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Comments
Reminds me - my local dealer still has more than a dozen '05 Accents hatches, most manual, a couple automatic, all base models with just A/C as an option. I wonder how low he would go on those....there is a rebate from Hyundai too.
When I said the new Aveo would undercut the others, I meant strictly in base trim. I expect it to be the only subcompact by this time next year that you can actually find on dealer lots and buy for $10K or less.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
ABS and side bags I would gladly skip as long as the price were low low low. A/C I gotta have, and won't Hyundai make it standard on the next Accent? That is the one ace in the hole the Yaris has: A/C will be standard even on the cheapest versions. But in the Yaris, you have to go aftermarket or buy the $800 package to play your CDs - don't know what the '07 Accent has as standard sound system. I know the leftover '05s my dealer has all have a cassette player.
Now if I were going to spend more, then I like the look of the Accent SE very much, BUT I would also strongly consider a Fit for that money, and the only question would be how happy I was without the moonroof (is it the Accent SE that has the moonroof?).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I won't forgo ABS and side bags on my next new car because it will belong to my daughter eventually.
If I decide to go ahead in the next year or two, it is running 60/40 buying super-basic vs buying totally loaded. If I buy super-basic, I will probably lean toward the Yaris, as I just can't imagine talking myself into an Aveo, and it sounds like the Accent might not get to super-cheap with A/C (but we will see).
If I go fully loaded, then it sounds like it will be the Fit Sport vs the Accent SE. In all of this, the Versa is the dark horse - I don't usually get into Nissans because their quality and reliability are too unpredictable, but I will certainly take a look when they finally arrive.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Take a stripped Canadian Fit DX (about $12,000US), add a manual sunroof, aftermarket cruise control and latched rear windows.
Is it just me? I found the driver door opening on the Rio5 a mite bit too small.
I really hope the new Accent doesn't use the same shifter, because that would put it out of the running, and it seems like a good deal with leather touches, fogs and moonroof, for under $15K.
As for mwqa, I like your idea! You get just what you want without paying for a bunch of stuff you don't. Me, I can't quite get over my long-standing mistrust of aftermarket sunroofs and cruise. In the 80s both were major headaches for their owners sometimes not long after they had been installed. I am sure these days they must be a lot more reliable, and less leak-prone in the case of the sunroofs.
Also, because I trade fairly frequently, I have to be mindful of resale. Cars without power packages are hard to resell (as are stick shifts), so if I have one equipped like that, I need it to be real inexpensive to start with. $13,000 or more for such a car would be more than I were willing to pay. But $10,000 for such a car would be OK.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am worried about aftermarket parts and would much rather get the same configuration from the dealer. However, from the way they bundle their packages, it doesn't seem that they want my business.
Resale value considerations would encourage me to get AC, too.
I trying to keep the cost of the car as low as possible because my Dad is encouraging me to buy his 3 year old Matrix at the 'trade in' price - a great deal, except that it's more car than I need.
If only the same selection of small cars was available second hand!
It's kind of funny actually: the A/C is standard on the upcoming $11K base Yaris, but NOT on the $15K base Tacoma short cab! Of course, Toyota builds every Tacoma with the "optional" A/C to get around that problem.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In most of the U.S., it is very useful for either cooling (the southern half) or for defogging (all the areas that get really humid in the summer - Midwest, eastern seaboard).
Anyway, the environmental angle is an important one, but they did go to the non-ozone-damaging refrigerant (R134) more than a decade ago now...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
R134? Oh, yes...the deadly carcinogen. Not a win-win situation for anyone.
So the amount of cancer-causing R134a we might leak into the air over the life of the car might be as nothing compared to all the pollution that went into building the darn thing, with or without A/C!
The only way to satisfy those concerns is to never buy a car again, because even if you buy used, your purchase has probably spurred someone else to buy new, which causes the same damage as if you had bought new yourself. It's a conundrum.
But I placate my conscience by buying the car with the best gas mileage on the market. Last year, that was the Echo, excepting hybrids (millions of poisonous batteries into the waste stream) and diesels (particulate crap into the air, not to mention extremely high NOx emissions). At least I can keep greenhouse emissions from my transport to a minimum.
It looks like for MY 2007, the Yaris will hang onto that prize (highest FE in a straight gas car) for Toyota.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In fact, low emissions is one of the Yaris' main selling points. It compensates somewhat for the disappointing rear headroom, and lack of flat folding rear seats in the base trim.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060222/tc_nm/autos_honda_hybrid_dc
This car is so much better than our piece of garbage Plymouth Voyager we bought brand new in 1998.... that is the family vehicle, and it's a lemon!!
Hyundai makes reliable cars!
I hope this is helpful for all of you buying a cheap, used car. You get more for the money, and save on gas!
The only thing I would change would be Power windows/locks, but those are luxuries. It's a reliable and quiet vehicle whether going 25 MPH or 75 MPH! Great car, and surprisingly, it's a tough cookie! My co-worker accidentally rammed into it with her Blazer. Not one single scratch on my Accent. Her bumper fell off, and she had dents. She pushed my Accent back 4 feet, too! Things bounce off of it! (although I can't guarentee EVERYTHING will bounce off of it, don't try that on a daily basis!)
Anyway, looking for a small car that has a good turning radius, excellent foot room, and top-notch gas mileage? (oh, did I mention it's INEXPENSIVE?) GET THE ACCENT! You won't be sorry. I wasn't. I think next time I'll get an Elantra, which is one size larger. But, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE MY ACCENT!
Just take good care of yours, and you'll love it too!
Hyundai----- YOU GUYS SURE DO KNOW HOW TO MAKE A LONG-LASTING COMPACT CAR!
They make American automakers look like trash. :shades:
Just kidding good4U! I am glad you like your car so much. these little cars are great, and it would be cool if more people in the U.S. started realizing that.
Any idea what mileage you are actually getting?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It will be interesting to see how these cars fare in the IIHS crash tests.
Bottom line: For me personally, I have very little confidence in the NHTSA testing.
~alpha
It's clear that there were changes to the tested Camrys from 2002-2004; for example, the weight of the test cars went up almost 200 pounds between 2003 and 2004. Also, it is possible that one year, a score was right on the borderline between two star ratings, and the next year the score was almost the same but it fell into a different star category. This might have happened between 2003 and 2004 for example. The 2003 front side TTI was 73 and for 2004 it was 70. That might have been just enough to put the 2004 into the 4-star classification. I've seen this kind of thing on the IIHS tests also. The line between classifications has to be drawn somewhere, and there's no such thing in these tests as "almost four stars" or "just squeaked into the Good category".
As to why the side impact score declined a lot between 2003 and 2004, maybe you could ask Toyota about that.
I prefer the IIHS testing myself, but we don't see very many cars get low scores on the NHTSA tests and then get high scores on the IIHS tests. The reverse does happen, though, which makes sense because the IIHS tests are more severe than the NHTSA tests.
I do not know about the methodology behind when NHTSA tests vehicles, but even ASIDE from the side impact, the Camry received varying between 4 and 5 stars in the frontal during those years as well. Now, if that WAS the case, the IIHS would have had to retest based on THEIR methodology.
"I prefer the IIHS testing myself, but we don't see very many cars get low scores on the NHTSA tests and then get high scores on the IIHS tests. The reverse does happen, though, which makes sense because the IIHS tests are more severe than the NHTSA tests."
Ok, well that pretty much sums up why the NHTSA tests clearly dont provide a full picture.
IMO, the frontal tests compliment each other as the IIHS has stated- the NHTSA test is demanding of restraint systems, and the IIHS test demanding of structure (and restraints). However, the NHTSA side impact and IIHS impact do not have this type of relationship; the NHTSA test does not expose weaknesses that the IIHS test does not, while the converse is true.
I just dont think I'd really be concerned with the NHTSA side ratings for the Accent and Rio....
~alpha
P.S. As I noted, it was the test car weights that changed on the Camry. That is curious in itself, because I would think that Toyota would want the crash test car to be the lightest weight possible, all else being equal, since weight plays a role in the frontal impact results.
With regard to the Camry weights, your comment was
"It's clear that there were changes to the tested Camrys from 2002-2004; for example, the weight of the test cars went up almost 200 pounds between 2003 and 2004."
Your statement led me to believe you were expressing changes made to the Camry resulted in a weight increase, and affected the ratings. If I misread it, I apologize, but I feel this is a logical interpretation.
"OK, show me any car equipped with side bags and curtains (as the '06 Accent and Rio are) that got three stars on a NHTSA side impact test and also got a "Good" score on the IIHS side impact test. I haven't found any yet."
Touche, point taken.
~alpha
Perhaps it's not physiologically possible to pass their test with a small rig. They are people who probably drive the large GM SUV's and pick-em-up trucks and worry excessively about getting into an accident all of the time.
Yikes. I say this: extra driving tests for your types. Forget about the stupid tests.
The Rio LX and Rio5 remain on my futures list, irregardless of any Hollywood trumped-up safety test.
Good driving can do wonders for safety. I will always think that. If I'm smutted out by a large Detroit pick-em-up truck I'll die instantly, anyway, so I won't have to wonder, wait and worry about some silly little things that don't add up to nothing, will I? I take the Tom Petty stance from 'Here Comes My Girl' off of the 'Damn the Torpedoes' album on this one.
Safety tests are for the crappy drivers and the worry warts.
Isn't it interesting that I love the lineup of Kia cars that don't do excessively well at these tests? Humm.
Give me one good extendo-thought reason why I should worry about those tests, after considering the comments I've already made here?
Then tell me the Super Bowl wasn't tampered with this year. What a travesty of justice that affair was.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Seems I end up liking the cars with average crash test scores...the Rio5 and Focus ZX5 hatchbacks. Neither are all that impressive in that regard. My Escort ZX2 did pretty well in a side-impact crash...but that was being hit by a Honda CRX. Dished my door in, scratched the Honda. Body shop had to get a door off a junked ZX2...came out well though.
I still am impressed with the Rio5 for my next car...
Todd in Beerbratistan
The 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 is running great and the better ghastly mileage of the Rio5 or Rio LX sedan will just have to wait a period of...ummm...several months, as far as I can tell.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I agree--safety tests are for the crappy drivers--who are aiming for my car. As for worry warts... how about if you just keep on obsessing about that red Rio5 on your dealer's lot, and let others obsess about the safety of themselves and their families.
Give me one good extendo-thought reason why I should worry about those tests, after considering the comments I've already made here?
Well, there is obviously nothing no one else needs to say to you about this "silly little thing", because you aren't worried about your safety or that of your wife or other passengers in your car.
Re Tom Petty... do you know how much obsession and effort goes into crash protection in race cars? I wonder why, since without it the driver will probably die instantly in a crash and they won't have to wonder, wait, and worry about those silly little things that add up to nothing.
Re doing well in crash tests with a small rig... take a look at this:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=300
Yaris 4 door base 4A including:
Power Pkg (ABS w/EBD, alloys, power windows, doorlocks, mirrors, cruise control, tachometer, upgraded interior trim, AM/FM CD with MP3/WMA capability/aux audio jack)
All Weather Guard pkg (heavy duty rear defogger, rear heater ducts, etc)
Remote Keyless Entry
Side and Side Curtain Airbags
$15,865 (includes $580 destination).
That strikes me as pretty darn reasonable.
~alpha
[In Philadelphia, the Sonata is priced by carsdirect.com at $17,256, a far cry from $15.8K. Help me find the additional $1500.]
Addtionally, you're assuming that the Yaris is going to sell at sticker for a long time. At invoice, that Yaris is another grand less, around $14,700, and I dont think you'll find even the most discounted Sonata at that price.
I also don't see an Accent at $13,300 with that equipment on edmunds, carsdirect etc.
~alpha
What I am also comparing to the Yaris 4 door S with manual transmission is the Honda Fit Sport with manual. The Fit is $15600. The Yaris S 4 door (base 13900) with comparable equipment- Power Pkg with alloy wheels (+1350), Airbag Pkg (+650), Keyless (+230), Foglights (+110) puts it up to $16200. The Toyota is about $600 higher than the Honda.
The two are in the same ballpark, but neither is a great bargain at these MSRPs. I need 4 doors. I prefer a hatchback, but sadly there is no 5 door for the Yaris.
I also am considering the Sonata; compared to either the Fit or Yaris, it is a bargain. The fuel economy difference is big for me though.
Why are you only considering a Yaris S? If you spec out the base model, it will be cheaper than the Fit... Yaris S doesnt offer any performance improvements, its just a trim and appearance pkg, like the Corolla S. Interesting that Toyota takes a different route with the Camry and Av, though.
~alpha
~alpha
For a sedan with factory-installed front, side and side curtain airbags standard that is really a great price. In any color.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Sonata: check out the Sonata Prices Paid discussion, you will see several examples of Sonata I4 automatics under $16k. Here is typical pricing for my town right now:
Sonata GLS I4: $19,995
Less General rebate: - $500
Less HMFC rebate: - $1000
Less Auto Show discount: $500
Less Loyalty rebate: - $1000
Less discount: (assumes invoice pricing; some dealers are going below invoice) - $1500
Final price: $15,500
(Note that Toyota ususally does not offer an Auto Show discount in my area, but Hyundai has for many years.)
As for the Accent, all it takes is the current $1000 rebate and a discount to right around invoice to get the price around $13,300.
Of course, local market conditions vary. If the dealers in Philly won't give you a decent discount on the Sonata, try Fitzmall.
2) Nissan Versa
3) Kia Rio5
4) Toyota Yaris
5) Hyundai Accent
6) Dodge Caliber
7) Suzuki Reno
The Fit Sport was listed as such:
Highs: Overtly sporty handling, classy interior, quick-witted in all its moves.
Lows: Mediocre rear-three-quarter visability, no dead pedal
"What truly set the Fit apart was its handling-Not a pretense of handling but the real deal, with springs and struts that allowed one gentle rebound and no more, the only car here that felt happy storming the switchback. We later confirmed this when the Fit sailed through our lane change test 6 mph faster than anything else here-faster in fact, than a Corvette Z06."
The Verdict: The go-kart of economobiles.
Basically it wasn't even close, the Fit won the test by 25 points. The only other car that was given any cred was the Versa, which is supposed to have good ride quality and a nice back seat. The honda had the highest score in the following categories:
Driver comfort
Ergonomics
Fit and Finish
Interior styling
Exterior styling
1/4 mile acceleration
Fuel economy (tied with Yaris)
Engine NVH (noise vibration and harshness)
Transmission
Performance
Steering feel
Brake feel
Handling
Ride
Gotta-have-it-factor
Fun to drive
- Taken from C&D forum
The Rio5 came out surprisingly well... beat Toyota even. The main rub on the Rio5 seemed to be the stick shift. I've driven the automatic and it was pretty smooth, and peppy enough. Plus it returns better fuel economy than the stick. Same negative on the Accent, but it didn't have the hatch versatility and was also softer sprung than the Rio5... again, fine for commuting over pot-holed roads, not so good for canyon carving.
I find it very interesting that the article couldn't spare even a few words to note that the Accent and Rio5 (and I think the Reno) have the most adjustable driver's seats of the bunch, with a two-way height adjuster. They mentioned the down side of not having that feature--e.g. the Versa's front seat cushions were "flat"--but I find it odd they neglected to mention this important aspect of a car--driving position and comfort. Probably were too busy raving about how many ways the Fit's back seat adjusts.
I still think rating a car that has no dead pedal and no seat height adjuster tops in driver comfort and ergonomics is very odd. They also noted the Versa has a superior ride, so I am not sure how they could rate the Fit tops in ride.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
~alpha