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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Honda Pilot

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_033046

    Lexus GX 470

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_033120

    TONS of photos on that Wieck link!

    http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    5-speed automatic, rear air suspension, a side opening rear door, 6500 pound towing, 265/65x17 tires, and a 109.8" wheelbase.

    I bet this is the basis for the new 4Runner, which is due next fall.

    Bob

    http://toyota.com/html/about/news/archive/press_release/product/docs/2002/20020106a_gx470.jsp
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    1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    It was always one of my favorite cars...Holman still makes them, at $500,000 each..they come set up as Mark Donohue's car was set up
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru will display their new "production" vehicle at the Detroit Show. Wonder what it will be? Hehe...

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I guess SOA feared Patti might let the name slip, and have kept her hostage in some dark dungeon (or a cave) deep below the surface at SOA headquarters. ;)

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on their Detroit Auto Show coverage...

    << The 2003 Ford Expedition should draw critical acclaim, but not the quirky '03 Subaru Baja. >>

    Bob
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    Quirky is what has made Subaru one of the most successful manufacturers recently. I'm not worried about the routinely idiotic critics.

    Jim
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Their prediction of "lack of acclaim" is.

    Bob
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    bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Both subarubaja. com and baja.subaru. com are password-protected right now. I guess they'll unlock them at the time of official unveiling, 5:30 ET ?

    --Bart
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I think the two are directly related. The lack of acclaim is infered to be related to the quirkiness, and the critics are scared to approve of anything a little different. Again, the critics are idiots more often than not, particularly in the market segment populated by the Subaru line of cars, and now, possibly trucks.

    Jim
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    That's very odd, coming from Edmunds. The Baja is being built because of the interest the ST-X drew.

    -Dennis
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree with the poster here, if you think the Odyssey was hard to come by, you ain't seen nothing once this debuts...

    Bob

    http://www.vtec.net/news/
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    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    what evil lurks in the hearts of [critics]". Reference?

    Ross
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    miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Here's a positive review that criticizes the critics. (link may expire in 2 weeks)

    Finding Solace in Sensibility by Warren Brown
    Washington Post, Sunday, January 6, 2002; Page N01

    Excerpt about the interior:

    "But when it comes to the GT Legacy Limited sedan, I disagree with critics who say that Subaru's interiors have a dime-store quality. That's a valid knock against the 270-horsepower Subaru Integra WRX pocket rocket, which is designed primarily for weekend racers who tend to care less about creature comforts. But it's not applicable to this week's test car."

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Well, he has good intentions. :-)

    -Dennis
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's true, the interior materials in the Legacy are definitely a step (or two) up from what the Forester and Impreza get. In fact I'd be perfectly happy if the 2003 Forester got the same materials as the Legacy.

    Had a heart-to-heart talk with the wife, and she really doesn't want a minivan. Oh well, just when I found a buying service that discounts Odysseys (after a long, long wait).

    So that makes the Pilot very interesting. Styling is very derivative, safe, but that's Honda for you. It does look boxy and practical, roomy, with more cargo space behind the 3rd seat than the Explorer or Rendezvous, or MDX for that matter.

    One big issue: it definitely looks like an SUV, unlike the MDX, which looks like a minivan crossover. I see some hints of a CR-V, but the C- and D-pillar remind me of an old Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the way the hood wraps around the grille reminds me of some Audis.

    It's not pretty, but it's not ugly either. That's all Honda needed for the wait lists to get really long, too.

    That GX470 is a real beauty. You think I can buy one for half price if I smile a lot? ;-)

    -juice
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    bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    So far I don't mind the way the FHI-GM partership is developing - i.e. no spoiling Subie originality with GM mass-market cra.. I mean stuff, but instead, hints of Subaru technology in GM's new cars. This item is in addition to all we've heard about AWD sharing.
    http://www.autonews.com/files/2002stories/solstice106.htm
    It's nice to see the WRX mentioned alongside the Corvette, anyway.
    --Bart
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - check out the Detroit concepts. I will soon. Then let's share impressions about them. The Pacifica doesn't look boxy enough for me. ;-)

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    there are far more pixs on this site than what Edmunds has&#151;of all the concepts and production cars. Click on "Latest images." This has been updated perhaps 3-4 times JUST TODAY!

    http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html

    I have it set that the "most recent" images are on page 1. The further back you go, the further back it was posted. Right now there are 128 pages!

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Dodge M80 (I'm always a sucker for trucks), and the Jeep Compass Coupe.

    Bob
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm still catching up with the last few from the LA show. Here goes, with my comments:

    Ford Fusion: don't bother selling it in the USA, the Escape makes this little ute redundant. Focus (pardon the pun) efforts on improving quality of existing models.

    Montero EVO: boy, that thing is UGLY! ARGH! What an eye sore, Aztek has a new rival for ugliness! It makes the Isuzu VehiCross seem conservative!

    Acura CL: 6 speed, LSD too.

    Neon: I say put that powertrain in a GT Cruiser, in fact I'm sure they will. Lots of people simply will not buy a car named Neon. They should offer a spoiler delete for those that don't need a basket handle.

    MPV: 5 speed auto (Jatco, not Ford CD4E thankfully), 200hp, traction control, and better mileage make it a contender.

    Jetta GLI/Beetle S: both have 6 speeds and stability control. GLI could be a good value, too.

    Notice a pattern here? What Subaru considered cutting edge a couple of years ago is now commonplace. The VDC system ought to be offered on lesser models, and forget the premium price, these are mainstream competitors. More gears in both trannies now won't even be seen as cutting edge, just keeping up with the pioneers.

    -juice
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    miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Dennis, I read the article twice (print & web) and missed that both times. Looks like Warren Brown is a victim of his spell checker. He just had a kidney transplant, so I'll cut him some slack.

    juice, what buying service?

    ..Mike

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well from the tiny photos, which don't seem to enlarge (yet!), it looks like the concept ST-X. No surprise...

    Click on "Baja" on left of screen.

    Bob

    http://www.media.subaru.com./
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    subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I'll try to get caught up with you folks tonight (long story about why I haven't been here much). Anyway, make sure you check out Subaru.com tonight after 6:00. Look towards the lower left of the screen for new product information!

    Patti
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    Looks pretty cool to me. Surfboards through the mid gate and all! Now, for engine choices.......

    Jim
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Explorer, but not AOL! Arrgh!!!

    It does look good, and very much like the ST-X concept.

    The cladding is still a bit much for me, and I doubt, judging by the looks, that I will be happy in terms of towing. Keeping my fingers crossed...

    The wheelbase doesn't look to be increased, and there may(?) be less rear overhang than the ST-X. I like the chrome tubing on the bed much better than huge sailpanel on the Chevy Avalanche.

    Yeah, we need "specifics" now!

    Bob
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    does look shorter from that perspective, but might just be in the angles. Yes, bring on the specifics!! Does anybody have a link to any live broadband video from the show? I'm coming up empty.

    Jim
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    To put critics in perpective, just remember that the opinion of a critic is just the opinion of one person and in the scheme of things that does not amount to a hill of beans.

    Cheers Pat.
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    only gets a 2.5l ?! :-(

    -Dave
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    And I was going to say something to that point during my posts above, but then I got to thinking about all the times you can read between the lines and see that they are trying to not anger the Hondas and Toyotas of the world because they are so powerful in the politics of the auto industry, and I decided to just call them idiots instead... :)

    Jim
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    bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    165hp four-banger only? This is a joke right?

    Has the price been announced? Can't find it on the Subaru site. I guess if that keeps the price down it's OK.

    --Bart
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    didn't see a price either, but I do see the Baja. patti, I know you can't comment but I sure hope that the 2.5L is only for the first model year. I am shocked that this truck didn't debut with an option to have the 3.0L H6.

    -Colin
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    breldbreld Member Posts: 6,710
    I'm not simply trying to stir the pot, but am sincerely curious:

    Do you truly like the looks of the Baja? Or do you appreciate the functionality of such a vehicle? Or is it simply that it's a Subaru product?

    I find the Baja rather odd looking, bordering on ugly. The cladding appears overdone, especially over and behind the rear wheels. And, unfortunately, as some have alluded to, the use of the 2.5L takes away some of the utility of the vehicle (i.e., towing).

    Drawing on Juice's previous analogy, if this vehicle had a Kia badge on it, would you still find it appealing?

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

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    bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Yes it is ugly. But Subarus are high quality cars, fun to drive, and with very high utility. That's all that I care about, and I'd buy this "cruck" right away...

    ... if it weren't for the fact that I'm newly married and my wife will refuse to ride in my car if she deems it ugly. She already ruled out the Outback and the Legacy Wagon and I have no doubt the Baja will share that fate.

    Thank goodness my Forester still passes. And so does the WRX. Hmmmm... :-)
    --Bart
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    For the Baja. Anyone interested in a set?

    -mike
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    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I basically agree with you. I also think that there is MUCH to much rear overhang. It's not Aztek ugly, but it's getting mighty close. On the other hand, I'm definitely not in the target demographic for such a product. Also, unless it is MUCH lighter than it looks, 165 hp just isn't going to do it IMHO.

    Ross
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, I'm wondering why it wasn't offered with the H6 also. Anyone know the MSRP for the Baja?

    Ken
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I'm guessing about $27k - same as the Outback Ltd. range.

    Have to agree, the tail looks crude. Well, maybe like the bugeyed WRX it will grow on us. 8-)

    No H6. Maybe they haven't figure out a MT to mate it with. Or there aren't enough of H6s in production to go around. Hehe... maybe the 2.5l SC concept is still alive.

    -Dave
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    &#149; No H-6.

    &#149; No dual-range tranny.

    &#149; Continues with hokey OWL tires.

    &#149; Towing probably no better than an Outback??

    &#149; Flash-only web site which I can't access!

    Reading between the lines

    This doesn't bode well for the '03 Outback or Legacy. We're all hoping that the H-6 will migrate down into lesser Outbacks. Well, if the Baja doesn't get the H-6, do really think we will see it in lesser Outbacks?

    I guess it will appeal to those who want something different. However, it's not what I had hoped for.

    Bob
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Even though I can't get into the Flash web site, I got a PR from the following site:

    http://prnewswire.com/

    Type the word Subaru in the "search" field. There is a press release from Subaru, detailing the specifics.

    Bob
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    bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    there's still hope - the 03 Forester Turbo could turn out to be the best offering of Sport and Utility in their lineup.

    As long as the laid-off Aztek designers who apparently designed the Baja stay away from this one.

    At what show will the 03 forester be revealed? Does anyone know yet?

    --Bart
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It does have a moonroof but it's puny like the size of the front one of an outback :(

    Towing will be the same or worse than the outback

    Dual range tranny not there was a given.

    No H6 = bad.

    It' basically an e-camino Outback, the only good thing is the gated mid-section was retained, if I read it correctly.

    Other than that it's nothing special.

    In the pictures the jetski on the back makes it squat pretty badly in the back! That is horrible!

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    We won't see the turbo-Forester until the following year.

    After seeing the Baja, I'm lowering my hopes for the new Forester. I'm sure it too won't be what I had been hoping for.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    and agree with Edmunds statement:

    << The 2003 Ford Expedition should draw critical acclaim, but not the quirky '03 Subaru Baja. >>

    Bob
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    It does? My eyes must be tired, or maybe it's the tears. :.(

    So, towing cap is 2000lbs?

    -Dave
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that I've seen yet on towing. I would expect it to be no better than the Outback.

    Bob
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