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Honda Civic vs Volkswagen Jetta

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Comments

  • mitchcmitchc Posts: 39
    I agree with you. The Jetta and Civic don't really compare - in our minds. But you know to whom they line up for? Women. (I'm assuming you're a guy given your methodical logic above). My wife, for example. is exactly the kind of person who would put these two vehicles up against each other. If there wasn't a reliability issue, VW might win, but if you give that significant weighting, Civic crushes the Jetta. Do not underestimate the importance of esoteric things such as "style" or "appearance". To those people, the Jetta may really make it difficult for them to settle on the "safe" choice, the Civic.

    The other piece of the discussion is whether you have personally driven one of these new Jettas for several weeks or more? I have owned or driven Accords, Integras and Civics for > 10 years (loved 'em all), but when I got into the new Jetta, it really felt like I was in a BMW. The "european" feel is real - and it's very, very nice. Of course, I may live to regret it if my car starts going to the shop in 6 months. My wife chose the car. but I just like the 42 mpg I'm getting. Even with diesel at $3.19, our fuel bill went from $50/ week for a 4runner to $42 every 2-3 weeks for the Jetta. That's including the current price differential. It's not truly an economical decision when you crunch the numbers, but it feels good to pay less on a weekly basis while reducing my CO2 emmissions by 60%!

    By the way, what if diesel prices are 30 cents cheaper than unleaded next summer? Do I win? What if gas goes to $5 but I'm running biodiesel for $4? It could happen. Let's wait for next year's hurrican season and see! Yikes! Bottom line is if things get really, really bad, Civic owners will be on bikes and Jetta TDI owners will be running on peanut oil.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The other piece of the discussion is whether you have personally driven one of these new Jettas for several weeks or more?

    I haven't driven the new Jetta, but I have driven a New Beetle Turbo, and it had excellent driving dynamics, I would likely agree with you on the Jetta's dynamics too!

    By the way, what if diesel prices are 30 cents cheaper than unleaded next summer? Do I win?

    If this becomes a race for the cheaper fuels, and diesel is ultimately 75 cents cheaper (per gallon) then yoI will definitley win out in the fuel bill department, but I currently lead due to gasoline being $2.69 and diesel being around $3.35! ;) This may not be close to what your numbers are in your area, but mine have too large a price spread to think about diesels, as you can see.

    i agree with you. The Jetta and Civic don't really compare - in our minds. But you know to whom they line up for? Women. (I'm assuming you're a guy given your methodical logic above).


    Yes, I am a guy, and do understand how some people choose style and swagger over a "safer" choice, and many guys are just as guilty as women; I wouldn't pin that on our ladies alone.

    Even with diesel at $3.19, our fuel bill went from $50/ week for a 4runner to $42 every 2-3 weeks for the Jetta.


    Congrats on the savings, and glad you got out of your SOB, I mean SUV :shades: . I hope you and your VW are very happy together, really! I'd love for VW to be on a comeback as far as reliability goes!

    Thanks,
    thegrad
  • waiwai Posts: 327
    Everywhere in the world except USA that diesel fuel cost lots less than gasoline fuel, thats why I will not buy TDI in USA. I don't agree that Jetta is a female car especially the GLI with 17"BBS rims. It looks great for male driver But I do agree that my 97 Vetec Civic is not handle so well and so stable as the Jetta.
  • waiwai Posts: 327
    Driving an accord/civic on highway >80 mph is like floating on the wheel, while Jetta will make you feel safe and stick to the road. and the steering wheel is more solid. I would rather sacrifice a few premium gas mpg to drive in Jetta VR6 (not TDI) more nimble than an Accord and more stable & safe than a Civic. The Gli performs like a wolf with a sheep appearance.For me I don't care about the rattling sound and I have no issue since I bought my GLI 6 months ago.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Driving an accord/civic on highway >80 mph is like floating on the wheel

    I'm not sure what problems the accord you drove has, but the last three i have driven have not had a problem like the one you talk about. The steering is very sharp and direct, and the suspension is taut, keeping you planted to the road while not sacrificing ride comfort. Not saying the VW drives poorly, I am saying the Accord drives wondefully, and offers one of the best values on the market while doing so!

    For me I don't care about the rattling sound

    That's good news. My 1996 has just developed its first rattle after 155,000 miles, but I am not convinced it is unrelated to something rattling in the glovebox.
  • lorelore Posts: 17
    My whole family has honda's, accords, civics, CR-V's, and one even has the minivan. I decided to get a Jetta myself, personally because I've always wanted one. The Jetta, Civic, and Accord are all good cars, its just that there are more enthusiast that would pick one over the other. Curtc obviously likes civics, maybe had a bad experience with VW's, I dunno. Just take out the cars for a test drive and decide for yourself.

    I traveled to Germany and Europe a bit for business. I got to see and drive a good number of the german cars on their autobahn highways. Just the look and feel of german engineering was enough to switch me from the Honda/Toyota side to the german side. Unfortunately I'm still a bit younger and cannot afford to buy a BMW at this stage in life. I test drove an 05 civic, 05 accord, and 06 jetta and was just sold on the jetta. Just the feel, look, and driving experience was enough to seal the deal.

    Yes Hondas mainly last forever (or at least a good while), but to me its a blah car. It's a safe car that will get you around, but I commute to work. I would rather have a more comfortable ride (honda seats bother me), more fun ride, than to have my car last 20 years. I will prob get a new car in 7-10 years so if the Jetta lasts that long, I will be a happy man. I dont really need a car to last 20 years, I end up selling them anyway.

    So far I've had zero issues with my Jetta, and its a ride I actually look forward to in the morning. I know if I had gotten the Honda (Civic or Accord), I would just look at it as my commute vehicle. The jetta on the other hand is a FUN ride. :P
  • waiwai Posts: 327
    Thats why I dump my civic in the garage and park my Jetta on the driveway for me to look at it frequently and drove to work everyday.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    (curtc) Well said! You allude to what may be the underlying main difference between Asian -vs- German branded automobiles. This is almost embedded in the thinking of the engineers that design the automobiles.

    The Asian autos are designed to be ignored. (skip oil change, antifreeze changes, filter changes...etc) Just drive them.

    The German-branded autos come from a mindset thinking that the owners WILL be following the maintenance schedule religiously. (including special requirements for oil, antifreeze and other items.) If not followed... then things will likely break.

    ===

    Historically, the flipside has been that Aisan cars are bboorriinng to drive. Road manors are usually a "disconnected" feeling from the controls. Squishy ride and handling have been the norm for Asian cars. One does not get the complete sense of being "in control". Also, cheep-looking plastic parts are often found in the interier. Asian cars also RUST OUT significantly faster than most other vehicles. (important in the snowbelt)

    German automobiles have a reputation for exquisite handling manners, powerful brakes and extremely comfortable seats (200 mile trip does not become painful sitting) and general better quality materials/paint/finish. The factory 12year/unlimited milage corrosion wartantee reflects the use of thicker metal/ galvanization and other body treatments that Asian cars can only DREAM of having. (this heavier body results in lower MPG as compared to Asian cars) Also, VWs are consistantly rated SAFER in a colision than most Asian cars.
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    The comparison is between the Jetta and the Civic. The Civic has always been a class leader in the safety department and I certainly would expect that to continue especially given the Safety for Everyone initiative Honda set forth.

    "Cheap looking" and "Disconnected or squishy" are totally subjective claims. The seats in the Civic have always been a class leader so I am not sure where this claim of discomfort comes about.

    It sounds as if you have a whole number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic. That is fine, however, I wouldn't begin to toss around your subjective claims as any type of official objective observation (short of crash test scores which, again, I'm sure the Civic will equal).
  • waiwai Posts: 327
    "The Civic has always been a class leader in the safety department and I certainly would expect that to continue especially given the Safety for Everyone initiative Honda set forth."

    Most of the deadly accidents happens in Civic more than in Jetta. We sometimes see Civic torn into half after crashed into a tree/lamp post but this will never happen in Jetta. As you can tell that a Jetta weights almost 200 lbs more than a Civic.
    Also whenever I drove my Civic for a long distance, I have a sore back, but not in my Jetta.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    It is not I that have the "number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic"... I am pointing out FACTS I have owned a Cvic and Jetta.

    FACT: Hondas RUST OUT.... here in the snow-belt, rust-resistance is a #1 requirement. Who cares if a car is "reliable" if it does not pass State inspection because of holes in the floorboards?

    FACT: My Cvic neede a new exhaust system every 2 years... again, the cheep material could not stand up to the roadsalt.

    FACT : The Jetta/Golf platform is perhaps one of the safest in crash tests and real world -on the crash scene- collisions for small vehicles. Many parents would not allow their kids to drive anything less.

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform had side-airbags many years - I beleive the Cvic has only offered them for a couple years.

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform has offered ESP for years -- Does Cvic even offer it?

    FACT: The Cvic is Hondas entry-level offering. (and so is Jetta for VW)... but virtually all "reviews" of these vehicles only mention the high-quality interior of the VW. Anytime I see Cvic interior mentiond, it does not mention "high-quality"

    FACT: Some long-time drivers of German road cars find the handling of Honda to be vague. The same "feel of the road" just is not there. (I will concede that Honda is getting better and I expect will eventually catch up)

    FACT: VW uses heavier guage steel for their bodies. This is a trade-off that reduces MPG... but improves stiffness and safety.

    FACT: After a severe hailstorm... VW needs a paintjob while all Hondas in the same parkinglot are nearly unsalvagable!!

    And PLEASE do not talk about "class leader"-- the very term is unquantifiable (any car maker can define a "class" in which their automobiles "lead")

    Like when Ford says they have the "best selling truck" (did you know they include the counts of ALL the rental and lease fleets that use Ford?)

    Or when GM says they have the "most dependable, longest lasting...blaa blaa" This is a case of GM defining the "class" in which they are leading.
  • Bottom line:

    VWs fall apart.

    Hondas don't.

    WINNER: HONDA!
  • This discussion has fallen apart to the point that I suggest the moderator bring this to an end. I have not seen any insight in here in a while. curtc, I respect your special needs, and the Civic is likely a good choice for you, personally, but please do understand that there are millions of customers out there who have different dealer experiences and different personal needs and wants.

    Not all of us rate the number of times we need to go to the service department per year as number one on our shopping list, and not all of us are that infatuated with our cars that we have to regress to hyperbole. Most reliability and maintenance differences between cars these days are a lot slimmer than apparent from simple listings (and from consumer magazine statements --- who live on it).

    I have said this before, if you absolutely hate anything ever to have fixed on your car (although things will need to be fixed, eventually), and you don't care much about driving experience, and you either don't drive more than 10K miles per year or sell your car before 100K miles, perhaps a Honda or a Toyota is your best and only choice. Ever wonder why there are more than 10 other companies out there that not only remain competitive but also excel in certain markets? Because: we are not all made equal.

    So, please respect that as much as the Civic is one's best friend, it may as well be the next person's worst nightmare. And vice versa, of course.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    C'mon folks, we need to stick to the cars. Everyone who wants to post an opinion about one of the subject vehicles is welcome to do so. Anyone who feels this discussion has no merit only needs to look to the multitudes of other discussions we have on all things automotive to find other venues in which to be engaged and entertained.

    All who post here, however, need to not snipe at each other. That is neither necessary nor appropriate
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    It is not I that have the "number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic"... I am pointing out FACTS I have owned a Cvic and Jetta.

    FACT: Hondas RUST OUT.... here in the snow-belt, rust-resistance is a #1 requirement. Who cares if a car is "reliable" if it does not pass State inspection because of holes in the floorboards?


    Actually, every car rusts out eventually. Your "fact" is purely conjecture. You state no tests, no numbers, no time frames, no nothing but conjecture.

    FACT: My Cvic neede a new exhaust system every 2 years... again, the cheep material could not stand up to the roadsalt.

    Welp, your supplier stunk I guess. North NJ driver of a '98 Civic, exhuast replaced one time after five years and my current one is nearly 3 years old now w/out nary a problem. My wife's 2001 Civic will be 5 in February, exhaust system is fine. So sorry you had bad luck.

    FACT : The Jetta/Golf platform is perhaps one of the safest in crash tests and real world -on the crash scene- collisions for small vehicles. Many parents would not allow their kids to drive anything less.

    I wouldn't dispute your first sentence nor did I in my original statement. And what's "less"? Less than the excellent crash ratings that seem to follow Honda around in whatever they build?

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform had side-airbags many years - I beleive the Cvic has only offered them for a couple years.

    And, is there a point when comparing two 2006 models where side and curtains are standard on every model?

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform has offered ESP for years -- Does Cvic even offer it?

    No, Civic doesn't. The Jetta is 15% more expensive.

    FACT: The Cvic is Hondas entry-level offering. (and so is Jetta for VW)... but virtually all "reviews" of these vehicles only mention the high-quality interior of the VW. Anytime I see Cvic interior mentiond, it does not mention "high-quality"

    Actually, all I ever see is that Civic looks nothing like an entry level offering. That's pretty much been the m.o. of the Civic for years.

    FACT: Some long-time drivers of German road cars find the handling of Honda to be vague. The same "feel of the road" just is not there. (I will concede that Honda is getting better and I expect will eventually catch up)

    Some people like the taste of calf's liver. Your "feel of the road" is purely a subjective statement.

    FACT: VW uses heavier guage steel for their bodies. This is a trade-off that reduces MPG... but improves stiffness and safety.

    The cage and breakaway properties are most important in crash circumstances. I don't recall reading anywhere that the stiffness or safety on the Civic are compromised in any way shape or form compared to the Jetta.

    FACT: After a severe hailstorm... VW needs a paintjob while all Hondas in the same parkinglot are nearly unsalvagable!!

    I saw at least four broken down Jettas on my way to work this morning!! It must be a fact!! Eesh

    And PLEASE do not talk about "class leader"-- the very term is unquantifiable (any car maker can define a "class" in which their automobiles "lead")

    Class leader is what the Civic is consistently referred to as in just about any comparo I've ever read in recent years. I'm pretty sure the 2006 model will be no different.

    Like when Ford says they have the "best selling truck" (did you know they include the counts of ALL the rental and lease fleets that use Ford?)

    Irrelevant

    Or when GM says they have the "most dependable, longest lasting...blaa blaa" This is a case of GM defining the "class" in which they are leading.

    Irrelevant
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Posts: 4,085
    You are correct that some of my "FACTS" may seem subjective especially when comparing 2006 -vs- 2006 models. However, we need to lean on historical data when comparing any automobiles. Any two NEW cars better be very nice indeed.

    I can compare 100s of cars in any Wallmart parking lot and visually see that RUST is prevalent on hondas while one has to find a VERY old VW to find any rust.

    As for my exhaust rusting out every 2 years... that was GENUINE HONDA exhaust in every case!!

    Any "comparo" of 2 NEW cars must also take into account the FUNDING for the writer of the comparison. These "comparos" can only be useful to tell the reader about perceptions of the editor. These perceptions are often tainted by who is paying the writer. I dont mind direct comparisons of vehicle features but anything beyond that should not be taken very seriously. Do you know if an editor emulates your personal tastes and desires in an automobile?

    Each person needs to make their own decision based on their own personal needs in a vehicle. These forums here at edmunds are useful if one can effectively weed out the useless fluff that we all tend to add to our appends.

    My hope is that other folks reading these appends can extract the facts that are meaningful to themselves to help them make a choice.

    On a personal note.... a totally reliable car is NOT my #1 need. I need a car that can handle at least 10 years of salt-laden winter roads without rusting beyond repair. I can FIX an occasional broken part... I CANNOT reliably fix a rusty car. The Hondas I have owned did not meet this requirement.
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    As for my exhaust rusting out every 2 years... that was GENUINE HONDA exhaust in every case!!

    Holy cow!! You are telling me that was in every single case? Astounding, really. Unrealistic, unbelievable, but astounding nontheless. I think I dodged at least four or five GENUINE HONDA exhausts on my way to work this morning. Darn things just litter the road really

    Each person needs to make their own decision based on their own personal needs in a vehicle. These forums here at edmunds are useful if one can effectively weed out the useless fluff that we all tend to add to our appends.

    In all honesty, that's the only clip that made sense.

    There are Honda's that easily exceed your 10 year mark on "salt laden" roads. How can someone tell? Look at all of them on your way to work. 10, 12, 15 year old Hondas being used as daily drivers with their floors in tact.

    It's not too difficult to weed out fluff in someone's argument.

    I can FIX an occasional broken part...

    I seriously doubt that repairs on a perennial favorite for breakdowns requires such a flippant remark. I can be assured that I am likely to not call out at work due to car troubles moreso than I would if I owned a Jetta if historical data is to be used. If all of the Honda's disintegrated in 10 years, you wouldn't be seeing so many 10+ year old Hondas on the road... as a primary vehicle.
  • I have seen presidents and governators being elected at a 50% +-epsilon majority, just to end up with a 35% approval rating. I have seen SUVs and pick-up trucks outselling cars as "the family car". The majority elected Hitler, disallowed women to vote, prevented African-Americans from getting an education or marry me.

    Somehow, I have rarely felt comfortable with the majority.

    People are multidimensional. They have many different needs and wants. They look at numerous things when they go shopping. This is what keeps so many different products and manufacturers alive. I am so happy 1984 never materialized. I don't want to be told what I have to like.

    ...Yet, I am a very rational person who looks at consumer reports, edmunds, and many other resources. But, I build my decisions on the meaning of data, not on the perception of data.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Class leader is what the Civic is consistently referred to as in just about any comparo I've ever read in recent years. I'm pretty sure the 2006 model will be no different.

    Can I chime in here? Couldn't help but reply to this statement. The 2001-2005 Civic was the biggest also-ran Civic Honda has ever produced. Car and Driver called it a loser outright. The Mazda 3 and others blew away the 01-05' Civic. What comparo has the just replaced Civic ever won? I don't remember any. The sedan in particular was a big let-down compared to previous Civics.

    M
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    We know you like the Mazda3, as well as your dislike for the Civic. It's been regurgitated ad nauseum elsewhere. That's great but this time it's on the incorrect forum.

    Sorry, it took 2nd place right here on Edmunds (out of seven) as a last model year in 2005 and first place in 2003 (out of eight). And even when it took second, "blown away" was certainly not used. Do you exggerate this much for everything you are passionate against? Also ran? My goodness, do you only read (or worse, remember) what you agree with?

    So there, you didn't remember at least one comparo. Astounding :surprise:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    We know you like the Mazda3, as well as your dislike for the Civic. It's been regurgitated ad nauseum elsewhere. That's great but this time it's on the incorrect forum.

    Sorry, but you've got the wrong person in mind. I haven't said anything about a Honda Civic or Mazda 3 anywhere else and I hardly ever post on such boards, and I certainly have said anything about either car ad nauseum anywhere.

    However since I'm here, coming in second in a Edmunds comparo doesn't mean squat to me. The Honda Civic has lost and been called a loser by the same people that loved the previous generations of the car. Edmunds camparos are mainly for kid reading imo. They're largely inconsistant and vary wildly depending on what criteria they've chosen for the day. When you look at the real comparos in the magazines that seems to have a better handle on what they're talking about, the Civic loses everytime, at least as far as I can remember. Car and Driver came right out an called the sedan a loser.

    Face it the 01-05' Civic was nothing special and was just that, an also-ran in the segment. One first place and one second place finish at Edmunds doesn't change that.

    Sorry, but a "benchmark" car is a car that wins in most of comparos it competes in, not just a few by one source.

    M
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Face it the 01-05' Civic was nothing special and was just that, an also-ran in the segment. One first place and one second place finish at Edmunds doesn't change that.

    Sorry, but a "benchmark" car is a car that wins in most of comparos it competes in, not just a few by one source.


    I agree the 01-05 Civic was nothing special. Hopefully the new Civic will be a big hit (in sales and reviews)
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    However since I'm here, coming in second in a Edmunds comparo doesn't mean squat to me. The Honda Civic has lost and been called a loser by the same people that loved the previous generations of the car. Edmunds camparos are mainly for kid reading imo. They're largely inconsistant and vary wildly depending on what criteria they've chosen for the day. When you look at the real comparos in the magazines that seems to have a better handle on what they're talking about, the Civic loses everytime, at least as far as I can remember. Car and Driver came right out an called the sedan a loser.


    That's great, ignore whatever you wish to ignore because it doesn't agree with your belief. Motor Trend liked the car a lot. So did Automobilemag. So did Consumer Reports. You can easily call a car a "benchmark" that is consistently referred to as a class leader. You don't, I am not surprised.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Motor Trend liked the car a lot. So did Automobilemag. So did Consumer Reports. You can easily call a car a "benchmark" that is consistently referred to as a class leader. You don't, I am not surprised.

    Like I stated before, them liking a car and it placing first in one comparo does not make it a benchmark. Sorry if you can't accept this. When have you seen a automotive publication come right out and say they don't like a car? It rarely happens nowadays. If the press "liking" a car is all it takes to create a benchmark then every car in every class is a "benchmark". Most comparos will tell you that there isn't a "clunker" in the bunch and that all the cars are worthy, but only one can be best and from 2001-2005 it wasn't the Honda Civic.

    To say that just because a few magazines liked the car makes it a "benchmark" is very disingenuous. You say I'm ignoring what Edmunds and others have said, but it seems to me you're doing the same thing if you don't put what is arguably the leading U.S. publication's (C&D) opinion of the car in the mix.

    A true benchmark car is never, ever called an outright loser by anyone. At best it will win here and at worst come in second there, but it would never be called a "loser" by anyone.

    A "benchmark" gets uanimous praise!

    M
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    There's a difference between liking a car a lot and liking a car. If you wish to downplay a number of magazines that consistently put the Civic as the car everyone is gunning for, that's fine. It doesn't help your argument that the Civic was viewed by many as the tops in the class even during the the 2001-2005 generation and, therefore, could expect at least the same results or better in the 2006+ generation. It's what can be used as a comparison to the Jetta since that's what this thread is about. You decided to chime in by disagreeing and ignoring multiple publications praise of the vehicle and press personal semantic preferences.

    A true benchmark car is never, ever called an outright loser by anyone. At best it will win here and at worst come in second there, but it would never be called a "loser" by anyone

    When you look at the real comparos in the magazines that seems to have a better handle on what they're talking about, the Civic loses everytime, at least as far as I can remember. Car and Driver came right out an called the sedan a loser.
    :confuse:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    At every point it seems that you're retracting your assertion that the Civic as a "benchmark". The problem with the above is that you're only using the good reviews of the car as a basis for saying it was a "benchmark", not all of them.

    A benchmark does't get panned in one review and praised in another. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that.

    True the Civic has traditionally been a "benchmark" of the small car class, but the previous 2001-2005 design dropped the ball by more than one account.

    Now watch as the 2006 version is praised more rountinely than the 2001 model was, that is the making of or being a "benchmark".

    There's a difference between liking a car a lot and liking a car. If you wish to downplay a number of magazines that consistently put the Civic as the car everyone is gunning for, that's fine.

    Likewise if you chose on ignore the magazines that called the car a loser to make a shaky claim about a benchmark. A benchmark gets praise everywhere and everytime it is test, not a few times here and there. This kills your argument. Doesn't matter if I like a car or not. It the oldest trick in the book to pick the good reviews over the bad ones, but with a true benchmark you don't have to do that because they'll all be positive.

    Hey if you choose to believe that the 2001-2005 Civic was a "benchmark" thats fine, but please don't misrepresent by claiming this opinion was shared with everyone who tested and drove the car because it wasn't.

    M
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    "Lows: Mid-size-sedan mass, modest grip, absence of on-center steering feel, ambitious pricing."

    "you'd get a flaccid suspension coupled to a weakling engine"

    "These days, that seems a bit lethargic, or maybe the five-cylinder's moaning engine note just makes it seem like it takes a lot longer."


    It seems like your car doesen't necessarily bring home all the bacon, either, in the benchmark department. Before you start criticizing me, I never said the Civic was the benchmark...Just did a little search for the details on the Jetta, in Various Car Mags. When it comes to buying an economy/compact, ambitious pricing doesen't sound like what I need! Fine german handling (paraphrased from you, I believe); does numb steering come standard, or just a VW option?
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    At every point it seems that you're retracting your assertion that the Civic as a "benchmark".

    Utter nonsense. You don't even appear to know what the word "benchmark" means.

    A benchmark does't get panned in one review and praised in another. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that.

    What is hard to understand is why you didn't look up the word before making that statement.

    Likewise if you chose on ignore the magazines that called the car a loser to make a shaky claim about a benchmark. A benchmark gets praise everywhere and everytime it is test, not a few times here and there. This kills your argument. Doesn't matter if I like a car or not. It the oldest trick in the book to pick the good reviews over the bad ones, but with a true benchmark you don't have to do that because they'll all be positive.


    I mentioned multiple sources, you mentioned one. And if you read the text in that sole comparo you've decided as your one and only holy grail of the Civic(and why your argument holds utterly no water), they complained more about rattles than anything else. That was not mentioned in any of the other reviews of the car. Sorry, it kills nothing and you are just plain reaching at this point. You didn't think the Civic ever even won a comparo but when proven to be incorrect you brush it aside.
    So you can continue to think whatever you wish however your addition to this thread has been completely unnecessary.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    ... turn this into something personal.

    People can contribute what they want. And others can ignore messages they find "unnecessary".

    Or respectful contrasting opinions cam be posted, but it's just not necessary to get into personal comments with another member.
  • Civic don't even belong to the same class as Jetta in my opinion. Not even close. :)
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