Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

mbnut1 · July 2001

I don't disagree that previous S-Class was probably the pinnacle of the traditional Benz's. The only thing I have a concern about those was they were pretty complex containing lots stuff that can break and the early ones had front end vibration problems. The older E's were simpler hence more reliable. I prefer the the looks and size of the newer E's but based on several test drives IMHO they lack the sense of solidity imparted by the W124's.

drdan976 · July 2001

I just bought some E430 Sport wheels to replace the e320 wheels.

The 5 spoke is soooooo clean and looks great on the car. I also have Eibach springs lowering the car about an 1.25" all around.

Dan

tendons · July 2001

In the E55, since the front and back are different sizes and the all are directional, the spare tire only really fits the left front. It can be used of course for the other wheels, but only as a short term solution. Not horrible, but annoying.The other solution to flat tires is using the trunk to carry four spares, also a bit annoying.

jnee · July 2001

Thanks for replying so quickly. I had read in post#1802 by bargamon that you were the "resident guru" on the 4matic and received an impression that the 4matic might cause me problems later on. I think I should ask bargamon why the opinion about staying away from 4matics. But if you haven't heard anything,especially considering the percentage of 4matics in Canada, I guess I can hope for the best. Know of any major problems with the 320? Thanks again for your time and hope to be a member of the happy MB owner club, assuming I'll be able to afford it:) By the way, did you get the email I sent you? Just curious.

jnee · July 2001

Hi. I was reading your post#1802. What possible long term issues with the 4matic were you referring to?

jnee · July 2001

Any thoughts about the steering column being tilted to the left and the car going right as posted in #1919, #1920 and others?

jnee · July 2001

Anyone know if the $2000 incentive will also apply to the 2002 E320s due to the model change for 2003s?? My dealer says no, but he may be trying to unload a 2001. I'm currently looking at a 2001 E320 with second choice color and E1(which I don't really need and I wonder if Xenon lights will stay around long due to all the complaints about them from other drivers). Any info would be appreciated.

habitat1 · July 2001

I was advised by the sales manager of one of the local Mercedes dealers that, although the $2000 incentive may go away for a short time after the 2002 models start arriving, he was very confident similar savings will return by the fall. He actually encouraged me to wait and order a 2002 wagon to get it equiped exactly as I want. For me, an October or November delivery works better anyway.

jures · July 2001

drdan, i too am interested to going to 17" amg wheels, i like the monoblock look on my 00 e320 4matic, what tires did you go with? i am trying to give the car a sport look and feeling.

incentives, as another option, i am looking for a new e430 4matic that would be loaded, i like the deal the dc dealer would give me, but colors and options aren't right. i've tried to get someone at multiple dealerships to comment on mb carrying incentives into the 2002 cars, no one is wishing to venture an opinion.

roger

bargamon · July 2001

I think previous generation 4matic had some reliabilty issues. That is why I reffered you to drew. He has newer version and appears to be a happy camper.
I have an 00' ml, and don't anticipate any problems. It works great!

Funny thing about these cars. They do have a high price tag, and I see you are having to deal with that. But when you start looking around at alternatives for less, it almost becomes impossible. By that, how can you afford not to buy it??

I love driving my car.

tendons · July 2001

my e55 did that and they adjusted the camber the smallest amount possible(apparently there are 8 degrees of adjustment) and they felt that that should take care of it. I havn't picked the car up yet, but will post about it.

dunninla · July 2001

Jures, I also upgraded to 17" AMG monoblocks, chrome (my car is black), in an unusual size: 8.5" all around, at Globe Motorsports in LA. They do at least 50 MB each week, probably more than any shop in the country. It was the size they thought looked best on the E320, second only to the 8" front, 9" back of the E55. I chose 8.5" because I can rotate the tires.

My tires were chosen for SoCal weather: 5% rain, 95% sun. Dunlop 8000. They perform flawlessly, and they were cheap: $127 each. They outperform the newer 9000 series in some respects---read the comparison on tirerack.com

Good luck.

mbdriver · July 2001

Last April I upgraded my '00 E320 to 17" wheels. Was about to shell out $320 each for AMG 5-spoke 203s (see www.tirerack.com), but visited my MB dealer first. Fell in love with MB OEM Style E wheels (list $358 each), which are similar to the AMG but have slightly more detail. Found the identical MB OEM wheels at www.discounttiredirect.com for $160 each! Added Yokohama AVS dB 235/45Z17 tires at $144 each. Wow! What a difference in handling, ride, smoothness, etc. The Yoko dB tires are designed for quiet ride, and they work!

The look of the car is sporty, and a surprising plus is the minimum build up of brake dust on the "open" design of the wheels. I put about 6 coats of Zaino Z-2 on them, and they're 10 times easier to keep clean than my OEM 11-hole 16" wheels. All in all, I couldn't be more happy -- and I think I saved a ton of money. The wheels are still available for $160.

drew_ · July 2001

Well guys, it looks like that picture of the next generation E-class was totally legitimate afterall! Have a look at the following link below for the entire story. The new rear end looks very nice, like a combination of the C-class and S-class tail end. The taillamps look familiar, but are yet unique to the E-class, with a slightly more rounded apparence. Same goes for the inside door panel, a combination of the C-class and S-class. From what I can tell from that open door, it looks like (similar to the S-class) there will be air ducts on the B-pillars.

All in all, I'm impressed with the new exterior and I bet that the interior will be just as nice. The smooth slopping front is contemporary and suitable in today's market; the car has a great expression of sporty, but yet classy elegance. I'd even go as far as saying that with the black paint, it looks very sexy!

http://mbspy.bacosys.be/w211.htm

Drew
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alexalee1 · July 2001

Except for the white turn signals, and the license plate holder on the trunk lid, the rear lights look like it can be swapped with the one from the current Acura CL.

I like it though. Maybe I am just a biased MB fan.

One disappointment is the adoption of the third brake light on the trunk lid, ala the C-class and the Ford Focus 4 door.

rexconde1 · July 2001

I kinda agree with the CL comment.

But there it is ... the new Supercharged AMG engine!! Who hoo!, now all they have to do is place it in the ML

boladoj · July 2001

Has anyone upgraded the stereo system? I have a wagon and was interested in what others did for improvement. I have a stock, non-upgraded stereo.

Thanks.

jnee · July 2001

Thanks so much everyone for all your help:) You all are so nice. No dealers will verify about the incentives on 2002s. Just briefly looked at the pictures Drew referred us to. Was it a design change I saw on the 2002s? Also, anyone know if I can go to DMV on my own if I buy the car out of state( don't want to make another trip for the plates and stuff if I buy out of state)?

drew_ · July 2001

Sorry to hear that you couldn't find what you want. But don't give up so easily :-)

No, the pictures that I referred you all to was for the '03 all-new E-class which will be debuting fall of 2002. I can't comment on the incentives since I'm not familiar with the US market. However, as someone mentioned earlier, considering that '02 will be the last year for this current generation of E-class, a good deal very likely can still be had for about the same price.

Good luck,

Drew
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P.S. We have our weekly live MB Tuesday chat tomorrow evening at 6-7pm Pacific. Feel free to drop by. We'd love to have you there! Look for the chat promo in this topic before the chat tomorrow evening.

merc1 · July 2001

I remember long time ago you were toying with the idea of a W124 car, a 500E. What ever happened?

M

john319 · July 2001

The wheels you got are $160 each and not $157 each right? I saw one on their site for $157 as well. how do you like the Yokos. Have you tested them in the rain or snow? Thanks.

jawanda · July 2001

Yes you can do your own registering on out of state purchases. I did this on my previous car, which I bought in NJ, and I live(and registered my car) in NY.
However, on the E320 I just purchased(also in NJ), the dealer refused to let me register on my own, claiming it was not possible. This is patently false, but I got an overall decent deal and let hime make his extra few bucks without too much fuss. They will Fedex plates etc. to me when ready, and you should expect no less, definitely don't make the extra trip unless they pay you for it!
-AJ

mbdriver · July 2001

John - The MB OEM Style E wheels shown on www.discounttiredirect.com are $160 each. I believe they're the only OEM Mercedes wheel they sell, and the other "AMG" wheels are not actually made by Mercedes or AMG, but are replicas.

I have had the wheels and Yokohama AVS dB tires since late April and only have driven with them for about 1500 miles. No problems in the rain -- and we've had more than our share in the Washington, D.C. area. Thankfully, we haven't had snow since Feb. or March, so I can't comment on the handling in winter conditions. But if I had the opportunity to do everything over again, I'd go for the same wheel/tire combination. Hope this helps.

bargamon · July 2001

I love the look of the new c class, and the E does follow in that vein. The rear to me looks alot like the S-type Jaguar.

I am glad they have evolved the style and kept the 2 head light look.

I generally hold my final opinion until I see it person.

Hopefully they can keep the pricing under control. Over 50k for a 6 cyl car may be pressing it. If they can keep it under that while adding the goodies they mentioned, then it will be very attractive. I hope the quality is good and fit and finish is not an issue.

I agree that the last generation s class may be the best thus far. It is way over engineered and thus its complicated, and expensive to fix. I really wanted a CL500, used of course, but found it hard to spend 50k on a used car with about 50k on the odometer. But are the new ones any less expensive to fix??

drew_ · July 2001

Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html

fredtwd · July 2001

Sorry for posting this on the sedans board, but it looks like all the activty is on this baord and I need some information quickly.

2001 Demo E320 4MATIC Wagon:
- Leather
- COMMAND
- Front Ventilated Seats
- E2
- K2a

It has 8,700 miles.

MSRP $61,130.
Negotiated price $51,000.
Boston, MA area.

jnee · July 2001

thanks again for all your info guys. will try again tomorrow but doesn't look good. may have to join another happy proud club:( my MB has to be out there somewhere:)

bdwright · July 2001

I have a 97 E420 and I would like to change the oil. I found the oil pan/drain plug after removing the plastic cover under the car.

I just need some help on getting to the oil filter.... I think that you access it from above, do I need to remove the plastic engine cover and the air filter?

any information would be very helpful.

Brian

habitat1 · July 2001

$51,000 looks pretty good, assuming those are the options and color you really want (i.e. would have ordered). According to my figures, the dealer invoice on the car you are considering is $56,615. A dealer in my area would have discounted a brand new car to $2,000 under invoice last month (incentives from MB) to $54,615. I would look at it as your deal as getting an extra $3,600 +/- off for getting a 8,700 mile demo. However, if those are not exactly the options and/or color you want, you're true savings vs. ordering a new 2002 may not be that much.

My local dealer indicated that the $2,000 dealer incentive for 2001 models will likely return in early fall for 2002 models (since the 2003 redesign will be coming out in the spring of 2002). He actually encouraged me to wait for a 2002, get it equiped exactly as I want it and probably get it for something around $2,000 under invoice (possibly even less).

Personally, I would want to get more than $3,600 off on a $50k+ car to take a "demo". To tempt me, I'd want to save at least 10-15% over what I could get a brand new, precisely equiped 2002 model in the fall for. And, in my case, I would be ordering a less loaded car but consider the "multicontoured seats" as an almost "must have" option. I expect to get a brand new 2002 for something in the range of $50k, so you're deal, albeit for a very well equipped car, wouldn't make a lot of sense for me.

Good luck with whatever way you decide to go.

bargamon · July 2001

Are you trading in another vehicle?? I agree with the above, its ok if you love the car. I would not go full on the options instead would opt for a new one. But it depends on how important some of the options are and if you were going to order. If you are trading in there are other financial considerations. Obviously its all net-net.....Good luck. I think even at that price you'll be very satisfied.

stheodd1 · July 2001

2001 e430
e2 and heated seats
dealer quote 51,190
lease 39 months 15000 my
1556 first payment
799.11 tax included per month for 38 months.
What are your thoughts gang?
Thanks
stheodd1

jnee · July 2001

Thanks for your previous post about 2002 incentives. As everyone knows by now, I'm still having trouble finding a fair deal. Would you agree 2k under invoice is fair(E3204matic) considering we're in the middle of July? By the way, I tried looking for a dealer in DC and couldn't find one. Who is your dealer?

jnee · July 2001

Which NJ dealers did you buy from? The out of state dealer said they would do everything except inspect the car(which I understand is b/c someone would have to drive my car). Wouldn't want someone to drive it anyway. As long as I get a good deal on the car I also wouldn't fuss over any reasonable fees. Thanks for your info.

microrepair · July 2001

I assume that the 97 has the inline 6 cylinder the same as my 96. If so, then on the 96, the oil filter is located on top at the rear of the engine at the firewall. You need to reach down about 6" below the upper part of the engines/hoses and unscrew the top cap of the canister. The paper filter will be attached to the cap via a snap-in feature. Make certain you replace the o-ring on the cap to ensure a good leakfree seal. It should be included with the new filter.

habitat1 · July 2001

I haven't checked with my dealer lately (Herb Gordon Mercedes - Silver Spring, MD), but it looks like the $2k incentive may no longer be in effect. www.carsdirect.com's "target price" is only about $800 under invoice, compared to $2,800 under as of a few weeks ago. Perhaps the $2k incentive was only good through June 30. If that is the case, whcih seems kind of odd, I'm not surprised that the dealer won't give you an under invoice deal if it's coming solely out of his pocket.

In any event, I'm not going to be seriously in the market for at least 4-5 months. My only concern is that when more info starts coming out about the new E, it may be too tempting to get an "old" 2002. I heard something about a 4-litre turbodiesel engine in Europe capable of nearly matching current E430 performance at 30+ mpg. If MB puts that in their Wagon line-up for the states, I will be hard pressed not to go for it.

drew_ · July 2001

Sorry to have to tell you that there will be no new MB diesels in N.America until the sulphur content in the fuel decreases drastically. Since the oil refineries won't be doing this voluntarily anytime soon, you're going to have to wait for the government to step in to make them reduce it. The ML400CDI, E400CDI, S400CDI are all already currently on sale in Europe.

Good luck,

Drew
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jawanda · July 2001

I had to do inspection myself also. For the Mercedes, I bought from Mercedes of Princeton, and they were pretty good about doing everything over the phone and having everything ready, and I paid NY sales tax at purchase. They Fedex plates when they get them, so you only have to go there once to get the car. They also would have delivered the car to me so I wouldn't have had to go there at all, but I'd much rather see and inspect the car before plunking down $50K.

In '99, I bought a VW Passat from Millennium Auto Group in/near Somerville, NJ, and they have a nearby Mercedes dealership as well, and in that case, I did all the DMV stuff myself, including paying sales tax. I bought the car without paying sales tax, and then paid the tax at DMV when I registered it.

habitat1 · July 2001

Thanks for the response. Too bad. There are several 1998/1999 turbodiesels in my neighborhood and everyone seems to love them. Was at a cookout recently and had to listen to one neighbor boast about 35+mpg on a recent trip to Hilton Head. We'll be lucky to get 16 mpg out of our Isuzu Trooper for the same trip in a few weeks.

Does this issue only apply to certain diesels (i.e. Mercedes Benz)? Aren't there other manufacturers still importing diesels (VW and/or others)?

Thanks for your feedback.

bdwright · July 2001

Microrepair,

I took a look, however I have an 8 cylinder and the oil filter is not at the back by the fireball.

From below it looks like the oil filter is on the left side of the engine(looking from the front of the car). It also looks like you have to take off the plastic engine cover and the air filter to get access to it.

Is this right? Do I need any special tools to get to the oil filter?

Thanks for all of your help!

Brian

jures · July 2001

the 2k incentive is still in effect, try euro motorcar in bethesda, md,

drew_ · July 2001

I think you may find this helpful. There's no need to remove the drain plug. Even your dealership uses a (powered) Topsider pump to suck out all of the old oil through the dipstick tube. A lot less messy for sure!

http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_oil_change.htm

Drew
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kenyee · July 2001

If you look carefully at what VW brings over vs. what they have over in Europe, you'll notice that they only import the older generation diesel engines. The newer, high efficiency ones (common rail mode) can't be brought over. It's probably deliberate by our local politicians so that our car makers can be protected since no American car maker makes a good diesel...or the politicians could just be clueless :-)

mbnut1 · July 2001

Nice to hear from you. You have a good memory. 500E's are rather scarce around here but I did get a chance to drive one. It is truly one of the greatest cars ever made. That particular car had 140K on it and it still ran like new. The car feels like you should be driving it at a least 100. At legal speeds it feels like you are sitting still. Which leads to the dilemma as to how sensible it would be to buy something with such capabilities that you couldn't begin to exploit, given today's traffic and all the sheriffs of Nottingham running around.

jason64 · July 2001

Hi all you brake experts, I posted the following brake noise problem I have on my 01 E320 a while back but did not receive any sound advice. My front brakes have been making this noise since day 1 and now at 6k miles it is still the same. The front brakes tend to make a "eh" noise at the last moment of braking, AND, when I first release the brakes from a stop. This only happens for the first few brakings, and disappears after the brakes are warmed up. The dealer mechanics said that's the way they are, even if they replaced the pads, there's no guarantee that it won't happen again on the next set of pads. This sure bothers the hell out of me 'cause I don't think a $50k car should have this problem. Am I the only one who is sensitive about this noise and having this problem, or is everybody tolerating it? Thanks for your reply in advance.

kwmb · July 2001

Hello Everyone, would like some advice on buying a E320 2001.
Will the car depreciate greatly after the new model goes into production?

What price range should I be looking for in an "01 with an E2 package?
Thanks

rowlandj · July 2001

In addition to the FSS items there are several other items that are listed in the maintenance manual. Items like the replacement of the brake fluid and other items not specifically mentioned in the FSS services. Since the first 4 years are free when are these items done and do you have to ask for them to be done.

I don't have enough miles yet to really ask for these items, but maybe some of the folks that have their cars a bit longer can comment.

Thanks to all for a very interesting forum.

JR

eadlu · July 2001

My dealer told me last week that the brake flush and change of the dust filter is done only in connection with the I service notwithstanding the statement in the service manual requiring that they be performed every two years. Supposedly the service manual was amended by a technical bulletin but I was not shown the bulletin.

tendons · July 2001

I had a 93 500E and sold it after 110000 miles and it was still wonderful,sold to a friend a year ago who is still in love with it. The car just felt so solid at all speeds, more so than my current E55, although not as quick or fast.E55 is quite nice, though.

drdan976 · July 2001

My search so far has come up empty handed. There are a couple options out there, but I want the cleanest look. Im not much of a fan of the popout screen. Ideas???

Dan Wang
98 E320 w/o COMAND

PS: I just wanted to be the 2000th post

varig · July 2001

I test drove an E320 4Matic and noticed a "thump" at the last moment of braking (only when decelerating from > 30mph. If braking from a slow speed, no thump. Noticed it at several points in the test drive. Car had virtually no miles, so I did not know if it was just because it had not been driven much... Agree that for a $50K+ car you should expect zero problems.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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