Well I found a TB EXT. It came of the truck on Friday and I was its First Test drive on SAT. It rides and drives really nice. Seams to have a little less body roll than the TB. The back doors are huge and give excellent entry and exit in to the rear and 3rd seats. Really nice over all. Unfotunetley every one that Chevy is shipping will have all the bells and whistles. I am look for the TB EXT with locking dif. and 4:10 w/o leather and all the fancy options. Dealer gave me a order price of $31,995 plus what ever rebate is place when it is delivered. Could be 8-12 weeks wait and who knows what offers they will have. I'm going to try to get him down to 31K and go with it. What have others paid for extended warranty?
I had some air noise coming from the A-pillar corners and added some closed-cell foam inside and behind the hollow weather seals. I cound see light thru the seals on both sides with the doors open, and adding these did eliminate the air leaking noise. Also seperated the tops of the plastic mirror housings (3 clips behind the mirror, release to work the top loose enough to add the tape strips, 2 more at bottom - hard to get to - don't break pulling apart too much) and added strips of black vinyl electrical tape 3 layers thick, to eliminate the wind whistling thru the mirrors. Aldo reglued the rubber baffles inside the front fenders with 3M weatherstrip adhesive. The factory had used some sort of non-hardening goo which let go after about 30 min pushing back in place. One of the quietest vehicles I've ever been in now. Quote from a new Ford F-150 owner riding with me in my TB at 75 MPH " this sure is quiet" (of course you have to consider the basis for his comparison!) Hope something here helps!
You guys are scaring me over here about the Fit-finish-build quality of the TB/Envoy/AS/Bravada... There is no way tblazed should have to fabricate his own door seals and/or mirror seals to make it quiet. That is whack!
I finally looked at the SUV comparison Edmund's did. Before I looked, I guessed the Trailblazer would finish in 3rd or 4th spot giving past Edmund's dislike for anything GM.
Nice to see Edmund's bias against GM hasn't changed. I'm sure if the Exploder had a Chevy badge, it would have finished 4th.
SLT2002: Too bad a good service dept closed down. King ORourke now sells Buick, Pontiac and GMC in addition to Caddy, so I think he will be around for a while.
As to Bravada wind noise, noticed yesterday on the highway at approx 65-70 mph - severe - thought a door was open. I will have to look further into the source - I'll take roof rack xmembers off as one gent suggested - but noise seems to be coming more from the mirror area.
Try running it with the mirror(s) folded in and see if the noise is any different. On the subaru WRX @ 115-130mph they get a wind noise off the mirror, but if folded doesn't make the noise.
I need your help. I am currently looking at buying a 1998 envoy from Carmax. I have never really looked at the envoy's and to be honest haven't seen that many on the road. The car is in EXCELLENT condition and has everything I could want. Carmax is selling it for $16,900, it has 57,000 miles on it and just like i said I do not see a thing wrong with it. Since i haven't seen that many on the road and really haven't heard much about them, i am relying on you to help me out with the pros and cons and possible suggestions of what to look for or lookout for. Please either reply to this message through a post or email me at millymom924@aol.com. Thanks!
Yes, they are here. We just got back from a trip to PA and I saw a new all white "LTZ"-look EXT sitting outside the local dealer by the road. From pics it looked kind of weird, but isn't all that bad in person, even in white. We just bought a new Avalanche 2 weeks ago, but I'd like to ride in a TB or TB EXT sometime to see what they're actually like.
I think you're in the wrong forum. This is for the new 2002 GM triplets, not the old ones like you're inquiring about. Keep looking under the SUV Town Hall and you should be able to find the right board, just for the old Envoy.
Here is a photo of the missing gasket everyone has been talking about. Stopped by the GMC dealer today to take a look. About 1/2 of the Envoys and TBs had the gasket.
Notice this is an XL. But the regular Envoy looked the same.
Here is a shot of the Envoy XL from the rear side. Notice the top is higher and has thicker rails for luggage rack. Also the rear passenger door is much wider. Dealer had three of these, all loaded and all of them white.
... Here is a photo of the license plate gasket in place. I meant to show this right after the other photo, but it didn't work that way. In any case, about half the Envoys had the gasket in place. Notice how it stops a couple of inches before it reaches the bottom of the handle. Not sure why it does that. I wonder if GM will retro fit the Envoys we have???
mrau wrote: "I wonder if GM will retro fit the Envoys we have???"
I'm sure they will be glad to. Otherwise, GM will have a lot of expensive paint/repaint bills on their hands. So in the long run it will be a lot cheaper for them to undertake the prevention.
As a proud owner of a 2002 Eddie Bauer Explorer V-8 I was glad to see it come out on top. Some of you believe that the Trailblazer didn't win because Edmunds is bias against GM. Go check out the article on www.TruckTrend.com where they tested the Explorer Ltd V-8, Envoy SLT, Grand Cherokee Ltd & Durango R/T. These are the same guys that bring you MotorTrend who named the Envoy SUV of the year. The Ford outclassed the GMC in every performance test. The only area the GMC was rated above the Ford was in off Hwy ride.
Off-hiway. That is funny the only one in that list above suited for off-road use is the GC. Just goes to show how un-real-world 99% of the articles and what not really are.
The older Envoy discussions died off due to lack of interest. You can still read those boards by putting "Envoy" in the search engine on the left navigation bar and following the links. Hopefully you can glean some info from them. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
It wasn't so much as the Trailblazer not winning, but the criteria in the article itself. Obviously, many things are a matter of opinion, but ranking a Durango above the Trailblazer boggles my mind. It's not like I'm losing sleep over it, but I can't accept it.
As for the performance debate, I look at it this way. For more money, worse gas mileage, and less horsepower, you can get a V-8 Explorer that will be a little bit better in off the line acceleration vs. the Envoy. By the same token, there must have been some reason you didn't get an Overland JGC. Ain't no SUV quicker than that. Maybe GM should have made a Vortec V-8 option available and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Moreover, why then did Motortrend rate the Envoy over the Explorer for SUV of the year? They really need to give the Explorer some styling and work on that interior big time.
You guys are a riot and magazines for that matter too. These are TRUCKS not race cars. When I want to go fast I get in my sports car, not my SUV. Quite entertaining.
I have no problem with the Explorer winning but I don't think the Trailblazer is a 4th place truck either. They faulted the truck with not having a 3rd row for example when the third row in any other mid-size SUV is unusable anyway. Of course the EXT version is coming.
I have gone that fast, but if it only topped out at 85mph I'd have no problem with that at all. I don't have to have exceptional 0-60 times, nor high top-end on my SUV. Heck if I was *that* concerned about my acceleration, I wouldn't have gone from 245-70-16 tires to 275-70-16 on it. My other car is a subaru XT6 AWD which I auto-x and go fast especially in the twisties with.
'Tis amazing what less than $3 worth of glue, tape and foam can do applied in the right places! I feel like I am doing the fine tweaking that GM should have done in the 9 months I waited before I bought my TB. Now I get to deal with the tailgate-lic frame-gasket issue. Then again I have never bought a "perfect" vehicle. My friend that is a Certified Lexus Tech is kept busy 6 days a week. Last time I visited him he was tearing down a '98 Lexus engine due to a chemical reaction happening with the coolant, radiator and engine block dissimilar metals causing engine failures, so it ain't just GM or American cars..
I'm from the Chicago area and have been waiting for the Envoy XL. I was told they would be available mid March. Then, end of April, then June! What is the deal?
towards removing a penny from the defroster vent on the dash for the front windshield. I'll try to summarize my little story. I had a folded brochure in my pocket that I pulled out and passed to some back passengers. A penny got stuck in the folds, and as I brought the brochure over my shoulder, the penny flew out and went right into the defroster vent like there was a vortex sucking the penny into the one place that's a pain to remove it from. I tried a pickle puller type tool, but there's some slanted louvers to direct air below the vent grid that killed my expedition into the vent for retrieval. What would really help is to know how to remove the part of the dash cover that covers the two dash mounted speakers. I would imagine that it's removable for access to those speakers, and once out of the way I would have better access to get down into the vent. Anybody know if that part of the dash comes off easily?
Since I haven't seen other complaints, can I assume I'm the only one who hates the oil dipstick? Has anyone figured out how to get an accurate reading? I've even tried wiping chalk on the stupid little oil colored, yellow thingie and am never sure. How can I master this engineering marvel?
the dipstick works pretty well if you get all of the oil out of the indentations first. When you push it in and pull it back out... if they all fill up, it's full! One thing I noticed, It takes about 7.25 quarts to get the dipstick to register "full"... Anyone else notice this?
I just picked my Bravada up from the dealer, and now the front lower fascia is noticeably firmer! I asked what they had done, besides replacing anything that was broken or missing. They Epoxied the pushpins in the "hold" position as well as tightened the cables that hold it in place. The body shop guy actually told me that this procedure was from a notice that came out for the 00 Jimmy/Blazer/Bravada. You think GM would have learned...
that you can overide a wire clip at the back of the glove box and remove the whole thing?This happened to me by accident as I pulled too hard as I opened the box.The whole thing dropped down and dumped the contents.In this position there is a large hole to access behind the dash.Pretty neat!
I just changed out of my work clothes, and crawled underneath my Bravada. They also replaced the plastic cords with braided stainless! No wonder it feels stronger!
It is funny, but then I am the goof who ran (runs?) his TB at the track I'll run anything there. Let you know if I take it on the 13th too.
I would put my TB up against all but the HO 4.7l Jeep though. Sure the V8's jump a bit ahead off the light, but once they shift, they loose ground fast enough. Earlier magazines stated that the I6 fell just short in the 1/4 mile to the Jeep V8, but I've run consistant 15.6's and am not buying it unless I see some time slips. Also, my nieghbors down the street run thier V8 Explorer and the other his jeep with me as we merge on the freeway to the office..two lanes for a good ways....niether overtakes me once were rolling. The Ford isn't even close. Jeeps must be geared better. Oh well.
YOU WROTE: "You guys are a riot and magazines for that matter too. These are TRUCKS not race cars. When I want to go fast I get in my sports car, not my SUV. Quite entertaining."
paisan, you're the one who's funny. You mean to tell me that you actually take your SUV off road? That's crazy. Who the hell would want to do something like that?
For those complaining about various issues with the triplets, remember, no vehicle is perfect. Yes there are many valid complaints that should be addressed. But even Toyota has problems. Take a look at the sludge site on the Edmunds site and you will see what I mean. Big problems with the V-6 in their bread and butter Camry and Sienna. Toyota is steadfastly refusing to admit they have a problem in some cars, even though it is obvious they do. At least GM is fixing the problems they find (including engine failures) without complaining.
As to the Edmunds test, I drove them all (literally) and picked a Bravada. Great performance and ride, quiet and comfortable. If I want a sports car I drive my Z-28. Then again, it won't get out of my driveway if there's 1/2" of snow on the ground!
I'll admit it, to me that's an oxymoron. I didn't buy my Envoy to take it off-roading. If for some reason I felt the need to do that, I would have bought something better suited for it. The Envoy is designed for comfort, unlike the Trooper, or the traditional Jeep. These are both very nice trucks, but just not something you'd want to take on long hauls. They have stiff suspensions, which make them tiresome to drive for long periods. I'm sure Paisan will disagree, though. But, I think one thing Paisan and most of us are in agreement with, is that the Isuzu Ascender shouldn't be produced. It doesn't fit Isuzu's image. Just as we feel Isuzu doesn't fit the image we were looking for when we bought our triplets. Car companies should stick with what works for them.
Upon my 1st visit for the fan issue, the service consultant told me to go back and discuss the issue with the trans. technician. He told me about the reprogramming fix per the TSB and that this fan is all new technology. As mentioned, it was in a second time for new programming but still turns on every now and then. It would appear that whatever the technology is in this, there is no fix.
Well as I haven't driven in any of the triplets for an extended trip I can't comment one way or the other on it. My guess is that they will handle better than the trooper on-road due to their lower suspension and overall lower CG. Having sat in the front seat I'm not a big fan of the low seating in the triplets as opposed to the captain's chairs in the Trooper, I had the same issue with the axiom and rodeos. The stock troopers actually have too soft a suspension in the US market. They are sold with hydrolic shocks stock as opposed to gas-charged ones found in all other markets, this was done to provide a "softer" ride for the US market.
For most of the SUV owners out there the triplets is exactly what they want their image to be: high riding, filled with luxo items (such as the Bose Stereo, dual A/C, etc. etc.), 4wd, and not be a mini-van even though most would be better suited with the Astro/Safari or other mid-sized van. To this I think GM has done a great job in knowing its market.
For me personally if I were in charge of GM, what I would do is this:
1)Subizu Combine Subaru and Isuzu and Suzuki into one make, target sportmen, outdoors, off-roaders, and the niche markets in the area. Build some really capable off-road vehicles like the Trooper (maybe a bit larger to take on the TLC) and harness the "go farther/LL bean" stuff.
2) Chevy Trucks: Combine Chevy Trucks and GMC trucks into one group targeting suburbia with Suburbans, Yukons, Envoys, Avalanche, Safari, Family Vans, mini-vans, etc.
3) GMC Trucks: Pickups, Dualies, Duramax Diesels, Work Vans, Work mid-vans, etc. Offer them all with Duramax 3, 4, 5, 6.6l (whatever suits the need) engines and gas options. These would not be targeted for home or family use but back to basics trucks.
4) Corvette: Take all the performance cars in the Generals stable and group them in here.
5) Chevy: the run of the mill cars such as buicks, chevys, pontiac non-performance cars
6) Cadillac: Luxury models.
This IMHO would allow GM to really segment the market and sell more cars.
I'm finally taking in my TB to get hopefully solve my fan issue. There appear to be 2 TSB's out there, 300801 and 311001.
The fan is obviously driven by the engine, but the clutch appears to be electronically controlled. Seems to make sense as it's a more of a high tech solution then the old fan clutches. Someone posted a while back that there were wires going to the fan housing. Also, in the engine fuse box there is a fan fuse.
Anyway, the fan comes on for me when going up in the mountains and I believe it's due to the transmission fluid getting hot. When going uphill that much, the torque convertor spends a lot of time in the unlocked position and this causes a lot more heat.
My guess is that they were a bit on the conservative side when setting the temperature at which the fan should come one. The fix probably just jacks up the temperature setting a little bit, but it's still possible for the fan to come on. What they need to do is hook that sensor to the computer so that the fan never comes on when going over a certain speed. I can't see how much it would help if you're already going 60mph.
As for the fan coming on in the morning when it's cold, I'm not at all concerned about that as it's a normal side effect. Even though it's an electronically controlled clutch, there's still probably fluid in there that needs to warm up a bit before the fan breaks free.
I may not be exactly correct on everything, but I believe I have contructed a theory that explains all fan problems. I just wish the people at the dealership were more knowledgeable about this. I printed out the page from nhsta.gov with the TSB numbers on it. I'm going to hand it to them and say "Do this."
"At least GM is fixing the problems they find (including engine failures) without complaining."
Yes GAM2, after knowingly putting cars on the road (see previous post from someone who's father works on the TB assembly line) with defective engines that have been failing while people have been driving, some on the highway at 60 - 70 miles an hours, which in turn is putting their lives and the lives of everyone else on the road in jeopardy, GM, being the big honorable company they are, are fixing the defective parts that NEVER should have left the factory.
Comments
See Details here.
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/roof-rack-detail-notes.html
tim
-mike
-mike
Nice to see Edmund's bias against GM hasn't changed. I'm sure if the Exploder had a Chevy badge, it would have finished 4th.
Chevy Dealer replaced the Cam Solenoid Valve and reprogrammed PCM per Admin Message VSS20010154
Part Number - 12568078
Description - Valve 0.296
My Trail Blazer got so bad that I went from my house to the Chevy Dealer which is 42 miles away on a half of tank of gas.
Too bad a good service dept closed down. King ORourke now sells Buick, Pontiac and GMC in addition to Caddy, so I think he will be around for a while.
As to Bravada wind noise, noticed yesterday on the highway at approx 65-70 mph - severe - thought a door was open. I will have to look further into the source - I'll take roof rack xmembers off as one gent suggested - but noise seems to be coming more from the mirror area.
Let u know if I find anything.
-mike
I need your help. I am currently looking at buying a 1998 envoy from Carmax. I have never really looked at the envoy's and to be honest haven't seen that many on the road. The car is in EXCELLENT condition and has everything I could want. Carmax is selling it for $16,900, it has 57,000 miles on it and just like i said I do not see a thing wrong with it. Since i haven't seen that many on the road and really haven't heard much about them, i am relying on you to help me out with the pros and cons and possible suggestions of what to look for or lookout for. Please either reply to this message through a post or email me at millymom924@aol.com. Thanks!
Notice this is an XL. But the regular Envoy looked the same.
I wonder if GM will retro fit the Envoys we have???
"I wonder if GM will retro fit the Envoys we have???"
I'm sure they will be glad to. Otherwise, GM will have a lot of expensive paint/repaint bills on their hands. So in the long run it will be a lot cheaper for them to undertake the prevention.
Thanks for posting the photos!
-mike
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
It wasn't so much as the Trailblazer not winning, but the criteria in the article itself. Obviously, many things are a matter of opinion, but ranking a Durango above the Trailblazer boggles my mind. It's not like I'm losing sleep over it, but I can't accept it.
As for the performance debate, I look at it this way. For more money, worse gas mileage, and less horsepower, you can get a V-8 Explorer that will be a little bit better in off the line acceleration vs. the Envoy. By the same token, there must have been some reason you didn't get an Overland JGC. Ain't no SUV quicker than that. Maybe GM should have made a Vortec V-8 option available and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Moreover, why then did Motortrend rate the Envoy over the Explorer for SUV of the year? They really need to give the Explorer some styling and work on that interior big time.
-mike
-mike
What would really help is to know how to remove the part of the dash cover that covers the two dash mounted speakers. I would imagine that it's removable for access to those speakers, and once out of the way I would have better access to get down into the vent. Anybody know if that part of the dash comes off easily?
I would put my TB up against all but the HO 4.7l Jeep though. Sure the V8's jump a bit ahead off the light, but once they shift, they loose ground fast enough. Earlier magazines stated that the I6 fell just short in the 1/4 mile to the Jeep V8, but I've run consistant 15.6's and am not buying it unless I see some time slips. Also, my nieghbors down the street run thier V8 Explorer and the other his jeep with me as we merge on the freeway to the office..two lanes for a good ways....niether overtakes me once were rolling. The Ford isn't even close. Jeeps must be geared better. Oh well.
tim
1999 GTP @ 13.689
2000 Alero "GT" @ 15.591
2002 Trailblazer LTZ @ 15.675
YOU WROTE:
"You guys are a riot and magazines for that matter too. These are TRUCKS not race cars. When I want to go fast I get in my sports car, not my SUV. Quite entertaining."
-mike
-mike
V-6 in their bread and butter Camry and Sienna.
Toyota is steadfastly refusing to admit they have a problem in some cars, even though it is obvious they do. At least GM is fixing the problems they find (including engine failures) without complaining.
As to the Edmunds test, I drove them all (literally) and picked a Bravada. Great performance and ride, quiet and comfortable.
If I want a sports car I drive my Z-28. Then again, it won't get out of my driveway if there's 1/2" of snow on the ground!
GAM2
But, I think one thing Paisan and most of us are in agreement with, is that the Isuzu Ascender shouldn't be produced. It doesn't fit Isuzu's image. Just as we feel Isuzu doesn't fit the image we were looking for when we bought our triplets. Car companies should stick with what works for them.
My dealer is trying to help me but GM is still playing stupid and saying there isn't a problem or a gasket fix.
I tried calling customer assistance who did nothing but call my dealer and ask them how to fix the problem.
I confirmed 3 other dealerships in the area are getting new Trailblazers from the factory with the gasket.
Anybody know what GM's problem is? Are they trying to find a way to cut back on sales and repeat buyers?
I now know what Clark Howard means when he talks about big companys with lots of CUSTOMER NO-SERVICE!
For most of the SUV owners out there the triplets is exactly what they want their image to be: high riding, filled with luxo items (such as the Bose Stereo, dual A/C, etc. etc.), 4wd, and not be a mini-van even though most would be better suited with the Astro/Safari or other mid-sized van. To this I think GM has done a great job in knowing its market.
For me personally if I were in charge of GM, what I would do is this:
1)Subizu Combine Subaru and Isuzu and Suzuki into one make, target sportmen, outdoors, off-roaders, and the niche markets in the area. Build some really capable off-road vehicles like the Trooper (maybe a bit larger to take on the TLC) and harness the "go farther/LL bean" stuff.
2) Chevy Trucks: Combine Chevy Trucks and GMC trucks into one group targeting suburbia with Suburbans, Yukons, Envoys, Avalanche, Safari, Family Vans, mini-vans, etc.
3) GMC Trucks: Pickups, Dualies, Duramax Diesels, Work Vans, Work mid-vans, etc. Offer them all with Duramax 3, 4, 5, 6.6l (whatever suits the need) engines and gas options. These would not be targeted for home or family use but back to basics trucks.
4) Corvette: Take all the performance cars in the Generals stable and group them in here.
5) Chevy: the run of the mill cars such as buicks, chevys, pontiac non-performance cars
6) Cadillac: Luxury models.
This IMHO would allow GM to really segment the market and sell more cars.
-mike
-mike
The fan is obviously driven by the engine, but the clutch appears to be electronically controlled. Seems to make sense as it's a more of a high tech solution then the old fan clutches. Someone posted a while back that there were wires going to the fan housing. Also, in the engine fuse box there is a fan fuse.
Anyway, the fan comes on for me when going up in the mountains and I believe it's due to the transmission fluid getting hot. When going uphill that much, the torque convertor spends a lot of time in the unlocked position and this causes a lot more heat.
My guess is that they were a bit on the conservative side when setting the temperature at which the fan should come one. The fix probably just jacks up the temperature setting a little bit, but it's still possible for the fan to come on. What they need to do is hook that sensor to the computer so that the fan never comes on when going over a certain speed. I can't see how much it would help if you're already going 60mph.
As for the fan coming on in the morning when it's cold, I'm not at all concerned about that as it's a normal side effect. Even though it's an electronically controlled clutch, there's still probably fluid in there that needs to warm up a bit before the fan breaks free.
I may not be exactly correct on everything, but I believe I have contructed a theory that explains all fan problems. I just wish the people at the dealership were more knowledgeable about this. I printed out the page from nhsta.gov with the TSB numbers on it. I'm going to hand it to them and say "Do this."
Yes GAM2, after knowingly putting cars on the road (see previous post from someone who's father works on the TB assembly line) with defective engines that have been failing while people have been driving, some on the highway at 60 - 70 miles an hours, which in turn is putting their lives and the lives of everyone else on the road in jeopardy, GM, being the big honorable company they are, are fixing the defective parts that NEVER should have left the factory.