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Lexus SC 430
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I'm new to this forum. I just bought a new deep blue SC 430 after looking at a couple of new and used ones. I also own a 1995 deep blue BMW 325 convertible. I've had to put a lot of money into that car over the years to keep the soft top mechanism working, so I was wondering if anyone has put out the dough for the extended warranty?
Thanks,
Orrin Davis
I purchased my 03 in January, so with my limited experience I will give you my opinions of ownership.
First of all I would also recommend you check clublexus.com. There is some excellent advice and opinions on ownership of the SC 430 on those boards.
mmob: You are right about the price. I paid 60K even for an 03 w/spoiler,run-flats,gold package, trunk mat, wheel locks and cargo net.
As for run-flats, I personally have no problem with them, although they do ride hard over rr tracks and similar surfaces. Otherwise on normal roads I have no complaints. However it has been said that the installation of Michelin Pilot Sports significantly improves the ride and handling.
You are absolutely right about the increase of tire pressure. There is a good discussion about that on the Club Lexus boards. Actually it is 38 psi when there is 20 degree temperature between the high and low each day for the season. The pressure then changes as the hi-lo ambient becomes less.
drodavis: Reference extended warranty. Yes, I bought one. Not because of the Lexus drivetrain, which I know will never fail, witness another owner the LS board with 300K on his and still going strong. But, rather because of the technical gadgetry. There are 12 motors in the top alone, the nav system,stereo, seat,steering and window adjustments. To say nothing of 18 separate computers on-board. So I paid 1.8K for a 7yr/100K "0" deductible warranty. Worth it? I don't know but I have piece of mind that everything will be covered for the next 7 yrs. If you don't plan to keep the car that long, then I wouldn't bother.
As for the car itself, it has been great. "0" problems, nothing wrong what-so-ever. Of course I haven't driven the car much, but as the weather improves I will be glad to post further reports on my experiences.
Hope this helps, and congratulations on your purchase, I know you will be very satisfied.
Ron
thanks for the reply.
My major concern is : after looking at the booklet that discusses what is covered ( a gazillion things on the 'platinum' plan) and what is not covered (everything that you expect will need service....oil, tires, wipers batteries, etc.)
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALL THOSE MOTORS AND COMPUTERS ARE REALLY COVERED BY THE PLAN??
Thanks,
drodavis ( Orrin)
True "consumables" are NOT covered. This is common for all extended warranties. However all mechanical and electrical components are covered. Further I discussed this with the service manager at my dealership. He has been service manager for 30 years (20 years Toyota and 10 years Lexus) and I have found him very credible. He stated that should anything go wrong during the warranty period it will be fixed for "0" cost. I specifically asked about the motors and computers and he assured me it was all covered.
To date I have not had an opportunity to put the warranty to the test but I have confidence in both Lexus and and the service manager at my dealership.
Ron
rims. This is one FINE looking car. The deal was
killer $45k with 30k miles including excellent and expensive Momo rims and the orig set of run flats on 18 inch rims.
I was seriously considering a new porsche boxster.I test drove both and no doubt the porsche is a true sportcar and easily much more athletic! However given Lexus reliability, MORE power and FAR more luxury (dollar for dollar) I think my decision was sound.
I hate the thought of spending 40-50K and having reliability and dealer issues (porsche does not always fare well here).
Much as I hate it.....I now have to find a home for our Miata.......a car we have loved dearly.
I'll post my sc430 impressions as they hit me
D
D
ENJOY
Ron
The previous owner had a 2003 SL500 next to this car in his garage (overlooking a 180 degree view of the pacific ocean!). While the mercedes may be a better driver on some levels.......I'll take the sc430 for it's better reliability, better looks (just my opinion) and $40,000 savings. I think the sc430 easily justifies it's considerable cost.
I did that once. Traded in a 3000GT Spyder in 99, and got a call from the new owner, asking if I had all that stuff. I did, and didn't really mind sending it to him. . . I was pleased to see that my old baby found a good home.
a porsche boxster (test drives) and to our 1999 miata. I bought it anyway based on comfort, luxuries and amenities galore and great ability to accellerate. I am also a lexus fan after my past experience with a 1993 ls400.
We just took our first lengthy drive to Big bear, CA. This car's reflexes are VERY reassuring. Taking the mountain curves fast was effortless and the brakes stop swiftly even on steep grades.
While the aural engine and exhaust sounds are muted, I definitely felt like I was in a superior sportcraft. Beating our best time down the mountain was further evidence that this car can be driven FAST and with confidence.
I imagine the 20" pirrelli's on this car improve handling.
Hope to hit the beaches next weekend with more top down experiences.
D
Add a bright blue color similar to the Spectra Blue Mica color formerly used on the GS and IS models.
Add a black cherry type color or use the existing one that the LS has.
How about a root beer bottle brownish/black metallic color. I am not a fan of browns but if this color was done right it would make this car look even more gorgeous than it is.
Charcoal grey? That too would look great.
Anyway, anybody have any suggestions please post and if there are any dealers lurking on here please let us know what colors will be available on the 04 SC
If you tweak it a little less orange, it will be too close to the same color to carry them both.
With what vehicle would you compare the SC's ride to?
How would you judge it's ride/handling balance? More ride?
Does it need a "L-Tuned" version?
Factory "Performance" tires?
What improvements would you make to it?
Ever test drive it vs. the Benz SL?
I, personally, think it is 2 SWEET!! Would like a TRUE "Sport" pkg on it, though.
the SL500. No doubt the Lexus would win or tie the value, luxury, power and refinement categories. The SL would probably be a superior
handler with a more sporting personality. But I ask again........given the similarity of these two cars in features, mission, prestige and even handling and power.............does the mercedes justify $40,000 more?????
But make no mistake ....This car would benefit greatly from an L-tuned suspension package that
could make this car a hands down winner.
Give Lexus some credit for taking great risk with the styling of this car ......like it or not..the car DOES have personality and is a departure from the more conservative lines found on previous Lexus cars!
D
But Lexus buyers will not head en mass to any MB showroom for the obvious reasons..............MB average reliability (or worse!) and much more often poor dealer satisfaction (certainly less than Lexus!). It is those attributes which draws buyers into Lexus showrooms!!
second............You would be "Lucky" to find greater than 50% of responses (not 99%) who prefer the styling of the CLK to the SC430. Many (if not most) LOVE the daring style of this Lexus!
Finally add up the price of a LOaded CLK500 (with best sound system and GPS, xenon etc) and compared to an always loaded sc430 (HARDTOP equal to a 100,000 SL430!!!!) and let all decide which car they prefer.
The sc430 is plenty sporting and plenty fast..........Lexus no doubt put Luxury and quality first! I will concede a few points to the car being "less connected" in the sporting sense.............but it is stll a blast to drive in the twisties and FAST with little comprimise.
Again, This car is 90% as pleasing (for argument sake!) in every way to an SL .....................for $40,000 less!
D
The CLK500 convertible would come somewhat closer to my preferences for tighter handling and driving dynamics, but "4381077" make no mistake about it, it's far, far inferior to an M3 6-speed convertible in every objective performance measure, as well as my personal "fun to drive" evaluation. So I don't think it's particularly fair to attack the SC430 on performance when the CLK500 is hardly the class leader. Give me a reliable CLK55 with a 6-speed and I may change my tune.
The SC430 doesn't have a prayer of competing with the SL500. The SL500 has the technology, looks and performance that shame the SC430. The SC430 didn't even get invited to compete in the SL500's class in a recent comparo, that in itself should tell you something. The SC430 couldn't even beat the CLK430 Cabrio, so you can totally forget about it competing with the SL500. It is a better value than the SL, well if you value getting a folding hardtop and a better sound/nav system for less, then yes. If you value getting a better looking, handling, more technically advanced car, then no the SC isn't a better value. The SC430 can't begin to match the safety engineering of the SL either. Nor does it's body structure come close in rigidity. You're trying to pass off Buick-like dynamics as being "refinement" like the SL500 some rough and crude car. Where are you getting a 40K difference from? I see a 25K difference in their base prices, and about 30K with they way a SL500 is typically optioned. You've got to realize that the rules are slightly different in the GT category. A sound system and nav system don't mean much when a the car isn't as much fun to drive. The SC430 is a blast to drive in the twisties? Compared to what???
Is the SL worth it's price premium (25-30K, not 40K) over the SC430? The market says yes. Amazingly the SL sells at nearly the same rate as the much cheaper SC430. If Cadillac wasn't hampered by a bad image/quality perception, the SC430 would have another car to worry about in the XLR. It sits right between the SC and SL, pricewise. Easily a superior car in many areas compared to the SC430, quality wise we don't know yet, but I doubt it will match the SC there. The Jaguar and Maserati don't have to compete with Lexus on nav and stereo systems, as they pack a 390hp wallop.
M
You are correct - the SL500 is superior to the SC430 in virtually every measure of performance. But that's probably not what most SC430 buyers have as their highest priority. And the SL500 is hardly the epitome of sports car like driving dynamics. It's a two ton, two seat behemoth that uses every Mercedes electronic trick in the book to try to offset it's gross weight for decent handling. And, in fairness, they've done an admirable job. Let's just hope all those electronics and active suspension gizmos have a higher reliability factor than 90% of Mercedes other electronics. Personally, I'd prefer a "performance" car designed for performance from the ground up (i.e. BMW "M", Porsche), not one that has a lot of technological "fixes".
I mention all this as second hand smoke that is being blown by my neighbor. He traded his 2001 E55 for a 2003 E500 a few months ago and has been plagued with problems. Part of his trade deal included getting a SL500 this spring. Now, after having his E500 back to the dealership no less than 6 times in 3 months, he's reconsidering - and considering the SC430. If not for his wife's preferences, he would be getting a 911 6-speed Cabriolet instead of either the SL or SC.
P.S. He also happens to own a Honda S2000 as his little weekend fun car. At $32k he would rate it's "fun to drive" and overall performance at about triple that of the $90k SL500. Of course, it doesn't have as good of a stereo or navigation system. But, in 15 months and 15k miles, it's only been back to the dealership for a couple of oil changes. For that, he is very grateful right now.
A Mercedes is not supposed to be a Porsche, nor is it trying to be one, why is that so hard for up to accept? If you prefer a Porsche or M Series BMW thats fine, but neither one of these compete in the SL, SC, XK8/R, XLR, M Spyder class, so the SL isn't and wasn't designed to compete with a M3 or 911. Thats like me expecting the 760Li to handle the same as CLK55 AMG. What your suggesting makes no sense. Like Mercedes actually built the SL and then discovered it was too heavy and then decided to "fix" it by adding ABC to it. Thats ridiculous.
It's a luxury roadster with a dose of performance. It's not a 911.....
M
I would simply point out that for the luxury minded buyer, the "Buick-like" ride of the SC430 might not be as offensive as the "Buick-like" reliability of the recent crop of new Mercedes models, SL included from what I've heard from my dealer.
I myself would probably put up with less than Lexus class standard reliability for an SL55 with a 6-speed transmission. But not for a base automatic SL500. For the record, I've owned three Mercedes, including an early AMG (300SEL6.3) and they were all relatively reliable for their day. I hope Mercedes management gets the message that my neighbor and many others are sending. I'd consider replacing our SUV with a E500 4-matic Wagon next fall if I wasn't afraid I'd be spending way too much time at the dealership.
M
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=692&- amp;CatID=1
1. Was the SL500 financially affordable to you?
2. Was it considered against the SC430 or were you not interested in it to begin with?
I'd be curious to know. It's my suspicion that the majority of SC430 owners probably could swing the purchase of a SL500 with a little stretching but were largely uninterested in the SL. I could be wrong. I'd be interested to know what SC430 owners cross-shopped their choice against. For all we know, the SC doesn't get cross-shopped against any of the luxury convertibles being discussed. It wouldn't surprise me--the SC430 fills a pretty unique niche.
My wife drives our Miata and always prefers smaller cars............we started out thinking of
practical choices that are fun to drive......ie BMW 3 series and G35......then fell in love with the thrill of a porsche boxster.....but after looking at a private party used 2002 sc430 decides that the car had all the thrills. a bit
more practical than the Miata (or porsche) and
no more $$$ than the other cars (though it is used). I ended up buying my second Lexus because
I TRUST that the car will remain solid for many years and that the dealers will handle any problems sholuld they occur. Not that Mercedes cars are any less in terms of Luxury and performance. But the cars lesser reliability and arrogant dealer reputation (for a more costly car!) has always made not want to fork out extra dough. I , personally would feel quite screwed if I spent 90 grand for an SL and had to take it to the dealer for serious repairs in the first year.
From what I've read......porsche is a notch or two worse in this regard.
Thus , if Lexus makes a reasonably competitive product to the Germans......I do consider it first!
D
At the risk of being criticized for adding to anecdotal evidence, we too have been considering replacing our Isuzu Trooper with an E-Wagon. A good friend who is a fleet leasing manager with the largest Mercedes dealer in our region (4th largest in the country) gave me an earful at our last "cigar night". Bottom line is that he refuses to sell us a first year model Mercedes of any type. Claims that from 1996 on (previous E redesign), the first (and even 2nd / 3rd) year bugs and problems have been horrific - from the C class through the S-class and beyond. As someone who is involved in leasing several hundred Mercedes a year, I'd be foolish not to listen to his advise.
I'm not in the SC/SL market, but I find it hard to believe that most prospective buyers who could comfortably afford both wouldn't rate the SL as the better car in terms of performance, looks and prestige. On the other hand, Lexus has stolen a lot of business form Mercedes by competing on price, build quality and reliability, "Buick-like" ride notwithstanding. Apparantly, Mercedes is either too arrogant or lacking in capabilities to correct their shortcomings in this area. I hope the 2005 E-Wagon benefits from some of these anecdotal musings making their way up to someone in Mercedes management who will take them to heart and action.
M
As for Mercede's reliability issues I cannot turn my back on the "anecdotal" evidence I have gleened from my informal research and inquiries. It may not have the statistical legitimacy of a JD Powers study, but I'm not sure it's any less accurate relative to the current state of affairs.
I'm curious, if you don't put credence in JD Powers, et al OR your own anecdotal research, what do you consider relative to reliability. Or do you just blindly believe that Mercedes must be good.
P.S. Independent agency faults notwithstanding, Consumer Reports did name the BMW 530i the best car they have ever tested. And I believe the ML320 was rated as the second worst vehicle of 100+ in terms of initial quality by JD Powers. Both of these assessments happen to coincide with my anecdotal research.
P.P.S. I would never buy a Lexus because of it's reliability. They just don't do anything for my soul. But I might NOT buy a Mercedes, Porsche or other car if the reliability were known to be poor. I have a low tolerance for frustration.
A lot of people research on the internet nowadays before buying a car so I'm sure they know full well that a BMW, Mercedes, VW, Porsche or Audi isn't going to match the average Japanese car in reliability. That tells me that either Japanese cars aren't as flawless as they are made out to be, or that not every German car buyer is having all these dreaded problems as so often told with my "co-worker this" and my "brother this" type stories. Everyone, including me has those types of stories about every single brand of car made.
Another thing that further weakens these survey's value is the fact that in the latest round of them a Hummer of all things got knocked for fuel economy. Who in their right mind would think a 6500lb truck with gasoline V8 would post stellar MPG numbers? Didn't the people who knocked the Mini Cooper know that the gauge cluster was in the center of the dash when they test drove it? Didn't they know it didn' have a cupholder. Those things are not "problems" in the sense of a non-starting engine or mis-aligned trunk lid. I've read posts on hear about people with MB's and other German cars that don't know how to adjust things, yet they register that as a "problem". Thats a car companys fault if you didn't go over the car with your salesperson, or read the manual? I just can't write off some of the most enjoyable cars on the road based on stuff like that.
Some say that because I don't own one I can't possibly understand what they're saying about reliability. Well guess what, I have a Mitsubishi, and believe me I've had to put up with more than a few things through the years, and I still like the car. According to the surveys a Mitsu is supposed to be junk right?
M
M
I think your message pretty much capsulizes Mercedes and Lexus strengths. No accusations.
I love my sc430 for it's style, solidity, luxury and reliability. When this car can stir the soul like a porsche Boxster then it will have TRULY arrived.
D
Auto magazine classified it as a "Prestige Car" and it got best buy accolades. The SC 430 is a personal luxury car. It was not intended to be a sports car or GT. Ergo it does not compete with Porsche, SL's, SLK's, Jags or BMW. It is a quiet, luxurious,quality and smooth riding car. If you are looking for a sport or GT then don't even consider an SC 430 because it doesn't pretend to be one of those. But if you are looking for reliability and quality then the SC 430 should be first on your list.
Ron
Well, as advised by a few Club Lexus members, I immediately examined the under-chasis as the vehicles sat high above my height. Our careful analysis revealed no leaks or inferior parts. Most important, no rust existed in or around the exhaust system and etc..... I was told by a few club members to examine the bottom closely. As the shipper removed both automobiles from the truck, the keys were then given. We then slowly inspected each bumper, light, mirror and window for cracks, chips, scratches, stains and scuff marks. We meticulously inspected both vehicles from the front bumper to the quarter panels and to the rear bumper. We found no defects again. As we entered the interior cabin, the odor of fresh high grade leather tickled our noses. The seats and carpets immediately met our expectations. We then proceeded to examine the ceiling, activated the on and off features for the navigation system, radio, air conditioner system and more. Everything seemed operational and we performed these inspections while the shipper stood nearby obviously intrigued with our investments. He was a very nice guy. Members, we could not find any faults. Of course we anticipated none. Our confidence remained firm since both cars are brand new revealing 12 miles and the other revealing only 15 miles per the odometer readings. Members, this VolumeSeller guy delivered. 'He is the man,' if to utter a popular phrase.
Excitement flows in our veins. We must exit for another extensive drive and before our wives snatch these 'toys' from us, smile.
Ty and father.
In my opinion the SC is really more of a personal luxury car rather than a "sports car".
However, as for appeal. I get compliments every time I drive mine on what a great looking car it is.
Anyway, just my . 02.
Ron
On paper, the SC430 should perform comparably to (or better than) the SL500. Same (rated) horsepower and the SL's slight torque advantage is offset by the SC's 200 lbs lighter weight. Why there is such a noticable difference in immediate responsiveness between the SC and SL isn't clear to me. Perhaps the transmission? Perhaps Lexus overstated the SC's real power ratings?
Unfortunately, we don't drive on paper and most people I know who have driven the SC430 expecting it to perform like a sports car have not purchased it after a test drive. On the other hand, it is a beautiful car that cruises the boulevard with the best of them.
I still like the car, despite all its many shortcomings.