car. I told him he better talk to the dealership owner and the corporation because we definitely had a problem.
I regularly shuttle up to 7 kids from school to various activities so our driving surface closely mirrors your 65-25-15% pattern. Fortunately, 80% of the terrain is relatively flat with barely discernible rises, some humps and few stops. The rest are highway overpasses, hilly freeways and steep dirt tracks on our property. The flatter terrain really helps with running on full electric.
Blessed with flatter terrain, we have been averaging 28 MPG through summer months but drops to around 23-MPG since winter began.
Sincerely hope you can resolve this to your satisfaction.
I think that when there is enough battery power to pull away from a light at normal (ie. everybody else's) pace and hold higher speeds in EV mode (not just on gentle to no acceleration) there will be a major easing in how tricky it is to maximize MPGs. I think the electric motors can handle it now, but they are limited by battery power flow restrictions.
I personally am satisfied with my purchase, even with the premium price, because I want to be involved in this sea change in automobile technology and like the idea of producing so much less emissions. Also, I am relatively happy with my MPGs, though more could always be better (maybe this coming spring and summer?).
Anyhow, maybe your mileage will improve over time. Best of luck and Happy New Year!
Also is there a big difference in MPG from the 4wd in the 2WD version?
Regards
My wife and I just made two trips from the Sacramento area to South Lake Tahoe last week. Chain controls were in effect but the road was mostly clear. The round trip is 230 miles. One trip we averaged 26.9 mpg and the other trip we averaged 27.5 mpg. This is without any special driving techniques what so ever. No complaints from me. Would I like it to deliver 35 mpg, 40 mpg, 45 mpg, 50 mpg? Sure, but that is not realistic at this time. Will the technology get better and will be see substantial improvement in mpg? You bet. Should I have waited to purchase a HH until after improvements are made? Nope. That is like waiting until Intel ships the P5. Improvements will come every year.
Wes
I do feel for owners who are not getting beyond 22-MPG. If they buy it just for the fuel-efficiency and not to replace older gas-guzzling cars, it will seem like a broken promise and a waste of money in such cases. We bought ours to replace an older V8 4x4 (12 MPG) and an aging van (20 MPG) so if our HH had been getting only 22-MPG, we would not be as happy but we would tolerate it. With it returning 26- to 28- miles per gallon, we are quite satisfied.
Toyota just introduced the 269-hp V6 (optional) RAV4, so continues the MEGA horsepower race
This is a characteristic of all vehicles whether hybrid or not. Our ICE Highlander only gets about 16-18 mpg on a 3 mi trip to the store. For any vehicle to get the best mileage you need to drive it for at least 10 min for it to warm up. If our Highlander goes 80 miles the first 5-10 miles might be at ~16 mpg but the rest will be ~22 mpg.
That's not a very sexy number but it's 30% better than 16 mpg.
As regards to Toyota I am sorry that you feel let down but I've been involved with the program on the sales side since 2001 ( just bought my own Prius ) and the only ratings that Toyota promoted on the HH was '.. up to 600 mile on a tank of gas..' A better phrase might have been '.. up to 50% better fuel economy than a conventional ICE vehicle..'. Also as you know the MPG ratings on the vehilce are put there by the EPA.
In driving my Prius I can say that the three most important factors in determining the fuel usage are:
1. weather - everyone will suffer about a 10% FE loss in winter;
2. length of trips - as noted above.
3. driver input - as several have noted there are ways to drive more efficiently, which may also include making less short trips and planning back to back to back usages.
It may also be that your particular driving ( low mileage and short trip lengths )will not allow you to get the 26-28 mpg economies that others who are in the vehicles for hours at a time do. But as I noted above if I took our ICE Highlander on only short 2 mile trips I would only average ~ 16 mpg and your 22 mpg is significantly better.
I am now wintering in Florida and there is a more sophisticated dealership here - perhaps I will go in and have a discussion about what is needed at 5,000 mile (what does C Best programming mean).
As a side note I am noticing that my mpg is going back up now that I am in warm temps. Unfortunately my trips are again short but as soon as I make several stops and extend my driving time the mpg goes up. ALthough the area is a little congested I still have some P&G opportunities.
I think you are giving a false perception. The Highlander V6 is rated at 18 city. So if you are getting 16 MPG in the winter on short trips that is not too bad. About 11% less than EPA estimates. If you are getting only 22 MPG with the HH on short trips in stop & go driving, where the HSD has been touted as superior , That is pretty poor mileage. The HH is rated at 31 MPG city. Getting 22 MPG is about a 30% loss in fuel economy. For a soccer mom that was hoping to save the big premium in fuel savings. Not much chance of that. I might repeat only two people posting their mileage on the GH website are getting the EPA combined mileage. That is for 78 owners of both the Lexus and Toyota RH & HH.
As a person closely associated with the Toyota organization I think it will take more than what you have posted for damage control. There are some very unhappy owners of both the Lexus RH and HH.
I would think that Edmund's posters make up less than 1% of owners. Fully half the owners posting are not happy with the mileage. They may still like the car. The ones that Toyota needs to deal with are the ones that would like to get rid of the car and get their money back.
You keep comparing the HH mileage to the non-hybrid Highlander. You need to compare the mileage to the HH premium and anticipation factor.
The dealership was supposed to call me yesterday. I'm still waiting to hear. By the way, on my last tank of gas I only got 20 mpg! That is pitiful. It included longer drives, including on the highway (55-60). Also, none of my "short" trips are under 5 miles. Whatever happened to that wonderful corporate adage of, "undersell, over deliver"?
I am sure all of us wish everyone can get great gas mileage. It is unfortunate not all of us can and I am sure those HH owners will act accordingly to remedy their situations.
The following is not to change anyone's mind, it is just to share how we see this gas saving issue.
For early-adapters of HH like my family, gas mileage is not the only focus. Practical needs first narrowed our choices to a minivan or a medium SUV and then conservation factors (emission rating, mpg) were applied as tie-breakers and the HH won. If we ignored the SULEV factor, we would have bought a van.
To us, the SULEV rating is just as important as saving gas. Living where we are and working with asthmatic children, emission is just as important as using less gas. Diesel is so efficient that it can be as good as gas-electric hybrid but its emission creates smog. Until better diesel cleaners are ready, gas-electric hybrid is the best alternative for now.
For us early adapters, the HH is a good step in the right direction. Its good mileage is icing on our cake. At worst, its mpg matches its ICE sibling but the HH is cleaner (SULEV), safer (VDIM) and more powerful (269-hp). The extra cash is buying something more.
Short of a miracle, large cars and trucks will never go away. Short of another miracle, our gas supply will only get more expensive as China & India pressure the market. I am not looking forward to economic wars or outright shooting wars over shrinking gasoline supply.
The better we can reduce or eliminate emission and reduce or eliminate dependency on gasoline, the better it is for everyone. May be in 10 years, everyone can chug along in a monster 16-passenger 650-hp AT-PZEV HUMMER SUV that uses no gasoline
First, the mileage that Toyota advertises is a number generated by the EPA, not by Toyota. *BY LAW*, Toyota and all other car manufacturers are not allowed to advertise anything other than the EPA numbers. (If anyone has an actual ad from Toyota that advertises an actual MPG number with something else on it, I'd love to see it.) Best of luck suing the EPA on that score.
But I think the actual situation is being blown way out of proportion anyway. Looking at the database on GH, people with the 2wd HH are getting an average of 25.8 MPG, where the EPA combined estimate is 30 MPG. That's 86% of the EPA number. For the 4wd, EPA combined is 29 MPG and people are averaging 25.4, which is 87.6% of the EPA number. Those are NOT BAD at all!
I would guess most people get about 85% of the EPA estimates (maybe even less) in non-hybrid vehicles, too. This is because the EPA test is unrealistic (55 mph on the highway, no air conditioning, etc.). Heck, Consumer Reports just did a big piece a few months ago on how virtually no cars got the EPA numbers in their tests. This affects some cars more than others, and maybe hybrids are more prone to this--but that's not Toyota's fault, it's the EPA's fault. Now, in absolute terms this might seem a bit disappointing because losing 15% of 30 MPG is obviously more than losing 15% of 20 MPG, but still.
Consider the V6 non-hybrid Highlander. Combined mileage 21 for the 4wd. If real-world performance is 87.6% of that, you should get 18.2 MPG, which is 7.2 MPG less than the HH. That's not bad, plus you get all the stuff cdptrap mentioned: better safety, better emissions, better performance. People pay thousands of dollars all the time for better safety and performance (e.g. V6 Accord vs. I4 Accord), but then get *worse* mileage and emissions out of the deal. So the $4500 premium for better safety/performance and more "green" doesn't seem like a bad deal at all. (Unless, of course, you are completely myopic and care ONLY about the mileage part--all I can say to that is "should have done your homework before blowing $35-40K.")
Will you get the EPA mileage out of your HH? No, probably not--nor are you likely to actually get the EPA mileage out of most other vehicles, either. I see no evidence that the problem is worse in the HH than it is in other vehicles. Is the HH for everybody? No. It is undoubtedly expensive. But the HH is a very solid vehicle which I don't think is under-delivering at all.
I do about 75% of my driving on the highway (setting the cruise control at 60-65 MPH) and the other half on surface roads. I live in Houston, so I have to deal with plenty of stop lights and traffic. I even fairly regularly take short trips for lunch.
With that traffic, I also cannot do the P&G driving that many folks around here love so much. When I do come from a stop, I get up to 1 or 2 MPH over my desired speed, coast down to my desired speed to cut off the ICE, and then apply very light pressure to the accelerator pedal to maintain speed. Once the ICE has warmed up, I can usually run on battery power alone for quite a distance, provided I'm driving at or under 40 MPH. When I'm approaching a red light or stop sign, I coast for quite a while, and I brake from further back and with lighter pressure that I used to in my former vehicle. That helps the battery quite a bit. Driving around town in that fashion, I've taken my average MPG over 30. It's taken some conscious effort, research (on this board, mostly) and practice to get my mileage up to that level, but it's fairly natural now.
Using cruise control on the highway (and even on some surface streets) makes a significant difference. I had to get used to the speed variation on the highway, but it's worth the mileage. I also coast or brake down exit ramps to intersections as much as possible. You don't need to do a lot of battery driving to significantly increase your MPG.
Now, I do generally drive by myself, except for those short lunch trips. I'm sure that adding a bunch of weight would affect my numbers. That said, though, I've carried about 250 pounds of equipment several miles at 35 MPH on surface streets, and I traveled a long way under battery power.
Short trips really do give a big hickey to your mileage, in any case, and especially during cold weather. As someone pointed out before on this forum, until that ICE warms up, you're just driving around a regular ICE Highlander with the added weight of the hybrid system. When the weather is cold, the ICE warms up more slowly, has to warm up more, and cools down more quickly between trips.
Not much can be done for owners who are not seeing the mpg many of us are seeing. Suing Toyota over EPA numbers truly is akin to suing EPA. Independent source of EPA info:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml
I also am uncertain what to make of a post earlier that seems to imply the regular-Hi getting 16-mpg, -11% below EPA, is better than the HH getting 22-mpg, -30% below EPA. So a V6 gas engine car getting 16-mpg is better than a "V8-like" V6 car getting 22-mpg?
If we compare only the percentages, and applying the same logic, then the GM Hybrid Silverado that saw a gain of +12% from 17-mpg to 19-mpg must be better than the HH who saw a loss of -30% to 22-mpg? We should all buy the Silverado then and be happy we are getting 19-mpg because it is a +12% improvement in fuel economy?
Not to cause anyone grief but I am a bit confused by the logic. I know it is attempting to look at whether the $10K premium is worth it. Again, people forget the car is V8 like, has more safety features (VDIM) and is a SULEV vehicle. The $10K is not just for the same V6 210-hp Hi with gas-electric engine.
In any case, best of luck to you all who are having trouble with the mpg number. I hope it gets better as the weather warms.
I have no lease info because we bought ours. But you may have found out from the dealership now that there is no DVD entertainment option on the HH. It does have the DVD Navigation system.
You can check Green Hybrid website's database to get a feel for the reported mpg. Last I looked, the mileage between the 2WD and the 4WD is very close
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/
The chart will show both the 2WD and 4WD and clicking on each bar will take you to more details. I used to add my mileage data there but have been too busy lately. Will update next time.
You may also have read here about other owners (2) who are unhappy with their mileage so it is the honest truth when they say, "Your mileage will vary".
It is best to not think of the HH as a gas-saver like the Prius but as a street-SUV that happens to have a gas-electric engine. If you do not need an SUV, then Prius or other Honda hybrids will do very well. If you do need a medium SUV and the Highlander fits your size requirements, the HH is a worthy option to consider. We dislike its smallish cargo behind the second bench but it is tolerable.
It is common to compare prices and ask why spend $10K more? Only you can judge. The HH has added safety called Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM), it is rated SULEV (CA) and it does perform like a V8 with instantaneous torque. If you are also able to get good mileage off this car, then the extra $10K buys you 4 improvements over the regular gas-engine Highlander.
Last time I checked, the VDIM offering is unique in this class, you have to pay more for something similar in Mercedes and other luxury models.
Regards
I've thought the same thing. All these hybrid owners that become Hypermilers to try and prove the hybrid system is worth the extra cash. If they would do the same with an ICE only vehicle they would save gas money and the premium they paid on the Hybrid. I guess a new awareness is a real plus for the hybrids.
While they're still only one source, Consumer Reports (review was sometime fall 2005) still runs consistent, standards based tests on vehicles and their mileage on the hybrid Highlander was a good increment better than the ICE version. I doubt their test drivers were doing any special driving to squeeze out extra miles. CR also rated the HH highest in its class (closely followed by the Lexus 400), from memory they rated them as the only Excellent in the class. And CR pretty consistently gets significantly worse mileage than EPA "estimates" following their standard tests for city, highway and mixed driving. CR's report hits on many of the points that drew us to purchasing an HH - and the downsides (If you're buying it _only_ to save money through higher mileage you'll be disappointed was I believe how the review started...).
I have to disagree that _Toyota_ was making any outrageous claims, the EPA mileage was clearly stated, as required by law, and doing comparisons with other vehicles using CR, Edmonds and other sources showed, at least to me, comparable differences, recognizing that EPA numbers are not real world. Dealers/sales people may have misrepresented these numbers and other things to some folks (ours did not, but we bought through Web purchasing, did our research totally online until we went in to talk purchase and didn't deal with any sales pitch from any sales person - and out dealer wasn't charging premiums or playing other games either, this is the third Toyota we've purchased or had serviced there and they've always been fair, also the largest in the area and we know others equally pleased with their prices and service). Toyota's literature that we read stated the EPA numbers and that's it, and we read and researched a lot before making this choice. CR this fall (could have been same issue, don't remember) also had a piece on the vast variations between EPA mileage - high and low - and real world, but it was more a condemnation of the whole process and pointed out how really flawed it is. CR of course thinks theirs is better, other reviewers that approach mileage in a scientific way will vary from EPA too.
Lastly, be fair and compare the HH and a similarly equipped Highlander and the price differential is more like $5000 than $10,000, which to me is an investment in a vehicle that gets better mileage, is lower polluting and rewards Toyota for its efforts and investment in making a vehicle that attempts to make our air cleaner and reduces our use of gasoline - this is a choice of a new technology that will inevitably cost less as it becomes more common, just like the computer I'm using now cost less than the one we purchased 10 years ago even though it is much more powerful, better featured and more capable, and it's an Apple so it also has a premium in the price for being a Mac. In vehicles, there were other choices, we made the choice to purchase an HH knowing that if we wanted to simply break even on gas savings the payback, if at all, would be over many years. A part of the price incremental is due to the "standard" extra safety features that are extra cost in 6 cyl Highlander, again something we wanted anyway as an investment in our safety and ability to survive an accident that we hope we'll never have. And we looked at similar non-hybrids in the lot just to see what was comparable, comparing options and EPA mileage to see what we were really getting for the premium.
But we also have signed up with out local electric company to use 100% wind-generated power, which is _more_ expensive than standard generated (in an area where electricity is already much higher than the national average). It lights the lights the same, but we're again rewarding investors for developing alternatives to fossil and atomic fuels and reducing air pollution.
It's unfortunate that some folks are not finding their HH up to their expectations. I'm not disagreeing with what they believe, but our experience has been different. Would we make the same choice again? Absolutely. Would we have liked it to be less expensive? Sure, and in 10 years - hopefully - when we get to doing a trade in and have run this one into the ground, it will have had the typical in our experience Toyota dependibility and the technology would have matured and become more common that the premium will have disappeared. So far it's great to drive and has met our expectations in every respect. - John
Here's a likely scenario too if this happened.. more people would drive the speed limits. Less fuel is used at 65 vs 75 and 55 vs 65 and 45 vs 55, etc.
Ouch! So we want to save the environment (SULEV) and we want to save gas, so we spend our hard-earned cash and take the initial risk to be early adapters, then we work hard at squeezing out the extra mile to save gas and that is considered trying to prove/justify our purchase?
If they would do the same with an ICE only vehicle they would save gas money and the premium they paid on the Hybrid.
Really?
Please list a 2006 gas-engine car that has the same horsepower & torque, size, EPA numbers, SULEV rating and has VDIM or similar. Will love to know the price too. We will love to check into it as a possible replacement for our other aging van.
By the way, we have been hypermiling since the gas-crisis of the 70's. Ain't never had no need to prove nothin' to no one yet.
So we should stop driving carefully to get better mileage because we are just wasting time proving this thing works.
AND for you out there considering the Highlander Hybrid, buy the HUMMER H2 V8 or the LandCruiser or may be the Ford Explorer and hypermile the heck out of them! You can do just as well.
As for me, it is too late, I will just solemnly continue to justify my purchase by continuing to get the painfully low 28-mpg
On this I am in full agreement with you this year. I sell them but I think the HH was an intermediate step only and only a convenience :surprise: . The Lexus hybrid had been announced to overwhelming demand ( 12000 preorders ) so making the HH with the HSD linked to the V6 was a natural. But for the typical Toyota buyer the correct link should have been to the 2.4L I4.
My own opinion is that they would/will sell more HH if the HSD+I4 were offered as you say with V6 power and 30+ mpg combined. For the typical Toyota buyer the Hybrid V6 is probably too much vehicle as is the HAH V6. OTOH with limited supply of components at the moment maybe a small volume of V6 HH is the correct strategy.
Next year with the launch of a new model Highlander I think it makes sense to offer a 2.4L HSD HH possibly in replacement of the V6 HH and leave the V6 +HSD for the Lexus line.
Now the 3.3L ICE V6 gets about 220 hp SAE.
Next year with the 3.5L ICE V6 gettting about 268 hp SAE having the 2.4L HSD offering ~200 hp SAE plus 30 mpg combined makes better sense IMO.
But don't ask about highway MPG, any ICE only equipped vehicle of equal weight and size can beat it easily.
I don't buy this. My wife is the primary driver of our HH and she's read exactly *zero* about hypermiling techniques and, if anything, has *more* of a lead foot now since she has more power at hand. She NEVER uses cruise control, despite my urging.
Yet, she's getting right around 25 MPG combined (4wd).
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AUTO_SURVEY?SITE=SALEM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPL- ATE=DEFAULT
Also, I took my HH in to local dealer for the 5,000 mile tune-up and they forgot to re-set the odometer so that annoying light kept coming on. I called them after the directions posted here didn't fix the problem. It turned out that I was pressing the wrong button. Duh. . .Anyway, the dealership suggested you turn the car on, make sure you are on the odometer setting of actual mileage and not the trip mileage and then turn the car off, hold the odometer/set button (the one on the left, not the one on the miles per hour screen like I was doing), turn the car back on still holding the button down and don't have your foot on the brake. When I did that it reset quickly in a few seconds. Whew.
I came back from Christmas holiday vacation to read all the posts about folks unhappy with mileage. I can only say my mileage has been gradually going up and I'm averaging around 25 city and higher on the interstate. Almost all my driving is very heavy stop and go, short trips around town with lots of turning the car on and off as I run errands. I wondered if my mileage is going up since I'm not needing the air conditioning as much (I live in northern Florida) but not really very cold either.
I still love my HH and have been very happy with its performance. I happen to like the fact that if I get behind a crazy driver the car has the acceleration to get the heck away from that guy/gal, I like the visibility that I didn't have in my small car I traded this for (which got lower mpg) and I'm super comfortable in it. It is now our car of choice for road trips. I like the environmental factors and taking the risk of being into the new technology.
Not long ago we gave a ride to a band our son-in-law plays in and the singer, a fairly well known country rock musician and songwriter absolutely flipped over the HH. This is a guy who can basically afford to drive anything he wants to and has an Acura MDX (which is about the same price as the HH Limited). He is very environmentally conscious and his comment to us was: "You know, I need to put my money where my mouth is and trade my car in for one of these." He was really impressed with the vehicle.
So I guess what I feel is that it is more than just the mpg for me. I think this is the best car I've ever driven. Is it perfect? No. But I'm a very satisfied consumer.
mmreid
Our 3.3L Plymouth Grand Voyager is averaging 21 MPG in mixed town (35-45 MPH) roads and Highway. Most of the lights aren't synchronized so there is way too much stop and go. I told her our next vehicle would have to be run on hydrogen or be a hybrid. She insisted it needed to be a SUV.
In temperatures of 41-45 degrees F, flat terrain, and no attention paid to saving gas, she consistently gets 27.5 MPG driving the HH. The mileage is pretty consistent even if we go on long trips or do mostly short trip town driving. This is in a mid-sized SUV with a 3.3L V-6, 3,500lb towing capacity, and plenty of power to spare.
I keep my vehicles well past 10 years and 150K miles. I will make up any extra money I may have put into the vehicle and am happy that I am close to the combined EPA numbers. CR has run articles on how poorly EPA estimates reflect reality. I don't know how they drove to get their numbers so low but I believe it had the best numbers in class and was also top rated.
I'm satisfied and I never expected Prius type mileage in a 4 wheel drive vehicle that performs like a V-8 and can tow more than I currently have a need for.
An interior light drained the 12v. I remember some discussion of things that had to be reset (like the moonroof). Is there anything else that needs to be programmed again?
I was really sad to see all the memorized points on the NAV screen were gone :-(
I have been following the forum since October 05 catching up on back dated post and checking in on other forums as well such as Toy Nation etc. .I received My HH Limited w/ NAV first week of December . Ordered Late Oct .. And waited only 7 1/2 weeks for delivery to the states.
I have 1400 miles now logged of which the driving is a combo of Hwy and City.. The driving has been approx 60 miles per day 40 Hwy ( N.J. TPK ) and 16 City . (8 miles Manhattan , and 8 miles the outer Boroughs of NYC ) including and 4 miles of River Tunnel crossings.
This ride includes level and inclined HYW traverses with 3 major bridge crossings ( 6 considering round trip ) as well as 2 hwy and 1 tunnel toll stations (. for a total of 6 toll stations for the 60 mile round trip )
Avg. hwy speed traveled is 50 to 65 MPH ..City speed varies with traffic and signal lights but is less than 40 MPH.
My AVG MPG reading as per the( DVD Nav) for the 1400 miles is 29.2 MPG which now includes 5 station fill up for a total of 48 gal of Premium gas using only Shell oil company fuel stations.
Two passengers with combined wt of approx 330 lbs.
Tires maintained at 34 PSI from delivery to present day
Fuel used Shell Premium Gas
At approximately 900 miles . I noticed an improvement in the electric only drive in the city even at acceleration . And can very often maintain above 30 MPH on electric only .
Out door air temeptures ranged between 24 F to 44 F
Dislikes
. Review mirror Auto Dim defaults to always on
. No memory for the electric seat adjustment
..Poor accessory illumination ( doors switches and locks ,.power mirror controls , no courtesy floor lighting )
. Lack of an RCA audio jack to interface with DVD /navigation system ( would be useful with I pod interface )
...... Interior heating settings are on the low side of accurate
.......Sound System .. needs improvement.
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Likes
.....Pick Up and Passing power .. Excelent
.....Ride.... .... Very Good
.....Steering .... Very Good
.....Visibility ... Very Good
.....Navagation Program .... Outstanding ( comparied to hand help or pocket pc versions ..Garman /TeleType )
Third row seating....GOOD ( when using the tilt back adjustment)
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