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Comments
I will be making an appointment to get this looked after. I have 27k miles now and am running out of time for warranty fixes. No time like the present.
Someone mentioned to calm down because this was only a car... Well yeah it's only a car, but it's only a car I paid almost $25k for and pardon me if I'm a little worried about it. BTW, Myself and at least 6 neighbors have filed a class action suit against the Insurance Co. of our homebuilder for serious defects (leaky sills, cracked foundations, poor electrical wiring etc.)things that the builder will tell you are things that are supposed to happen with a house. Remember the statement by GM about the car "it's just the way it's built"? Well it's not supposed to be that way as Charts2 stated, with a house or a car! The repairs to my house alone could reach $30k alone. It's considered a breach of contract to build something so badly. They have the same thing for cars too, and it's called the Lemon Law. We are fortunate to have both consumer protection laws.
Sorry for my short rant...
The info on your profile reads " CA JPN ". What does that mean?
If you are in Japan - what does an Impala sell for there?
Am I going to trade or sell? When you had your problem, you didn't, why would I do that, thats the easy way out for people who won't stand up for their rights to fight and have a product perform the way it was intended. You know if everyone walked away from their problems nothing would ever get fixed....I rememeber reading some of your angry posts in the past year about this issue when you spent a lot of time on this with GM. You took pictures of the cradle you spoke to GM reps you werent' exactly a happy camper!!
"Why live engulphed in anxiety about this" I have posted maybe 7 or 8 posts on this issue. You have probably posted 200+ times on (cradle--ISS) issues in the past year or so. Its obvious they are in the back of your mind, and again I am glad your car is running fine and so is mine but many others aren't and I am sypathetic to them.
Today post #6651 you defend the car.
November 30/01 post #6609 you say "What a problem if it has no fix and the manufacturer (Chevrolet) doesn't even know how to fix it. "thats enough to sue under Lemon Law" "SOUNDS LIKE FIGHTN' WORDS TO ME!!
Its obvious you still have concerns...
Bottom line is GM knows they have a major problem. How do they know that? Because some individuals like yourself stood on the soap box and told them so. You came forward like a few others. If we don't voice our concerns (even in this forum) and no one ever complained we would all still have the 2000 cradles. GM would think no problem here!!. FIX THE DAMN THING RIGHT AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON TO HAPPY MOTORING IN OUR IMPALAS. If I get this problem and GM still doesn't have a fix!!
BY.......BY.........CHEVROLET!!
PS: TEO; NONE OF THESE COMMENTS WERE INTENDED TO BE SARCASTIC.
John
The other 2 cars I had been considering were the Intrigue and the Alero. But then I read about the Intrigue having an unfixable problem.
Not sure where to look now, thought possibly a grand prix. Want to take advantage of the 0% financing before it ends, but not at the expense of lots of problems on a new car.
Any advice would be appreciated.
in 10/01. I ordered the car.
The car is 14 months old and has 24,000 miles.
I do 500 miles a week of mostly highway driving.
So far all I've had done is change the oil, rotate
the tires and change the fuel and air filters.
No mechanical problems so far, no electrical problems, no clunks or pops.
Everything works fine including Onstar and its
personal calling. Am I a little paranoid waiting
for ISS and/or cradle problems to show-up ?
Sure. It could happen any time.
But so far the car has been great. I love to drive
it. Love the power,love how it handles and love
the steering wheel radio controls.
Right now I'm looking to get a 2nd one, this time an LS. I'm keeping the one I have.
I bought an extended warranty - my first ever -not just for the ISS and cradle but because I keep cars a while and cars are just too complicated today and too expensive to repair.
Right now it's the best car I've owned in years.
Also on the same web sight try Impala 9c3 that designates plain door Police Impalas. 9c1 is the regular patrol Impalas that feature lights and markings. I think you will find pictures and other links to what you are looking for.
John
Wonderful engine though. Resale is atrocious. Trade in values for '99 GX's are on the 7-8K range. That is pretty sobering.
I had my intrigue for 26 months and enjoyed driving it, but it was in the shop alot.
I have had my impala for 6 months and put 10,000 miles on it and it has never been in the shop once for unscheduled repairs. I have had 5 new Chevy's and it is the first new car that has not gone back for one thing or the other.
Buy the Impala.
Also, how many used ls impalas have you seen on the dealers lots? Very few I would imagine. How many used intrigues have you seen?
It would seem like every car dealer in America has at least one.
BTW, I strongly recommend rotating the tires exactly in the pattern that the manual suggests. I actually mark them with a white crayon "to FL" "to RR" etc just so I can look afterward and confirm that it's been done properly. Mechanics I trust tell me it's particularly important with front wheel drive cars. Only twice have I not rotated by the book. As an immediate result, both rotations caused a subtle vibration in the steering wheel at high speed (about 60mph) that required rebalancing to correct. One time was years ago on my Oldsmobile. The other was with the Impala. I won't repeat the mistake.
My Impala LS - built in January 2000 - seems to be riding quieter and a little smoother with time. Has anyone else noticed that? Still the original Eagle GA tires and 23,000 miles plus.
Even if the extended warranty is not used before it expires, it can add to the resale value of the vehicle as it is transferable to a second owner upon selling the car.
To me extended warranties have too many pluses and I quite frankly don't understand why so many people resist them thinking that their new "X" car will never need repairs.
Today I drove 80 miles on my LS and had a blast!
Charts, if you can't enjoy the car, sell it, have GM take it back, drive it down your nearest and tallest cliff...whatever makes you feel better...but remember your car seems to be running just fine and yet by means of your crystal ball you are predicting emminent failure of the ISS and the Cradle...gimme a big freakin' break dude!
What is the point of having a new $20K auto and not been able to enjoy it because someone else already had a problem? I suggest that you go over the NHTSA.ORG website and spend sometime there reading the recall database and problems and complaints. Direct your attention to the new BMW X5 Suv, a $40K to $50K vehicle....they catch fire!! But guess what only 2 or 3 have catch fire when their owners turn their engines off and begin to detect a "burnt" smell coming out of the engine bay and then BOOM, Barbeque time! So that means all BMW X5 owners should ever experience and engine fire or ditch their vehicles in massive numbers? Don't think so. Remember that behind the emotion and the extremes often found in these boards there are technical explanations for everyhting that takes place and as far as this so claimed "Second wave" of engine cradle problems I have not seen once valid and down to earth technical explanation as to the why, when and when...just too much hot air filling the environment here.
Go ahead and try make GM buyback your car that historically doesn't have any record of problems with the ISS or cradle...good luck to ya!
Welcome to the club.
Mine was built in 11/00. I wish it was a perfect one. I think a new ISS will make it mighty close. I have the shim kit on my cradle but I don't think I needed it. I hope it isn't messing anything up. I'm sure it's not affecting the ISS though. I just need a new one of those...
Thanks for asking and happy holidays!
Who knows where they'll be at with a car 3 years down the road? If, when the car is at 35K miles or 35 months, it looks like it'll be a keeper, a warranty can be purchased at that time, usually cheaper than from the dealer during the original sale.
Never wait until after the factory warranty expires, though. The price jumps drastically after that.
But for me, since they normally cost under $1000 when purchased before the end of the factory warranty, it pays to wait until the factory warranty has almost expired.
As I SAID at least twice now....I like my car too. No I am not going to run my Impala off a big cliff (as you seem to see me doing in YOUR crystal ball) that would wreck the cradle and ISS for sure!!
Never suggested that GM buy back my car, as you said. Its running like a top....(why do you make all this stuff up?)
Remember Teo, it was 00Impala who brought this latest issue to the forum, not me... I understand his concerns. I hope you have concerns for him like everyone did for you when you had YOUR problems. I still see your cradle pictures plastered all over the internet indicating the major problems that you had with the early one on your 2000 Impala. REMEMBER YOUR WORDS FROM YOUR LAST POST. "CARS ARE STILL MAN MADE DEVICES PRONE TO BREAK UP OR PARTS FAILURE" You didn't put that on the Internet with your cradle pictures or tell GM when they bought your car back. Those words are a total contradiction.
I read all the sights like you do. I don't care about a BMW, Rolls Royce, Hugo, Geo Metro, or even the Space Shuttle. I care about my IMPALA and the concerns that others have about there IMPALAS. Hopefully this is the end of this cradle issue. If it is; HAPPY MOTORING FOR ME!! (WITH NO EXTENDED WARRANTY OH NO!!!!!)
PS: Teo: GO TO www.google.com or yahoo and punch in 2004 Impala go to VINCES CARS and see the next generation IMPALA, MONTE CARLO AND CAVALIER. He calls it the 2004 Impala but I believe it will probably be 2005. Strong side resemblance to the newer Grand Prix coming out. Has the bow tie on the trunk not the Impala symbol (at this point)
CHECK IT OUT!!!
My daughter recently bought a 1999 Saturn from a Saturn dealer with 29000 miles. The 3 year warranty is up in a few months and she was able to buy an extended GM warranty that covers her another 3 years and 36000 miles for $500.00. Thats a lot cheaper then the $1200 (extended warranty) they wanted on a 2002 Saturn. If she had bought the 2002, She would have had to borrow that additional money for the extended warranty and in the end probably paid $1800 (interest principal) when the loan was paid off.
ITS A PERSONAL CHOICE!! BUT GOOD TO HAVE THAT CHOICE.
Wise decision to wait.
Anyway, my opinion on the warranty is that it covers you (at least the one I looked at at the dealer for the Impala) for that window between when the factory warranty ends and when the big trouble has a bigger chance to begin at the higher miles. Furthermore, you'd have to run into approx. $1,500 of trouble just to break even. I know that can happen fast and then much more with a tranny or another large failure, but I'm willing to risk the few biggies. Assuming a tranny would be 3k and the warranty I did not buy is 1.5k I'd really be out about 1.5k compared to the guy that bought the warranty. Because this would not be a life changing expense, I'll take this risk and keep my 1.5k in my pocket for now. They don't sell these things to break even.
Oh, I'm just throwing hypothetical $$ around. I hope I don't get taken to task on them. The warranty is just not for me, but I can see why other would like it. It really is a personal thing.
I have a 2000 LS that has had most of the common problems recorded on this board. Build date is 11/18/99. Purchase date is 1/1/00
Here is a rundown.
ENGINE SHUTDOWNS
This was an intermittent problem that occurred at idle a few times a month for the first 15000 miles. It has cleared by itself or possibly by updated PCM software.
ENGINE CRADLE
Clicks started after about 9000 miles. Cradle replaced with a 2001 "stress tested" cradle at about 19000. (was waiting for GM solution)
Now, 3000 miles later, no clicks.
ISS
Clunks (felt) started after 14000 miles. When cradle was replaced, clunks disappeared.
ENGINE HESITATIONS ("chuggle")
Intermittent chuggles after start-ups started at about 12000 miles. PCM replaced and additional grounding harness added at 19000 miles. Did not fix problem. New PCM software installed at 20000 miles. Problem solved.
In addition: Steering wheel replaced (faulty radio switch), wheel liners added to rear wheels, passenger window switch replaced, SVS light appears intermittently - no codes (unresolved), and passenger upper door panel replaced.
As to the cradle problem, there seems to be a number of varied opinions. My service manager - who I consider very knowledgeable, honest and straight forward - says that he is in constant contact with GM and the clicks WILL come back and they DO occur on some 2001's. He says GM has not yet solved the problem and is authorizing no fixes for now.
The ISS problem: Recently, the ISS started to show slight clunks again. The service manager told me that replacing the ISS was not a final solution since the parts were the same. Evidently, this is not a "bad batch" , but rather, a design problem. Since then I have read here that there is a new ISS part number and also a fix where grease is injected into the joint, possibly with an installed grease fitting. I am not clear on whether these are optional fixes.
The above problems are probably too many, even for a new model car, but I was prepared for first year problems when I purchased the car. I like the Impala very much. So far, I have been willing to put up with having to deal with these defects. I still feel the car is the best buy out there. Ultimately, how well it holds up in coming years will tell if it really is a good buy.
The impala has the same greenhouse as the intrepid and the same taillights as the Century.
In the last few years Ford, Chrysler and GM have bought up many Eurpean car companies. (Ford Jaguar) (GM-Saab iszuzu, Opel, Daewoo etc)
I believe Ford was the first American built car with their current Focus that combines American/European technology and styling cues.
I think in the next few years most American cars built will have world wide components of technology, style and better reliability, that will be needed to survive.
Now that GM has hired Bob Lutz (overseeing future products designs) and the guy that designed the PT cruiser we might see better looking GM concept cars coming. I am not impressed with the current batch that have been widely publicized.
www.carconnection.com is probably the best web sight to see the next generation of cars that we will be driving in the next few years. Probably next year sometime we will see "SPY PHOTOS" of the real future Impala. (get rid of those Buick back lights!!!)
Ok, this is fine and dandy but I have a problem with some of these "general" statements. If your SD has been in contact with GM Tech assistance, then those guys up in Detroit must have a technical explanation to their claims that the clicks will come back. How they will come back? By magic? By coincedence? By supporting bracket stress/failure? Those are the kind of answers that most of us are looking for. The main issue with the 2000 frames was that the back supporting brackets (2 of them) were not properly welded all the way around the contacting mounts to the frame itself. The original mounts only had welding on the bottom of the brackets so under stress (Turning the wheels, etc), these brackets would move freely on top of the frame generating the clicks and clunks that we all know about. A lot of people continued to have problems for two reasons:
1) Cradles were not re-welded properly often making the problem worse. Aluminum is very difficult to weld properly and it requires special skill and welding equipment. The great majority of dealers are not prepared to handle this type of welding jobs, hence they have to subcontract race car shops to deal with these. properly welded frames did not give any problems afterwards but these success cases were few and far in between.
2)The original cradle was kept being replaced with the same defective under-welded frame thus having the problem time and time again.
So what's the source of the problem this time around??? Is it the the supporting brackets flexing on their mounts? Or is it the whole frame resonating because of stress/flexing somewhere else in the suspension/front end? Is there a more serious structural problem that doesn't necessarily involve the cradle per se anymore, but the cradle becomes the first symptom of such issue?
See, those are the kind of answers that I want to get from these "Service Directors" or the Technicians up in Detroit. So far and with all due respect to all, these claims are just pure speculation at this time. Now keep in mind that the problem might not be inevitable or might happen on the 2001+ cars, but it doesn't mean that ALL will fail because so far I haven't seen anything that supports that theory, nothing, nada, zero.
I need clear cut evidence showing that:
1) the new cradles will fail at some point in time
2) the newly detected problem areas in these frames
3)Why the clicks will come back?
can anyone provide links of copies to such technical documentation? can anyone corroborate this by posting a copy of these documents stating these problems and the frequency/mileage/model year of the vehicles that exhibit these problems?
My Service Director has very easy access to all these and he doesn't have any supporting documentation that proves otherwise.
So until someone from here or even GM steps forward with these information, I am afraid that everything discussed here to this point is just unsupported speculation. One 2001 car that has "Cradle problems" is not enough proof. Again it can happen, but I need more technical backing and hardcore evidence of problem continuity.
Ford has also owned Jaguar for over 10 years, and a big piece of Mazda for probably the same, if not longer. In addition, they have always been a huge international car company, outselling GM internationally.
So, global auto manufacturing is not new to them. Yet, they have always somehow managed to avoid bringing that sort of quality, efficiency, and ergonomic design to their US products.
An even bigger irony is that it took Ford, where quality is like job 7, to elevate Jaguar's quality to incredible new heights! Who woulda thunk it?
However, I too would REALLY like to see some contact names, phone numbers etc. to get this issue into a format where someone from Chevy/GM will go on the record.
Hey 00Impala and Hank..how about some contact info???
However, it sounds to me like the ISS issue is a very real problem that has not gone away, and is a very real concern for owners of all current generation Impalas, not just 2000's. Actually, it sounds like a GM-wide problem for every one of the models that uses that particular ISS.
But beyond that, what bothers me is the inconsistency in the information surrounding the cradle controversy.
However, I would imagine they'll surface by the summer, when the heat of the sun and the cold of the AC brings the return of the snapping dashboard. Combined with the click of the cradle and the clunk of the ISS, it should be quite a little symphony. All that's missing is the sloshing of the fuel tank.
Snap, cradle, clunk...Rice Krispies!
I thought there was a brand new ISS..saw a part number not long ago. However, since it is so new, it's unknown whether it will be a real fix or another temporary one as might be the case with the cradle. The grease fitting seems to be one of 2 choices the dealers are picking from: install new part or put grease fitting on old part.
I never got a clear answer on which was the "authorized" approach to the ISS problem.
Unless you share the "Crystal Ball" and think that your car is going to crap out next year...oh well. I rather give this car the opportunity to see how it unfolds in the next year or so. In the mean time it is tight, noise free and a pleasure to drive...why spoil it? If it ain't broken yet, don;t fix it
I'm not upset or worried right now. California has very consumer-friendly lemon laws.
I do believe in the near future when most of these large companies put their heads together, you will be buying world cars/trucks. Huge savings for example to have the Impala sold World wide, or most other US makes.
I know when Chrysler and Mercedes melded they have had some serious growning pains but I believe in the end better built cars/trucks for all!!!!
The irony of it all is that I have never had the need to call an attorney or even invoke BBB arbitration or Lemon Law when I had GM buyback the 2000LS...it was a 3 month process which was painless but thanks to the involvement of my Service Director and dealer which hadn't even sold me the car originally in the first place. It just goes to show that if you take care of your customers, they will come for more.
I think it is up to everyone to decide whether they want to keep their cars or not.
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/impala/
GM also has a controlling interest/partnership with Suzuki. the Ingersoll, Ontario Canada is a GM/Suzuki venture.
By the same token, GM has a manufacturing/engineering partnership with Toyota Motor Co. The NUMMI Freemont California plant is a GM/Toyota venture. They produce there the Toyota Corolla, Chevy Prizm, Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Tacoma small pick up trucks.
Adam Opel AG has been GM's European outlet since the 1930's. GM also owns Holden of Australia (Which is believed to be the best and most successful GM division, they have killer cars). Also GM owns Saab/Scania car/truck divisions. In the United Kingdom, Opel cars and trucks are sold under the Vauxhall division.
In Europe, GM also has a controlling interest/partnership with the Fiat Group Spa, and also owns Alfa Romeo which will be coming back to our shores in 2005. The next generation Alfa Romeos (Sweeet cars by the way) will be sold at first thru selected Cadillac dealerships. The Fiat group also owns Lancia, Ferrari and Maserati which also is making a comeback to the US next year.
GM also owns AM General makers of the famous Hummer Suv for military and civilian applications.
The "World" US GM divisions are Cadillac and Chevrolet. Pontiac is sold in Mexico but Buick and Olds are strictly sold in North America.
GM's non-automotive business units include:
* Electro-Motive (yes GM makes train diesel and electric Locomotives)
* Hughes Electronics (DirectTV and DirectPC both of which I believed have already been sold to its main market rival, EchoStar)
*OnStar (Lexus, Acura and Audi are now offering OnStar on some of their new models)
* GMAC financial and insurance services
* AC Delco
* The GM Mastercard
Delphi was another GM subsidiary until 1998. Delphi Automotive systems is now an independent company that manufactures vehicle parts for many automakers including GM. The ISS was manufactured by Delphi-Saginaw steering systems. the Impala ABS/Traction control system is also made by Delphi.
It seems odd that GM uses Suzuki to produce the Tracker, and Toyota the Prizm. Why not use it's own subsidiaries?
No quite true Charts. The Daimler Benz take over in 1998 (Not a merger of equals as previously taught) has been one of the most disastrous business relationships in recent memory. There is a struggle within the Sttugart and Auburn Hills headquarters in terms of work and business ethics. German and American ways of working are like Water and Oil...they simply don't mix with each other. Also Germans tend to be arrogant and demanding bosses...they look down on Americans as we look down on Mexicans...
Financially, Chrysler is on the red and the quality of their vehicles is a bit better than Ford but still sharing space at the bottom of the barrel. The expected parts sharing between Chrysler and the Mercedes parts bin hasn't taken place as of yet. You can still purchase a Dodge minivan with the same 3.0L V6 and the infamous prone to failure A604 4-speed automatic transmission. None of the current crop of LH sedans share not even a screw with their Mercedes counterparts. Mercedes has been having quality problems of its own as of late. The Mercedes C-class has been receiving heavy criticism for its cheap interior materials (Mind you the car costs between $30K and $50K new) some fit and finish issues as well as some mechanical issues that are very "UnMercedes like".
In sort this American-Germanic marriage has gone soured even before the HoneyMoon got started.
Just wondering, what with all those "German-engineered" VW's being made in Mexico.
I was just wondering if anyone here with a 2001 LS is having any problems with excessive play in the seat adjuster, you know the seat tracks. Mine seem to have gotten worse in the past few months. The service rep's telling me all Impalas do that. Is this true or am I the only sensitive guy here. Also wondering if there's a Tech Svce Bulletin on this... Thanks.
Kono
Why not? The "Invented here, made here" mentallity is what got the US industry into trouble the first place. Specially when it comes to produce world class, low profit margin small cars and trucks. America lost that battle over 20 years ago...the Big 3 are not interested anymore in producing a homegrown Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla clone. The Ford Focus was developed in Germany under Ford's European arm. the car is a reliability nightmare (7 recalls and counting and we complain about the Impala so much)but it has been a success due to its Euro qualities of handling, design and looks. Anything Euro is hot in America.
Future GM small and midsize cars will be strictly built or outsourced from Opel, Toyota, Subaru and Suzuki.
This helps reduce considerable R&D costs often associated with these vehicles. Instead, that money can be used to make better homegrown vehicles such as the Larger sedans, coupes and trucks.
GM's interest in Subaru is to get all their AWD technology. The first "Fruit" of this relationship has just been released. The Opel Zafira 7-passenger wagon will also be built in Japan using Subaru's AWD system.
I also forgot to mention that GM will be buying Honda V6 engines in exchange for GM's V8 powerplants for future Honda Truck and SUV products. The Honda V6 engines will be available on upcoming Saturn products.
GM also produces automatic transmissions for BMW 3, 5 and 7 Series, Z3 and Z8 roadsters, Bentley, RollsRoyce, Isuzu, etc.
In sort, the globalization currents and trends are blurring the old lines between Domestic and Imported vehicles...in less than 10 years there will be no more "American", "European" or "Japanese" cars, rather global cars made in the most remote and unthinkable places on earth.
Some people on this forum have had their's repaired. GM changed the seat track design midway through the 2001 model year, so something is up.
I'm quite tired of hearing the dealer tell me that same line of poop..."They're all like that." They ain't all like that!!! It's really just a variation of "That's the way they're made."
I believe that the seat track TSB affects only vehicles manufactured before 3/01 and the VIN number break point is somewhere along the lines of 298,xxx. Cars built as of 4/2001 on, have the corrected and revised non-adjustable seat tracks. This is the reason why my 2001 LS built on 4/01 doesn't have a seat track problem. The TSB states that the dealer will replace the old and defective "Adjustable" seat track for the new "Non-Adjustable" seat track revision.
Actually, the TSB doesn't mention any seat track problem at all, or any recommendations for fixing any specific seat track problems.
It merely states that the seat track cannot be repaired on cars after the VIN break point. Those cars must have the track replaced due to the new design.
My question is why the new design, unless there was a problem with the old one?