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Maybe they expected perfection because of their image of Honda, I don't know...no one complained of being placed in danger because of the VCM, just that they "sensed something"...to some it may be irritating, some ignore it, some cannot feel or sense it at all...
Any GM 4 speed trans of the last 30 years will give you a sensation when it upshifts or downshifts...the car is functioning correctly, and you don't drive in a vacuum...
Aside from feeling the car go into and out of ECO mode, almost like engaging and disengaging the overdrive button on my Ford, what is actually wrong with the car that is lawsuit material???
Please enlighten me on how the car is defective simply because it literally is not SEAMLESS, which may have been a poor choice of words from Honda...
From a legal standpoint, this basically boils down to a product liability issue. Does the product deliver what it is intended and advertised to deliver? I also see no potential class action, but in the context of a single lawsuit or arbitration case, the Accord owner must be able to prove both the defect as well as the damages sustained. That's the issue. The change in Honda's advertising is only relevant if the owners can prove that they were damaged by a defectively designed and operating car.
I agree with all of your points.
In case you haven't read the posts by those of us who are experiencing problems, let me explain:
One cannot compare this to the sensation felt with the normal shifting of a transmission. This surging experience is sometimes felt constantly while driving at a consistent speed on a straight road. If one was to compare this to a transmission, then a transmission operating in this manner with the corresponding shifting sensation, especially when the manufacturer claims that this will not be felt, would be reason to deem the car defective and there would be an expectation that it be fixed.
This has nothing to do with being in danger or being harmful. It is also not an experience that is merely because of "oversensitivity" of the driver. Most cars do not appear to exhibit this problem. Some do. Mine included.
Any legal remedy here would be addressing the issue of the cost to the owner in either fixing the problem (not sure how) or putting them back to the place they would have been had the information given them been accurate to start with and they would have made their purchase decision accordingly.
Imagine you being told - in writing - that there would be NO sensation when engaging and disengaging the overdrive button on your Ford. You purchased the vehicle and subsequently found that you experienced annoying sensations whenever pushed the button. Imagine taking it back to Ford and receiving stonewalling and statements that it was "normal". Would you not be seeking some remedy for this?
This is our situation.
What I DO see is that if an owner could find a lawyer to file suit (or do it pro se) simply the bad publicity might make Honda look at your complaints with a new attitude...just like many posters have taken in their vehicles to have the computer module "flashed" with updated programming, maybe all Honda needs to do to smooth out some of these rough spots is to flash the VCM with some updated firmware that may just make it "seamless"...maybe...
I'm not doubting anyone here at all, just throwing out the fact that the VCM tuning for the Pilot was honestly, HONESTLY, imperceptable to me. My aunt had no idea what I was doing turning the A/C off trying to listen for something. She never felt it or even knew what I was talking about, and the Pilot would be for her.
Has anyone heard if the Odyssey with 6-4-3 VCM has had the problems of the Accord?
This seems to be a problem with a very small number of V6 Accords. A handful of posters has kept the issue alive on this board for months. I've test driven 2008 V6 Accords twice with no noticible hesitation during shifting. While I feel for these individuals, their experience does not refect, in my opinion, the likely experience of the majority of V6 Accord buyers. I keep wondering what their purpose is to keep this thread alive, since their dialogue should appropriately be with Honda.
A few people who were most vocal have disappeared completely.....itochu, phantomv, rodarski, etc. Not sure if they were banned by Edmunds, or if they have gone on to other issues in their lives.
But suffice to say, it's not a large number of people who are vocal about this problem. And few new folks have come to express similar problems.
And there is almost no news outside these forums that track with these complaints.
Anyone in Illinois with this issue? I'd love to drive your car just to see what you are talking about.
This forum may be the only place where folks with the same symptoms may find additional questions and maybe some answers...
I know if it was me with a car that I thought was defective, I would be posting hourly...I feel for those who think they have a defect, I just question the class action lawsuit theory...
The previous poster noted that the problems seem to be from the east coast...if true, maybe there was a different manufacturer of the VCM units for cars made for the east coast...maybe one batch of VCM units has a slight programming error and it only shows up in vehicles that Honda sent to east coast dealers...
After all, when there are food recalls, companies often note that the shipmenst of food were only restricted to, say, 10 states, all west of the Rockies...maybe the same happened with Honda, and there was a 3 month span of production that had substandard VCM units...
Just guessing...but still, the class action may be impractical...
I dont come to this site much, but I thought the purpose was for cross-talk. Is there a minimum number of people who have to have a problem before it qualifies for a thread? It's like the honda transmissions - I've read that only 3 percent of them are bad. That's fine if you're one of the 97 percent that got a good one, but if you weren't - well, you pay the price. Our well-maintained 4 cyl accord has had four (4) transmissions in less than 95,000 miles and this one clunks between gears and briefly pauses when put in gear before it gives a hard grab. Is the same true of the VCM technology? If you are one of those with the problems you are simply to suck it in? We test drove the VCM accords and each of ours constantly surged off and on like an a/c unit kicking in, but the a/c wasn't on. I fortunately wont join the disgruntled accord VCM owners because of this thread. I thank those who have voiced their concerns as they saved us a lot of aggrevation and money. We wish we had known about the transmissions before we bought our accord!
Now, I'd like to ask everyone to get back to the subject. And that subject is the VCM, not the participants of this discussion.
Thanks!
Not really. It may be some type of liability issue but not products liability. To be a products liability issue there must be some form of bodily injury or actual property damage involved. In other words you have to be physically injured by the product or the product has to have caused damage to some other property you own.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My apologies for any confusion.
Roy
This is ironic to be mentioned today because one of the great class action lawyers had to testify today about his part in one of the suits--Stan Chesley, Cincinnati. Apparently there's a problem with how the things were handled. I'll have to do some reading.
"Cincinnati lawyer Stan Chesley, who helped negotiate Kentucky’s $200 million fen-phen settlement, has disclosed he won’t testify for three fellow lawyers accused of bilking their clients out of $46 million." Class action gone wrong
I suspect a class action suit would not benefit the owners who do have a problematic car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That said, as I have stated, my car "cured" itself. Not only that but I checked highway mileage this weekend - 156 miles at about 80 MPH from NYC to Clarks' Summit, PA - 6 gallons, or 26 MPH. 138 miles from Clark's Summit to Syracuse , NY at 70-75 MPH? 4.6 gallons or 30 MPG
I am impressed, and beginning to love the car more!
Also noticed going up hills at 10 to 20 mph, some hesitation. Is this due to the gearing? On the plus side the gas tank registered 1/2 full at 245 miles. Will take and post the mileage tomorrow night under the mileage thread.
Roy 21
And the ironic thing is that the lawyers don't have any damage at all
I can REALLY empathize with anyone experiencing what I did for the first 3000 miles. I do find it VERY interesting that Honda has changed its advertising - clearly they did not do so because 3 or 4 people on here have been complaining about the VCM. No, I suspect there is a groundswell of complaints and, worse yet, people telling dealers they will never buy another Honda again after having this "completely seamless" VCM foisted on them. Ours is not completely seamless - probably closer to the "nearly" seamless as now described - you REALLY have to be looking to feel something - before it would make my wife, as a passenger, ill. Good luck!
There are different reasons why Honda may alter its advertising propaganda, beyond their being a significant design or mechanical problem. We will find out in good time.
mislead
Main Entry: mis·lead
Pronunciation: \ˌmis-ˈlēd\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mis·led \-ˈled\; mis·lead·ing
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit
intransitive verb
: to lead astray : give a wrong impression
synonyms see deceive
— mis·lead·er noun
— mis·lead·ing·ly \-ˈlē-diŋ-lē\ adverb
Roy 21
If I had a settlement of 10 billion, even with a fee of 1/3 ($3.3 billion), I would certainly reduce my fee by 95% and still have enough to live on for 10 generations...how much does anyone need/want???
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Attraction for me with these cars has been the ability to keep them for a lot of years and register high mileage. My 95 Legend is still a very solid car and terrific to drive. I find the 08 Accord V6 sedan very appealing but the VCM may deter me and certainly the comments on this forum. The concept of shutting off cylinders is something I find unappealing because of added complexity but if it works and is reliable.....
Unfortunately, the Honda website gives negative information on the transition to 3 cylinder operation by stating the radio plays out of phase. This is obviously an aural trick to try and overcome something that the mecahanical systems can't accomplish themselves. Personally, I'm not sure of this sort of technology could ever be made to work seamlessly.
Most of the complaints on here strike me as entirely reasonable but I would have to ask if they were apparent during a test drive? I will plan to test drive this car but I'm concerned that a failure of the systems that manage this function, at lets say the 125K mark, might mean getting rid of the car. I'm also curious if, 3 cyl operation kicks in a 60MPH on the highway, what are the engine RPM's?
I would be looking for the 08 V6 Sedan to give me a drive quality reminiscent of the Legend. Perhaps Honda might be better served by making this system optional?
My experience is this: When driving the car at lower speeds (mostly city driving) you tend to not notice the VCM surging AS OFTEN. reason, the car is never cruising long enough to notice the maddening effects. This is due to alot of starting, stopping and acceleration etc typical with city driving and TEST DRIVES. Aslo, it should be noted that the 45-50 MPH and 60-70MPH vibration issues are masked by the typical test drive run through. Take the car for an hour... drive in the city, drive multiple terrains. most importantly take it out on the highway for a 30 min drive. test with Cruise on and off and def test between 60-70MPH for longer durations.. be sure to test drive the vehicle you are looking to BUY not the demo (at least on your final test drive) if it doesnt demonstrate surging, lurching and vibration in the steering wheel and seat then you are golden. I will bet you my car though, it will. :sick: