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Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Comments
M
Also any knowledge of how this model year has held up. When do major service overhauls tend to occur, etc.
Thanks
Pre-Owned S class sedan.
Based upon the prices I have seen so far it seems I can get a 2000 Model S430 with about 40,000 Miles for about 50-55 K USD. I am planning to lease it for three years and hopefully buy the same later.
Do you think it may be a good option ?
Any particular thing that I may need to be aware of ... I have no specific color or options in mind
thanks in advance !
First the 2000 will have a analog non-trimode phone instead of digital trimode. This will limit your phone range and phone service options if you decide to use the phone.
Also I have a 01 S430 and have had several things go wrong and I bought mind new! Here is a list:
Brakes make noise after 10k miles-was told that this is due to the metal pads they are now using and I had to fight with Mercedes to put Brake Silencers on the car...this has help.
The entire Navigation unit went and had to be replaced...that cost almost $7k
I have had to replace the keys several times because they did not open the trunk or the doors.
Had to replace the phone twice
And just this weekend...it was towed away because of Antifreeze leak (I don't know what is wrong with it...I will find out this Monday)
Having said this, I would strongly encourage you to get a extended warranty thru the dealer if possible.
Is there any other thing that I need to be sure of in a two year car, I am wondering about some of the points ...
- Is 40,000 Miles too much to consider in buying a two year old car
- Is there a way I could check if this is a car that has been in any accident
- In terms of price, is 50K USD a reasonable price for a two year old S430
thanks a ton !
- Is 40,000 Miles too much to consider in buying a two year old car >That is on the high side and although it is a 00....the car was probably on the road at least half of the year in "99.
- Is there a way I could check if this is a car that has been in any accident. >Yes, you can put the VIN through Carfax.com. It is a small fee and you will get a report back on that vehicle.
- In terms of price, is 50K USD a reasonable price for a two year old S430 >I think it may be high...but it is what the market will bear. Edmunds has a really good assessment for new and used car prices. Below, I just put some general info into Edmunds and it appears that you are getting a very good deal! But run the VIN thru Carfax to make sure of no major accidents and lastly get an extended warranty for sure! Lastly enjoy one of the most awesome cars made today!!
2000 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 4 Dr S430 Sedan
Color: Black
Mileage: 40,000
Condition: Clean
Zip: 01879
Trade-in Private Party Dealer Retail
Base Price $51,882 $55,014 $57,905
Optional Equipment $1,729 $1,840 $2,158
Color Adjustment $136 $144 $152
Regional Adjustment $82 $87 $91
Mileage Adjustment $-841 $-841 $-841
Condition Adjustment $0 $0 $0
Total $52,988 $56,244 $59,465
Certified Used Vehicle $61,015*
* You should expect to pay this amount if this vehicle has been certified as part of a manufacturer or authorized reseller program.
M
Ever since this engine was talked about regarding to Maybach, I dreamed of its combination with the S. Surprisingly, Mercedes is turning this dream into reality, by being exremely dearing in the power department (not one, but two 500 hp models, S600 and S55).
I am awaiting the stats to see how the Twin Turbo and AMG compare in performance. S600 is said to reach 62 mph in 4.8 seconds, and we already know that MB tends to be conservative in the beginning (SL55 consistently beat the claimed 4.7 sec in almost any test done by magazines around the globe). My logic tells me that the AMG should be even faster, or else what would be the point. Although, the current S600 has outperformed the current S55, so anything can happen.
To all who can afford these fine automobiles, I wish I was in your place!!!
Where si everyone? It is such a special time for MB fans, and no one is around? Or should I assume you are lining up at the dealerships? LOL
But I still like the S600 better...
I also would like the S600 better. It is smoother, quieter, and should be much more refined, be it in the ride or the quality of materials (more high wuality wood, whereas I can see the S55 getting aliminum or stone trim, which in itself is not bad). And that extra 74 lb/ft of torque should make for a more relaxed acceleration. The torque peak in the V12 also comes substantially earlier (at 1800 rpm) whereas the S55 achieves this at 2650). I do not believe that the S55 can outperform the S600. I believe the difference belies in the way these two engines will deliver the power. That should make them feel like two different animals.
Both of these cars are a bit of an overkill. They have as much horsepower, and more torque than a Viper. These power games are getting crazy. At least, MB is giving BMW, AUDI, and VW a run for their money. Somehow, their 400 something Hp seem less than before. That should make for some overtime at the development sites. I can say it is safe to assume that an M7 is in the way.
I am looking forward to seeing some more official information, including some specs, for there cars.
Trust me, I am a full fleged car enthusiast. I just find it hard to be enthusiastic about a car that less that 1% of the United States population can afford.
Anyway, I am sorry for stretching it like this. I do respect your opinion.
I feel that Mercedes is a great company, with a great product...and they know it. Just like Harley Davidson did when the bikes they built were the best. Now look at them...they are just overpriced machines for fat slobs who still think Peter Fonda defined the Badass category.
I see the same thing happening: They begin to care less about keeping at the top of all of their game, because they are the top name.
However, Mercedes is taking a different approach to the situation. Harley Davidson decided to stop revamping their product lines, and just sell the same bike year after year, and increase their prices to fit their market demand (brilliant buisinessmen behind this thought process...I mean who cares about the prolonged future success of the company as long as I can retire comfortable).
Mercedes is doing it a little different. The top of the line Mercedes products blow away the competition. However, on a price competitive basis, they blow away nothing. The C series mercedes are nothing but dulled up BMW 3 series clones, marketed to make it seem like you are buying a piece of S500. The SLK is a dulled up BMW Z3, but marketed to make it seem like you are buying a piece of SL500. etc etc etc...In reality, they are just boring cars with nothing innovative but the name.
So yes, I would love to be the person to drive an SL500...but unfortunately I am not, and thousands of other car enthusiasts are not as well. We could buy a lesser Mercedes, but as we all know, there is nothing too enthusiastic about the lesser models.
Mercedes is content selling mediocre cars, at inflated prices, because they have a few standout cars and a rich history. A hypothetical exaggeration would be like Ferarri deciding to revive the yugo(maybe build it in italy though), and market it as having the same rich sports car tradition and heritage as a $250,000 Ferarri. But you get all hyped up about buying a new Ferarri that you can actually afford, and it is nothing but pure disappointment.
Porsche has it covered. When you buy a base boxster, you get the same, or similar enjoyment as if you were to buy a GT2. BMW has it covered as well...when you buy a BMW 3 series, you get a little mini piece of what it would be like to drive an M3. Even Lexus has it covered...buying an ES300, you get a little taste of the luxury to be had with an LS430. However, Mercedes has their top of the line product too far out of reach, and their available product lacks all similarity to the good stuff. But it sells because the Mercedes name is/was at the top of their game.
That is why I, and many others, do not get excited about a new Mercedes supercar coming out. There is not one single remote chance that we will ever experience anything like it...desipite what the clever copywriters conjure up.
I think it is fun to dream about cars. However my dreams have shifted. Instead of dreaming about McLaren F1s, Porsche Turbo S's, Ferarri 550s, and Aston Martin Vantages...I have decided to dream about having a well paying job with a loving family, and a house that I own, with a nice, $14,000 Dodge Razor to drive to the track on weekends...with my son in the passenger seat, observing everything I do so when it is his turn, he can make the same run.
So, call again when they decide to put a 250 horsepower engine in the C230 coupe...and still keep it less than 30 grand. Thats the stuff that gets me excited, and somehow I feel that many enthusiasts feel the same way.
the S Class is a car I admire greatly,but I find the AMG version too boy-racerish,and the 12 cylinder just too needless.
I admit that I would rather buy a 3 series before a C-Class, but that is me. Not all people looking for a compact sedan are looking to do what I would into a 3 series, that is drive it sportly.
www.germancarfans.com
As a side note, I ran across a Mc Laren F1 near Telluride. It was silver with NY plates. He passed us going the other way, then must have turned around because he came up behind me shortly thereafter. We were on a pass road between Placerville and Ridgeway, I selected "sport" and picked up the pace. I was no match for the F1 but, we had a VERY good time. It is a bizzare site to see the driver in the middle of the car! He finally shot past and continued on. Like most of these experiences, we saw the highway patrol right afterwards, I am glad he was in front, and happier still that we had toned it down by then. It was my first sighting of an F1, very cool car!
Myself, I will be glad to get a 2001?2002 used S600 a few years down the line, hopefully with sport package. By then, some depreciation will be dialed in.
i can purchase a S500 from.
My 600 goes 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds, that is seriously fast for any car let alone one of its size. It already wears fixed caliper Brembo brakes grabbing cross drilled rotors. This is serious stuff for a sedan. I personally think it would be irresponsible to sell a 500hp car to someone without some high speed driving instruction under their belt.
I honestly don't know if I will follow the trend up and buy the newer versions. They are spectacular but, I am tempted to simplify. I would be tempted by a V8 mid size from BMW or MB. Maybe even a wild RS6 Audi would do. The honest truth about these cars is that they require more service than I care to keep up with. As they get more complex and powerful I suspect the maint headaces to continue.
Now about the lesser Mercedes models not being much. Please, that pure bs. The C-Class does just what it's supposed to: drive like a Mercedes, ride like a Mercedes, and it has most of the same features of the higher priced Mercedes. What, every Mercedes is supposed to have 300+ hp. If you're going to look at it that way, the base Boxster doesn't make any sense at all, considering it's price/hp ratio. You don't think a C320 sport gives you *some* of C32's feel and ride, just like a BMW 330 gives you "some" of an M3? A Lexus ES300 is a Camry with a better interior, period. It's amazing what wood and leather can do. Toyota is so incompetent at styling that they couldn't even give the 2 cars their own look, they look more alike now more than ever.
I hardly think Mercedes is in trouble because some a car-board don't get "excited" about a new MB. You have nothing to back up that me and "many others" statement. It's funny how the magazines keep harping about driving dynamics as the reason that they prefer BMWs, but MB outsells each BMW model in almost every class worldwide and in the U.S. In short (I've said this elsewhere on these boards), let BMW be BMW, and MB be MB.
"However, Mercedes has their top of the line product too far out of reach, and
their available product lacks all similarity to the good stuff."
What? I don't understand that statement. A 911TT or GT2 isn't out of reach, or a 760Li, or an A8.
What similarities does the C-Class lack compared to the S or E-Class cars? If you expect a complete S-Class replica at C-Class prices you're not going to find that type of relationship at any brand. All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.
It's cool with you me that you don't like Mercedes, because thats obviously the reason for such a off-base post. You're a Porsche fan right, I'm starting to wonder.
v12power,
Trouble with the S600? You don't even sound the same......
M
My '98 750 has been to the dealer 19 times in 45k miles. I bought the 600 expecting better things from MB. I think the reality is that these cars have gotten SOOOOO complex that it is difficult to keep the reliability up. This is where the Lexus crowd chimes in. The difference is that my 600 has far more technology built in that any LS430. I am sure they will catch up in features, they are excellent at copy catting. That will be a few years down the road to be sure. So I am currently a little dis-illusioned about these top of the line cars.
Circumstances change as well. I may be spending a lot more time in the mountains. I have property there, of course the access is a gravel road. I may have to change my moniker as both V12s may be sold/traded off soon in favor of 4x4s.
Don't get me wrong, I think the S600 is the finest car availible. The power and handling are at near Porsche levels. The luxury features shame Bently. The style is faultless, I really love the car. More than anything it may just be time for a change.
M
That is not the point. Mercedes' expensive cars are exceptional. Mercedes less expensive cars are nothing like them. They share very little technology. They share very little in way of build quality. The only thing they do seem to share are those headlights.
The C coupe is a wheezy underpowered kid car. The CLK is a luxurious fast and solid coupe.
It would be different if the C coupe was a slightly less fast, slightly less luxurious, and slightly less weighty coupe...but its not.
The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche.
So, you said it correctly: All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.
Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain.
Learning the hard way sucks, doesnt it?
Merc...remember all your derogatory comments about Cadillac and their failed attempt at cylinder deactivation. I think your words were similar to "Cadillac failed but Mercedes got it right". Looks like you spoke too soon, doesnt it?
Personally I wouldnt go with lexus either, V12power. But thats just me. You might be too jaded right now to not look at lexus. It sounds though, like you are looking for a nice 2002 Audi A8 quattro.
I remember reading a motorcycle magazine editor section...fairly recently. Topic was how Japanese bikes have no character.
Editor said something to the effect of: Screw that...I once spent the night at a piss poor hotel in kettleman city, CA, because my Norton had just a little bit too much character. Buy a cheap fun bike with lots of character for local rides, but buy a real bike when you want to get somewhere.
Simply not true. The smallest of Mercedes' cars share all the same safety and engine technology. What do you want a V12 C-Class?
The C230 is doing just fine thank you. Now the BMW 318ti was a wheezy kid car, the C230 offers almost all of Mercedes' virtues at a very low price.
"The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche."
Boy you're in left field. Yes that may be true with Porsche because gasp(!) they only have 2 cars! No luxury brand's smallest cars drives the same as their largest most expensive car. Not BMW, Lexus, MB, Jaguar, Audi, none of them. You're really reaching if you think a 325i drives the same as say a 745i or 760i.
"Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain."
Well you might not get it, doesn't really matter, because buyers i.e. those buying the cars are.
If you think a Mercedes drives like a Buick then you're lost. Unrefinded powertrains...hmmmm...funny never seen than anywhere about a Benz unless it's on the 4-cylinder models. I personally don't want any 4-cylinder Benzes to be sold here, but if you think the V6 cars unrefined you're alone in that thinking, especially when it comes to the E320 and C320 models.
Yeah I remember exactly what I said about Cadillac's sorry attempt and Cylinder - deactivation. The difference between MB and Cadillac is that MB's technology does work, and it works better than Cadillacs ever did. One S600 has a problem and yes the whole idea has failed yet the V12 has been on the market for 2+ years now, without any major problems. Once owner, yep that makes it complete. Get a clue.
M
I am not looking at Lexus. They may be wonderful cars but if you want to compare to Buick, there you go. The LS430 is a more refined, reliable Park Avenue, no style, no soul.
I think one problem with the C-class is that it is not as good a small car as the 3 series BMW. With a 330i you get one heck of a fun little car. The C320 offers no manual trans, the manual trans 240 is no match for its BMW competition. That does not mean the C does not have many other MB virtues, I think it does.
If you move up one class to the E and 5 series, I think the E-class are spectacular cars. The 5 has a worthless back seat, the E is comfortable. I would even choose the E55 over an M5. On quality I would say the 3 series beats the C-class, but the E-class definately beats the 5 series. I guess I just don't know how much S-class character you can build in for $30k. I think the 3 series by comparison has always excelled over the smallest MB.
I think the C suffers more by comparison with excellent competition than by being a poor vehicle in its own right.
Just my $.02...
Cadillacs cylinder deactivation never worked? I am assuming you have "numerous" stories about how the V8-6-4 blew up in everybodys face. "I had a friend's uncle who had a mistress, who's dog's personal trainer owned a Cadillac V8-6-4."
Right?
The fact is, the technology worked, it just didnt work too well. I know someone personally who owns a V8-6-4, and it still works. The advantage is maybe 5 mpg, but it still works.
But I am also assuming you will pull the "thats just one person" argument again.
Somehow, just one person doesnt matter to you when you are talking Mercedes, but just one person seems to matter when talking about Cadillac.
I am looking forward for more information on these facelifts, but I guess keeping people waiting is part of MB's strategy.
So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping up?
Why are Mercedes owners/fanatics justifying the unreliability of the car?
This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore.
The fact remains that Cadillac PULLED the system from the market because of problems, Mercedes hasn't and won't because they aren't having nearly as many issues with it.
You hear from the S600 owner that it was a minor problem in the first place yet you equate that with technolgoy not being sound, yet it's in V12 Benzes all over the world and there hasn't been so much as sound about it. If Mercedes' V12 was having the kind of issues Cadillac had you'd being hearing about it in same manner everyone is hearing about BMW M3 engine failures, i.e. it would be big news.
There is a difference between one Cadillac fanatic keeping a 4-6-8 model running all these years, AFTER Cadillac pulled it than hundreds of MB V12 worldwide using their cars everyday, I know you understand that.
Now you're going to tell me that you know the technology worked even when GM admitted that it didn't. Truly blind.
"So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does
Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping
up?"
Do you understand that no car is perfect? My point is that Mercedes-Benz is closer to being perfect than Cadillac will probably ever be.
"This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair
costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore. "
Where oh where did anyone say they had to PAY MONEY for repairs on their S600 because of the V12?
You've truly lost it.
M
M
M
Thanks.
Pat
Sedans Host
M
I would say that not only does a comparison with Caddilac not belong here but it would be nothing short of absurd ANYWHERE. I drove a new Seville SLS for 10 days immediately prior to buying the S600. Trust me, it is like comparing filet mingon and dirt.
I did trade the S600 off however. We already had a V12 BMW. While the S600 was a serious tour de force, it may have been a tad sterile next to the sportier feeling BMW. Besides the payment on the BMW was less than 1/3 as much since it was purchased lightly used.
I really miss the car but, we are trying to purchase land in the mountains. Two V12 cars was overkill, something had to go. We bought a new G500 as a replacement.