Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers

lzc

>>Does anyone know if E85 or flexfuel can be used in the TCH, and if so, what kind of mileage is obtained?

No, it can't be used.

stalnaker

My Camry Hybrid has over 7,000 miles on it, and my mileage hasn't changed much since my 2nd tank. My best-ever highway mileage on a tank was a little over 36, and my average city mileage is around 30-31. I think my average for the entire time I have owned the car is about 32, which includes about 1/3 highway miles. I'm sure I'll never get the eye-popping numbers that some people are getting, but I try to console myself in the fact that it's a lot better than the car I used to have. I don't know if there is anything wrong with my vehicle, or if I just take too many short trips where the engine hasn't warmed up enough. As far as the highway mileage goes, I normally drive 75-80. I'm sure I could get it up to 40 mpg if I drove closer to 65.

greg0ire

My TCH is 2 days old and now has close to 100 miles on it. It has yet to average above 27.5 mpg. Is it the new engine? Is there something wrong with the car? Please help. Thank you.

larsb

My guess is that all is normal.

My first tank on my first hybrid (a 2004 Civic Hybrid) was only 38 MPG but I ended up at the end of 28,000 miles achieving 48 MPG lifetime.

You will learn how to drive the car for optimum MPG as time goes by, if you want to do so.

Unfortunately, if you just drive your TCH like any non-hybrid car, not using the instruments and tools and tips from other hybrid owners to help improve your understanding of the HSD system, then you will suffer poor mpg.

That's where the battery technology is limiting us right now.

greg0ire

Thanks. I have been reading the threads. I'm hoping that I will get the hang of it (coasting, etc..).

larsb

Let me give you the one tip which helped me the most:

Learn how to feather the accelerator pedal.

By that I mean accelerate in a fairly normal manner (not like a Granny but not like a Nascar driver either) up to the cruising speed where you want to be and then lightly let up on the pedal just enough that the "real-time MPG meter" will shoot up, then re-apply light pressure again to maintain speed.

This gives the HSD system time to kick the battery on (under 42 mph at least) and the letup will give you a few split-seconds of "mini-coasting" while still for the most part maintaining your speed.

Learning that tip will give you the best immediate results without a big learning curve.

jjyang

First off..congrats on your purchase. Its a real nice ride, ain' it?

The MFD in my TCH shows about the same when I drove off the lot. It went up some by the time I hit a 1/2 tank. After that it just crept up slowly as my driving improves. If you want to see a big improvement, you will have to drive at high efficiency for a distance to see a big change. THat's just the law of averaging. For example, if you want to see a 30 mpg read out by the time you hit that 200 mile, you will need to drive at 33 mpg for the next 100 mile.

I would not be too concern with your tank ave for this first tank. Use the eco drive level as a gauge instead. I recommend taking it for a longer spin on a somewhat flat highway (be sure to coast...and do what everyone calls the pulse and glide) and then hit a 35 mile zone stretch and keep it on battery about 40 mph. (Dont use the cruise control until you get at least to your 500 mile or better yet 1000m) You should see the analog mpg readout drop to E. The longer you stay at this mode the better. If your eco drive level dont reach the max after 15 min of driving, I would be surprised.

Good luck!

wvgasguy

I'm sorry but I don't think I can get below 35 mpg unless I intentionally try. I will say that once you "get it" you will "get it".

Occasionally I'll find myself not thinking and I'll be going along at 45 mph after pulling from a stop and the instant gage will show 30 mpg. I'll lightly let up, hear the engine go to idle (and watch the FE gage drop and then very LIGHTLY reapply the throttle. My milage will settle out at 40 to 45 mpg and I will lose no more than 2 mph. Once you experience that I believe you will develop the touch than is necessary.

If you intentionally try to stay with traffic, I doubt that you'll ever get over 36 mpg. My worsr milage is at 70+ on the interstate. However when I drive the interstate and allow myself to slow uphill (to say 60) and coast downhill at close to 80 then I have gotten 42 mpg on a 125 mile trip. Granted I don't live in a high traffic area. (Find a semi and follow it)

I realize most don't care much for the difference between 36 and 40 and to tell you the truth it's not that much of a savings ( a little over 10%). Like most of you I came from a 16 mpg vehicle to this. Only my obsessive compulsive personallity drives me to keep maxing it out to what I think is its limits for this terrain.

If you're getting less than 35 you need to keep trying (if you are trying) If you're getting 27 on purpose then I would have bought the Lexus instead.

jjyang

I agree with wvgasguy that manual calculation is not accurate, simply because there is no way for you to verify that you are hitting the same full level line at fill up each time. But that inaccuracy is only of the order of 2 mpg max.

It sounds like you are getting imporvement! That's great! I dont live in VA but my daily commute do involve driving on a somewhat hilly highway. THere is just no way I can keep the anolog mpg readout to level off at 40mpg or better when going uphill. I feel your pain! I sure envy those midwest folks that are getting ridiculous mpg. Having lived in IA/MN, I can see why!

jjyang

Manual says 87 octane only! If the 85 stands for octane level, then it likely no. I would consult with Toyota.

jjyang

An "expanding gas tank"? ROTFLOL. That's just too funny.

joe131

No, no, no.
The Toyota Camry Hybrid's gas tank does not actually expand.
The thing is, the longer you drive a TCH on the roadway, the road itself shrinks, which makes each mile shorter.
THAT is why the apparant MPG improves.

jjyang

Ahh...I get it now. This technology is so cool. Can it also shrink my monthly payment?

greg0ire

Thank you all. I already see an improvement. Now I am wondering if I made a mistake by not shelling out the extra bucks for the navigation system so I can monitor the efficiency that way.

wvgasguy

Now I am wondering if I made a mistake by not shelling out the extra bucks for the navigation system so I can monitor the efficiency that way.

For the people still looking and considering the TCH, if you know you're wanting to really get into this max mpg attitude, then the NAV system is worth it for nothing else but enjoying the energy screens.

Some day I'm going to use the map function.

gampa

Several weeks ago...I remember reading an article stating that as gasoline heats up in the summer, the expansion produces less energy per volume causing a loss of 3 to 7 mpg.

I have noticed that my mileage on these 90 degree days has been about 3 to 5 mpg less and yet I drive the same route. Several months ago when temps were cooler, I did easily achieve 37 mpg.

I am curious when temps cool down in the fall... if my MPG increases.

We all know that the elements... wind , rain, cold affect MPG... why not high temperature.

Gampa

joe131

maybe the car's air conditioner reduces fuel economy. hot weather= more A/C use?

jjyang

Hmmm perhaps there is sweet "temperature" spot for the TCh but somehow I find it hard to believe that it would fair that poorly at 90 degree. Have you taken a look at greenhybrid.com camry database? Check out a few of the high milers and you can see that efficiency drops at low temps, 40 & below.

I think part of the reason for the low winter miles is turning on heat in the car. I was just driving the other night when i got drenched from rain. I was somwhat cold and jacked up the heat in the car. Much to my dismay, I noticed the engine refused to stop even when I was coasting under 20 mph. Apparently, there was no other heat source in the car so the smart computer (ahem..programmer) feels that the driver would prefer heat over the better FE. Erggh. I dont care if my knuckles turns white cause of the cold, but they really should wait till the engine temp is hot enough before kick starting the air blower. Guess I will have to do that manually.

There are some online posting somewhere saying that you get less gallon than reported when filling up at high ambient temperature. If true, that may affect your mileage if you calculate by hand. But that should not affect the eco drive level gauge.

lzc

Yes, it's true molecules expand as the temperature increases. You will get less gasoline per volume when it's hot. But . . . gasoline is stored in underground tanks. The temperature difference thus is less than it might appear to be.

Bottom line, someone more conversant with physics than I am has suggested that the difference between cool and hot fill-ups might be one penny, but it's probably not that much.

I think most TCH users agree that mileage suffers most in cold weather, particularly when trips are short. Hybrid systems seem to need to be a fully warmed up before they operate efficiently. My mileage improved 3-4 mpg as soon as spring arrived even though my trip length didn't change much.

newcars

After about 12,000 miles, I average about 37mpg. Not bad when you consider I still do 70+ on the highways; I'm too much of a "Type A" personality to really milk the mileage on my TCH for all it's worth.

However, I will also note that if I can put cruise on on the highway, I still average from 35mpg to 40mpg depending on how level the highway is. Note that in travelling back and forth between Washington, DC and New York City, my wife and I are both averaged over 40mpg. In fact, one time my wife was driving on the highway at about 65mph and was getting about 50mpg. Unfortunately neither one of us was ever able to do that again; she must have had a good tail wind that afternoon.

The one thing I have noticed is where I get the worst gas mileage is in "rush-and-slow" highway traffic. In stop-and-go highway traffic (and in stop-and-go city traffic), I can keep my gas mileage in the mid-30's easily. Off hand, under those circumstances the worst I've ever done is probably about 32mpg but normally I average about my average of 37mpg for both. The trick is to maximize use of the electric motor at slow speeds and coasting down to a stop.

The problem is that in "rush-and-slow" traffic, you can never maximize the use of the electric motor. What I mean by "rush-and-slow" is that traffic is continually moving but everyone is travelling at a different speed. Think of it as rush hour traffic that is (somewhat) moving. In trying to keep a steady speed and maximize your fuel economy, no matter how slow you go you'll always end up braking behind someone slower when you can get from behind them. Then you always have to speed up once that slow person moves or you get around them. Unfortunately, you are always slowing and accelerating and never using the electric motor.

That type of traffic usually drops my gas mileage down into the low 30's. In fact, for a brief period it actually got down to 29mpg.

The bad news is that I know of no way to avoid the bad mileage of "rush-and-slow" traffic except to avoid it. So if 'rush-and-slow" traffic is what you mostly have to deal with, mileage in the area of 32mpg might be the best you can get from your TCH.

But, to me at least, even averaging "only" 32mpg, the TCH would still be a great car.

One final note: I do find that the "ECO" button raises my mileage about 2-3mpg on average. I would advise that you make certain it is always on.

jjyang

He He He."rush and slow" is great for my mileage....You just have got to have the "grit" to do it. By it, I mean just do the slow part and ignore the rush part, i.e. accelerate using your motor only. You'll be cutoff and may be flicked off, but stick to it and your eco drive level will soar. Actually, I do it also because I think all cars should do this. I did it even when I was driving my AWD suv. I would accelerate and leave at least 3 car lenghts and then take the pedal off the accelerator and go neutral. If I time it right, I can avoid a complete stop. If everyone does this, we will never have a complete jam and probably save lots of gas too. Ok..."never" is a little strong.

wvgasguy

Actually, I do it also because I think all cars should do this.

Someone has to be the leader, might as well be the person who is in the "right".

plknj

I'm with you guys on this!

newcars

I'm probably too much of a "Type A" personality to want to do the "rush-and-slow" on purpose. But still, I think we are probably talking about two different driving situations.

In fact, I probably do what you do in what you describe as "rush and slow" traffic. And, for the record, I (too) get very good mileage doing it.

When I say "rush-and-slow," however, I'm talking about rush hour traffic (normally) that at certain points just seems to slow down to 40mph and then, after a minute or two, speeds back up to something approaching "normal" highway speeds until it suddenly slows to 40mph again a couple of minutes later. Literally the only way I could avoid that is to travel at a constant 40mph on the highway and, quite frankly, that's something I am not willing to do.

jjyang

I see. That is different that a stop and go traffic. I admit keeping a constant 40 mph is not realistic. But the concept is the same. You look ahead several cars and time your acceleration and coasting. The minute or two that you are at 40 mph is where you rake in the FE. If you accelerate at a reasonable level, your mileage may suffer a little but should still be pretty awesome. Fortunately for me, I only get into this situation for a 1 mile section every day and its downhill so I can get the instantaneous gauge to stay near E a good portion of the time.

newcars

I think we're in agreement.

Just to put things in perspective, I am complaining about 32mpg (and once only getting about 29mpg) being "terrible" mileage in "rush-and-slow" traffic when if we were talking about just about any other car of comparable size and quality -- such as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry LE -- that 32mpg in the real world would be considered great!

I admit that I did not make this clear in my original post but I was really writing in response to those who are complaining about getting only in the "low 30's" in mileage with their new Camry Hybrids. Yes, driving style has a lot to do with it but if they find themselves were they are in a lot of "rush-and-slow" (and again, not "stop-and-go" but "rush-and-slow") traffic, then the "low 30's" may be the best they can do. And while mileage in the "low 30's" is appreciably less than advertised (and what most of us, including me, are getting), on the positive side, however, that is still a lot better than they would get would get in just about any other automobile in such situations.

Indeed, note that I average about 37mpg, all in all. The truly incredible and wonderful thing about our Camry Hybrids is that that 32mpg, while great in just about any other comparable automobile, is still something like 15%-20% worse than what I and most of us have come to expect from our cars.

drfill

32 would be 15-25% better than a 4-cylnider Camry/Accord could get you consistently.

DrFill

jjyang

True and that's not too far off from the latest epa estimate of 34 mpg combined which is pretty low. If we use this new estimate as standard, I bet most of us in this forum are hypermiling our TCH.

drfill

EPA mileage is just a guideline of estimate, it is not the rule.

Hybrids certainly are most efficient under certain circumstances, and an owner would definitely maximize these instances over an EPA tester.

I would expect a leadfoot to get low-30's, and a practiced owner to get 40MPG, eventually. 34 MPG may be a good split.

DrFill

wvrsmith

FYI - I think most or all of us know the EPA lingo. But when I bought I was told actual is about #6-37 [about 10%] which is an expected variance from the EPA rules of testing. But I actually got less than 30 - and not with a lead foot. I practice all the efficiency guide lines of the early threads here and the manual, and the best combined I can get is about 32. This is good but not near what we should expect; and I have tracked all these other owners who claim to get 38-42 with some driving effort or none. Conclusion - there is something wrong t\with the settings in this car, and I just want a fair reaction at the dealer, not garbage.

plknj

Yes, something is wrong if you are doing all of the above. As a bad tank for me is in the 38 mpg range. Good luck with the dealer.

jjyang

Real sorry to hear your low FE. Hey please share with us in detail on your daily driving terrain and time. Like your total miles per trip, various speed, etc.

Also, what is the first 3 letter of your vin? Mine is "JTN" which means its assembled in Japan. Is yours "4T1"?

redcamry

I have a Hybrid Camry with about 4,000 miles on it now. It is very hot, and I have been running the air. I am using the economy button. My mileage keeps getting worse. It is 25ish now. This is especially aggravating since they are advertising regular Camrys with 34mpg. I called service, and they replied that the mpg numbers are from the government. He was pretty defensive and basically acknowledged the mileage is nowhere near expected.
Having said all this, any advice on how to improve my mileage. By the way, the best I ever got was 34, when all conditions weather-wise were perfect.
Thanks!

wvrsmith

Based on Edmunds and my own checking, average mpg in stop & go around town is 30-32 mpg. If I really watch my driving habits, I can get the 32 mpg. Average trip is 5-8 miles, with several 2-4 miles. Around town. Impossible to get 40. Dealer told me it was all my fault and compared me to another just in at 34.6 when mine was at 30.2.

I think these guys are reading the NAV unit only, and not going by miles driven per tank.

I notice if I am down on the flats [like Kansas or Florida] and check the NAV there, it averages up to 36 mpg, but I am leading the parade a lot with my coasting.

On freeway, I tried the cruise control at 65 mph and it is significant - in gently rolling terrain, I can show up to 40 mpg on the NAV unit.

Here is my conclusion. They say 40 mpg - hogwash. No one can get that on a full tank with short drives around town. They say 36 on the highway, and with going a bit slower, I can do better.

I have talked with several TC owners without hybrid, and they all say they average 21-24 mpg.

So coax it back up 30-32 in combo driving, and enjoy a great car. Pays to read the early threads here on how to drive he TCH as a reminder. I printed them out and keep them in the car to read as I coast to a red light stop.

canonm

If your driving is short trips with a lot of stop and go I would expect 30 mpg from my experience. Try not to accelerate so quickly from a stop; use speed control even in town (if possible); the car will coast forever so don't brake so often; look at the instantaneous mpg meter on the left hand side of the display and just play around with driving techniques until you find a sweet spot (there is one at 40 mph--see other posts). If 34 mpg is the best you can get on the highway you should drop back to 70 mph and use speed control and you should see close to 40mpg.

talmy1

I think it is possible to get 40 mpg around town, but only in continuous service (such as delivery or taxi use). The problem is you are likely to get mid 20's in the first few miles while the engine warms up, even in hot weather. The system is pretty insistent about warming up the engine as a top priority to keep the emissions low. Advice I've heard is to group stops with the first being farthest away from home. I'd expect if the first leg involves speeds >40, where you can't use EV mode anyway, overall results would be better. I've also heard of great success using engine block heaters year around, if you are in for that hassle.

quixotic1

I just returned from an 800 mile trip. Asheville to Fort Lauderdale. I was going about 75 most of the way. I was doing nothing special other than staying behind trucks that were going that speed. It seems to make a very big difference in mileage. My Nav unit was reading a little over 40mpg during and after the trip. When I actually added gas(twice) my true average was close to 45mpg. I am very careful to use the same technique when adding gas, so I doubt it was a filling error. Now that I'm back in Fl I see I am getting around 38mpg according to my NAV. I will post an update when I get gas next. My TCH 50th Anniv. has almost 4k miles now.

By the way, the ride and lack of noise in the car make this a pleasure to drive on long trips. Love the car so far.

redcamry

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. You refer to early threads that recommend how to drive. Any highlights you can share?
Thanks

wvgasguy

There is a seperate thread specifically on tips. Easy reading.

wvrsmith

Go to Driving Tips Postings, and read 1st 10, esp I think 3 and 5 about pulse and glide.

Best tool you have is the FE or Mileage Consumption on the far left. My constant goal is to keep it above 35 as much as possible. I drive relatively short trips in California, and they love stop signs and lights here - so very hard to get high mpg around town.

On flat terrain I can spend more time on 60 than above 20 but those pesky lights always get in the way of optimal results.

One thing I noticed again tonight was that my E-mode does not kick in until after I have traveled about 1.5 miles, but 60 is pretty close to e-mode.

As for combo - city and freeway - I can get up to 35 mpg by cruising a bit slower on the freeway. Remember, the time saved by driving 70+ in about 15 miles over 64 is about one minute. Not worth the expense or the ticket.

redcamry

I will read those tips. Just met someone at the carwash with the identical car, but not a hybrid. She says she thinks she gets about 18 mpg. She is happy because she had an SUV before. So, even if the hybrid mileage is disappointing to me, it is still much better than the regular model. They advertise Camrys (not hybrid) as getting 34 mpg. Hmmm
Anyway, thanks for the info.

wvgasguy

They advertise Camrys (not hybrid) as getting 34 mpg. Hmmm

Every car manufacturer advertises the highway milage which is seldom met in real life. In my past vehicles I've typically averaged near the bottom EPA number. Sure I've had good tanks on trips but the AVERAGE has always been on the lower end. I've quit bragging about my TCH because it never fails someone will say "well I get 34 mpg". Then I followup with questions like, how did you check that? Did you average that on a tank or just a trip? etc....

You can't educate someone that really is not interested so until someone is ready to understand you're wasting your time trying to persuade them.

lzc

recamry, while how you drive will always affect mileage, after 10 months of TCH driving I'm pretty sure that it may be the least important factor in determining mpg.

Rules for high mileage:

1. Take no trips less than about 10 miles. Short trips, 2-3 miles especially, prevent the hybrid system from fully warming.

2. Move to a warmer climate. Cold weather hurts mileage.

3. Drive only on rural roads where you can maintain a speed between 35 and 55 mph, and take care to select roads with few stops.

4. Limit freeway driving speed to 70 mph tops. Lower is better.

5. And of course, always drive conservatively.

If you find some of these conditions, offered only half in jest, impossible to meet, well, I'm afraid you'll probably have to settle for less that optimal mileage.

Some people insist that driving technique will deliver high mileage. That is, if you learn to back off the gas pedal at the right moment and then gently reapply pressure, the engine will shut down and the battery will power the car for as long as those optimal driving conditions exists. Will this help? Yes. But only you can decide if it's worth the trouble.

Seriously, I've tried it all. When driving under the right conditions, 40 mpg+ is easy. When driving under bad conditions my mileage sinks into the low 30s, no matter what I do. I've learned to adjust to this disappointment with the aid of an psychoanalyst who specializes in the new specialty of "hybrid neurosis."

Good luck.

redcamry

IZC,
Your post is so funny! Thanks for the laugh. You get in the low 30's in bad conditions??!!! I am jealous. I am at 26 right now with extremely hot weather and a/c all the time.
Very clever post.

lzc

Oh, I forgot rule #6.

Always use the Eco mode when the AC is on. Yes, you will suffer on hot and humid days. But, hey, what is more important high mpg or your comfort?

redcamry

The sad thing is, I AM using economy mode. : )

jjyang

Ahem...I have a variation to this rule that I have been using lately...albeit only on the way home from work. You'll figure out why .... drum roll.....Here it is. forget Eco mode...forget even turning on the fan... shut all equipment that draws auxialliary power including DRL....Shut the window up the as soon as you go above 30 mph. On a 90 deg day, I esentially have my own personal sauna. Its great...save some gas and burn off fat. Definitely recommend a good car seat cover or upgrade to leather!

redcamry

What is DRL?:)

wvgasguy

Daytime Running Lights (I believe that's a little more humor from jjyang)

lzc

DRL = Daytime Running Lights.

Turning them off might increase your mileage by about .0003 mpg.

Seriously, if you're averaging only 26 mpg, you must be driving under the worst conditions imaginable, and doing it aggressively, I'd guess.

What happens if you take it out on a level freeway at 65 mph on cruise control? You should average near 40 mpg, assuming you aren't driving into a heavy headwind. Your situation doesn't make sense.