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Lexus SC 430
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Comments
What about zero to sixty? SC wins... Reliability of Lexus versus MB? Lexus wins... Dealer attitude? Lexus wins...
Yeah I guess the Benz will be breaking down all the time, and their dealers are the VW levels and all of them have such poor attitudes. Guess that's why the SL is sold out.
The two CARS don't really compare, the SL is superior in almost every way. A few tenths different to 60 mph (figures are showing both cars faster than the other, depending on the source) doesn't mean much to the crowd that buys this type of car.
M
Then again, given the choice, I'd pick the SL, sell it, buy a SC and the most recent NSX I could find for whatever I had left, and call it a day.
The fact that so many people find the SC430 to be in a league comparable to the SL500 is a tribute to Lexus considering the price differential.
I've owned the SC since last June 26th. The vehicle performs well and does all that Lexus claims. It's quick, fun to drive and Lexus service is exemplary. The navigation system is simple to operate and accurate. The stereo is fantastic and the "WOW" appeal to spectators has always been quite evident.
For a great touring roadster it's hard to beat the SC430. If I was going to spend in excess of 100K for a vehicle, I'd opt for the Ferrari which does, and always will, have more class and sex appeal than the SL.
M
If I were going to pay "50 large" more for a car to replace my SC430, I would hope that it would be a little faster and handle a little better, so I am not surprised that the SL tests out better in those areas.
What is a surprise is how close the cars are in size, performance, features, etc., which I think is why people are comparing them so closely (that, plus the fact that there are not a whole lot of hardtop/convertibles out there.)
For some people, price does matter, and for 50 more, I'd like a big upgrade and something more than just another pretty face.
M
I think the SL500 market price is high due to the huge demand encouraging everyone to mark it up. It is a highly desirable car with a long waiting list.
The SL500's interior is nice, check out one with the light cream interior (called stone) with the darker walnut wood, much better than the SC430's light interior with the yellow wood.
I think the difference between the two cars is significant, the active suspension and electronic brakes (automatically drying the pads in the wet! and offering the first true 4 wheel individual braking vastly improving active safety, etc). With all the safety technology which happens to also enhance performance, the $25,000 is totally worthwhile in my opinion.
Of course, YMMV and it all depends on how much you value safety and performance.
Fact of the matter is, I wish the SC430's light cream interior is offered with their rich, dark wood, that would be a really nice colour combination.
Too bad you feel that I'm trashing the SC430, I just wanted to share some of the virtue of the SL500 which one would not realize unless one has the opportunity to go through an extensive test drive (which is rare given the long waiting list). What I enjoy about the SL500 is the handling, much more so than the looks or engineering of the roof.
You have fun with your SC430, if its stereo sounds as good as my friend's GS430, it's the best out there in the market.
M
your friend, the Lexus snob,
Carnaught
topgun7,
I'll say I haven't driven the newest SL. I'm stating it's better based purely on it's specs and engineering achievements over the old SL, of which I have driven. I thought the old SL was a better car than the SC430, and the new one is a better car going by the people I know that have driven it and/or own Mercedes. The SC430 vs Miata really doesn't apply here because they aren't aimed at the same group, the SC and SL are. No I don't think the SL is worth 40K more than the Lexus. Some of that is pure Mercedes fluff, but based on the waiting lists for the SL I'd say the price difference hasn't even been noticed. Afterall neither of these cars are "bargains" or "value" purchases. Nobody needs a 2-seat car for 60K or 90K. They're indulgent items, negating the "value" question for many.
M
I picked up my 2003 SL500 a few weeks ago at MSRP with zero option (I put my name down on the list over a year ago). My comparison with the SL500 and the SC430 will be flawed as I have not had the chance to test drive the SC430. I'm obviously a car enthusiast, not only do I frequent many message boards similar to this to hear out others experience, I often like to take cars out for extensive test drives as a weekend hobby when I have time.
I feel that the SL500 is of excellent value as I'm the performance oriented driver and I can take full advantage of the latest active safety enhancements in the new SL.
What I most appreciate in the new SL is that with 'regular' 17 inch tires, the car has very little body roll. Even without the harsh riding wide low profile tires and stiff suspension, the SL handles extremely well. I smile every time I take a corner quickly always impressed by the car's stability. The current active suspension technology really makes a huge difference, I test drove the new BMW 745i and it also has very little lean. I enjoy the fact that I can enjoy the brilliant cornering power yet don't have to live with the ill side effects of an aggressive suspension/tire setup (car too easily affected by road irregularity, harsh and noisy ride, etc.)
Another amazing technology I appreciate in the SL is the brake by wire set up. When braking in a turn, the new SBC brake system is intelligent enough to give the outer brakes more boost at the same time reducing the braking power of the inner brakes to balance the car's deceleration dynamics. What it means is that the car is much more stable when braking in a turn especially in marginal conditions. I have tested this (in the wet) and can vouch its effectiveness. The SBC brakes are also supposed to automatically dry the wet brake pads making them more effective in the rain.
Regardless, after all this discussion, I think I must try to arrange a test drive of the SC430 tomorrow..
The SC430 is a great car and I failed to order one in advance back then. I think when it first came out a few months ago, it could command the same premium like the SL now, although the interest has somewhat quiet down recently. If I were to use cash to buy the SC430 at this moment, I suspect I would lose more money in depreciation than the SL500, making it actually more expensive to own.
But my point is that car price should reflect the feature, drivability etc. about a car. When you pay more for a car, you should expect it to be better. If not, why bother. So my expectation is that SL should be better than SC given the price differential. Sharing personal experience about the SL is great. I think that is how we learn if SL is a good car to own or not (but is it more appropriate to be in SL forum?). I just don't believe what the auto magazine said since they have no 'skin' in passing the judgement. And I don't see any reason to repeat them in the forum. I think most of us read them and already decide if we believe their words or not. Repeating them does not give me any additional information.
By the way, I use my monthly ownership cost not the msrp to determine if a car is expensive or not. We lease our SC for $810 a month. I figured if I were to lease an SL, it would be about $1,400 or so a month for 48month 15K/yr lease. I also owned a 2000 Olds Alero and a 2001 Deville DTS. The Alero cost us about $500 per month (cash perchase) and the caddy is about $790/month (0% finance). With this kind of ownership cost, I think the SC is by far the most fun per dollar of all 3 cars we own. I am not sure how much SL has to be better before I think that I should have an SL rather than an SC (is SL 70% better than an SC???). Anyhow, I will go check out the car and the SL forum. Who know may be we can get out of the SC lease without paying anything out of our pocket 8-)
I am confused by what is perceived as truth. Topgun says he reads the reviews in the automotive magazines (as opposed to the newspaper articles, which are reprints of the manufacturers' press releases), but he does not "believe" them for reasons that are not clear (skin??).
I read the auto magazines because they contain factual information, much of it objectively determinable, about new cars that is not available elsewhere. Road & Track and Car & Driver, to mention two widely read magazines, have a high credibility factor. (They often point out when their tests do not match published manufacturer specs, such as 0-60 times.) These guys do not want to get their facts wrong. So if they say one car has more horsepower or bigger brakes, I believe it. And if comparison tests show higher cornering ability in the stock configuration, I believe it. When one of those publications said the new SL was one of the most sophisticated examples of automotive engineering on the road today, even though the sound system was average, I believe it, and all of this information helps me determine if I am interested in owing (or even respecting) the car.
Subjective expressions concerning styling are obviously judgments which are not subject to a true/false test, except, of course, as to whether the stated opinion is in fact the actual opinion of the author. I may not always agree with him, but I believe him when he says he does not like the looks of the Aztec.
Therefore, what I think topgun means is that he does not always agree with the opinions expressed, or maybe he means that the opinions expressed are of no use to him due to his circumstances. I don't think he really means he thinks the stats are fabricated.
Then, as I read down the page, I see inmate #4381007 indicate a belief that in a statement made by "Lexus" which indicated that the rear seat in the SC is to allow it to import more than 2500 cars annually. Where did this come from? Is there a new import (or export) limit on 2 seaters that someone imposed when we weren't looking? Does Porsche know about this? Someone should tell BMW to stop selling Boxters right now.
(I was under the impression that insurance rates, for reasons that few understand, are lower for even high powered cars with marginal back seats as in the SC, and that the space was configured as a seat rather than as just a shelf to save us some money.)
So here we have two loyal readers who, as a team, do not believe the mainstream automotive press, but buy whatever story du jour pops out of the showroom.
Help. Now I don't know what to believe.
The number one comparo I would do here is the SC430 to the SC300. Fair?! NOT EVEN! A used SC300 is right up there with the SVX and 240SX and other schweet coupes from the 1990s.
Lexus vs. Benz? Not even a road I wanna take, especially with Benz styling these days.
Is that another Porsche 911 look-alike?
And then what's that little BMW? Is that the Sprite?
I'm having trouble and need help.
I shoulda boughta Buick like my dear old dad.
I know when my wife and I leased the SC, I read every post in the old SC430 forum in Edmunds and the forum in clublexus. I test drove the car twice and since we have 4 lexus before, we kind of know what the dealership experience is like. The personal experience that we shared here help me a great deal more than the car magazie articles. I am going off to read the SL forum to see how the SL do. May be the SL is 70% to 80% better than a sc. In which case, I better find an additional job to pay for the difference. Who said mid life crisis is terrible..Heh Heh!
Anybody here want to sell their SC430? We're in Orange County, CA.
I'm one who doesn't mind the "garbage can lid" wheels which come with the car, but at least would like them chromed or in chrome.
M
Consumer Rating
9.8
True Market Value:
$79,143 - $122,816
What Edmunds Says: The most technologically advanced two-seater currently sold (despite its navigation system).
Pros: Seductive style, retractable hardtop, commendable performance, ride and handling.
Cons: Heavy for a "sports car", limited cargo capacity, nav system is old-tech CD-rom format.
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2002 Lexus SC 430 Luxury Convertible
Consumer Rating
9.1
True Market Value:
$61,117
What Edmunds Says: This is the bragging rights car du jour, and if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of driving dynamics for the latest cool gadgetry, this is the car for you.
Pros: Luxurious comfort and convenience features, avant-garde styling, wonderful engine performance, retractable hard-top, Lexus quality.
Cons: Sparse cargo space, cramped (nearly useless) rear seats.
M
The little kids love it back there;
my groceries prefer it to the trunk, and it's much easier to put them there when the top is down;
my briefcase loves it back there, and my gym bag rides there all the time;
the doggie bag rides home there from the swell restaurant that served me too much food last Saturday night,
and it's pretty good luggage space for a trip to the beach.
I would like a bigger back seat, of course, like the seats in my old SC430, but if I wanted a 4 passenger car, I would have bought one. I consider the SC430 a two passenger car, and find the back useful on occassion. If the configuration were as a two seater, like a boxter or an SLK, or even the SL500, then the option to use that space is gone, and the car is less versitile.
. . . and what's the alternative, making the less accessible trunk a little larger?
I got no complaints.
M
"The little kids love it back there;"
Goodness, hardly a viable place to stash kids under 3 for any length of time... unless they are being punished ;-)
"my groceries prefer it to the trunk, and it's much easier to put them there when the top is down;"
Because the trunk can't hold many groceries in the first place. Kind of a waste of two sculpted leather seats, don't you think? Believe the SL500 "shelf" behind the seats will do quite a decent job holding grocery bags.
"my briefcase loves it back there, and my gym bag rides there all the time;"
Does a briefcase or gym bag really know it's riding on a useless seat, or would it be as comfortable on a carpeted "shelf"? Seems like a waste of good leather!
"the doggie bag rides home there from the swell restaurant that served me too much food last Saturday night,"
Probably the silliest reason I've ever heard to have useless seats ;-)
"and it's pretty good luggage space for a trip to the beach."
Again, hardly a reason not to consider a true 2-seater. A primary reason for the back seat in this car, as stated by merc1, is to reduce insurance fees for the vehicle. Have not checked, but guessing the SC430 is cheaper to insure than the SL (discounting the obvious replacement cost differential due to sticker differences)
A 2-seater does not necessarily mean useless space behing the front seats. The Corvette has over 20 cu. ft. of storage in the Coupe. Believe the back seat has little to do with the decision to drive the SC430... it's a very emotional decision vs. pragmatic. In our home, my wife would love the SC... I would lean toward the SL. Both very nice, just would rather be a passenger in the SC with my wife driving.
Saw a red SC with pale ivory interior at the Atlanta Auto Show... couldn't get the image of Elton John driving this car down Peachtree out of my head. Not a "man's" car! Beautifully finished machine, however.
And the point he made about the seats was . . .
well.. . .
er . . .
Let me read it again when I have the time and I'll get back to you.
The area behind the front seats in the 2003 SL is lined with leather with a pair of "luggage belts" for securing luggage, much roomier than the SLK or the Boxter.
Let's take that out of the equation right now.