Lexus SC 430

chrismk · November 2001

I can help!

jay_75 · November 2001

if you're offering one, I'll trade you a 1990 Honda Accord with 208k miles on it......its in beautiful condition (for a car with 200+k miles)

wishnhigh1 · November 2001

Quick, get your rifles! Defend yourself to the death!

dohc32v · November 2001

Two comments ~ Ugly & over Priced IMO. (PS & Oh I'll also eat it alive with my old Mustang Cobra.) Wait and buy a T Bird for half the price.

doc007 · November 2001

Dohc32v,

Please do not try to compare your car with my work of art based simply on 0-60 performance. Remember, a Subaru WRX may be able to beat a Ferrari 456A from 0-60, but how important is that in the grand scheme of automobile ownership?

Price is subjective based on how much cash you do or don't have. This car is a bargain compared to its real competitors.

And why don't you test an SC430 past 120mph. Mustangs can't even do 140 without heavy modification. Your opinion is unwelcome at best, although you are entitled to it, it is horribly ill-informed. Your argument is similar to a minivan owner complaining about the luggage space and price of a Diablo. I didn't buy my car simply to drag race, but for the quality, luxury, features, and exclusivity.

Please go back to the 'Stang/gold chain chat room with your sour grapes until you hit the lottery and can move up to a real automobile worthy enough to compare with mine.

sphinx99 · November 2001

The good news is that it caught everyone's attention, even though the people I was with were not "car" people.

The bad news is that all three of them thought it was ugly.

Well, at least it's polarizing

dohc32v · November 2001

>>>>And why don't you test an SC430 past 120mph. Mustangs can't even do 140 without heavy modification. Your opinion is unwelcome at best, although you are entitled to it, it is horribly ill-informed. <<<<

As to being ill informed, I'd suggest you check the top speed of a Mustang Cobra, you will find it slightly over 150, to be exact 152 Mph.

>>>>Please go back to the 'Stang/gold chain chat room with your sour grapes until you hit the lottery and can move up to a real automobile worthy enough to compare with mine. <<<<

To add to your state of being ill informed, I happen to be a senior citizen and a very conservative one at that. As to moving up to a real automobile, I'm seriously contemplating the purchase of a new 2003 Dodge Viper. And just for your edification sir, I have always payed cash for my automobiles.

Now I will say again, I believe the SC-430 is an ugly creation and grossly over priced. Thank you for allowing me to reiterate my opinion about your "real automobile".

bjrich · November 2001

You must be a child.
Your comparo of sc430 to a mustang is silly;
Stay off the web site play by yourself.
spihinx99; You are slipping to take that stand of comments out of context.

sp01 · November 2001

have never had occasion to agree with dohc32v.

Until now.

Overpriced, ugly and derivative. Lexus does know its coupe audience, though. They went after a group of affected poseurs with a need to compensate, and, according to the posts here and in other sc430 threads, both current and archived, they hit paydirt.

Well done. Well done indeed...

bjrich · November 2001

What dribble!

sp01 · November 2001

a thousand pairs of RayBans.

If "polarizing" is what you're after.

If a real car with devastating looks and hefty performance is the quest, well, CLK430 Cabriolet, 911 Carerra, CLK 55AMG, Viper R/T10 and XK8 are all in the park, price-wise, with only the Viper being really questionable as to styling...

sp01 · November 2001

the Viper.

But I think it's an unfair call. I mean, after all, the top is actually watertight this year.

Of course, having a clutch that requires a 300lb. leg press to actuate might be construed as less than luxurious!

Still, at least it HAS a clutch...

Mr_Shiftright · November 2001

Does anyone keep their old Automobile Magazines. I recall that Robert Cumberford did a styling and design critique of the SC430 that was supposed to be quite interesting...I very much liked his critique of the Aztek, as he put into very clear concepts and visual what was troubling about the Aztek.

I believe the SC430 critique was in the April 2001 issue. Would anyone care to look over the article and give us all the gist of it? Thanks!

Mr. Shiftright

chrismk · November 2001

Sure, I'll take your 200K Honda Accord! I have a few SC430's that aren't on a waiting list...

sp01 · November 2001

Lexus general manager: "The SC430 has a little bit of an Audi TT feel in back and a little retro look. What the TT did for Audi is elevate the brand, and we want to do the same thing with this car."

Bob: "Except that they can't. You do not lead by copying, and this beautifully made car is a poor copy of the TT - rounded at both ends, with a squashed top and pudgy surfacing. It's a far cry from Erwin Lui's SC300/400 design that made it an Automobile Magazine All-Star for many years. No matter; it's already a sales success. And the top goes down."

Basically points out the strengths and weaknesses of Japanese high end cars: impeccably constructed, but lagging in styling and design, unless some Italian comes on board to help out.

Nobody would argue that the car is not a good car, but at that price, it should be something folks actually like looking at everyday...

bjrich · November 2001

I surely could stand looking at one in my driveway everyday!!!~!~!~I was standing by a nice lady when she took delivery of a new Silver/black s430 on Friday afternoon. This is a stunning car from every angle...I see no way to ridicule anything about it,, and your statements sound very unrealistic to me. As for the Japanese not being able to style a car that is really not an accurate statement.They intended car market after most mfg's had long been styling cars and I think many cars may take on styling cues from previous makes. Even if the president of Lexus says it has cues from the Audi, he says it only to avoid a disagrement original Honda.'s were well styled and pretty original they evolved in their own way, and the list could easily go on and on...Anyway, that lady's new car was absolutely stunning and reaked of quality. She said she had waited sinc January...she laughed out loud when I ask her if she would marry me. It was a nice experience. At that car agency, I road in a new Mercedes c320..It was not a really attractive car and the feel of the car on the street was not up to my expections of a $39.000 car...the write ups on this car have been excellent from many sources./ we then drove a I35 at $35,000 and didn't want to get out...It was terrific. I really cannot see that the Japanese have missed many boats in the past 25 year. My Crystal Blue Mica Miata, at any price, is certainly a beautiful car and it too has evolved from the 90. It may have some copy points on its styling over the past three years. and if it has any styling cues in the past three years they are from the knockout Jag, xk8.. (BMW just keeps copying itself_) I doubt if any manufacturer can restlyle a car in a year to copy one that was out before they put their car on the road.I wound not bet against Toyota Corp as to not beating any car manufacturer in any way they want to, any time. they want to, and make their own rules as to what is correct to gain sales and profits. Their new Lexus s430 is indeed a winner just the way Toyota. wanted it to be in their game plan./

Mr_Shiftright · November 2001

WEll, we'll see. The Miata had "classic" lines from the get-go. Nobody I ever met thought the RX-7 last generation was anything but beautiful. The Lexus SC300 is generally applauded as tasteful, although not a dropdead new design. However, the SC430 has met with some very adverse criticism from both public and professionals, and this is not a good start for anything that pretends to be a "classic".

I think the car will remain controversial and will not be imitated further. It is an interesting dead-end in styling, IMO. This is not to single out Lexus, as other cars recently introduced will also fall under a cloud of controversy (Prowler, Cougar, Audi TT, VW Bug, etc.)

doc007 · November 2001

I can't tell you what a dead end line of conversation this is, but let me throw in my facts versus your subjective opinions.

I've owned my SC430 since July, and every day that I drive it, which is almost every day of the week, I get dozens of positive verbal comments, and many more positive gestures. And at least one or two people request to admire it more closely, and afterwards conclude that the car is fantastic. Not nice, FANTASTIC. There is no way that you can justify "mixed" opinion based on your statistically insignifant number of negative reports.

Has there been one car designed in the last 20 years where similarities can't be drawn to some other vehicle? Possibly the Aztec...need I say more?

Your opinions have been duly noted, as they need be only ONCE.

Constant repetition of your negative comments regarding a car you will never own, and have no interest in owning, lead to the conclusion that you are merely envious. There's no good reason to dedicate this much time to this subject.

It's time for you to move on with your lives.

And Mr. Shiftright, as a host, I would expect you to refrain from such comments until you have actually spent more than a few minutes around and in the passenger seat of this car. If you had the opportunity, you would see how impressive this car truly is.

Rental companies charge more for this car than any other exotic short of the current Ferrari line and the CL500. Not because it's more expensive or just more exclusive, but for the demand.

For every negative experience you can quote, I can quote 5 times more positive reports.

Perfect, no. But what car is? It is overwhelmingly by most accounts FANTASTIC!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2001

Yeah, but I'm just telling you what I'm looking at or what other media have said. I've never commented on the car's driving qualities or handling or braking or whatever.

Certainly, my opinion should be as valid as any random passer-by on the street who looks at your car. Not better, but surely just as valid. I've studied car styling almost all my life, and I know quite a bit about the history of styling. I've spent a couple of hours just looking at the SC430. I've even sketched it.

Examples might be drawn from architecture about which styles endure and which don't, or which styles draw attention but don't get copied.

Best thing to do is to look at the 2002/2003 cars and see what's happening out there.

doc007 · November 2001

I'm just pointing out that redundant negative subjectivity does no one any good.

I come here to see if anyone has any useful info regarding vehicles I'm interested in, which I think is the primary purpose of these townhalls.

The overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism may lead an unknowledgable yet interested person to believe that this car is an unworthy option.

This certainly is not the case, as the tangible and intangible qualities, characteristics, and content of this car make it a bargain.

And Mr Shiftright, I believe you did compare the handling to a BMW M3 when you had the pleasure of being a passenger in an SC430. This is a GT car, not a sports car, and your comments and comparisons have contributed to the negativity. I just don't feel the impartiality that I expect from a host.

As a result, any meaningful or experienced commentary by owners is a thing of the past, as they have largely been driven to other forums.

I hope I'm not violating any rules here, but I feel I must stand up for what may possibly be the best car for the money that exists today.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2001

I think any discussion in Town Hall can contain postives and negatives as long as the commentary is reasonably put forth and are not intended to insult or injure. Visitors here are allowed not to like this car, but they are not allowed to insult another individual. Hosts must follow those rules just like anyone else.

dohc32v · November 2001

Check out page 22 (bottom of the page) of Automobile Magazine (December 2001 Issue) the photograph of the Toyota FXS, which is to be presented at the Tokyo Auto Show this year. ( A rebodied Lexus SC-430) I suspect the current SC-430 body style isn't long for this world, as IMO this is what the restyled SC-430 should have looked like at it's recent introduction. The FXS certainly has much more pleasing lines and body style IMO.

wishnhigh1 · November 2001

You say:

"There is no way that you can justify "mixed" opinion based on your statistically insignifant number of negative reports."

but later you also state:

"The overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism may lead an unknowledgable yet interested person to believe that this car is an unworthy option."

So the "overwhelming amount of undue and repeated criticism" does not count towards the mixed feelings? We dont count cause we havent told you in person. Tell you what, if I ever see you in person, I'll tell you I think your car is ugly.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2001

I don't think this car is "ugly" wishnhigh, and I don't personally believe that is the best way to go about a critique of a car. Every car has its plusses and minuses regarding styling. Very, very few cars, a mere handful, are "ALL right" or "ALL wrong". The reason I pointed to the Cumberford article was that it was a "considered" opinion on many levels. It was a thoughtful critique in other words. I didn't agree 100% with it either.

Fact is, obviously, only Time is the judge of what is timeless in styling. We really don't know how we'll look at a car ten or twenty years from now or whether we will respect it or not.

gigisqrd · November 2001

To owners. Can one or two golf bags fit? Also car seat for 3 year old Gdauhter? I am interested but can't get feel for utility from the few SCs I have seen at dealers floor. Resonsees appreciated.

doc007 · November 2001

Yes, 2 bags will fit with the top up. One with the top down if you have the runflat option with no spare.

I've found that the trunk can actually hold a decent amount of luggage as well.

Hope that helped!

doc007 · November 2001

The overwhelming negativity was a reference to this board. Its insignificance is weighted relative to the thousands of positive responses to just my car, other owner's reports, and the majority of magazine reviews.

Maybe you should read my post more than once before you respond.

And BTW, I don't think I'll be able to hear your critique of my car due to the noise from the metrobus you ride in.

Get a life...

wishnhigh1 · November 2001

The whole point of my post is that people will rarely tell the owner of the car that the car is ugly. If you judge the looks of the car by the comments you get in person, then your judgement is going to be severely one sided.

I also am wondering why you are judging the looks based on others opinions. Every post from you seems to say something similar to, "this car is not ugly because lots of people tell me they like it". Why don't you like it for yourself, and not for the opinion of others?

I personally like SAABs. MANY people think they are ugly. I think they are great. I love the quirky yet simple styling. Its only an opinion and everybody has one, so why choose to get offended by it?

Don't read into this too much, I just wanna know. Are you from the Los Angeles area?

doc007 · November 2001

The comments I was rebuking went beyond personal opinion. They went so far as to assume a general status based on insufficient data.

Who's personality is more damaged than someone who wishes to repeat their negative opinion of someone else's cherished goods just out of spite?

I believe I have made my point to any rational adult. I now ask that trollers move along, and I will try not to respond to any of them again, even if personally attacked.

dohc32v · November 2001

Obviously anyone who has just parted with $ 60 Large for an automobile is going to be extremely sensitive about any adverse comments relative to his vehicle selection and investment. I can understand that, I guess I would have the same sensitivity. ( It would be a reflection upon my judgement, taste and investment wisdom.) Therefore I will bow to doc's personal freedom of deciding what looks good and punches his buttons. Hope you enjoy your ride, as much as you appear to relish and enjoy it doc. If someone dropped one in my driveway, I'm certain I would enjoy it also. Have a nice day sir.

autos3 · November 2001

I think this car is BEAUTIFUL!. I am also considering trading in my 01 S2000 for one of these "Jewels". Can anyone post what I should expect to pay for this in Upstate NY. (we recently bought an 02 ES300 in Hartford CT) and got a great deal there.

lenscap · November 2001

I don't own an SC 430, and since I'm in my early thirties and have other expenses I won't be getting one anytime soon. But I'll tell you this, I think the car is stunning. It is simply one of the most beautiful cars on the road. Every time I see one in a parking lot there are always other people looking at it up close. Who cares if the car will be a classic in 20-30 years? The point is the car looks great today and will be for the forseeable future. Throw in its amazing reliability, quality and luxury and you have one fine car. And my feeling is the car is bargain-priced.

To all who own this great car enjoy.

p.s. The FXS concept car was just a styling exercise and will never be built from what I've read.

gearhead7 · November 2001

It is difficult for those of us trying to form a balanced opinion about something, when you are so willing to make personal attacks on anyone who does not agree with your already made decision.

I can promise you this, there are LOTS of people who could easily afford to buy your car that do not appreciate it much. That does not either improve or weaken the attributes of the car. Please take your own advice and stick to a discussion about the facts, and leave the insults elsewhere.

rayfer · November 2001

i have had my sc430 for about 6 months. i think it is beautiful but it is a damn rattletrap.... everday i heat a new friggin rattle....

dohc32v · November 2001

>>>everday i heat a new friggin rattle.... <<<

Emm, car rattles to me are like living near a railroad or an airport, after awhile the noise seems to disappear, you seem to filter it out automatically. But I guess with new rattles showing up with old rattles in a $60K investment that is only 6 months old, I'd get aggravated also. I suspect that folding roof structure with six or eight motors with hydraulics and who knows how many other associated parts, probably adds to the symphony. Put a set of 3 inch pipes on it with Borla muffers and a Bassani X pipe with high flow cats and hell everything else will fade into the back ground <Grin>. Besides you'll have the best sounding 430SC, anywhere around.

anthonyp1 · November 2001

Sometimes a little lubricant applies sparingly can help. If it is a rattle rattle, try to locate and possibly tighten whatever. Tony ps better still look back on this board under lexus on the townhall then sc430. There were many posts before suspender

ccotenj · November 2001

i have a 6 year old bimmer convertible, and it doesn't rattle... (squeaks a lot when it's damp though)...

didn't a "why i love my sc430" thread get started somewhere along the line? possibly the poster who brooks no negative opinion about his car might want to find that thread...

personally, i find it "unappealing" (is that better than "ugly", shifty?)...

and doc? fwiw, wishnhigh has probably ridden or driven far more quality rides than you'll ever see in your life. so can your "i'm richer than you so i'll insult you" attitude. otoh, don't. the best thing bimmer drivers have going for them these days is that lexus drivers are actually passing them in the poseur category...

-Chris

ccotenj · November 2001

"I'm just pointing out that redundant negative subjectivity does no one any good."

i suppose redundant positive subjectivity does?

-Chris

w2p2 · December 2001

Just saw one for the first time Friday. DAMN its hot looking!. I have compared the differences between the two cars and think Lexus SC is better. Although it is 11K more than a SLK.
The SC has a tremendous amount of features that my SLK does not have. What are your thoughs on the rain free windshield?
I had owned a 2001,C320, but had major problems with the electronic keys and the computer in the car. The last time I took it in I decided to get rid of it and get a convertable.
The Sc is sharp looking !
I may have to trade this spring.

wishnhigh1 · December 2001

how old is the SLK? Don't you think it would be better if you traded now rather than later? Verts usually seem to go a little higher in spring time.

BTW, whats a rain free windshield? Is that like rainX or something?

w2p2 · December 2001

It was a long process getting the SLK. I need to savor the moment. The SC has a coating on the windshield that sheets rain, sort of like rain X. I have not seen it in action , but have read about it.

squidd99 · December 2001

I've had an SC430 since April and have not noticed that the rain on the windshield acts much differently one way or the other from previous cars, including cars with Rain-X on them.

The side windows do keep themselves remarkably clear of rain, however, which may be due to a coating or to the design; I don't know.

As for the positive feedback from strangers in parking lots, gas stations, and even on the road -- I agree that folks generally will not tell you to your face that your car is ugly, any more than they would say that to you regarding your baby. However, if they have a negative or even a neutral opinion, they will just pass on their way. I don't say anything to Aztek owners, for example. What continues to surprize me, however, is the frequency with which I am subject to favorable questions and comments, even from people who do not know what kind of a car it is (since it's still pretty rare, at least where I live). What this says to me is that there is a lot of initial positive reaction to the looks of the car, which is not everyone's cup of tea, and certainly not as beautiful as the SC400, for example.

I have never had a car of any kind that has generated this kind of an active response on the part of friendly strangers. I think it's a good thing, and speaks well of the car.

carnaught · December 2001

...getting softer? Or, is it my imagination? I see a fair amount of slightly used, low mileage ones sitting in car dealer's lots for weeks and months! These are the cars that used to fetch in the 70's and now will not command this price point.

lexusfan2002 · December 2001

The demand here in So.Cal is as heavy as ever. Six month wait unless you get lucky. I bought mine a few months ago and couldn't be happier. I just replaced my wheels, I didn't like the factory wheels, even though mine were chromed.

wishnhigh1 · December 2001

Ive got a question...all these SCs that people are waiting for. Are they going high above MSRP, and if so how much? Do you think dealers are inflating the price too much?

carnaught · December 2001

..dealers ARE inflating the price too high and it might come back to haunt them. It's a business though and one can't blame them. With the pricepoint they're creating (well into the 70's), however, they're getting in the range of the new SL Mercedes and it should be interesting to see how or if it affects the sales of the SC. Lexusfan2002, I think the market in So. Cal. has even softened. I received a call from B. Hills Lexus to "prodd" me a bit lately, whereas prior, they had the attitude that they were doing me a favor by being "willing" to sell me the car.

lexusfan2002 · December 2001

I can't speak for other dealers buy my dealer will only sell for list, no less no more. I did visit two others and they were inflating the price by adding stuff like custom wheels for crazy prices.

modvptnl · December 2001

I think that they're talking about the automatic rain sensing wipers. My Lexus (non SC) has them and I think they need to be a tad more sensitive.

SE92692 · December 2001

I don't know about other parts of the country, but at least in Southern California, there are lots of SC430's sitting on the dealers lots unsold. I think you'd be able to get one under MSRP. I just bought a new Lexus SportCross last month for UNDER invoice. So I assume one could get a good deal on the SC430 also.

eljefedeltache · January 2002

The SC430 postings seem to have died down a bit on these boards, but I have enjoyed reading them and found them helpful in making the decision to buy my new car (just took delivery this week).

Count me in the camp of owners that think the lines of this car are fantastic, are really impressed with the handling/performance and creature comforts of the vehicle, and am counting on Lexus' great record of customer satisfaction for a happy ownership experience. I'm enjoying every minute in my new car and still discovering things to admire in terms of how the 430 was designed and constructed.

That said, there was a great post on a prior board listing some features that are a little messed up. In the spirit of nit-picking, here are my additions:

1. The audio control buttons on the steering wheel are great, and allow you to do almost anything needed to the stereo without having to have the panel in front of the ML faceplate open. The mode button allows you to turn the stereo on and switch between AM/FM/CD/cass modes....but it should also allow you to turn the stereo back off.....it doesn't (you need to open the panel to do this).

2. The audio antenna retracts when the power to the ML stereo is off, but it should also retract when listening to a CD or cassette--it doesn't.

3. The switch to open/close the top should be one-touch (this may be a safety issue). And if Lexus really wanted to impress people, they would have programmed special SC keys that allow you to raise/lower the top remotely (as you can do with your windows now, but the same safety issue may be involved).

4. The audio for the navigation system comes from the front left speaker(s) only. The problem with this is that when the top is down and/or one is really blaring tunes, Nancy Navigator is awfully difficult to hear--even when the left channel music automatically dims to let Nancy talk. The audio should dim from all channels/speakers when Nancy has something to say and/or she should talk from all the channels/speakers.

5. I agree with the prior posts that the complexities of locking the car for a valet and the need to keep the mirror adjust out of "lock" for the mirrors to drop while in reverse are silly oversights.

Do others have comments on these observations--or maybe there are some features above that are malfunctioning in my car that need to get fixed--I'd really welcome your remarks. In addition, I wonder if there are any new comments recommending car covers (the Lexus cover is not worth purchasing)---where can a quality one be purchased? And has anyone had success removing the unsightly ABS warning labels on either side of the sun visors?

I look forward to your comments.....

BTW, regarding price, I agree that the waiting lists seemed to have vanished, and I was able to pay a LITTLE less than MSRP for the SC430

lexusfan2002 · January 2002

"2. The audio antenna retracts when the power to the ML stereo is off, but it should also retract when listening to a CD or cassette--it doesn't."

Sure it does.. press and hold the RDS button to turn it off.

(It's explained in the manual)

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