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Car_man posted there:
I would be happy to estimate what your lease payment should be like on this car if you let me know what its full MSRP (including the destination charge) and selling price are.
---------- See, Car_man, but I did it backwards. I didn't first negotiate the selling price of the car (before turning to the leasing option), nor am I interested in it's price now.... My bottom line is my MONTHLY PAYMENT.
I simply turned to 3 local dealers (and 2 leasing companies), gave them the same info:
Civic LX AT
36 month lease
12K miles/year
No money down (except first payment and license)
My credit score is 780 (yes, it's very high)
---- And asked for a monthly payment, out the door.
The offers I got from 2 dealerships were both "in the low $300s". The best I got from the third dealership was $289, promising to get the car with the color I want "in a week or two". Not bad.
....Then, on Friday, one leasing company (recommended by a friend who's been leasing cars from them for years) offered the car for $249, but with a late January delivery (which is ok with me). They did not ask for any money down, nor any signed agreement on my part...
I think the latest offer is really a great offer, seems legit, and I am taking it.
...Do you think I wrong, Car_man?
Still, there are people like yourself who will buy it. I would try one of the mags that show a photo of the car.
Be aware, a car like this will attract a lot of "non-buyers".
Price - $18964.65
doc fee - $349.50
TTL - $499.35
OTD - $19813.50
According to Edmunds, it seems ok..
thx
bama
What's this thing with "doc fee"??? Any dealership can decide how much they charge for "doc fee"? One charges $50 te other charges $400?
Why, what prevents them from charging $1,000?
Isn't there a LIMITATION on this charge?
It was the same at every dealer that I spoke to in the area. And I spoke to about 5 - 6 different dealers.
Price - $18964.65
doc fee - $349.50
TTL - $499.35
OTD - $19813.50
According to Edmunds, it seems ok..
thx
bama
Bama, I think you got a similar deal to me for the most part (assuming you got the 5-speed automatic trans). I got the same car, and same COLOR. I got a little over $1,000 off MSRP. Mine broke down like this:
$18,950 (including the protection package - retail is $365)
$53.32 Doc fee
$497.25 Sales Tax
$15 County Tax
$80 License and Title Fee
$19,595 OTD price
So did I, few months ago, buying my Accord. I paid $55.
That's $55 compared to $400 to 500...............?!?!?
$500 for DOCUMENTATION FEES?!
Are dealers in Florida having a hard time typing up documents? Don't they use calculators to put numbers together? Are they Suffering from dyslexia?
Or they're just MILKING customers for more money...
...Makes you wondering...
This ***helps*** pay for some of the admin costs we have.
If someone is charging 500.00, it's mostly profit.
Oh, I just love the arguments the local salesmen here give that "it helps pay some of our admin costs, lights, etc". And I say "It's all additional revenue that goes to paying business related expense. Anything left over is profit."
Toyota charged me 269. I just incorporated into my offer.
You are probably one of the few who would whine about it!
It's just that I get a chuckle listening to some 2-bit salesman who clearly has never taken an accounting course tell me about expenses, revenue, and profit.
And before you fall off your chair, I don't feel you or any of the folks in the biz here are in the same boat as the 2-bit salesmen I mentioned.
Yes I am one of the MAJORITY that whine about being fee'ed to death, not just doc fees. I was talking about a $500 fee that doesn't show up until I see the contract and YOU'RE talking about a $35 doc fee that's disclosed up front.
And what's sickening is, if you happen to live in Florida (and several other states, I guess), you're screwed, because the dealers there have apparently formed a CARTEL and miracleously all are charging $400-$500 as Doc Fee... As if in Florida you need a PHD to type up a sales contract.
This is called MAFIA-STYLE CORRUPTION.
2) Consider any document fee part of the price of the car.
3) Adjust your offer accordingly.
Just because Florida dealers charge $500 for a document fee, and California dealers charge $55, doesn't mean that Florida buyers are paying more for their cars...
I"m also pretty sure it has nothing to do with the Mafia... If you don't like the price, just say no...
regards,
kyfdx
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And what's sickening is, if you happen to live in Florida (and several other states, I guess), you're screwed, because the dealers there have apparently formed a CARTEL and miracleously all are charging $400-$500 as Doc Fee... As if in Florida you need a PHD to type up a sales contract.
This is called MAFIA-STYLE CORRUPTION.
Of course.....they have to use those hurricane-proof documents down there!
Warner
If you and they agree on an OTD price, I really don't care how they arrive at it...Charge me $1000 for a DOC fee if you want...(but rest assured that I will be asking for an extra $850 off the price of the car..
Luxury dealerships charge $599.00 or more... figure the odds!
Bottom line for us that live in Florida is.... just take that money figure out from the price of the car. It all works out in the end, if you know what you are doing!
I live in NY and bought a high end used car in FL that I found via the web. Since we don't have these $500.00 fees in NY, it was almost a deal killer. The dealer ended up lowering the price of the car by that amount, rather than just remove the doc. fee.
2021 Toyota Venza Limited Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
It took 6 months of riding on a bus to and from from work, sometimes it took up to 2 hours (including the walking and the waiting time) before I took my Honda Civic 06 home. The saga of my buying experience is well recorded in these forums. And of course all of your help is appreciated.
I spend so much time in my car going to work and play and doing personal errands, that the car feels like a mistress to me. You guys would not take a mistress unless you fall in love, right? Remember how hard it is to solicit love? It is an emotional thing. Now I have a romance with the car.
I had an open mind when I started looking for a new car. Since my last car, the Saturn 92 SL died.(That car earned the highest recommendation by Consumer Report in its class that year. And I had to wait two months for it.) And my romance with her lasted 13 years. But I decided not to revive her because it would spoil my memory of her in the flower of her youth.
After that I looked at all the cars in the Dealer's Alley, one by one, in 10th Avenue in Manhattan, New York City.
I looked at cars that were high born and from aristocratic familes as well as farmers' daughters. The only dealer I did not go to was the Rolls Royce Dealer.(It is located on the Swanky East Side.)
The Honda 06 Civic was the only car that I fell in love with. Boy, the courtship was hard and long. But my baby is with me now.
When it comes to romance. An open mind helps, but one must follow his heart.
Thanks,
Manny
Civic LX auto – Blue
16900.00 ( car + dealer fees + delivery)
tax was around 700.00
That’s all. And Thank you all for the info that help me to make my deal. By the way.. I’m very happy with the car
Civic LX auto – Blue
16900.00 ( car + dealer fees + delivery)
tax was around 700.00
That’s all. And Thank you all for the info that help me to make my deal. By the way.. I’m very happy with the car
Bingo!!! Just ask up front before the negotiations begin what the dealer or doc. fees are and adjust your offer accordingly.
Not exactly the solution...
A. Car makers don't sell their cars cheaper to FL dealers, so if a certain car's real invoice is $xx,xxx, and if theoratically a consumer can negotiate the price to that price (the dealer makes no money on the car itself), he STILL ends up paying HUNDREDS of Dollars more in Florida...
B. the AVERAGE consumer is educated to accept Doc Fee as a non-negotiable, a given, just as taxes are a given and can not be negotiated.
So when the average consumer buys a car in FL, he has no reason to suspect that what's called Doc Fee is really nothing but another TRICK to make the dealer richer.
The bottom line is, CARS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE IN FLORIDA. And maybe other states too (South Carolina?)...
Cars don't cost more in Florida... Or Texas, or California... or anywhere else...
The price of the car is the price you negotiate, including all fees... You can negotiate the same price in Florida, that you negotiate everywhere else.. including the fee...
There are plenty of posts here on Edmunds, from people in other states, that traveled to Florida to buy their cars, because they got better deals there..
regards,
kyfdx
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But since MOST do not, and MOST regard Doc Fee as one more kind of regulated TAX, MOST buyers are not aware of the truth.
Besides, when the average American negotiates the price of a car, he DOES NOT negotiate any of the add-ons. Neither the tax, nor the destination charge... and not the Doc Fee.
So in reality, people are being screwed in Florida. If I pay $55 in Illinois, and for the same exact car you pay $500 in Florida -- you're screwed.
Why do people travel to Florida to buy cars? If that is true, then I have to admit -- I don't know. They certainly have no reason to, unless their dealers (in Alabama? Georgia? South Carolina?) are charging them $1,000 Doc Fee.
Maybe they should all travel to Chicago instead?
Maybe they should all travel to Chicago instead?
And while they're here, they can hone up on their snow driving skills, right mamamia? I'm glad we missed most of it today!
Warner
So, while you think that the majority of Americans are, on average, uninformed and poor negotiators.. they remain blissfully happy (as do the dealers that take advantage of them).
For the rest of us.. We pay the price that we negotiate.. I've never been "screwed" on a car deal.. I've always paid exactly the price that I've agreed to.. High or low, it was my choice... No one else to blame.
regards,
kyfdx
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Well, you must agree that MOST Americans do not come here to discuss what they should be paying for their next car.
Most Americans are NOT aware that add-ons like Destination Charge and Doc Fee are NOT regulated and set in stone, like sales tax is. When the average American negotiates the price of a car (and MANY actually DO NOT do that), they take the add-ons as a given, like additional taxes.
I've never been "screwed" on a car deal.. I've always paid exactly the price that I've agreed to. ...And then a week later you meet a guy who bought the same exact car, at the same time, but from another dealer (or even worse, from the SAME dealer...), who paid $1,000 less... Does that make you a happy guy?
Negotiating a price of a car is one thing. Adding frivolous fees ($500 for typing up couple documents) as if they were "taxes" -- is another.
I believe they were talking about the excessive "doc" fees that people in Florida are being asked to pay.
Warner
The cost of these cars to all dealers are the same ...period! It doesn't matter if your in Florida or California.....some states regulate on how much doc fee can be charged....Florida is just not one of them.....I use to live in Chicago for 3 years and have bought multiple cars there as well as here....the solution is so simple.....do your homework....in the end it all works out....But I will tell you this.....if you visit the many different forums on this website, for all of the make and models, you will see people are flocking to Florida to buy cars....especially Luxury line cars.....if you don't believe me take at look at the Lexus and Acura forums....and if the people that are coming here to buy cars didn't think it was worth it....then why are they coming.....it's easy....PRICE! Many people are buying cars down here....buying a $49 dollar airline ticket on Southwest airlines.....and driving home in their new cars....there must be a reason for this? The two other parts of this country people flock to when buying a car is California and NJ.....why? Price....it's not rocket science....is it really worth the travel to save xxxx amount of dollars....and to some the answer is yes.....to prove my point....stroll over to the Lexus IS350 forum....someone who lives in Bellvue, Washington purchase a car from a Sarasota, FLorida dealer and is having it shipped to Washington....even with the additional shipping costs...he is still saving $1500 bucks! Is it worth it? It is to him....bottom line....different strokes for different folks!
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm skeptical. No one is posting deals below invoice and you say you got yours for $200 below invoice? Was there a trade? Any other fees besides tax tag & title?
I mean, WHY? We can't keep these in stock!
May have been able to do better if I waited but needed a safe, reliable car for my daily 50 mile round trip commute. My lowest quote before I took this one was about $20100 OTD with "dealer-installed options" like pinstriping that I did not want.
Very happy with it in the month that I've had it!
That includes pasting in portions of emails that you have received which include the salespersons contact info (name, email, phone, etc.)