Has Honda's run - run out?

andre1969

I had a LeSabre, not only in my 30's, but in my TWENTIES! :shades:

imidazol97

I love the heads up display in my newer LeSabre.
And, oh by the way, the engineer friend also has an Odyssey. I think it's had the transmission repaired.

anythngbutgm

rustyfuryiii, "Chevy TrailBlazer Transmission Problems" #90, 8 Sep 2005 9:05 pm

ateixeira

I blame the influence of video games. :P

But Civic caters to young folks, probably the ones playing those video games. To them it will seem natural.

To those of us accustomed to analog, especially the sense of change you get as the needle moves, it may take getting used to.

My high school sweetheart had a Beretta GT with that feature, and you hit the gas and it went like this

8

16

23

34

56

65

You had no idea how fast you were accelerating, besides feel.

And if you try to accelerate up to the speed limit, you'd often go over, and then have to slow down gradually.

That's why I prefer analog. But I'm sure that on a road trip, it would take a shorter glance down to know your speed with the digital gauge, especially given Honda put it up so high.

So while I don't prefer it, I don't really mind it much.

-juice

stickguy

if nothing else, people are discussing the Civic again!

I belong to the camp that doesn't conceptually care for the idea of the digital speedo, but I am willing to try it out before I make a decision. Plus, I would most likely get used to it.

my BIL has an S2000, and I don't remember it being a problem when I drove it a few years ago, and he never complains about it.

anythngbutgm

My S has the digital Speedo and Tach and to be honsest, I thought I was going to end up hating it after a while. But like someone mentioned above, a couple of days with the thing and it seems natural to me. I have an 04' which has a revised tachometer that doesn't shoot across the whole panel, but rather 3/4 of the way across. The original 00 - 03 had the full panel and if you drove with two hands, your right would block out some of the band. As far as the speedo is concerned, it's right in the line of sight and I haven't had any washout from the sun at all.

I quite like the setup actually.

ateixeira

It's set lower, too, so the Civic's is a little closer to your line of sight.

I too will be curious to try it out.

Honestly, nowadays I wish it flashed MPG instead of MPH! LOL

-juice

andre1969

with a digital display is going to be the repair cost when it shorts out. Wasn't that a big problem with the Nissan Z back in the 80's? My '88 LeBaron had a digital display, and I didn't have a problem with reading it. I thought it made the car look kinda futuristic. Looking back on it, I remember the numbers for the speedo were huge, like 2 inches tall, and it did register to 3 digits. You pushed a button to go between MPH and KPH...my grandma used to hate it when I had it on metric when she was in the car, and it was showing triple digits! :shades:

I can't remember the tach now, but I think it was shaped kinda like a boomerang, and a bar would light up for every 250 rpm or something like that. It also had two smaller gauges, where I think one toggled back and forth between fuel and amps, and the other between temp and oil pressure. And here, the levels were denoted like the tach, where a skinny little bar would light up as it rose.

This is all going from memory though, and it's been years since I've seen the inside of a KLeBaron!

I tend to associate digital displays with bigger, older cars, though. The first car I remember seeing that had one was the 1980 T-bird. The '81-83 Imperial also had a digital display. I think my buddy's '86 T-bird Elan had digital, too. And in 1985 it was a $299 option on the Regal, but was also a complete ripoff. I think it just gave you the speed, fuel, and outside temp or something lame like that.

ateixeira

I bet it will last at least 10 years. I mean, how often to outside temp gauge displays wear out?

Not to mention analog ones can break as well.

My '91 Escort had the old cable type, and the speedo got bumpy after a while. It would just shake up and down ever-so-slightly.

The new ones send a digital signal, I believe, even though the display is still analog. But they can break, too.

I just don't think it'll happen often.

-juice

anythngbutgm

I think the dash is actually Liquid Crystal and I know on Televisions they have a lifespan of 25,000 hours. So it could be a while before it burns out... hopefully

ateixeira

Yeah, Hondas last pretty long but I don't know about 25,000 hours long.

-juice

andre1969

and now that I think back on it, while the digital display on my '88 LeBaron was acting up, I think it was because of other things, like a bad fuel gauge sending unit, or faulty computer, but not the display itself.

But hey, I think of these things...when you figure that my second oldest vehicle is 21 model years old now, repair costs of various things as they age DO cross my mind! FWIW, the only car I ever had with a bad speedo is my '57 DeSoto. Had a few with bad gas gauges, though.

andre1969

it's probably not the display itself that goes bad, but something "behind the scenes" like a piece of plastic cracking, or a circuitboard frying or something along those lines. But if you could get 25,000 hours out of it, well say you average 30 miles an hour over the life of the car. That's 750,000 miles. Frankly, I don't have faith in the Civic to make it that far! :P

ateixeira

Funny to get a long-term ownership perspective, but Honda's not exactly going to sell a lot of new cars to people who keep them for 3/4ths of a million miles.

-juice

anythngbutgm

Luckily, I only use my car for half the year. And even then I don't drive it on the rainy days either so my milage per year will be something like 5k. So in 20 years I should be at a whopping 100,000!

Getting BOT, my wife really likes the new Civic hatch. Might be something to look into if the gas prices really do hit 4 bucks in the near future. On a good day, our MDX hits about 21mpg so 40+ would be quite an improvment...

carlisimo

What new Civic hatch? The one that's not coming out here?

anythngbutgm

Sorry, coupe. It has the RSX type roofline that screws me up everytime I see it...

varmint

My Cavalier did the same thing as your sweetie's Beretta, though I don't think it was fast enough to skip so many numbers. I don't recall it flashing the way Bob described, but I guess other designs could work that way.

As for repairs, if the speedo shorting out is the biggest problem, I'm all for the digi style. Last time I had a problem with gauges was with my 1981 Subaru GL sedan. It had a busted fuel gauge (analog) when I got it in 1990. I drove it for two years without getting it fixed.

stickguy

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'll bet that Honda has this functioning better than it did on a 1980 vintage Chevy!

How does it work on the sport bikes? They accelerate way faster than a Civic!

ateixeira

I never rely on those anyway. I use my trip odometer.

My Miata is ridiculous, it reads below E with 3 gallons remaining. On an 11 gallon tank!

I don't recall the Beretta's speedo flashing, just numbers changing rapidly. That was quick off the line, 2.8l V6 with good torque. Sounded like one of Santa's elves gargling with gear oil, though.



-juice

rsholland

When I said "flashing" I meant it was like trying to read the 1/10 second readout on a stop watch when speeding up or slowing down; not only impossible, but very distracting.

Bob

andre1969

because on hard acceleration with the LeBaron I usually wasn't paying attention to the speedo, anyway! And if I was, I guess I just learned to look at the tens place, and ignore the ones.

The only thing that really bothered me on that car was when you converted the mpg to metric. instead of doing kilometers per liter, it would register liters per 100 kilometers, which IMO is bass ackwards, and takes too much time to figure out if you're guzzling or sipping. :P I dunno though, maybe the Canadian thought process is different? :shades:

rsholland

Well, the constant up and down blinking numbers do keep you from falling asleep at the wheel, so I guess that's good.

Bob

musclecars4me

My Holden Monaro, (GTO) has both digital speedometer and analog. It's much easier to quickly see your speed on the digital. It's also nice having the analog there too.

ateixeira

It's just because we are used to talking about MPG.

But if you think about it, liters/100km makes more sense, you want to know how much fuel you're using. The goal is to use less fuel, not to travel a greater distance. Think about it - your destination is fixed, the amount of fuel is what varies!

So we are bass-ackwards!

-juice

carguy58

I have however been keeping track of car sales of late still. I am worried about Honda and here is my list of reasons why:

1.) Slipping reliability of first year models: Honda used to be good at this but not anymore for some reason. Consumer Reports dropped the 04 Acura TL to average reliability with issues concerning body integrity and Power Equipment.

2.) In my opinion the 03 Accord(first year of the 7th generation) was not built as well as the 98 Accord when it was new back in 97. The 03 Accord has had numerous compalints about again with issues with body integrity and brakes. However honda did correct the issue with the brakes with the 04 Accords that some owners were having with their 03 Accords.

3.) Recalls; 14 recalls for Honda this year. That is alot for Honda. They need to cut that in half next year.

4.) Bland styling with Civic and Accord. The 03 Accord came out terribly bland and is now getting a challenge from Nissan's Altima which has a way more sportier exterior than the Accord. Another misjudge was not going for Honda usual buyer like they did in the 80's and 90's with the Accord. With the 03 redesign they try to win buyers from General Motors and Ford with the styling but that has come back to bite Honda in my opinion.

With the Civic 01 Coupe it was a tad bland on the styling and now thery are paying for it big time with challanges from Mazda 3, Scion TC, and Toyota Corolla. The 06 Civic might sell well at first like the 03 Accord but then may drop off after. Why? Some people tagged the Accord for looking like a Buick and the Civic looks a little Saturn-ish in the front. Another issue with the Civic is a digital guage. I haven't seen a digital gauge since the 80''s. Why would anyone want one now?

I just don't think Acura sales and Honda mini-vans and SUV's are good enough to pick up fo ailing Accord and Civic sales in the long run. With a resurgent Chrysler and Nissan, a youth oriented Mazda, and a value driven Hyundai brand Honda might be looking over the shoulder in 5 years of those 4 companies can keep on winning customers. I think a big deal is when any company sells a car now in order for that car to be a success in the market it has to have the whole package. It has to have good interior room, the right engine package and the right styling. New Cars from Chrysler and Nissan are a smahing success because they have all these ingredients for the buyers that they are targeting. A car like the Mazda 3 seems to be doing well. The Mazda 6 has great styling but is a shade less roomier than the Altima and Accord which equates to alot sales than Altima and Accord have. A car like the Mitsubishi Galant doesn't have any selling point.

I love my Acura but unless Honda makes next generation Accord more sportier on the exterior I don't think I will coming back to the Honda brand. I just don''t think Honda is keeping up with the market on exterior styling with the Civic and Accord. The 92-95 and 96-00 Civic were a smashing success because they had the right styling for their core buyer. They are keeping up with styling with the Acura brand but I think Honda has to change their styling up. People don't want the same bland styling. I will give Kudo's to Acura stylists after years of people whing about bland styling they finally got their product right starting with the 01 MDX! The TL and RL are the best looking in their class in my opinion.

hpmctorque

"2.)...The 03 Accord has had numerous compalints about again with issues with body integrity..."

What do you mean by body integrity?

andre1969

but I think "body integrity", at least by CR's definition, refers to squeaks, rattles, wind noise/leaks, water leaks, window and door seals, etc. I think "body hardware" would refer to something like if a door handle broke, or the tape drive mechanism that operates your window chewed itself up, or a mirror fell off. If it's something like trim parts falling off, I think they group that with paint/rust.

Another thing to watch with Consumer Reports ratings is that it's a bit confusing the way they give their overall ratings. For example, if the majority of 2003 models score "much better than average" but the 2003 Accord only scores "better than average", then it's still going to get marked down. They have a blurb in their 2005 auto guide that explains it pretty well. They used a 2003 Grand Cherokee as an example. It had no black dots at all, and most of them were either better or much better than average. However, the "typical" 2003 car had more "much better than average" dots than the Grand Cherokee. Further, the Grand Cherokee scored "better than average" in the tranny area, which is more heavily weighted. Most 2003 models were scoring "much better than average" here. So, as a result, while the Grand Cherokee looked pretty reliable overall, it still got a big "X" at the bottom of the chart, and was rated as a vehicle to avoid.

IMO, it's kinda like having a kid in the Talented and Gifted class, where all the other nerds got the extra credit question on the test right and all got 105%, while your "dumb" kid got failed for only getting a 99%!

ctalk

A car like the Mazda 3 seems to be doing well. The Mazda 6 has great styling but is a shade less roomier than the Altima and Accord which equates to alot sales than Altima and Accord have.
You're wrong here. Mazda 3 doesn't seem to be selling well in the U.S, neither is Mazda6 (Mazda3 is doing well in Canada though, but the Civic is still the best selling car there)

Yes the Accord's sales are going down, but its still the 2nd bestseller in its class. Also, the Accord is not sold in fleets but the Camry and Altima (and Impala) are. If you hadn't noticed Accord is still seen as one of the top sedans in its class. Like the recent article on Car and Driver "Ford Fusion takes on Accord in Style quality and price"

ctalk

(Mazda3 is doing well in Canada though, but the Civic is still the best selling car in Canada, although in some months the Mazda3 has overtook the Civic in sales)

carguy58

"but I think "body integrity", at least by CR's definition, refers to squeaks, rattles, wind noise/leaks, water leaks, window and door seals, etc. I think "body hardware" would refer to something like if a door handle broke, or the tape drive mechanism that operates your window chewed itself up, or a mirror fell off. If it's something like trim parts falling off, I think they group that with paint/rust."

Your right about the sqeauks & rattles having to do with issues with body integrity. Yes Paint/Rust/trim having to with trim falling off. Also on "body hardware and the thing you use to get the window up and down(tape drive mechnism)wouldn't that go under "Power Equipment" and not "Bodyware". I remember one guy he had an 04 Accord at this place I used to work at and the latch you pull in the car so you can gas in the car broke. I don;t know if a latch inside the car to get the gas tank open would go under "Power Equipment" or "Body Hardware". My Dad has an 05 PT Cruiser and he complianed about the car whistling when he first go it.

"Another thing to watch with Consumer Reports ratings is that it's a bit confusing the way they give their overall ratings. For example, if the majority of 2003 models score "much better than average" but the 2003 Accord only scores "better than average", then it's still going to get marked down. They have a blurb in their 2005 auto guide that explains it pretty well. They used a 2003 Grand Cherokee as an example. It had no black dots at all, and most of them were either better or much better than average. However, the "typical" 2003 car had more "much better than average" dots than the Grand Cherokee. Further, the Grand Cherokee scored "better than average" in the tranny area, which is more heavily weighted. Most 2003 models were scoring "much better than average" here. So, as a result, while the Grand Cherokee looked pretty reliable overall, it still got a big "X" at the bottom of the chart, and was rated as a vehicle to avoid."

I saw that thing on the Cherokee by CR and how their chart works.

carguy58

"You're wrong here. Mazda 3 doesn't seem to be selling well in the U.S, neither is Mazda6 (Mazda3 is doing well in Canada though, but the Civic is still the best selling car there)"

With the Mazda 6 what I should have said was that that the 6 is a shade less roomier than Accord and Altima which equates to alot "less" sales than those Accord and Altima, The 3 is selling better than the previous Protege. The 3 has sold 67K units compared with last years 54K in the US. I do know Mazda is more popular in Canada than it is in the US.

"Yes the Accord's sales are going down, but its still the 2nd bestseller in its class. Also, the Accord is not sold in fleets but the Camry and Altima (and Impala) are. If you hadn't noticed Accord is still seen as one of the top sedans in its class."

Yes I know the Accord is still the 2nd best selling car in its class but if exterior styling with the next Accord is not a great improvement over the current Accord and Nissan styles another great Altima I think Honda should start to be concerned. I have seen pics of the new 07 Camry and is alot more aggressive at least from the front end than the current one is. I guess Toyota saw how Nissan was going for styling and Toyota I guess decided they have to get more aggressive with their styling from now on.

nippononly

35 posts all about the new Civic's digital speedo! I think there's no question this is going to be the most controversial element of the new model. Now that I have sat in it, I am siding with the camp that dislikes it.

I also think the new model looks much better than the old one, but there is definitely too strong a whiff of Saturn at the front. I do like the other stuff they have done to take it upscale (folding mirrors, telescoping wheel, a real center console, etc). I didn't get to drive the one I sat in, because the dealership hadn't prepped it yet. But backy has put a review of an '06 LX in the test drives thread. Seemed to like it overall.

Sidenote: was checking out the new Accord - stick-shift EX-L 4-cyl - looked at the sticker for source of components - transmission sourced from the Phillipines??? Why does this make me nervous? Isn't that the first time ever they haven't been sourced from Japan?

andre1969

When it comes to a window failing in a car, I think if it was the motor itself failing, or the switch going bad, or any of the wiring, then it would fall under "electrical". But if it's something mechanical like the tape drive chewing itself up, or the window coming loose and falling down in the door (which can happen on both power and crank windows) would probably fall under "body hardware".

As for a remote release, if it's a latch or something you pull, then most likely it's cable operated, and doesn't have anything electrical to it. Except maybe for a sensor to let you know that your trunk or fuel filler door is ajar.

ateixeira

Saw my first new Accord (sedan) on the street today, looks a lot better even in person. Reminds you of the coupe now, actually, in a good way.

-juice

richml

I live in NJ, and the Mazda3 seems to be selling pretty well. We were just in Canada - you'd be amazed at how many are on the road.

ctalk

Yes, I go to Toronto once a year and see many Mazda3's, Accords, Civics and Camrys. You can't go a second without seeing a Toyota or Honda. (In certain areas)

The Mazda 3 is the second best seller there in year-to-date sales and is just slightly edged out by the Civic. I'm not sure if it changed but from the last article I've read the Civic is still leading by a little. -In Canada

grbeck

The only 2006 Honda I've seen is an Accord LX sedan at the local Honda dealer. It looks good, although the LX trim level and silver color don't do much to show off the facelift.

Still no sign of the new Civic as of yet. Since there are still a good many 2005 Civics on the lot, maybe the dealer is hiding them until the old ones are sold.

As for Accord body integrity - from 1997 through 2004, it has scored "better than average" in this category in the Consumer Reports surveys.

nippononly

and Accords BOTH are hidden out back at my local dealer - they are trying to push out the last of the '05s. :-)

ateixeira

06s are not showing up yet in some cases.

-juice

varmint

According to TOV - who got it from a dealer - the Civic Sedan was supposed to have been released on 9/8. The Coupe was set for yesterday (9/12).

Mrs. Varmint was due with our first critter on 9/11, so I haven't had a chance to stop by the local Honda dealers.

carguy58

"I live in NJ, and the Mazda3 seems to be selling pretty well. We were just in Canada - you'd be amazed at how many are on the road."

I live in Central NJ and work in Northern NJ(Essex County.) I do se alot of 3's in Northern NJ and some in Central NJ.

carguy58

"As for Accord body integrity - from 1997 through 2004, it has scored "better than average" in this category in the Consumer Reports surveys"

I think the above average in body integrity(97-04)is for the Accord 4 cyl model only. The 03 Accord 6 cyl model was rated average in body integrity. The 04 Accord V6 got an above average mark in body integrity. Remember 04 models surveyed by Consumer Reports only had 3,000 miles on them at the time of the survey. I don't when reliability ratings come out for 05 models by Consumer Reports. The average mark for 03 Accord's(V6) and Accord 4 cyl are still with the average model surbeyed by CR in body integrity I think but I read some reviews on the internet where owners of 03 Accords are complaining about rattles in their cars.

ateixeira

That's no excuse you slacker!

Just kidding, congrats in advance and I hope you enjoy the birth as much as I did with our first. Cut that cord carefully, it's tougher than you think and also slippery!

-juice

stickguy

sounds like a oil change. That's why I hired a pro for both.

nippononly

I saw the Civic sedan - 9/9. '06 Accords are trickling in to my dealer - he still has a posse of '05s, composed of three groups, a half dozen V-6 EXs that he just got last week, a bunch of LX stick shifts that he ordered for the promo lease, which no-one took him up on I guess, and three or four coupes, EX 4-cyl autos. What I am amazed at is how quickly he sold a whole shipment of hybrids he got - there were like a dozen one day, and a few days later they were just all gone.

anonymousposts

Good luck. The birth of your first child will be the scariest and most wonderful time of your life. Cherish the moments when they are immobile little critters because they will soon turn into toddlers and nothing is safe. Not your Ramen noodles, your keyboard, your computer, your phone ... nothing.

rsholland

I second that! Enjoy the experience varmint, and congrats ahead of time. Sounds like it might be time to trade that CRV for an Odyssey.

Bob

grbeck

Here's hoping that everything goes well for Ms. Varmint, you and the new little one.

I drove by the local Honda dealer again tonight...STILL no sign of any 2006 models (Civic or Accord) on the lot! The one 2006 Accord - the silver LX sedan - on the lot already had a "sold" tag on the dashboard, and it is now gone.

grbeck

I'm going by the results published in the April 2005 issue of Consumer Reports (the annual auto issue). There are no results for the V-6 Accord of any year, and the ratings for the four-cylinder models are all "above average" for body integrity from 1997 to 2004.