Luxury Performance Sedans

drtravel

March thru May total sales

5 = 12,131
E = 10,908
STS = 9,841
GS = 9,548
M = 6,711
A6 = 4,629
RL = 4,084

Total = 57,852

Considering that brand new E's, GS's and M's were introduced in March, it's quite a testiment that the "old" 5 has still outsold them all.

chef_jmr

I don't know what numbers you guys are looking at, but Audi reported 7,102 year-to-date A6 sales, compared to same period 2004 of 5,376, that is an increase of 32.1%!!!

I don't think Audi is fretting over those numbers... Assuming last year there were more incentives to purge their inventories to make way for the "new" A6, the -4.7% loss on month-to-month (May '05/May '04) is inconsequential. The year-to-date for the new model is more important to corporate. (And the numbers I am looking at are only for the US, the EU is eating up these cars...)

I would be more concerned about the TT figures, down 44.2%.

Check out Fourtitude.com for the sales figures.

Jeff

lexusguy

Uh. brand new E? The 3.5L 6 may be new, but the E class is much older than the 5 series. As for the GS and M, I think both Lexus and Infiniti are very pleased with their sales performance. Lexus especially is within a few hundred cars of the LONG established leaders, and Infiniti's performance is remarkable considering the last M was a joke that sold about 8 cars a month.

bartalk3

What's really surprising about these sales figures are: 1) the strong showing of the 5 Series, despite lots of bad press and huge, new Japanese competition; 2) the high sales of the E, despite all kinds of reliability problems, and 3) the amazing strength of the Cadillac, despite GM's woes and their mediocre ratings in the magazine comparos. Who's buying the STS anyway? Certainly not senior De Ville buyers. Conquests from Germany and Japan? That seems unlikely, too.

maxhonda99

"but Audi reported 7,102 year-to-date A6 sales, compared to same period 2004 of 5,376, that is an increase of 32.1%!!! "

The average for the year is about 1,400/month. Compared to the competition it's not doing well. The last time the A6 was redesigned in the late 90's, it was selling in much greater numbers, on average it's first few years it was doing about 2 to 3K/month in the US.

jjacura

Interesting how folks read sales numbers and interpret what they want. If you look at the May sales vs. April sales every model except the RL dropped off in total, and the 5 's numbers were off the most with a 21% drop.

rich545

Like just about every other way to compare cars, sales numbers can be misleading for several reasons. If we take a given month from one year and compare the sales the next year and look only at the numbers we may be missing some ingredients. Such as, were most dealers offering greater incentives in either year? Or what year in the model's lifespan each year represents. Or what the overall economy is like. I would say that from a company finance perspective, most companies look at quarterly rather than monthly results. So it's probably more important to Acura, BMW, Audi, Infiniti and Lexus to look at quarterly numbers. A down month doesn't necessarily indicate a bad quarter. Overall I would think that if car companies hit their quarterly and annual sales goals for given models they are happy. BTW, thanks to all for the help with the Dell/iPod question. I'd really hate to have to get rid of the Dell and load everything onto an IPod!

lexusguy

Are 5 and E really so strong? How long have these models been around vs. GS? There's not much of a spread between 1st and 4th place. While I'm impressed with what GS and M have been able to accomplish so far, its still way to early to really get an idea of whats going to happen in the segment. The real story will be 2-3 years from now. Will GS and M be able to maintain their numbers, or will they repeat history and fall off the radar screen?

I'm not that surprised by the STS. There's still an entire generation of people that wont consider anything but American, and since the LS is basically a joke at this point, that makes it "which cadillac would you like to buy today, sir?" How did the Seville do during its life sales wise? It didnt exactly light the magazines on fire, but I certainly see plenty on the road, and I'm willing to bet most Seville owners would be happy to upgrade to an STS. Also, the STS enjoys fleet sales that really arent available to other cars in the class.

hpowders

"Since the LS is basically a joke at this point."
Do you have the latest sales figures month over month for the LS? I didn't see them in the list.
The 5 really took a beating. The only language they apparently understand at BMW. But one month does not a trend make.
With all the negative feedback on iDrive from consumers and auto rags, a BMW executive came out recently with "iDrive is here to stay."

chef_jmr

Your argument works based purely on the sales figures.

However, one must take into account the production numbers. If Audi is only producing 1400 cars/month for our market, then their numbers are looking pretty good from their inventory standpoint. If they are producing 3000 cars/month, then they will be experiencing some serious backlog. They don't have to outsell Lexus, Infiniti etc. unit for unit, as long as their bottom line is in order... I find these discussion somewhat futile when ALL the facts are not disclosed.

cstiles

I live in central, rural Illinois and the majority of cars here are domestic. In spite of most people associating Illinois as a Democratic stronghold (thanks to Chicago and down south by St. Louis), most of the Illinois heartland is strong Republican country. There are quite a few STS's, SRX's, and even CTS's around here. Heck, I even see an occasional Catera every couple weeks, but fortunately no Cimarrons as they have rusted their way back into the soil.

As you stated, there is still a strong and loyal domestic car following across much of rural America. Lots of pickups and barge-like SUV's here, in addition to Cadillacs. Not as many, but there are also some Lincoln LS's moving off the lots here.

The nearest Acura dealer is 120 miles away. So I have the ONLY RL in my community of 100,000 people. Talk about exclusivity! There's another guy here who drives a VW Phaeton....likely the only one between here and Peoria.

Although Acura sales were up +9%, total Honda sales dropped -14% in May. Honda still only averages about $400 per car on incentives. Toyota's average is close to $1000, and the domestics are over $4500 per vehicle in rebates. Interesting announcement by GM to extend employee discounts to any consumer, in their attempts to distance themselves from these huge incentives. Not sure if the gambit is going to work.

The $599 lease on the RL (with around $3500 down) is not that great of a deal, relatively speaking. They could sweeten the pot some more if they really felt they needed to. It will be interesting to watch as we approach the release of the 2006 RL.

bartalk3

cstiles: I also have the (mis)fortune of living in rural (well, smallish town) central Illinois at the moment. Coincidence. The nearest Acura dealer to us is in Chicago, about 120 miles northeast of here on I55 (does that convey where we are?)

When I was considering an Acura, I was told by both their 800 number headquarters and by a Chicago Acura dealer that if you have an Acura and live more than about 70 miles from an Acura dealer, any local Honda dealer will service your car and honor your warranty.

Whether Honda mechanics know what's what about the complicated RL, I don't know, but it's reassuring that warranty work is as close as your nearest Honda dealer.

cstiles

Small world...I'm an Oregon Duck "stuck" in Bloomington! But we like it here as it's a good place to raise 3 young kids. Joe Rizza is the closest dealer to us up in Orland Park. Someday there has to be an Acura dealer to serve Peoria, Champaign, Blm-Normal, and Springfield. Someone should be able to make a mint doing that. Take care!

bartalk3

Very small world. Yes, nice place to raise kids and lots of affordable housing... I don't think I've seen your car around town. What color is it? Occasionally I see a stray TL, True, there should be an Acura dealer serving this area. I assume you bought your car at Joe Rizza. Do you take it there for service or warranty work? Has that been inconvenient, or have you not had many repair/warranty problems? I'm considering a Lexus GS; Peoria dealer is fairly accessible, but they have limited supply and aren't very flexible on price, I think.

merc1

What's faster?: The E55 or the CLS 55?

They should be the same, but I'd bet the E55 is .2 secs faster due to being a little lighter.

M

merc1

The 3.5L 6 may be new, but the E class is much older than the 5 series.

Only one model year older.

M

cstiles

Yep, we got ours at Rizza. Our RL only has 3000 miles and so far, no problems at all. My wife drives it 80% and she works at SF Corp. I'm at the SF IL office. I know a few people who have dealt with Lexus of Peoria, and deals are definitely available. Not sure about the GS since it's still fairly new, but I bet you could swing a decent deal if you were serious. Over the years, I've dealt with Sud's (Audi), Barker (my Honda), and Leman (Mazda). Take care.

rich545

Not trying to start an argument on this, but I think we should stay away from generalizations about the car buying habits of Republicans and Democrats. I live in the 'burbs of Chicago which are also strongly Republican, and I see mostly foreign cars here. In fact, I moved here from NY about a year and a half ago and I can't believe how Republican it is. Anyway, it seems that everyone my wife is related to or knows are Republicans and I can't think of many that don't drive either BMW's or Mercedes. That one guy with the Phaeton may be the only person in the state with one actually! VW has probably only sold enough of them to have one in each state. All of this being said however, I do see quite a few Caddie's here which was surprising when I first moved here.

lexusguy

"Whether Honda mechanics know what's what about the complicated RL, I don't know, but it's reassuring that warranty work is as close as your nearest Honda dealer."

The RL does share some basic componentry with the Accord, and I'm sure that any Honda shop would be familiar with the 3.5L engine. Wether they could fix some of the more complicated electronics or SH-AWD parts, that I'm not sure about.

maxhonda99

"However, one must take into account the production numbers. If Audi is only producing 1400 cars/month for our market,"

Manufacturer's supply the necessary amount of products based on demand. It's not like Audi is Ferrari, where they purposely keep supply levels way below demand levels.

lexusguy

What we would need is Audi's sales goal for the A6 or expected numbers. If Audi was expecting 10,000 a year, they are on fire. If they were expecting 16,000, they are on target. If they wanted 20,000 like Acura does, they are going to miss.

msu79gt82

Interesting how folks read sales numbers and interpret what they want. If you look at the May sales vs. April sales every model except the RL dropped off in total, and the 5 's numbers were off the most with a 21% drop.

I was quoted $4300 off MSRP in May and still didn't pull the trigger yet; I know it can be had for even less if I want it. Yes RL sales went up in May vs. April; however it took drastic sales price drops and Acura Lease Incentives to do it.

bartalk3

rich545;

The NY Times published an amusing survey on the car-buying habits of Republicans and Democrats awhile back. I think Subaru has now replaced Volvo as the most heavily Democratic car.

cstiles

Good point, Rich. Don't want to argue about this either, but perhaps what you are suggesting is that white collar, upper income Republicans and Democrats equally desire luxury performance cars. And most luxury brands happen to be foreign.

I was merely offering observations about the buying preferences of those in rural, mostly blue collar, mostly Caucasian, generally conservative America, in response to someone asking who the heck is buying all these Cadillacs.

I didn't mean to generalize that Republicans buy domestic while Democrats buy foreign.

kdshapiro

"I didn't mean to generalize that Republicans buy domestic while Democrats buy foreign."

Wow. I'll relay that information to my Republican Mercedes/BMW buying friends.

cstiles

Oh, the RL is white. Not my first choice in colors, but it's not my car, either!

bartalk3

When we moved from New York to central Illinois a few years ago, I expected to see almost exclusively Detroit iron. I was amazed at how much Honda and Toyota (as well as other foreign makes) had penetrated the heartland. At that time I figured that if foreign cars had even penetrated here, Detroit was in real trouble. Of course, it's gotten even worse (from Detroit's perspective) since. Having grown up with GM at 50% market share and Ford at about 25, it's a new world I can hardly understand. I'm worried about the country. The transplants don't provide nearly as much auto employment as the domestics. If Detroit continues to sink (along with so many suppliers), where are we?

markcincinnati

All good points, all hit some target's bulls-eye.

This report showing Audi has slipped to the bottom of the heap has to be particularly galling (to Audi and its most loyal fans) no matter how we try to spin it.

Were I a completely objective observer (I'm not) and at least somewhat aware of the concepts of "retailing" (I'm at least an amateur at this), I would think that the Audi being a newer model than the Acura, BMW and Mercedes, that it ought to be able to "lead" something.

But last month, the sales were next to last and this month they slipped to last place. The "new" Bimmer 5 was barely hitting the dealers' inventories in May, so you can perhaps understand the decline in sales for BMW. Further, there has been a "pause" in car sales perhaps precipitated by gas price concerns -- but one has to acknowledge that this is less of a factor when one is talking about $50K automobiles.

The Lexus is very new and the Infiniti is pretty new, but fundamentally the Audi is not a "stale" car -- and it has received tremendous accolades: "The Best Car in the World" kind of thing, don't you know?

Yet with its newness, accolades and apparent competitive position it can't even lead the RL which for reasons I am at a loss to explain has somehow apparently become so yesterday.

The Audi -- to read the press releases available all over the web, and at the bricks locations, is one of the two "IT" cars (the other being the "M"). Yet the Audi cannot seem to gain enough momentum to propel it out of last or next to last place.

Being somewhat of a student of economics (and to support some of the above comments) this simply seems to be a demand issue. For I am pretty certain that if 2,600 willing buyers would have shown up in May that Audi would have been happy to "take their money." There is no deliberate action meant to "cap" sales at 1,300 or whatever. Supply could be the issue, but it is highly unlikely, that is.

The Audi for whatever reason is simply not competitive. Either it needs to find the correct price point to stimulate additional demand or the value proposition needs to be 'splained via the marketing machine.

My belief is that we have a failure to communicate the value proposition -- unfortunately, that simply means (for the short term) that Audi needs to be, once again, perceived as the high-value Premium Class car, rather than the high-priced Premium Class car.

Audi did this previously and the results were similar. In 1996, I bought a new Audi A8. This car was well into the $70,000's as I configured it (Pearl White paint even). It did have a 5spd auto, but not a tiptronic. Within one model year cycle the content went up and the price went down -- imagine my chagrin when I looked at the 1998 and 1999 A8's that in some cases were $10,000 less than I paid and with higher content.

This, IMO, is where Audi sits today. The 2001 - 2004 Audi A6's were relative bargains (and remember how terrible the economy was after 911 and the bubble bursting, etc etc etc -- not to mention fears of deflation, recession and some even hyper ventilated the term depression?) Moreover, at that time Audi still had quattro as yet another "Audi advantage."

We are seeing in some respects the squandering of Audis distinctiveness coupled with bringing out an apparently well liked car that underperforms the last year's crop and yet has the temerity to ask for a higher price.

I also agree, one month does not a trend make. But this is more like multiple months where the Audi languishes at or near the bottom of the class.

Audi cannot possibly be pleased to see its American unit sliding when elsewhere things -- relatively speaking -- are hunky dory (check out the global performance and then contrast it with the NA performance). Audi is finding it difficult -- apparently -- to compete in our market.

lexusguy

Well, Camry, Accord, and Altima are all built right here in the USA. Even Hyundai is now building Sonatas here. I'm sure you've seen their ads about their new 'bama plant. Frankly I dont have any pity for Detroit. The place they are in right now is entirely their own doing. One thing that is interesting though is that the domestic automakers have under 60% share. Its not like that in Europe or Japan. Europeans buy something like 70% European cars, and Toyota has a market share in Japan like GM did here in the '50s.

rich545

Actually I agree that when you drive through rural America you'll see mostly domestic cars. Of course, the same is true in every country that produces cars. I think it really has more to do with income rather than politcal affiliation though. It's easy to say you'll only buy American if you can only spend $15-$20K on a car because most American cars fall into that price range. Now that there is a greater array of Asian cars in that range as well I think we see more and more of them in rural America. Where the true measure of whether or not someone would really only buy American is if they had the choice between buying any of the top luxury/sport sedans and after test driving them they still picked the STS or CTS.

rich545

I guess it makes sense that if you're a tree-hugger you should buy a Forrester! Just kidding! I know, bad joke. Being a left-leaning independent myself I guess I feel the right to point some fun at Democrats. Hell, here in Oak Brook, IL I'm surprised they don't make us wear special pins or something like that just so they can easily pick us out. On Volvo though, I rented the AWD station wagon once and was really unimpressed by it. It felt like an American car which makes sense I guess. Seats were too soft and the handling was mushy.

cstiles

Mark---I believe that the new Audi grille is one of the culprits here. It's a polarizing design, and is driving some people (even Audi-istas) away. And there are a lot of great alternatives out there, to your point about the A6 not being competitive or having the right value proposition.

But that schnoz is an issue, for sure.

The B9 Tribeca also faces a similar prospect, due to its pug nose. Besides the fact Subaru saddled it with a very silly name to match its funny face. Somebody flunked Marketing 101.

docnukem

No question about the grille. When you turn off (guessing) over half of your target audience based on what the front end looks like, you will have problems.

I know some people like it, but I just think of a giant fishhook and worm dangling in front it.

Okay, enough "carping" about the grille. (Well Rich545 started the bad jokes with the Forrester/Tree hugger line).

lexusguy

I suspect that the B9 name will be dropped, similar to "Pathfinder Armada". B apparently stands for "boxer engine" as if we thought they were going to use a V6 or something, and 9 is some platform designation thing nobody cares about. I agree that using both a letter\number combo AND a name on a car at once is kind of stupid. It would be like if Acura called it the 3.5RL Legend.

cstiles

B9 also sounds like "benign." Not exactly the image one wants for an SUV-like conveyance.

Tribeca is also a section of New York City. The "Triangle Below Canal Street."

It's also an old Kenny G song.

But not an SUV.

That happens to look like a pug.

docnukem

But that pug is a most ferocious beast...

It's got big pointy teeth.....
It can jump.......
Look at the bones!

(with thanks to Tim the Enchanter--speaking of names that don't exactly inspire awe)

chef_jmr

I don't find the new Audi schnoz so polarizing...especially if compared to the leap Bimmer took with the 5-series. At least, if you look at the previous Audi line, you can see the progression to the pronounced grill design. What was Bimmer smoking when taking that jump?

As for the sales, I do believe that the performance numbers for the Infiniti M are definitely lifting that model over the A6. I would rather have the M's performance in the A6, but have come to the conclusion that the 6's interior and ride is better suited to my work and lifestyle.

Mark, I agree with your rational regarding the A6's sales numbers. Perhaps this will be the impetus for Audi to offer more attractive leasing deals AND package more options together at a reduced price. Hopefully soon, I will be purchasing this Fall. We shall see...

docnukem

Not to belabor the point (too late...), but that was what I was trying to say (sorry if I was too hook-...er...tongue-in-cheek). Some people don't mind the schnozz. When I first saw it, I was frankly aghast. Others think it is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. But I know that there are many like me who basically said, "No thanks", the moment they saw it. That immediately cuts down on the pool of potential buyers.

On the other hand, I am one of the few on these boards (or so it seems from the postings) who really likes the appearance of the 5 and 7 series (yes, both the front AND the back). Many here must have had the same reaction to the BMW's restyling that I did when I saw the A6 grille.

As they say, different strokes...

markcincinnati

No one ever asked me, but here is what I would say to Audi.

Hold the line with respect to the MSRP.

Simplify the packages.

Don't even consider charging extra for keyless ignition ($750? what are they smokin') or voice activation ($350 is a little easier to take, however.) Make these things standard.

Do whatever it takes to get the performance up to the rest of the crowd -- none of this "the 3.2 was meant to replace the 3.0, not the 2.7T S-Line!" Right, er, sure, sure it was and when I tell my wife, Morgan Fairchild, about this. . . .

Improve the performance, it IS an issue at this time. Not for me, not too much, but man o man, Audi gets hammered for the leisurely pace that the new A6 3.2 attains speed -- in sharp contrast to the rushhhh to speed of the previously offered (and similarly priced) A6 2.7T S-Line.

The performance issue simply means lower the final drive ratio, improve the breathing to improve the HP and torque, hire someone to reprogram the engine management system -- do whatever it takes, this engine in THIS market doesn't produce the expected levels of acceleration. In some cases it is all about bragging rights. I must assume the 255HP BMW 5x cars will out accelerate and out handle the A6. Don't give excuses and rationalizations -- put it behind you by not making it an issue any more.

Subvent the leases at exactly 36 or 39 months to make certain that your customers (now almost at 50% who lease) are always in the cocoon of The Audi Advantage.

Communicate with your customers (both from AoA and from the dealer level).

Every time I get my Audi serviced, I get a voice mail at my house during normal business hours asking for my feedback, but never leaving a call back number -- Doh!

Survey us using the web for Pete's sake. Communicate with us via the web too -- what an easy and cheap way to stay in front of the customers.

And, while I'm at it, I do understand that the snoz on the new Audis is polarizing, but I cannot believe the same is/was not true with the design of the new BMW's (the 5 is so ugly, I have to avert my eyes) -- yet there they are month after month even during bad months selling at least 3 times as many of those ooooogly 5's over a lot less ooooogly A6 (IMHO).

bartalk3

Lexusguy: It's true Detroit's problems are all of their own making, so most people have no sympathy for them. However, remember GM chief Charlie Wilson''s famous remark in the 50s that, "What's good for GM is good for America." He might have been right. But it's possible that the corollary is also right: What's bad for GM is bad for America." If so, what's happening to GM is bad for the country. If so, the country's got a problem. After all, GM is the biggest health insurer in the country, over a million people/families, I believe. This ain't no mom and pop store.

It looks like the U.S. industry is going the way of the British industry: Rover was the last remaining domestic car company to go under, I believe. Now it's all foreign imports or foreign ownership. It's true, as you say, that Accords, Camrys, Altimas, etc. are made here, but I don't think the domestic content of these cars is the same as in GM and Ford products. So high-paid manufacturing jobs continue to disappear. Meanwhile, people like me continue to buy Japanese cars (because I don't feel personally that I should buy an inferior product to do charity work and bail out GM), so we have met the enemy and it is us.

chef_jmr

Again, I am in agreement with you, but feel that Audi needs to take a way more aggressive approach to the standard items. Tech and audio options should be standardized to compete with the M's and RL's tech-filled-arsenal. Convenience and cold weather packages should go bye-bye as even my '01 VW GTI had heated seats! I was rather impressed with Acura's loading of the RL, and keeping it price competitive (not fond of the car's looks, though).

For $50k, xenon headlights should be standard, voice recognition, advanced key, sunroof, seat and mirror position memory, too! Leave the Sport and S-line packages as options. Maybe then, we will see an dramatic increase in sales if your suggestions for performance increase is also implemented (a must!!!).

Sorry for my rant. As a half-German, I get frustrated with my relatives inability to fully comprehend the American market. Do they not hire stateside consultants???

Jeff "The Angry Half-German American Consumer Who Wants the Most Bang for His American Dollar"

mnjoe

In the market right now. Will probably pull the trigger on an M next week. My additional comment on the Audi A6 3.2: how do you put a 45k - 50k car on the market without a power adjusting wheel? You need to go to the V8 to get the power steering wheel. Minor nitpick but it really annoyed me.

cstiles

Good comment about "communicating with your customers." Audi seems a bit discombobulated in this regard. When we owned the A4, I too, was baffled by the way they handled the service satisfaction followup. Using the web makes a ton of sense.

Audi would also send us these beautiful glossy magazines to create a sense of exclusive membership, yet the execution left a lot to be desired in other aspects. We received 2 or 3 mailings about the Audi credit card that allows you to accrue points (a la the GM Card), but everytime I called their 800 # to find out details, the operator couldn't answer any of my basic questions. So I would hang up and throw away the (very beautiful) mailer.

lexusguy

We're not in really in the same boat as the UK auto industry just yet. British auto was never really one for mass market cars, they just mostly made exotics and the companies were all constantly out of money. Compared to say, Fiat, American auto is on easy street. Still, they are going to have to make some fundamental changes in the way they conduct business that is almost certainly going to result in lost jobs.

"Do they not hire stateside consultants???" Apparently not. Look how long it took Audi to make proper cup holders.

mayberryguy

If you want to get really technical, here are the "domestic" ie American assembled brands everyone likes to call "foreign".

Honda
Toyota
Nissan
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Mercedes
BMW
Hyundai

If you want to get technical, many of the Big 3 makes are assembled in Mexico and Canada. How American is that?

markcincinnati

I know what you mean. I got into a strippie BMW X5 with the anemic 3.0 engine and son of a gun it had both a power steering column and a heated steering wheel. My current allroad -- a 2003 -- somehow managed to drop those features that older models had.

It is currently maddening how close Audi is -- or could be -- to being so much better. The new A6 was, or so I thought, THE time to make the big move. Instead we got several good moves, to be sure, but at the price point they have done exactly what everyone has accused VW of doing with the Phaeton.

Audi has genuinuely created what would be a great car if it just wasn't so expensive -- and I am NOT talking about the MSRP.

Although I personally thought the VW Passat W8 was a big bargain, I was proven to be so very wrong. The new A6 3.2 is cut from the same MARKETING cloth as the ill fated W8. People review the choices available to them and -- as the data reveals -- choose the alternatives many multiple times more than they are choosing the Audi.

Having said that, I feel that the Audi is a car of considerable merit and in many ways is superior to the cars that are handing it its lunch. Yet as I mentioned I am a minor student of economics -- the market is saying "we don't appreciate the superiority, can't find the superiority or just plain think the Audi is too much money for too little car." From what I can tell it is all about the residual.

This is Adam Smith, more or less, speaking clearly and loudly.

Once again, I ask: Audi, are you listening?

It is, it really is, better to lead than follow. The data suggest Audi follows literally EVERY OTHER competitor -- it is, currently, leading NO ONE.

Moresthepity.

bartalk3

I think you'll find that most GM and Ford products are manufactured here--these companies have dozens of American factories--with a high percentage of domestically produced parts. (That's why U.S. suppliers are also suffering a major crisis now, because of the decline of GM and Ford cars). The transplants use a lower percentage of U.S. parts. Plus, profits from these transplants are pretty much repatriated to the country of origin, no? Plus, although there's no love for the UAW on this board, no question that domestic plants organized by the UAW provide better health benefits, better pensions, and marginally higher wages than the transplants. I think it's a mistake to argue that nothing has changed in the auto industry simply because the transplants are replacing GM and Ford. Plus, think what the decline of GM and Ford are doing to an entire REGION of the country. For workers in Michigan, it's small consolation that BMW has a plant in, say, South Carolina.

msu79gt82

If you want to get technical, many of the Big 3 makes are assembled in Mexico and Canada. How American is that?

If you want to get technical there is only a Big TWO :shades: I assume you included Chrysler in your 3; but of course they are a foreign owned company.

cdnpinhead

it comes down to is how "lean" the various manufacturers are, plus other Deming stuff.

Do they care about delivering what the customer wants?

Do they do it efficiently?

Some manufacturers (& their dealer networks) deliver what the marketplace is excited about. The rest offer rebates &/or big ad budgets.

Some dealerships make a visit pleasant. Many don't.

Delivering a vehicle (and service experience) in this price range that not only meets customer expectations, but exceeds them, is certainly possible. BMW started it years ago, but what have they done for their customer base lately? I'm told Lexus rules (my local Lexus store put me off for all time a few years ago). Infiniti tries. There's a continuim here -- where does your favourite brand fit in?

The next five years in the car business are going to be interesting, for me to watch, but for many others to endure.

I'm going to be silent (for once) regarding which portion of the auto manufacturing world I think is most likely to be successful, but I don't mind guessing which one won't. The traditional U.S. auto industry is beyond in the toilet -- unions, health care costs, junk bond ratings, etc. Stick a fork in.

It's. . .

bondguy1

What do you mean too much money for too little car? I at first thought that the new Audi A6 was much more expensive than the old. You can get an A6 without all the packages and it still comes nicely equipped without convenience, advanced key, bigger wheels, etc...
And, later in the year, when they offer the non-quattro models, they will be relatively cheaper. Compared to what else is out there, the Audi A6 and the Infiniti M35 are two great choices. The Infiniti has more get up and go performance, probably appeals to a younger buyer who is used to buying Japanese, and wants all the bells and whistles. The Audi A6 on the other hand I think is for someone who wants a classier type of car (not that the Infiniti isn't classy, but it just is so much more a sporty sedan). The high polished wood, chrome accents are everywhere, a more refined but not modern like the Infiniti look. Something else I noticed tonight while driving in the new A6 which is cool looking...all four doors have bright led's running the length of the door halfway down the door shining down on the window controls. These are not bulbs but are a bright pure white color similar to the purpleish color leds under the seats and on the outside bottom of the mirrors that light up the ground.
If you compare these two cars above to the new Lexus GS300...which had been highly overrated by many....they both put it to shame.