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Comments
Have you heard anything about Rosenthal in Tyson?
Washington Checkbook Magazine (much like Consumer Reports) ranks dealerships in our area. You can obtain a copy at most bookstores.
I think there is a new Jaguar dealer in Alexandria, Va? Word-of-mouth indicates they really try to please the customer. When I was pricing the car, they were very honest regarding prices. I toured the facility (then under construction) and the sales managers were gracious and they were assembling a service team at that time. They told me there were picking the best from other area Jaguar dealers. You might give want to them a try.
Can you email me your service guy's name.
I will take you up on your rec. thanks again!
One attribute of quality that is overlooked is consistency. You may have a perfect car. I and at least a few others have had issues with poor build quality. If all I had was a few minor issues, I wouldn't have posted them, but as you have read, the problems are numerous & some relatively serious - blown rad hose before delivery, ecm set for auto on a std transmission, brakes seizing, rough idle (which usually means premature failure of something costly). Did I mention that aside from the Rad hose, the dealership has not been able to fix a single problem?
My point is simple and important -- quality is not consistent with the x-type, you take your chances. Add to that the threads here that discuss the inconsistency of dealer service & I'd say people would like to hear it before they lay out a reasonable amount of money.
"In 1999, Jaguar ranked first out of 36 automakers in initial quality. In 2000, the year the S-Type was introduced, it dropped to 10th, Mr. Ivers said. Then in 2001 it rose to second. In 2002, when the X-Type was new, Jaguar dropped to 19th (out of 35). This year, it was 10th.
'That raises the question about the XJ,' Mr. Ivers said. 'Will they struggle with that launch?'"
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/bizfocus/archives/2003/06/22/2003- 056330
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/- FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1054966360699
I understand that too many people have had problems with their cars. However, every time Jaguar has released a new model, it has had bugs to work out, and they always fix the cars. Jaguar always rebounds, and X-type quality has been raising significantly; as I have said before, Jaguar is one of the marques with the best quality today. If you have a bad car, take it up with JNA - they will help you if you push a bit. For the most part, though, Jaguars and quality go hand in hand. Best of luck to those with trouble, because that can be beyond frustrating; but condemning Jaguar isn't going to get the problems fixed. Get Jaguar to fix your problems - they are very good and have replaced a number of problematic vehicles without too much trouble at all. Then, everyone's a winner.
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Have you all heard of the changes for 2004?
The newest X-type features a bolted together structure in some places, not unlike that of the XJ, and things such as the front end, etc., are now totally replaceable in the event of a collision. They also supposedly fixed up the interior a bit with new dials, trims, and materials (though I don't think they needed to, but if it's even better, who am I to argue?) and have added more features (like 6 standard speakers, instead of 4) and a whole host of other gadgets. They also restyled parts of the car, and added different exterior trims as well. I haven't seen the latest cars, but I'm sure they'll be great since they've been infused with the latest developments from Jaguar.
Also, any changes in the works for the 2004 model vs. 2003?
Thanks!
The following is from the European debut of the diesel X-type, so much of the information is only for European spec cars, such as half of the engine information, etc. However, other changes to the line are global and some are highlighted here. See page 2 of 9 of the article to view a bulleted list of some of the changes. There is everything from new colors to new structures to front parking sensors and three postition memory seats with four angles of motion just for the headrests and many other gadgets!
http://www.carpages.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_the_new_x_type_diesel_par- t_1_15_06_03.asp
As for the 2.5 engine performance - while I don't have that engine, the 2.5 is essentially the same engine as my 3.0 liter, but not bored out as much, and while there is a noticeable power difference between the two, the 2.5 is in no way a wimpy little engine. I would encourage you to get the 3.0 if you can, as it does enhance the driving experience and makes the car a rocket once it is broken in. Road & Track said that the 3.0 X-type engine receives "universal praise" from its editorial staff, and that it is "surprisingly powerful." They loved its torque band, and one editor exclaimed loudly that it produces "Great freeway passing power!" The 2.5 won't be as fast, but it cannot be terribly slower.
One reason some groups have not been able to get performance numbers with the car is because they can't launch it correctly since the wheels don't loose traction, and their methods of testing 0-60 are to start the timer once motion occurs, not when the driver actually slams his foot against the accelerator. Also, they never use cars whose engines have been broken in, and Jaguars are vehicles that must be broken in before maximum performance can be had - trust me, me car still gets better every day, and the same was true of our S-type and XJ when they were newer. Seriously, everything from the engine and the adaptive transmission that "learns" your driving style to the suspension must be broken in before they become truly responsive as they can be, and because of this, the car is continually improving with ownership time.
BTW, the manual transmission bundled with the 2.5 liter engine should make a pretty zippy car. The manual and the 3.0 liter engine driven by Car & Driver got a 6.3 second 0-60 run, and AutoCar, CAR, and Road & Track have achieved 0-60 in 6.5 seconds with the 3.0 liter. A 2.5 won't get those numbers, but it will get the numbers Jaguar has said it is capable of, and with the 2004's having drivetrain refinements and lighter structures, it may even be better.
While not fully regretful, I really want the 3.0 now that I have driven the 2.5 for five months. Hopefully Jag will offer incentives for those of us who want to come off our leases early for the newer, meaner cars!
They had to do it again and improve!
Yesterday, I went to the Jag dealership to check out the current lineup of cars and see what was new with all the various models. I was especially looking at the latest XJ8, since it stands the best chance of becoming the next car to join the family lineup soon. It was very very nice, and all of the mechanical pieces, such as the door latches and trunklatch, had a certain feel to them that was quite upscale feeling. It has more chrome and brightwork highlighting thin pieces of the interior too, and the outside isn't bad looking either, though it still is not as young or sleek looking compared to the X-type, still keeping its rather upright pillars and squared corners. The lowest price I could find on the lot was about $60,000 (a silver one with ivory interior), and the highest price was $75,000 (a black on black XJR with natural wood stain and chrome, as opposed to the grey with body colored trim).
After looking at the XJ's in great detail, I decided to compare them with the X-types sitting next to them.
While the new XJ has grown significantly upward and a little bit in every direction (it's a large car now), I was surprised to see how large the X-type still looked even next to the XJ. You can tell that the X-type is a smaller car, but it doesn't look all that much smaller and in fact holds its own in style and presence next to the largest Jaguar sedan. I was expecting to almost be let-down by the X-type, which starts at less than half the price of a new base XJ8, but instead I was pleasantly surprised at how good the two family members looked by each others' side. The front ends of the cars are identical in theme, with the X-type's sportier, wedgier profile causing its front end to appear lower to the ground as if it were about to pounce. The XJ retains a rather flat front end; the X-type's is curved. The XJ has round lights (that are actually ellipses like the X-type, but not nearly to the same degree); the X-type's ellipses look athletic as if the car has been traveling at high speeds and everything was slightly swooped back. I liked how chrome surrounded the entire window area of the XJ, as opposed to the X-type's trim, which only goes around the top of the windows, but the 2004 X-type (these were 2003's) will follow the XJ more closely in more than one way, and window trim that surrounds the entire window area is one way. I've found the side profiles of Jaguars to be their least beautiful angle, at least while they are parked. Seeing one in motion from the side is quite stunning to my eyes, but parked, I don't care for the look. The X-type's wedge profile I like better than the bland rectangular shape of the XJ. The old one curved down near the rear as the S-type does, but this new one really is just a rectangle from the side. The X-type looks more muscular, with the arches over the rear wheels being more pronounced than on the XJ, which also has them, but much lesser ones. The XJ's sides are also kind of flat; the X-type's bow outward with muscle starting from the base of the windows, and then arch inward lower down, much more like an XK. The X-type is a much more sculpted car overall. At the rear, the X-type's lights look longer than they are tall, and follow the XK's look. The XJ's lights are tall "D"'s. The XJ gets large twin tailpipes like those of what I call the Series I S-types (2000 - 2002 models) that are unchromed; the X-type has elliptical twin pipes that are much smaller, following suit of the 2003 S-type, and they are flashier chrome. I wouldn't mind larger tips on the X-type, which I think would enhance the look, but I like the chrome that the X-type pipes have over the regular unpolished metal color of the XJ pipes. Oh yeah, there was rust on the XJ's mufflers (they aren't aluminum). Finally, the X-type's rear end bows inward as it goes back, following the traditional backend look of the Jaguars. The S-type was criticized a bit for having a rear end that does not bow in very much (it does, but not nearly as much as the X-type's), and the XJ seems to follow the S-type in having a less accentuated bow. I'm surprised it hasn't been derided yet for such a thing. The X-type's tail also slopes downward in the Jaguar tradition, where as the XJ's is now quite tall, following its high beltline.
You remember I noted the latches of the XJ feeling very upscale. Well, aparently, Jaguar has replaced those of the X-type with the same ones in the new XJ, because the X-type's doors and trunk have the same feel now. My own X-type has a solid thunk to the doors, but these new X-types have latches that almost seem to grab the door or trunklid and pull them in, instead of having to be pushed all the way in by the person closing the door or lid. The feel is almost hard to describe, but very pleasant. I wounldn't mind fitting my own X-type with such latches... And so, I ented the cabin of the topaz $39,000 X-type next to the $65,000 midnight blue 2004 XJ I was just sitting in...
The X-type lacks as much interior brightwork as is found within the new XJ, but so does the XK-Series and S-type. If you'll remeber, the previous XJ has no interior chrome save for but in a few little places - it doesn't even have any on the part of the air vents you touch to adjust the angle of the flow - the X-type's cabin is actually nicer overall than the old XJ's both in fit and design, and Jaguar just seems to add more and more brightwork to the interiors of its cars. X-type's cabin also is moderately smaller than the new XJ's (it is larger than the old XJ's though), but I was surprised to find myself feeling that while the new XJ's cabin was larger thanks to the car itself being larger, it was not a huge upgrade in interior space compared with the X-type. Indeed, the same is true of the trunks, with the X-type having a 16 cubic foot trunk, and the XJ having a 16.2 cubic foot trunk - the interior seems to follow by having an equivalent ratio of more space, which is not so much more. The X-type feels very much like a slightly scaled down XJ, really - these newest ones even more so than my own early model (consider what I am saying here - you know how in love I am with my own car!) I was also surprised to find that the X-type aparently has about the same amount of wood throughout its cabin as the XJ. Yes, the XJ has a little bit more since it is wider in total car dimensions, and because the pattern on the doors allows for a little bit more. But from the pictures of the interior of the XJ I had seen and the knowlege I had had from sitting in my own X-type before, I believed the XJ was going to have much more wood than it actually does. You can actually see that the XJ has about the same amount of interior wood as the X-type, and S-type as well, thanks to the instrument cluster. Remember that the older version of the car had circles cut into the wood
The areas where the sunroof, garage door, and front map lighting controls are located are identical betweent the X-type and XJ, but the XJ has a thin felt-like material covering the plastic that surrounds the black buttons and a sunglass holder that folds down (I tell you those kinds of sunglass holders are useless - it's the same kind as found in our Expedition and none of the sunglasses I've owned, from Okley to you name it, will fit in them. They didn't fit in our old XJ either, and they don't fit in the new one). I'm a bit worried that the felt covering the outside would rub off with too much touching (kind of like the black felt inside the sunglass holder located down and to the left of the X-type's steering wheel - mine hasn't rubbed off, but some people have reported it has in their cars). Those so-called by cinics "Ford" window buttons and climate and radio buttons are identical between the new XJ and X-type; in fact, every button from mirror adjustment contols to radio/integrated phone mute buttons were identical. I like them. The "piano black" plastic that surrounds the radio and climate control buttons in the XJ is nice, but it quickly becomes horribly covered in fingerprints and looks to scratch very easily too. I like its look when clean and prestine better than the newest X-type's gray and slightly metallic material in terms of classis aesthetic appeal (probably because it is shiny - really, that's the reason), but the X-type's is undoubtably more durable and is trying to appeal to a more youthful appearance with a slightly metallic gray color. They may change it over to "piano black" in the 2004 model, and I hope they do. What it has now though, is not nearly as bad as the fimsy black or gray plastic found in BMW's or the the offensively cheap (wannabe) "aluminum-look" center console of some Infiniti/Nissan cars. Overall, the dash is a fit for the size of the X-type scale model of the dash in the XJ, and though there are minor differences, such as the glovebox release buttons, the interior themes are identical.
From the backseat, the X-type is a little bit more cramped than the XJ, but also much better than the S-type; and all of them are lightyears ahead of the XK's "backseat". The rear seats of the XJ feel a little plusher in the amount of cushioning that they have, where as the X-type keeps more of a sport-sedan, European feel to its rear seats. Headroom in the XJ's rear is nice, but I found no reason to complain about the X-type's headroom either (and that's at a little over 6 feet tall BTW). I am eager to try out the new seats to be had in the 2004 X-type though, as they are supposed to be so able to accomidate the human figure that the headrests themselves have something around six different angles of movement. The 2004 X-type will also have at least 3 memory saves for front seating positions, and front-end parking sensors like those of the Vanden Plas and some S-Class Mercedes models.
The ride of the newest XJ8 is softer than the X-type's, and you also know you are in a larger car. It was really smooth, but not so magic carpet-like as the outgoing XJ model. It is sportier than before and that's probably why, but a bit floaty at times. Steering was very good and almost lighter feeling than my X-type's. I didn't drive a newer X-type since I have my own, but I've heard the steering of the newer models is different from earlier versions such as mine; lighter like the XJ's but more communicative. It felt just about as quick as my X-type, and the gearing was in one word, smooth. The X-type still has a sporting edge over the XJ8, and "size does matter," as while the new XJ is much more tossable than the outgoing model, it is still not "zippy" or peppy as a smaller sized car such as the X-type. Neither car is in any way a chore to drive though. Like in the S-type, the automatic transmission "creep" of the new XJ is a bit more alive than in the X-type probably because the friction of AWD. The creep of the XJ feels looser than the X-type's, but not more powerful once both are creeping along. You have to hold your foot on the brake a little bit more firmly at stoplights, because the creep really pushes the car foreward quickly if the brakes are not engaged. The X-type's creep is more gadual, and since I drive one all the time, more predictable.
The XJR is what I want! Though still not as zippy/tossable a machine as the X-type because of its size, it is more powerful than anything that was on the road in the area while I was driving it. The suspension is much harder than my the XJ8 I drove before, and the X-type's suspension, though with much more of a sporting edge than the softer XJ8's, was less punishing over road imperfections than the XJR's. Still, all of that linear power and the whirl of the supercharger is addicting, and all of that with the luxury these cars have is quite a package. Braking was incredible. The R performance looks of the XJR also make it look almost as youthful as a standard X-type.
Going home though, I was very much pleased with the X-type I have. The way that it compares with the new XJ was surprisingly good, especially for starting at less than half the price of the new car. Though I had just gotten out of a supercharged XJR before heading home in the X-type, it really didn't feel underpowered in any way, and it really shined on the freeway as I shot past the other cars. The AWD really gives it a cornering advantage too, and though less luxurious than the new XJ, it trades that luxury for a youthful, sporting character and more value. I truly felt that I was going to be dissapointed with the X-type after experiencing the
With the 2004 X-type appearing with a countless number of improvements, I'm very excited to see what is yet to appear.
When Infinity adds AWD to the G35, look out for some competition. I have both cars and love both for different reasons. Still nothing beats Jag service and style.
Think they will let us out of our leases early to get our hands on the new and improved Jag? What do you think will happen to the value of the '02 and the '03 X-Type with the '04 changes?
As for writing for a magazine, I don't believe I have the quickness of wit or the ability to employ rhetorical elements and features in a correct syntactical order to be "professional," but I'll take that comment as a very gracious complement. Have a great day!
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I don't think the first X-types had any luxury shortcomings compared to the competition - it didn't have the memory seat option that the new upgraded one will have, but at the time, the 3-Series didn't even come with power seats or cruise control; the X-type always had a power driver's seat at least, and anyone with any options on the car got the power upgrades to all seats (since they had to have the X1 package at the time). The A4 still comes with manually adjusting seats, and while they did a nice job designing all of the levers you have to pump and dials to turn to get the seat in a comfortable position, it is still manual seats in a $30,000 Audi (I know you can upgrade to power seats, but you also have to get the larger engine to do so - again, no matter what X-type you have, it always had a power seat for the driver, standard, at least). The 5-Series doesn't even have an automatic climate control system as advanced as the one in the X-type (and it has less interior space than the X-type); where the ones in BMW's are partially automatic and lacking environment sensors, the X-type's is fully automatic with solar sensors (the bluish, opaque, coin-sized circle located next to the driver's A-pillar), pollen sensors and filters, odor purifiers, etc. X-type can be had with automatic windshield wipers, automatic headlamps, voice controls, the largest navigation screen available in the industry today, ultrasonic reverse sensors, one-touch power everything (S-type, XJ, and XK didn't even have that when the X-type was released), and a whole host of other gadgetry. Not to mention the usual refinements - folding rear seats, heated seats, computer message center, internal and external safety system sensors (part of ARTS), aluminum alloy wheels with a full spare (the newest C-Class is available with plastic hubcaps - in a $30,000 car!), self-adjusting handbrake, lighting for all controls and special abiance lighting (see the little orange light near the standard garage door opener buttons? Ever notice how it shines down on your hand and the controls at night? The magazine guys mentioned the one in the A6, but forgot to mention that the X-type has the same thing.) It has heated washer jets, heated headlamps (I don't know why, but this is luxury - excess is allowed), a fully fiber optic electrical system that works at the speed of light, and the largest trunk in its class - 16 cubic feet (the new huge XJ has 16.2 cubic feet, as does the new Rolls Royce Phantom) - more than anything else competing. Then there is the available Alpine sound system that was voted the best car sound system availabe (yes, even over the Lexus ML system) in an independent test; it features double sub wuffers and 10 - 12 surroundsound speakers. The list goes on and on, and I still haven't even mentioned that the X-type comes standard with a forest of hand-finished wood and hand-cut and stitched leather, - the same leather to be found in Bentleys and Rolls Royces and Ferraris - and did I mention that those tengible icons of luxury were standard (yes, I repeated the word for emphasis) along with a full-time AWD system with a unique RWD bias, all at the price points where competitors give plastic-vinyl, cloth, and fake aluminum wannabe trim? Then there is the luxury of engines that are more powerful compared to the competing European engines - 231 hp X-type 3.0 v. 225 hp BMW 330i; the rest all go down from there... I won't even mention how the X-type also has the most rigid structure in its class, or a completely sealed transmission, or any other design parts that are superior to the rest of the pack.
Despite my enthusiasm for the car, I do understand that it is not a perfect car - no car is. But the amount of joy the car brings me when I drive it, and truly the amount of features it has or can be had with, as well as its soft-luxury and hardcore performance balance really create quite a package. When it comes to features that are lacking compared to competing cars, all I can think of are the memory seats (which the new one will have, along with plenty more "excess"), so to say that the current car was lacking a bit in its luxury equipment compared to competing cars, seems to almost be putting down all the trouble the design guys went through to offer things like voice controls or more sensors than NASA uses, or the iconic leather, wood, lambs wool rugs and full carpeting (the Aston Martin DB7 has metal under the rugs - gasp!) that IMO say luxury a lot more than a thin sliver of aluminum pasted between the molding cracks on the dash of some competing car with cloth or vinyl seats that you have to upgrade from by pumping more money into the car just to get above Chevy Cavalier or Ford Focus levels of luxury. My grandmother's Buick came with leather, power everything (and and a bigger engine) and cost a fraction of what I would have paid for a vinyl-seated, plastic aluminum trimmed, 4-banger A4. But the X-type has real luxury that you can see from the start (wood, leather, lambs wool rugs, standard AWD) - no matter what engine size you choose, and the same refinement of the A4 that the Buick lacks (and it has a more powerful engine than both cars). I don't know, it just seems to me that the Jag has more features and luxury touches...
BTW - when you said "new E type", did you mean the E-Class Mercedes Benz or were you refering to a body type like the old E-type in reference to the new XK8? In either case, if a $60,000 luxury sedan and a $70,000 GT both "can compare" to the $30,000 X-type "entry level" offering from Jaguar, I'd say it's one heck of a great car! But you're right, the 2004 will be a lot better! Sorry to hear about how your car was problematic too - that really is bothersome and takes a lot of fun out of ownership. I'm glad Jaguar fixed up the line quickly though. Even the surveys have noticed Jaguar's ironing out of the problems in the X-type - it jumped up nine positions in one of the ratings, so the cars are definitely getting better.
And....330 bhp? Jag better let me out of the under powered 2.5 lease for this! Have you contacted JNA to do this before?
No "serious" problems with the current X and it does look sleek and sophisticated. The trunk space still amazes me. Heads turn everywhere. Wonder why Ford did not put powerful engines in the car from the start? I guess they are getting it right during year three of production!
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"The updated [2004] X-TYPE range takes Jaguar ownership, as well as the Jaguar
philosophy, into new areas"
Also, a fellow Jaguar owner who posted some stuff about the new X-type on another site warned: "Be prepared for the media to misrepresent the Bolt-On Front End (BOFE)
structure. This is the same design the new XJ uses and that the AutoSpies web
site did not understand." You've probably all read the mistaken AutoSpies report, in which "author" of the "article" as well as the bodyshop that the crashed 2004 XJ was taken to did not understand the design of the new BOFE, also found on the new X-type, and reported a (disproven) flaw in the aluminum structure. A Jaguar engineer representative followed up, explaining the way the structure worked (aparently, the bumper bar took damage as it was designed to) and AutoSpies was good enough to post that response as well.
The whole story:
Initial Article
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000160579.cfm
Response and Answer
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000162797.cfm
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/openpic.php?name=../picture_library/- dir_21/car_portal_pic_10596.jpg
The above links show pics of XType Estates ( aka wagons)loaded for delivery in the UK. Also a quote from the article:
"Set to take on BMW's 3-Series Touring and Audi's A4 Avant, the new estate is
likely to carry a £1,500 premium over the saloon. A secret R-badged flagship to
rival Mercedes' C32 AMG estate is also undergoing testing. Offering at least
330bhp from its 3.0-litre V6, it could cost around £35,000."
Wow, that would be a 100 hp jump from the present V6. If they are doing it for the wagon I would guess it would be available in the sedan.
Sorry, the above links take you to a sign up page. Apparently you can only look at it once. Perhaps a new user will get through.
While I originally intended to get a manual, my wife does not drive stick and this would have been impractical. I do enjoy playing with the electronic transmission and, while not as responsive as a full manual, it is a good compromise. I like the J-Gate setup with its dedicated shift points better than the systems such as that on the Mercedes-Benz C class which one taps back and forth. With the J-Gate, on knows which gear one is in by feel. With the side-to-side setup, one must look at the display to know. This seems less convenient as it requires the driver to look away from road.
I rather agree with jagboyxtype's comments about interior luxury. Indeed, the luxury level was a determining factor in my purchase. While the BMW 325xi, in my opinion, was the better performer, it could not compare in style and features at the same price point. At any rate, press reviews calling the interior spartan are off mark. The interior is not overly crowded with "stuff," and at the same time does not fall prey to the minimalism of the Scandinavian designs.
I have noticed a lot of the Ford talk. For one, I am grateful that a private manufacturer bought Jaguar. After all, it makes no sense for a socialist government to own a luxury car company. I would admit to certain similarities between the aft ends of the X-Type and the Taurus, but I'm not sure that anyone has research the chicken-and-egg of the issue. The Taurus, until recently, had a much more tapered and bubble looking tail. The first time I saw it redesigned with the chrome plinth and etc. was after I first saw an S-Type for the first time. My impression was that Ford was trying to update the Taurus image to look more Jag-like, which is fair enough. Perhaps someone knows which model came first?
I have noticed only one design feature thus far which I believe could use some improvement. The buttons on the climate control panel could be a bit more touch sensitive. They require considerable depression before activating. This, however, is minor.
I had not previously heard that the 2004 model would have some redesigned features. I will be curious to see them, but I do not regret buying when I did as the prices are getting very competitive on the 2003's. Also, looking like an "old-timer" is hardly a stigma in a Jaguar. Some of the Continental models that pride themselves on more aggressive, less traditional design could not make the same claim.
The talk of an R labeled X-Type with 330hp is quite interesting. At 35,000 quid or about $56,000 USD, I would suspect it will remain a novelty as one could be in a larger model for a comparable price. Still, a desire for all that horsepower might attract AWD fans if AWD is not integrated in the larger models.
The only hesitation I had about the X-Type at all was about mechanical reliability. Please let me know if there is anything in particular for which I should be on guard.
That price includes A-Plan ($2,600 less), $1000 Customer Bonus Cash, $4500 Retail cash for the 2003 2.5L X-Type and $2000 for a Manual transmission car.
Not a bad deal for $20K. I would suggest calling quickly since manual cars are hard to find.
For non Ford employees, start negotiating.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rp/03xtype.htm
Notable Quotes:
+ "Sumptuous Connolly leather seats, walnut trim pieces and British Racing Green gauges add to the Jaguar charm, but it is the tapered tail, distinctive hood ripples and the leaping jaguar hood sculpture that will ensure that no one will mistake this car for anything but a Jaguar."
+ "The car itself appears to be much bigger than it actually is as the side profile is long and lean."
+ "Okay, I get it already. This is a Jaguar."
+ "Jaguar offers three distinct option packages for the X-Type - Premium, Sport and Weather - in an effort to meet, and in some cases, beat, the competition in this very competitive segment."
+ "I had the chance to get to know the X-Type during a period plagued with spring showers, and I must admit, Jaguar’s Traction 4 all-wheel-drive system kept the car exactly where I wanted it, tracking confidently through tight corners with just a hint of under-steer. This, along with the confident ABS-brakes, left me with full confidence in the capabilities of the Jaguar’s package."
+ "The 3.0-litre V6 has plenty of pulling power but torque is most evident at launch. While not as smooth in delivery as in some of its rivals, the car’s power is readily available when needed. The throaty growl emitted from the sport-tuned exhaust was music to my ears, and is very distinctive."
+ "The passenger cabin feels very spacious as large windows and slim roof pillars combine to offer outstanding visibility."
+ "Amazing structural rigidity as well as large four-wheel disc brakes with advanced ABS capabilities represents a good first defense in the safety arena, but the addition of the Traction 4 system and available Dynamic Stability Control should help keep things under control. In the event of an impact, dual-stage frontal airbags are supplemented by front and rear side curtain airbags, another first for a Jaguar model."
+ "The X-Type is an excellent alternative to the waves of Audis, BMW, Volkswagens and Volvos that seem to populate the highways and parking lots of the Canadian landscape, not to mention the endless parade of Japanese entries that compete for your attention in this category. It represents an elegant design with classic Jaguar style, albeit with the benefits of all-wheel-drive and all the modern bells and whistles. Its convenient size, sensible option packages and a competitive pricing structure makes the X-Type worth a long, hard look."
See! Everything I've been saying is true! Man I want that wooden steering wheel in my car. I guess I'll just have to retrofit it.
AWD is still amazing for those still looking at vehicles.
From my experience I would call the 800 Jaguar roadside assistance number. They should send a flat bed to pick up your car and take to your dealer. The dealer should also flat bed you a loaner ( a comparable vehicle) and then swap the vehicles at your convenience. You shouldn't even have to leave your home. My car has been serviced numerous times, at my discretion I've never been inconvenienced. The dealer will send a loaner and pick-up at my home or office. For an emergency like yours Jaguar roadside assistance will coordinate a pick-up
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=749
In the Entry-Level Luxury class, of which the X-Type belongs, the top three are:
1. Lexus ES300*
2. Infiniti I30
3. Acura TL
No Jags to be found in the top three of the Mid-Luxury or Premium Luxury rankings, either. For the complete rankings, you have to pay for the report, or find it leaked somewhere on the web.
*Just another reason why I'm not an X-Type owner any more. ;-)
*Glad to hear it. We're just as happy in cars that actually handle and have styling ;-) Does your new dealer take care of your notification of insurance? :-P
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An X-type modified by Jaguar's Special Vehicle Operations Group was spotted recently. It is thought to feature a beefed up 3.0 liter engine (not the R) and huge wheels along with redone air intakes and a host of other performance upgrades. If the car makes it to production, it should be out early next year.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Jaguar has now begun placing "AWD" badges on the trunk/bootlids of the X-type, to announce the car's superior capabilities in dry and wet conditions. Many people still are unaware of the car's standard AWD, and are quite pleasantly surprised to discover it. For many owners, it was a deciding factor in selecting the car. This will allow more people to be aware of the standard permanent AWD.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Jaguar is now racing X-types...
...go to the link below for more info, as well as a photo of the lean, mean, (British Racing) green machine!
http://www.crash.net/news_detail.asp?championship_id=26&news_- id=70664&language_id=1
We all know the PLUSES of this car. Beautiful exterior, interior, AWD. But the latest edition of Automobile magazine (where they compare convertible autos BMW, Z, Porche, S2000) gave it a very bad review after having the car for one year. In fact, it was a plain horrible review. SO bad was the X reliability, that they had to install a new transmission at only 28K miles.
Obviosuly I am a little concerned in dropping that kind of cash in an auto that (as beautiful as it may be) can be problematic.
Any thoughts out there? Should I wait a few more years before I consider an X?
Here is something interesting to consider. When the S-Type first came out, it was not necessarily loved by the media. It got some pretty bad reviews about the relibility and it's Fordness.. but if you look at the S-Type now, it is one of the most desirables autos in the mid luxury class. And it has some very good reviews.
This lends me to believe that maybe the X needs a few more years (like the S) before it comes into age? It's still such a good looking machine!!
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Drumm...
I read, after the fact, the article in automobile magazine to which you refer. It is not heartening that the transmission had to be replaced and I have heard similar anecdotes of woe elsewhere. My hope is that the 2003's have some of the bugs worked out. I believe Automobile Magazine have an '02. In some respects, though, I found the article to be overly critical in a somewhat predetermined way.
I imagine that the '04 model year will be out in a few months. You may wish to wait for that.
Do take a look at the JD Powers link supplied by Jagboyxtype supra. The Japanese present the only great alternatives from the standpoint of reliability. The rest of the Europeans look a trifle shabby compared to Jaguar.
I am seriously leaning into purchasing the X-Type in Spring, maybe Fall. I have a very easy drive to work and back, so I don't predict being too hard on the X (if I purchase one)
Personally, I have known X owners that have been happy with the car, even thought they have openly confessed that the car had a few bugs and perhaps is a little overpriced for what you get.
Well anyways, thank you for your thoughts guys..
Drumm
You'll read some horror stories on the Internet, and stories about how great the cars are, and stories about how Jaguar fixed or replaced problematic cars. These kinds of forums have been created to help people with problems with their cars, or just to answer questios about certain models. Many times, an unhappy owner will use the net to flame a company or their car for problems they may have had, and then other people without problems or who had the same problem solved will try to help. But let's see, the largest single forum for Jaguars is the JagTalk site, which has about 5,168 members, a majority of which are X-type owners. The X-type sells anywhere from about 2,200 - 3,000 cars per month, making the entire membership of these Jaguar forum sites to be at most, equivalent to about two months of sales of the car. Yet Jaguar has sold over 100,000 units of the X-type (which is actually very exclusive compared to mass market competitors who sell into the half millions every year). So only about 5% at most of all X-type owners actually participate in these kinds of message boards. My theory is that with such a low number of people on these boards, it means that most people have been pretty happy with their cars and would just assume drive them than chat about them on the net. Those very few people with serious problems will flame and rant on the net, but they only make up at most half of the 5% of X-type owners who actually are on the net, about 2.5%. That says to me that most owners aren't having as much trouble as a few loud unhappy people have.
Then, there is the issue of what I call bogus problems. One list of problems an owner posted somewhere included items such as a seatbelt that had become slightly twisted in the clip of the buckle (well then use your hand and untwist the darn thing!) and too much brake dust on the font wheels (ever wash the car?) - and that was why he had to try and file a lemon suit with the car company! There was a certain person here who was angered by Jag and his dealer that they didn't manage his insurrance for him! How dare they! I guess some people's idea of Jaguar ownership differ from my own, but my perspective is that you get a sleek, stylish car that has Olde World British luxury and character mixed in with some of the most cutting edge technology of today, and the very best balance of performance handling and a luxurious ride out there, and with the X-type, actual useable interior space and a huge trunk to boot! Have any problems? Well, Jaguar takes care of them under the 4-year 50,000 mile warranty which includes free services. Well, I don't see much to complain about right there.
I've had my X-type since March 9th 2002 - I remember the exact date - and since then there have been no problems with my car - period. With such an early build, I've experienced the evolution of the car first hand, as Jaguar constantly refits every car that comes in for service with the latest computer coding for the engine, transmission, lighting, and every other system on the car you can think of. This essentially keeps all the cars up to date, so 2002 cars get the codes from the 2003 cars and beyond, thereby allowing every car to perform to the standards of the new ones.
Finally, there have been some reviews that scream of horrible quality, such as the Automobile long-term review - and if the car needed two transmissions, etc. under my watch - I would have given it even lower ratings myself. However, I find that usually such results can be attributed to the drivers of the car. In another review I read, the idiot drivers plowed their X-type into a high curb at a high speed, and ended up breaking some pieces under the car. Jaguar replaced the broken parts for free under the warranty, yet the reviewers gave the car a bad writeup because without the warranty, the car might have been very expensive to repair (I love speculation, but the facts and reality of the matter are they got their car repaired for free and it didn't cast them a dime, despite all the damage being their fault). In Edmunds' own long term review of a Vanden Plas, they nearly totalled the car once, and then crashed it again, finally giving the car a bad review because it was "never the same again" after the two devastating crashes. My gosh! These are the people writing the "professional" reviews for the cars, and yet they still need to learn how to drive! I suspect in many cases that more is going on and the fault of the reviewers when their cars have failings than they write in their reviews - wouldn't want the world to know you can barely drive the car with out hitting curbs or other cars. Another example: the so-called professional reviewers of Car and Driver recently did a review of their CVT transmission Audi. The CVT normally would have no engine "creep," but Audi programmed one into their CVT equipped cars to make them more like traditional automatic transmissions. You can easily find this information in a brochure for the cars - I have one of the brochures to prove it. Yet somehow this escaped the auspicious eyes of the C&D reviewers, and they said that the Audi had some horrible problem that must be inspected, since a CVT car should not have an "odd creep"! They sure are knowlegible about the cars they review - time to get more edumacated!
So more on topic here, Jaguar has been exceedingly reliable despite the bad reputation that arose back in the 70's and has haunted them ever since. Yes, there are some problem cars in every batch, but the overwhelming majority are problem free, and the 2003 cars and the surveys are showing it. The average age of a Jaguar on the road in 2000 was just under 20 years old - the cars last a long time and are very solid (X-type has the most rigid structure in its class, in fact) when not driven off cliffs like some reviewers seem to be doing to them. Latest reviews (three that I know of and have saved copies of) have even been saying things about the "Lexus-like" build quality of the X-types they've tested, so I think it's a pretty sure thing that the cars are just as reliable (or better according to the big surveys) than anything else out there.
From the JDP survey results:
"'Conventional wisdom said that dependability was the property of the Japanese and Europeans,' said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. ->
Other notable performances in the 2003 results include Subaru and GMC, which both performed considerably better when measured at three years in VDS than when they were measured at 90 days of ownership. At the other end of the spectrum is Mercedes-Benz, which experiences the largest quality gap between initial quality and long-term quality measurements. Also deteriorating more rapidly than the average vehicle are Audi and Volvo."
You see, Jaguar has the bad reputation, but performs "well above the industry average" in quality and long-term dependability. However, marques known for being solid with vault-like build quality, such as Mercedes and Volvo, have been deteriorating faster than most anything else on the road. Look at the facts, and Jaguar has more good qualitites than most anything else out there.
P.S. - I drive my car pretty hard, racing around everywhere I go, and the car takes it easily. They are not fragile or delicate and can pretty much take whatever gets thrown at them.
low:
http://www.jaguarcars.com/video/xtype/xtype_source_wm_low.wmv
high:
http://www.jaguarcars.com/video/xtype/xtype_source_wm_high.wmv
Note the subtle changes to the look of the car, including the clear indicator lights, new trunk release - I like it - (the 2004 S-type, which also gets a diesel, had its rear restyled in the same fashion), etc. The wheels are the "R" wheels. The car is absolutely stunning. I used to think it was just a good looking Jaguar, but now, having seen it moving around on the road for almost three minutes, I'm convinced that it's the best looking car in its class and that its style even outclasses most everything else on the road too.
Also for your viewing pleasure, the same person who found the video above also found one of the original X-type advertisments. I don't personally care for this one very much, as it's a bit abstract and the car is shown through some weird lenses, skewing its proportions. It's only 59 seconds long. Not bad, but it is more of a "lifestyle" ad than one that shows the car.
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/jconawa/xtype_winhigh.asf
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81305855/81306335LfKzlt
above: As you can see by the previous generation Jaguar symbol featured on the cover, this data has been collected for quite some time now.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81305855/81308230MszPKt
above: There are many photographs that are arranged in historical order.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81305855/81308478KpLzKz
above: This first book also features TONS of information; it is pretty much a "databank" of all that I know about the car and it features much of my research - mind you, this is only volume 1, which has been completed (i.e. put in correct order, etc. - the Britanica statement was no joke). The photos accompanied by the information on the pages of data that you see above are from "inside Jaguar." See the structure of the car in the upper lefthand corner of the page? I'll just say that the X-type truly does only share 6 hardpoints with the Mondeo and the rest of the chassis is all Jaguar - I have the photos (see them) to prove it too! The green areas show areas of the X-type's structure that were re-enforced with the use of the ultra highstrength steel found in the roof of the Volvo XC70 SUV, which is practically uncrushable - so is the X-type, and that's also why it has the most rigid structure in its class.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81305855/81309530DmVsNS
above: I told you it was pretty thick.
Well, that was just a tiny preview. I have 17 snapshots of the same rather small resolution of parts of the book at my webshots homepage, along with over 100 photos of my car. I need to update the page with the latest photos of my car, so I'll do that soon.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jagboyxtype
Anyway, all of my research is being documented, so it will never be lost. And that's why I have so much information about the X-type. If you need to know anything about the car, I probably have the answer somewhere, if not in that finalized version of volume 1, then in another volume that's still being put together. Just so you know how much information I've collected about the X-type, volume 1 is pretty much just the introduction of the car - it barely spans into 2002 and the diesels and changes for 2004 probably won't be found in a final volume until vol. number 8 or so.
X-type's competitors also all had for the most part solid performances, but the BMW 3-Series aparently did so poorly in areas that the NHTSA had to "note safety concerns not reflected in the star rating" for it and the Honda Element, indicated by the"*"'s by their ratings:
"In accordance with NHTSA policy to note safety concerns not reflected in the star rating, today’s release highlights two vehicles recently tested:
During the side impact test of the Honda Element, the head of the left rear passenger dummy struck the side upper interior structure. Measurement of the impact indicates a higher likelihood of serious head trauma.
During the side impact test of the BMW 325, the force measured on the driver’s pelvis indicated a high likelihood of pelvic injury."
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?ye- ar=2003&filename=pr31-03.html
The racing X-type will debut July 29th!
Here was the initial article:
http://www.crash.net/news_detail.asp?championship_id=26&news_- id=70664&language_id=1
Cannot wait for the faster Jag engine to come to the states!
Wondering if Jaguar is offering 0 percent or close to that for up to 5 years? Want to lock in a great deal before interest rates go up. Trying to find my wife a replacement for her 323ia. She was interested in BMW (3 Series), MB (C Class), Infiniti (G35), Acura (TSX), and Lexus (IS300), but they aren't offering great incentives in my area. Dealers holding for MSRP and their financing companies aren't offering anything close to 0 percent. (She doesn't like Cadillac CTS or Lincoln LS, both of which have great deals on price and financing.)
She'd consider a Jag X-type (only in BRG). Noticed Jaguar aggressively promoting leasing deals. My local Jag dealer's ads only discuss leasing. But I don't want to lease. Got me thinking that Jaguar might have some incentives for buyers. Only interested if I can get thousands off MSRP (pay at or below invoice) and 0 percent financing.