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Lexus SC 430



  • jay_75jay_75 Posts: 10
    if you're offering one, I'll trade you a 1990 Honda Accord with 208k miles on it......its in beautiful condition (for a car with 200+k miles)

  • Quick, get your rifles! Defend yourself to the death!
  • Two comments ~ Ugly & over Priced IMO. (PS & Oh I'll also eat it alive with my old Mustang Cobra.) Wait and buy a T Bird for half the price.
  • Dohc32v,

    Please do not try to compare your car with my work of art based simply on 0-60 performance. Remember, a Subaru WRX may be able to beat a Ferrari 456A from 0-60, but how important is that in the grand scheme of automobile ownership?

    Price is subjective based on how much cash you do or don't have. This car is a bargain compared to its real competitors.

    And why don't you test an SC430 past 120mph. Mustangs can't even do 140 without heavy modification. Your opinion is unwelcome at best, although you are entitled to it, it is horribly ill-informed. Your argument is similar to a minivan owner complaining about the luggage space and price of a Diablo. I didn't buy my car simply to drag race, but for the quality, luxury, features, and exclusivity.

    Please go back to the 'Stang/gold chain chat room with your sour grapes until you hit the lottery and can move up to a real automobile worthy enough to compare with mine.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    The good news is that it caught everyone's attention, even though the people I was with were not "car" people.

    The bad news is that all three of them thought it was ugly.

    Well, at least it's polarizing :)
  • >>>>And why don't you test an SC430 past 120mph. Mustangs can't even do 140 without heavy modification. Your opinion is unwelcome at best, although you are entitled to it, it is horribly ill-informed. <<<<

    As to being ill informed, I'd suggest you check the top speed of a Mustang Cobra, you will find it slightly over 150, to be exact 152 Mph.

    >>>>Please go back to the 'Stang/gold chain chat room with your sour grapes until you hit the lottery and can move up to a real automobile worthy enough to compare with mine. <<<<

    To add to your state of being ill informed, I happen to be a senior citizen and a very conservative one at that. As to moving up to a real automobile, I'm seriously contemplating the purchase of a new 2003 Dodge Viper. And just for your edification sir, I have always payed cash for my automobiles.

    Now I will say again, I believe the SC-430 is an ugly creation and grossly over priced. Thank you for allowing me to reiterate my opinion about your "real automobile".
  • bjrichbjrich Posts: 125
    You must be a child.
    Your comparo of sc430 to a mustang is silly;
    Stay off the web site play by yourself.
    spihinx99; You are slipping to take that stand of comments out of context.
  • sp01sp01 Posts: 81
    have never had occasion to agree with dohc32v.

    Until now.

    Overpriced, ugly and derivative. Lexus does know its coupe audience, though. They went after a group of affected poseurs with a need to compensate, and, according to the posts here and in other sc430 threads, both current and archived, they hit paydirt.

    Well done. Well done indeed...
  • bjrichbjrich Posts: 125
    What dribble!
  • sp01sp01 Posts: 81
    a thousand pairs of RayBans.

    If "polarizing" is what you're after.

    If a real car with devastating looks and hefty performance is the quest, well, CLK430 Cabriolet, 911 Carerra, CLK 55AMG, Viper R/T10 and XK8 are all in the park, price-wise, with only the Viper being really questionable as to styling...
  • sp01sp01 Posts: 81
    the Viper.

    But I think it's an unfair call. I mean, after all, the top is actually watertight this year.

    Of course, having a clutch that requires a 300lb. leg press to actuate might be construed as less than luxurious!

    Still, at least it HAS a clutch...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Does anyone keep their old Automobile Magazines. I recall that Robert Cumberford did a styling and design critique of the SC430 that was supposed to be quite interesting...I very much liked his critique of the Aztek, as he put into very clear concepts and visual what was troubling about the Aztek.

    I believe the SC430 critique was in the April 2001 issue. Would anyone care to look over the article and give us all the gist of it? Thanks!

    Mr. Shiftright
  • Sure, I'll take your 200K Honda Accord! I have a few SC430's that aren't on a waiting list...
  • sp01sp01 Posts: 81
    Lexus general manager: "The SC430 has a little bit of an Audi TT feel in back and a little retro look. What the TT did for Audi is elevate the brand, and we want to do the same thing with this car."

    Bob: "Except that they can't. You do not lead by copying, and this beautifully made car is a poor copy of the TT - rounded at both ends, with a squashed top and pudgy surfacing. It's a far cry from Erwin Lui's SC300/400 design that made it an Automobile Magazine All-Star for many years. No matter; it's already a sales success. And the top goes down."

    Basically points out the strengths and weaknesses of Japanese high end cars: impeccably constructed, but lagging in styling and design, unless some Italian comes on board to help out.

    Nobody would argue that the car is not a good car, but at that price, it should be something folks actually like looking at everyday...
  • bjrichbjrich Posts: 125
    I surely could stand looking at one in my driveway everyday!!!~!~!~I was standing by a nice lady when she took delivery of a new Silver/black s430 on Friday afternoon. This is a stunning car from every angle...I see no way to ridicule anything about it,, and your statements sound very unrealistic to me. As for the Japanese not being able to style a car that is really not an accurate statement.They intended car market after most mfg's had long been styling cars and I think many cars may take on styling cues from previous makes. Even if the president of Lexus says it has cues from the Audi, he says it only to avoid a disagrement original Honda.'s were well styled and pretty original they evolved in their own way, and the list could easily go on and on...Anyway, that lady's new car was absolutely stunning and reaked of quality. She said she had waited sinc January...she laughed out loud when I ask her if she would marry me. It was a nice experience. At that car agency, I road in a new Mercedes c320..It was not a really attractive car and the feel of the car on the street was not up to my expections of a $39.000 car...the write ups on this car have been excellent from many sources./ we then drove a I35 at $35,000 and didn't want to get out...It was terrific. I really cannot see that the Japanese have missed many boats in the past 25 year. My Crystal Blue Mica Miata, at any price, is certainly a beautiful car and it too has evolved from the 90. It may have some copy points on its styling over the past three years. and if it has any styling cues in the past three years they are from the knockout Jag, xk8.. (BMW just keeps copying itself_) I doubt if any manufacturer can restlyle a car in a year to copy one that was out before they put their car on the road.I wound not bet against Toyota Corp as to not beating any car manufacturer in any way they want to, any time. they want to, and make their own rules as to what is correct to gain sales and profits. Their new Lexus s430 is indeed a winner just the way Toyota. wanted it to be in their game plan./
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    WEll, we'll see. The Miata had "classic" lines from the get-go. Nobody I ever met thought the RX-7 last generation was anything but beautiful. The Lexus SC300 is generally applauded as tasteful, although not a dropdead new design. However, the SC430 has met with some very adverse criticism from both public and professionals, and this is not a good start for anything that pretends to be a "classic".

    I think the car will remain controversial and will not be imitated further. It is an interesting dead-end in styling, IMO. This is not to single out Lexus, as other cars recently introduced will also fall under a cloud of controversy (Prowler, Cougar, Audi TT, VW Bug, etc.)
  • I can't tell you what a dead end line of conversation this is, but let me throw in my facts versus your subjective opinions.

    I've owned my SC430 since July, and every day that I drive it, which is almost every day of the week, I get dozens of positive verbal comments, and many more positive gestures. And at least one or two people request to admire it more closely, and afterwards conclude that the car is fantastic. Not nice, FANTASTIC. There is no way that you can justify "mixed" opinion based on your statistically insignifant number of negative reports.

    Has there been one car designed in the last 20 years where similarities can't be drawn to some other vehicle? Possibly the Aztec...need I say more?

    Your opinions have been duly noted, as they need be only ONCE.

    Constant repetition of your negative comments regarding a car you will never own, and have no interest in owning, lead to the conclusion that you are merely envious. There's no good reason to dedicate this much time to this subject.

    It's time for you to move on with your lives.

    And Mr. Shiftright, as a host, I would expect you to refrain from such comments until you have actually spent more than a few minutes around and in the passenger seat of this car. If you had the opportunity, you would see how impressive this car truly is.

    Rental companies charge more for this car than any other exotic short of the current Ferrari line and the CL500. Not because it's more expensive or just more exclusive, but for the demand.

    For every negative experience you can quote, I can quote 5 times more positive reports.

    Perfect, no. But what car is? It is overwhelmingly by most accounts FANTASTIC!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yeah, but I'm just telling you what I'm looking at or what other media have said. I've never commented on the car's driving qualities or handling or braking or whatever.

    Certainly, my opinion should be as valid as any random passer-by on the street who looks at your car. Not better, but surely just as valid. I've studied car styling almost all my life, and I know quite a bit about the history of styling. I've spent a couple of hours just looking at the SC430. I've even sketched it.

    Examples might be drawn from architecture about which styles endure and which don't, or which styles draw attention but don't get copied.

    Best thing to do is to look at the 2002/2003 cars and see what's happening out there.
  • I'm just pointing out that redundant negative subjectivity does no one any good.

    I come here to see if anyone has any useful info regarding vehicles I'm interested in, which I think is the primary purpose of these townhalls.

    The overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism may lead an unknowledgable yet interested person to believe that this car is an unworthy option.

    This certainly is not the case, as the tangible and intangible qualities, characteristics, and content of this car make it a bargain.

    And Mr Shiftright, I believe you did compare the handling to a BMW M3 when you had the pleasure of being a passenger in an SC430. This is a GT car, not a sports car, and your comments and comparisons have contributed to the negativity. I just don't feel the impartiality that I expect from a host.

    As a result, any meaningful or experienced commentary by owners is a thing of the past, as they have largely been driven to other forums.

    I hope I'm not violating any rules here, but I feel I must stand up for what may possibly be the best car for the money that exists today.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I think any discussion in Town Hall can contain postives and negatives as long as the commentary is reasonably put forth and are not intended to insult or injure. Visitors here are allowed not to like this car, but they are not allowed to insult another individual. Hosts must follow those rules just like anyone else.
  • Check out page 22 (bottom of the page) of Automobile Magazine (December 2001 Issue) the photograph of the Toyota FXS, which is to be presented at the Tokyo Auto Show this year. ( A rebodied Lexus SC-430) I suspect the current SC-430 body style isn't long for this world, as IMO this is what the restyled SC-430 should have looked like at it's recent introduction. The FXS certainly has much more pleasing lines and body style IMO.
  • You say:

    "There is no way that you can justify "mixed" opinion based on your statistically insignifant number of negative reports."

    but later you also state:

    "The overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism may lead an unknowledgable yet interested person to believe that this car is an unworthy option."

    So the "overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism" does not count towards the mixed feelings? We dont count cause we havent told you in person. Tell you what, if I ever see you in person, I'll tell you I think your car is ugly.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I don't think this car is "ugly" wishnhigh, and I don't personally believe that is the best way to go about a critique of a car. Every car has its plusses and minuses regarding styling. Very, very few cars, a mere handful, are "ALL right" or "ALL wrong". The reason I pointed to the Cumberford article was that it was a "considered" opinion on many levels. It was a thoughtful critique in other words. I didn't agree 100% with it either.

    Fact is, obviously, only Time is the judge of what is timeless in styling. We really don't know how we'll look at a car ten or twenty years from now or whether we will respect it or not.
  • To owners. Can one or two golf bags fit? Also car seat for 3 year old Gdauhter? I am interested but can't get feel for utility from the few SCs I have seen at dealers floor. Resonsees appreciated.
  • Yes, 2 bags will fit with the top up. One with the top down if you have the runflat option with no spare.

    I've found that the trunk can actually hold a decent amount of luggage as well.

    Hope that helped!
  • The overwhelming negativity was a reference to this board. Its insignificance is weighted relative to the thousands of positive responses to just my car, other owner's reports, and the majority of magazine reviews.

    Maybe you should read my post more than once before you respond.

    And BTW, I don't think I'll be able to hear your critique of my car due to the noise from the metrobus you ride in.

    Get a life...
  • The whole point of my post is that people will rarely tell the owner of the car that the car is ugly. If you judge the looks of the car by the comments you get in person, then your judgement is going to be severely one sided.

    I also am wondering why you are judging the looks based on others opinions. Every post from you seems to say something similar to, "this car is not ugly because lots of people tell me they like it". Why don't you like it for yourself, and not for the opinion of others?

    I personally like SAABs. MANY people think they are ugly. I think they are great. I love the quirky yet simple styling. Its only an opinion and everybody has one, so why choose to get offended by it?

    Don't read into this too much, I just wanna know. Are you from the Los Angeles area?
  • The comments I was rebuking went beyond personal opinion. They went so far as to assume a general status based on insufficient data.

    Who's personality is more damaged than someone who wishes to repeat their negative opinion of someone else's cherished goods just out of spite?

    I believe I have made my point to any rational adult. I now ask that trollers move along, and I will try not to respond to any of them again, even if personally attacked.
  • Obviously anyone who has just parted with $ 60 Large for an automobile is going to be extremely sensitive about any adverse comments relative to his vehicle selection and investment. I can understand that, I guess I would have the same sensitivity. ( It would be a reflection upon my judgement, taste and investment wisdom.) Therefore I will bow to doc's personal freedom of deciding what looks good and punches his buttons. Hope you enjoy your ride, as much as you appear to relish and enjoy it doc. If someone dropped one in my driveway, I'm certain I would enjoy it also. Have a nice day sir.
  • autos3autos3 Posts: 24
    I think this car is BEAUTIFUL!. I am also considering trading in my 01 S2000 for one of these "Jewels". Can anyone post what I should expect to pay for this in Upstate NY. (we recently bought an 02 ES300 in Hartford CT) and got a great deal there.
This discussion has been closed.