Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ficuss · August 2004

Thanks for the offer of the G35 link. I have all the G35 info I need. Yes, they have a few issues too. Because the G35 has the second best braking system and stopping distance, second only to Ferrari, the brakes wear quickly. Infiniti admitted it and is replacing brake pads for free. Please don't think that my posts are whining, they are honest comments about a troublesome vehicle. Unlike many others here, I paid full price for my triplet. I recieved no GM employee discount, no GM affiliate discount and no other incentives to buy. My opinions are not tainted with anger or envy, or biased because of my empolyment with a supplier to GM, I am not. I am dissapointed that GM could not pull off using advanced technology, which I happen to appreciate. I am in my mid 50's and have owned many new cars. This is the first that has had soooooo many minor and not so minor problems. If you have read any of my comments regarding this car, you would have noticed that they are aimed at GM engineering, not manufacturing or assembly. The fit and finish of these cars is fine. It has always been the engineering that has come up short. I hope someone at GM does read these posts, perhaps they can learn something from them.

ross1962 · August 2004

I second tblazed response and will add that I have not encountered this kind of thing at and Chevy dealer before. Usually I'll see this at some rip-off shop like a tire dealer that comes at me with a laundry list of things my car "needs", but doesn't really, (like CV joint service on a rear wheel drive car)

I'd find a new dealer - this one is crooked.

hardhawk · August 2004

I have to agree with ficuss. I have been on this board since April of 2001 and I too bought my Envoy in the summer of 2001 before the terror attacks brought on all the incentives. I love my Envoy but must state that it has been the most problematic new vehicle I have ever owned since I started buying new vehicles in 1976. It is the first vehicle I have ever felt the need to purchase an extended warranty for and the last vehicle I will ever buy so early in its first production year. Especially in the electronics area, the engineering has been lacking. I plan to keep my Envoy at least 3 more years and that is why I bought the extended warranty. I could not afford to have to pay for all the things that have to be fixed and refixed on the Envoy all the time. All of my issues have been minor, but a $38,000 vehicle shoud not have these issues in my book. My wife's 1997 Chrysler van has had only one warranty repair (a faulty transmission control module) in almost 8 years with nothing but routine scheduled maintenance otherwise. I repeat that I love the Envoy, but I would love it a lot more if it were remotely as trouble free as the van. I keep it because the things I like about it outweigh the problems I have had. Overall, however, it has been a far from "professional grade" experience! It has had more problems in 3 years than the last 3 Chrysler products I have owned for a combined 22 years of ownership.

mookie14 · August 2004

Hey everyone, I have several questions:
1. Does anyone who owns an '03 tblazer plan to pay it off and keep it past 5 yrs?
2. Thoughts on the throttle body spacer ... is it good for the tblazer?
3. What type of service should I get at 36000 miles? My last maintenance was at 29/30000, so I'm wondering if I can save some $$$$ instead of going to the dealer.

jvaups · August 2004

New to the board and have found it really helpful to date. I have a 2004 TB EXT with the V-8. I get a vibration of sorts in the gas pedal between about 65-75 mph. The sensation in the gas pedal when this occurs is hard to describe. It seems to occur when you get it up to this speed and maintain the speed. I have read a number of posts on the rear drive shaft, but am just guessing that the majority of these occurred on the V-6. Has any body had this problem with the V-8 and if so, was it also a rear drive shaft problem or something else?

I have asked the dealership about it once, but they said they could not find anything. However, I don't think they test drove the vehicle the way I had recommended.

Thanks for your help.

01_hoe · August 2004

I have read on other forums that the throttle body spacer is a waste of money for the 4.2L I-6 engine.

Regarding service, several have purchased an extended warranty on the TB's and Envoys.

ann1 · August 2004

Mr. Ficuss, I don't think you're whining at all. I totally agree with you. You expected more for your money just like anyone else would. When they say professional grade on this vehicle, I have to laugh. I have wind noise, brake noise, rear gasket problems around the license plate which will be a continuous thing, the brakes make a grinding noise when you hit something bumpy while pressing it, and all this is suppose to be normal according to the dealer. Now I have to bring it in for a water leak underneath my carpet on the front drivers side. It was purchased in February 2004. The only good thing I can say about this vehicle is that it's the best looking suv on the market and I like the ride. The wind noise and the brake noise outweighs anything good about this vehicle and I can't wait to get rid of it.

scottc454 · August 2004

...the brakes make a grinding noise when you hit something bumpy while pressing it, and all this is suppose to be normal according to the dealer.

That grinding noise is your antilock brakes kicking in. The same thing would happen in my Subaru when hitting a big enough bump while braking hard, so it does appear to be common ABS behavior.

ccarbaugh · August 2004

CAn anyone address these 2 issues i have with my 02 Envoy. The wandering mirrors and now all of a sudden 2 times over two weeks when I start the truck up the Bose radio has no sound. If you turn off and on again then it will come back. It looks as if everything is working but no sound. Now I did have the software updated to "so called" fix the mirror problems but those are still a problem. Seems that is when the radio started having problems too. Never recall the correct driver memory. Anyone have ANY ideas what will fix these issues?? Any info would be GREATLY appreciated. I can also be emailed at ccarbaug@yahoo.com. Thanks.

hardhawk · August 2004

Turn off the seat memory recall function on your DIC. That will stop the wandering mirrors. You also lose that feature, but it beats fighting the wandering mirrors. Mine have been fixed a number of times, with both programming and acutator replacements. The driver's side has started again. I turned off the feature until I can get it to the dealer again. No clue on the BOSE problem, sorry!

ccarbaugh · August 2004

I will try it then. So your have been fixed numerous times ?? Can't they figure out what is wrong with it ? that is BS for what you pay for these rigs. Mine is out of warranty and the actuator replacement is going to be about $225. If that don't fix it permenantly then I won't do it. The radio started after they did the software update, also my external temp gauge is acting up. ARRGH ! Thanks for your comments.

mookie14 · August 2004

01_hoe what service did you have or should i have on my tblazer or your envoy at 30000 miles. And what did or what should i have done at 37000 on my tblazer thanks.

hardhawk · August 2004

My mirrors have been in about 4-5 times. I can't remember. I got the extended warranty to cover this type of thing. Only 4 trips in for the mirrors and it will pay for itself! Not to mention what else might come up in the next 3 years or 36000 miles. At least I limited my repair costs to $1,000.

01_hoe · August 2004

Haven't reached 30K miles yet on my Envoy, only have 15K on it now. Look in owners manual and it will guide you as to what to have done at 30K and 36K. Dealers will often try to sell you more maintentece than you really need, so just look at the owners manual for guidance.

ccarbaugh · August 2004

Hardhawk, that is ridiculous to have to have it fixed that many times! It should become a recall to fix this problem. Do think it will every become a recall? I don't think we should have to buy extended warranties when the problems come straight from the design house. They need to address the issue. wonder if they have the problems on the 03 - 04 models. What makes the mirrors get out of whack again everytime ?? I just dont' get it. I did take off the seat recall, that just takes the whole seat/mirror feature off. I guess that is better than dinkin with them everytime. It sucks when you pay that kind of money for a vehicle and things like this don't work. I am a software engineer and if I would make screw ups like this I would be out of a job!! ;-)

tblazed · August 2004

"The arbitrator agreed with GM that the outside air temp sensor is not related to the A/C and is just a convenience (luxury)."

Wonder if they read the service manual. Reading through it, looks to me like the underhood ambient temp sensor is an integral part of the HVAC system, not just a convenience item.

From the service manual:

"Air Temperature Sensors
The air temperature sensors are a 2 wire negative temperature co-efficient thermistor. The vehicle uses the following air temperature sensors:

•Ambient Air Temperature Sensor
Inside Air Temperature Sensor Assembly
Upper Left Air Temperature Sensor
Upper Right Air Temperature Sensor
Lower Left Air Temperature Sensor
Lower Right Air Temperature Sensor

The ambient air temperature sensor mounts underhood and can be affected by city traffic, by idling, and by restarting a hot engine. Therefore, the HVAC control module filters the value of the ambient air temperature sensor for temperature display.

If the HVAC control module detects a malfunctioning sensor, then the control module software will use a defaulted air temperature value. The default value for the ambient and inside air temperature sensors will be displayed on the scantool.

The HVAC control module performs the following functions to maintain the desired air temperature:

Monitor the following sensors:
Inside air temperature sensor
•Ambient Air Temperature Sensor
Lower Left Air Temperature Sensor
Lower Right Air Temperature Sensor
Upper Left Air Temperature Sensor
Upper Right Air Temperature Sensor
Regulate blower motor speed
Position the air temperature actuator
Position the mode actuator
Position the recirculation actuator
Request A/C operation "

01_hoe · August 2004

poster quickdtoo has 275x60/17's.

hardhawk · August 2004

I totally agree! If I didn't love the Envoy so much in spite of the problems it would be gone by now. I vowed never to buy another 1st year model again, but I am just about to break my rule and buy a new Chrysler 300C Hemi to replace my wife's van. Then she can have the Envoy and I get the Hemi!!!! How's that for a plan?

ross1962 · August 2004

Don't ever put snow chains on them!

cameokid · August 2004

I had the tach noise and thought the dealer would replace the entire instrument panel. They fixed and said it was just one small part.

I also have this problem and they told me it was a 'normal characteristic of the car' (even though it took a year before the sound appeared). I would like to tell my service dept how to fix it (like I had to tell them how to fix the drive shaft) - can you tell me what part was replaced to eliminate the tach noise? Thanks, amigo!

mfahy · August 2004

Owner 2003 GMC Envoy XL SLT (V8)
MSRP: 43,000
Paid: 30,500

Purchased: 01/29/04 they were motivated to move this one, its the brownish color, not that pretty, but it was preety loaded so i bought it. It had 85 miles on the OD. i felt like a genius with this deal. But dont we all!

Anyway: Had the driver seat motor, AC switch and the License Plate seal replaced. Also those of you with V8's check the water pump. Mine was leaking but its hard to notice as it burns off. Look at the metal pipe coming out of the water pump and check for the crust of buildup orange on it. If you have that get the water pump replaced.

As for my satifaction: I am satisfied, it more than meets my needs. too many to go into, leave it to size, people capacity, comfort, load, and the pull of the boat, trailer, the inlaws freaking airstream. I tows beautifully....minor problems but all around a solid muti-purpose, expandable, flexible vehicle.

gmfan · August 2004

Got in my 02 TB at my office in hurry to make a sales appointment this morning, went to crank, and nothing. Absolutely nothing. Popped open the hood to look over battery and there is a puddle of acid in the battery tray and acid leaking down frame! Got a co-worker to jump start me and drove to dealership. That was scary. Volt meter moving around, wipers coming on-off by themselves, radio on/off by itself, rough transmissions shifts. Out of factory warranty since 50K mi and my Mastertech extend warranty excludes batteries. Dealership advises many TB owners have had this reoccuring issue. Pitiful, I have never had a battery leak acid. Everyone check your AC delco battery! Oh, yes, green light indication on battery so battery is still good. I normally would have changed it out myself, but with an acid puddle I cannot expose myself to injury. Anyone else with battery acid leak? I am sure other componets (wires, hoses, lines) have been exposed.

envoyenvy2 · August 2004

Yeah, it is a known problem with these batteries.

Had mine replaced at around 30K miles under warranty. The dealer said they would clean up and neutralize the acid that had leaked. My battery never had a performance problem, just leaking acid.

gmfan · August 2004

Envoyenvy2- Did they replace with same battery that comes from factory?

envoyenvy2 · August 2004

I'm sure they did. Not sure about the TB's, but the Envoy's have an enclosure for the battery, I believe it is designed to cool the battery. At any rate, you cannot see the battery without removing this enclosure. There is a hole to look through to see the green eye.

Probably limited as to what batteries can be used if you keep this enclosure. Think I have seen other messages regarding this.

gmdrone · August 2004

H3 is based on the Colorado/355 platform, made in Shreveport. H3 will be built there as well.

ficuss · August 2004

Mark, that was a long vacation you were on. Did the triplett stories scare you off for a while?

gmfan · August 2004

Hey, dealer just called and quoted $250 for battery work and repairing acid leak. Replacing battery with newly designed AC battery with 5 yr warranty costs $75, labor $25, $50 for new positive cable connector that runs from starter to battery (determined to be faulty) and $80 labor for this. Of course, dealer says they will neutralize acid spill on inner frame and repaint at no charge. I remember seeing the power steering pump underneath battery...If resulting damage occurs to other components, I am dumping vehicle. Maybe the 04 TB's better? I am new to this forum, but have had many little problems on my 02 TB similar to others listed throughout forum. Nothing major, but nickle and diming me to death with repairs not covered by extended warranty.

ficuss · August 2004

Go back to post 8297 and higher and read what was being said regarding leaking batteries in Oct. 2002. Call Chevy customer service at 1-800-630-2438 and ask to have your problem repaired for free. The problem with the batteries and cables is well documented. You should not have to pay for their design errors.

Good luck

st1300v4 · August 2004

Going from a 29.5" diameter to 30" on your tires will have a negligible effect on your speedometer readings. To find the effect just take a ratio of the two diameters (strictly speaking, it's the ratio of the circumferences, but the pi's cancel out). For your example 29.5/30 = .983, so your speedometer will indicate 98% of the actual (or previous) reading. E.g. at 60mph it will indicate 59mph.

ccarbaugh · August 2004

LOL! Yeh i know a friend that has the 300C, they are sweet. I am not much of a Mopar fan. I had a Grand Cherokee Limited and has nothing but problems with it. Give it a shot, they are nice looking and can't beat the HEMI !! I just hope GMC does something about some of these issues, mirrors especially. Seems like a prominant problem out there with alot of people. Good Luck man!!

fpanno · August 2004

Looking for best message(s)and/or solution to solve the terrible wind noise for my 02 Envoy. Thanks

seiford · August 2004

Some have tried adding some foam inside the weatherstriping (see msg #14237 and others) but didn't have any noticeable reduction in wind noise.

That's one of the 6 things my Envoy is at the dealer for today.

previousamigo · August 2004

If you are talking about the cross winds that actually pull the top of the door open to make a terrible sound, I was able to show this to the dealer on a windy day and they replaced all door seals and adjusted the doors all under warranty.

If you are referring to the normal wind noise without the cross winds, try the whistling mirror fix that is posted way back on this forum. If you never use your roof racks, take them off (cross bars AND side rails). You can also try to find scrap/used Rainier front door laminated windows and windshield to replace yours. Or put in about 100 square feet of sound deadening fabric that someone did to lower the sound of the new exhaust system they put underneath. I also had the baffels replaced that are viewable with the front doors open in the front quarter panels and just behind the front wheel wells. Mine old ones were falling out and the dealer replaced with a new design under warranty.

Otherwise there ain't much else to do except trade for a Rainier.

scottc454 · August 2004

I prefer the caulk method in post #14233.

Actually, I haven't done it yet but I've been meaning to.

It tightens the seals only where needed, as opposed to putting a foam thing all the way along the door edge. This seems like it would be more effective because on my driver side door, there is a tight secton where the dollar won't easily slide through. I want to leave that part be and just raise the weatherstrip at the low points.

fpanno · August 2004

Any products out there that is proven to increasing MPG on the GMC Envoy?? Computer chip and the "Tornado" is what I've heard. Please recommend what has been successful.

scottc454 · August 2004

For the most part, the thing's already at maxiumum fuel economy. It is an SUV, after all.

The Tornado is a worthless gimmick. Anyone who tells you different is an idiot.
Getting one of those chips will increase performance at the expense of fuel economy.

It's possible that an aftermarket exhaust will increase gas mileage.

You could sell it an get an Equinox, though.

gmfan · August 2004

Got my vehicle back yesterday from dealer and looked it over. Dealership did a fantastic job. Having a great dealership is the key here, especially with early model triplets. They went ahead and performed the wiper motor recall by inserting the plugs to stop water entry. I guess the motor was okay. 50K mi on 02 TB and happy again. While looking under the hood when vehicle cold, I noticed the cold level indicator on the Dexcool reservior low. In fact, I opened reservior and indicates no fluid. Better not be water pump acting up, but got the extend warranty so no big deal. Would the PCM indicate low coolant? Anyone break 100K mi yet?

ross1962 · August 2004

Agree 100% with Scott and want to add that you will not find an SUV on the market with milage this good with this kind of horsepower and towing capacity. I think this largely has to do with the I6 motor which nobody else offers today in an SUV.

tmarkb2 · August 2004

pamigo,

What is the part number (and/or TSB#) for the newly designed baffles for the front quarter panels? I just closed the driver's side one in the door the other day. BTW, good idea taking off the luggage rack. I did it at around 500 miles from new. Much cleaner look.

All,

I've been reading several posts re: having the license plate surround gasket replaced. I don't know whether to take it to the dealer, try it myself or eat a bullet! Sounds as though some of you have some really nasty stories about chipped paint, re-painting the entire tailgate(!) and oozing gasket cement. Is this a big deal?

tmac8 · August 2004

After installing the Borla cat-back exhaust and racking up about 1000 miles, I recently checked fuel economy on a 6 1/2 hour one way trip and back. 2002 Envoy with 27000 miles and 3.73 gears.
On a 90 degree day with 15 mph head wind, I still improved mpg by 2 1/2 miles per gallon. Checked the same coming back. Although I did not buy it for increased mileage, it was a pleasant surprise.
BTW, I had the license plate gasket replaced twice and had no problems with paint or cement.

envoyenvy2 · August 2004

My take on the gasket. If yours came from the factory with it on, should be no issues with chipping paint or paint problems. The early 2002 models (mine was one) came from the factory without any gasket at all, and lots had problems with the plastic piece expanding in the heat and scraping the paint.

In my case, the paint was scraped a bit but not through the primer. The gasket covers where the paint is scraped, so I am not concerned with it. I saw some Envoys on the lot with the "oozing glue", so I asked the tech if it was a problem. He said they used no glue when they replaced, just tightened it in place. My guess is that they use the glue at the factory to hold them in place for assembly.

At any rate, mine looks great without any glue used. My truck is black, an extra plus because it makes the gasket practically invisible.

twinrotts · August 2004

Flirting with 35K miles and have convinced myself that an extended warranty will be a worthwhile investment. Considering the GM Major Guard. I live in NY but am looking at Blacks in PA. My only concern is the clause in the warranty that says to call the dealership at which the warranty was purchased to arrange for covered repairs.
Has anyone experienced a problem with using the warranty using a dealer other the where you purchased it?
Any comments on the overall quality of the GM Warranty?

tblazed · August 2004

Haven't seen this topic in over a year. Was reading in the new August '04 GM Techlink that GM, BMW, Honda, and Toyota together have come up with a new higher standard for gasoline - TOP TIER gas. Has to meet standards higher than the EPA sets.

The organization's web site explains a lot in detail-

http://www.toptiergas.com

That "cheaper, high volume" station I was using over a year ago is QuikTrip which is on the short list of brands (2 so far) that have met this new standard. Probably explains why I didn't have any idling problems with that brand, but started to have an intermittent stumble in the idle after using gas about 6-7 tanks from Sam's. The other brand that qualifys for TOP TIER is Chevron-Texaco. Shell says they will be certified by the end of the summer.

Something new to consider when choosing which brand of gas to buy.

hardhawk · August 2004

I would suggest that you do what I did. Take the Black dealership quote into your local dealer and tell them you will offer the same price that Black will sell it to you for. Tell them you would rather they get the money than Black. My dealer did it in a heartbeat. I imagine yours will too.

twinrotts · August 2004

Thanks Hardhawk.. I am indeed planning that approach but wanted to understand the consequences of my contingency plan of buying from Black in case my dealer would not deal.

In ealier discussions with the dealer, they were trying to push me to a different warranty provider claiming that they have better luck dealing with them.
My bet is they have a higher profit margin.

hardhawk · August 2004

I think you are right about the profit margin. Some people I know have been burned when they bought an extended warranty plan from the company their dealer was pushing and the company went under, leaving the buyer holding the bag. GM isn't going to go under and you have the added bonus of being able to use it anywhere at any GM dealer, should you have a problem while on a trip or away from your home dealer.

fpanno · August 2004

Is tblazed out there?? Do you have pictures on how you fixed your wind noise?? Message #6330 is what I'm intrested...and any other fixes you since then. Thanks

gmfan · August 2004

I would not worry if an aftermarket warranty company goes out of business. In most cases, another company will buy the defaulting or bankrupt company's book of business. For example, if my Mastertech goes under, it gets transferred to an actual insurance company rated "A" by A.M. Bests. Also, keep in mind there is probably a kickback or rebating the dealership receives from steering you with one warranty provider or another...which could put dealer in a position of conflict of interest.

My AC quit working this weekend. I turned off motor and re-cranked and everything is fine. I remember seeing many previous messages regarding this. Is this the AC switch everyone talks about? After vehicle has been sitting for thirty minutes or more when trying blow cold air, it will cycle blowing hot hair, and then cold, then hot air, and then finally continue cooling. My compressor was replaced one month ago and I wonder if this is related.

tblazed · August 2004

Seems there are several noise sources and several various fixes people have had luck doing. The things I did to mine might not necessarily apply to yours. email me and I will send you a few pics of what I did.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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