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Comments
-juice
1. Gas light comes on way too prematurely.
2. Along the back door where the Honda badge is (the strip right under the window), I have at least 10 dents (impressions) that run all along the strip of sheetmetal. Nothing has ever hit the car to make these dents. It's as if the sheet metal was poorly designed and it dents it self with motion or opening or closing of the door. I want to take it in, but not sure what they can do. Anyone else with this problem of a self denting car?
Has anyone seen what Havasu Blue looks like? This color is due out Spring 2002.
Thanks.
Opinion for Opus: I would not spend $16,500USD for a '99 Odyssey with 93,000 miles (that's a USD equivalent roughly 2/3 the cost of a new LX, based on gess's follow-up post), unless there was no way to afford more. Since you are considering spending another $10,000CDN to buy a used EX, I am thinking a restricted budget is not an issue for you. The warranty on the Odyssey being what it is (fairly weak on powertrain), and the improvements being what they are in the '02 (significant), I think it would be in your best interest to spring for a new one. The EX has a lot of extra stuff, but most of it is insignificant. For $600USD, you can add Honda alloys keeping the standard steel rims as winter wheels. A few hundred more will put in a superior stereo. The power doors are a potential headache down the line, and in my opinion, dangerous if you have small children.
The often wacky asking prices for used Odysseys is great news for us owners, but you have to be the Barnum, not the sucker he spoke about.
A comparison to this would be AWD, does having AWD give some drivers more confidence than they should have? Yes, it does, but does that mean that AWD is not better than either FWD or RWD? Probably not. Given that the driver respects his/'her options and drives accordingly, AWD is still better to have (in terms of safety). Same goes with the power sliders. As usual, education about these conveniences is a better solution than putting blame on them.
BTW, I did test out the reverse-sensors on my sliders, started out with my forearm, then tried my hand. The doors do put a little squeeze on the hand, probably to a child it would hurt, but nothing that would cause dismembermant or broken bones (I hope).
rockycow
1. I very rarely need to open my shower door while holding an armful of groceries (only need two fingers to press the button for the power slider).
2. Sometimes I want the van door to open as I'm making my way towards the vehicle, so I can more quickly escape a rain shower. When I open the door to my shower, it's because I *want* to get wet.
3. When I'm traveling with small kids who may have trouble opening (and closing) a minivan sliding door by themselves, having the electric sliders is a great time saver and hassle ender. When I'm opening the shower door, it's usually because I'm the only one going in or out.
We have an EX, and think the power sliders are the best thing since sliced bread. Nineteen months of operation, one very energetic and strong-willed five year old, and no safety concerns.
I also have to take issue with you on the auto sliding doors being the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think that would go to the radio, TV, telephone, computer, microwave....
Seattle Todd: If you sat in the third row yourself, and you now know it's not comfortable, are you hoping some short people will tell you that it's comfortable for them?
INKY
Very few third seats are going to be very comfortable for adults over long distances. No minivans third seats will be. If you want that feature perhaps the largest GM SUV Suburban, would work and also full size vans.
A minivan is just not large enough to give you that feature and if you really want it a minivan is not for you.
It's fine for adults on short trips. We've also had our teenage niece and cousin in the back for long trips and they said it was great. I wouldn't want to sit there for a long trip personally, though. As you said, if you have long legs, the shorter seat height will leave your knees higher than one of the captain's chairs.
We've had manual doors on vehicles for years, with no safety concerns.
Yes, injuries can happen. In fact, they can happen on power doors, too (see the NHTSA complaints database and the "other" Odyssey club to see various complaints).
In the end, if you like em, get 'em. If not, don't. I wouldn't sweat the differences over a perceived difference in safety, though.
I took their OdyEX for a test drive when it had 3,000 miles after they had me take them to the airport in it (with their permission to take the longer route home). It drove very nicely at speeds up to 80 MPH. We test drove a 2002 Ody EX-Nav-L Dec 29,2001 and feel the 2002 is even nicer and quieter than 2001 and the 1999 we test drove.
Seattle Todd: Your description of the third row seats promted me to go to my garage and climb back there (something I had planned to avoid for the life of the vehicle). Being 6'2", I found it to be as described above: comfortable for short trips, probably more than fine for kids. I wouldn't want to spend a long trip back there, although that would greatly depend upon who else was up front. Sometimes pain is a relative thing.
I now have 1,100 miles and so far, so perfect. Although I must add that my '99 Grand Caravan had nary a rattle until 14,000 miles. From that point on it seemingly self-immolated. I do not expect that to happen with the Honda.
If you're looking, the Extended Olds GM van has very comfortable 3rd row seats in my opinion, and I'm 6' tall. The back is high enough and it has headrests so you can sleep. Also the front seats are both 8 way power on the GLS, and the leather is nice.
Plus, you can get auto-leveling in Olds, and I am getting 23.3 mpg around town commuting in Houston traffic. Honda has many advantages, but for comfort and fuel milage, check the Olds.
DD
I rode for some distance in my sister's 2001 Ody EX in the 3rd row seat while 2nd row seating was pushed all the way to the rear. I feel it would be comfortable for me to ride there as long as in about any seat in any vehicle.
The Odyssey has twice as much space behind the 3rd seat for luggage, etc. than any other minivan if the rear seats of each minivan is positioned as far to the rear as they will go.
None of the 3rd rows are truly comfy, but I found the Ody's were the least offensive.
-juice
tranny and let it drain. It takes about 3 qts. to refill, there is no filter to replace
and the tranny holds about 7 qts. I doesn't seem to be a big deal.
But, make sure the dealer puts in Honda ATF not some other brand. The owner's
manual for the 2000 Ody specifically says use ONLY Honda ATF. When I had the
tranny service done at my dealer, I saw them put in Castrol ATF. I complained to
the service manager telling him about using only Honda ATF. He got a bottle of
the Honda ATF and it looked and smelled differently from the Castrol. He agreed
to do the service again draining the 3 qts. and refilling it with the Honda ATF.
The reason I am so concerned about using Honda ATF is the experience of
the Chryler/Dodge minivans problems with their trannies. Apparently Chrysler
specifically used a specially formulated ATF and a lot of owners used generic ATF
which didn't a special slip characteristic. A lot of Chrysler/Dodge minvans lost
trannies at about 75K.
I guess the only protection I have from that is my Extended Warranty. The dealer that sells you the warranty signs up to cover all the costs on that warranty, in return for his profit. He therefore has some incentive to do things right. I should add that is the way it use to be done anyway. Maybe its not done that way now. I don't have to worry for 7 years anyway.
The other thing is the Honda dealer would be the least likely of any of the auto repair shops to give you non Honda fluids.
I use to take my auto to a non dealer and watch the young guys miss grease joints, add the wrong oil, and add a quart too much oil.
My best solution is to let the dealers do the work as it has been shown that they do it best and then not worry about it. It is too time consuming for me to do it myself, which is the only way you know 100% it is done right.
Regarding Honda's requirement of special Honda-specific fluids, they have always been unique in that regard. They have required special power steering fluid in the past, and the Odyssey now requires 5W-20 oil. The owner's manual says it's OK to use 5W-30 as long as you switch back to 5W-20 on the next change. I can't imagine a dealer would have 5W-20 in a bulk tank, so it's easy to verify that they have the bottles in the parts department. Verifying that they actually use them on your van is another story.
Mechanic error, whether it's a dealer or independent is common. Most "mistakes" are more likely to cause problems down the road than immediate failures. My friend's dealer-serviced '95 Accord needed a master cylinder and wheel cylinders as well as a radiator at around 75K miles. I would bet it was poor quality or contaminated fluid that led to those failures rather than normal wear. I have also experienced first hand and read about warped rotors due to overtorqued lug nuts. An impact wrench is never supposed to be used to tighten lug nuts, unless special adaptor sticks are used to control the torque. Very few use the sticks and almost all mechanics use the impact wrenches. Another area is flat repair: every tire manufacturer advises against using plugs, but they are still commonly used vs. an off-the-rim patching system.
It is very hard to police a mechanic or dealer without coming across as a huge pain.
Many dealers buy bottled fluids from suppliers that stock name-brand and generic product. Who hasn't seen the Prestone-look-alike jugs of antifreeze sold in gas stations? There's a lot of junk out there, and a lot of dealers who buy on price. I once got a brake job at a Ford dealer who only revealed that the brake kit wasn't Ford (Motorcraft) when I asked. They wanted even more money to use the Ford parts. Don't assume the dealer default is the Honda brand part. Always ask. Same goes for body panels. My friend's Accord has an aftermarket door skin that shimmies like a piece of aluminum foil when the door is slammed shut.
Minivans win here, easily, perhaps with the exception of the enormous Excursion.
-juice
2 questions:
1. Is this normal at 35k for virtually no towing (100 miles ttl with a lawn tractor on a trailer)and normal driving and there is a Honda tranny cooler installed? Seems severe.
2. Dealer performed "tranny service". On the work order shows 3qts fluid replaced. Owners manual shows 3.1 for a change and 7.6 ttl. Called the shop and asked for an explanation. Service writer explained that they can only change the 3.1 qts the other 4.5qts are in the torque converter and it cannot be drained w/o removing the tranny. So basically they only change 1/2 the fluid or dilute the dirty and burned with 1/2 new, so the net result is that the fluid is not quite as dirty and burned. I have heard that on some cars they can actually do a power flush of the tranny fluid that changes all of it. Wondering if this what I should have asked for?
I would follow the owners manual however. If you had a power flush and I notice places like Sears( My Sears does offer it anyway) and a number of independents are now doing this, it would have removed all the fluid.
If the owners manual does not recommend this I would not do it, normally. However if the fluid was really burnt, I would. You can find an independent place that does things like oil changes and brake jobs that will do a power flush for you at a lower cost then the dealer. Maybe even a place like Jiffy lube will. I am guessing it will cost you about $50.
The dealer charged $28 for the 3 quart swap. Figuring $4/qt. or $12 for material, leaves $16 for labor (roughly 1/4 or 1/5 of an hour labor rate, depending on location). This is certainly cheap enough, but is really not doing justice to the transmission. It'll still last a long time, certainly past the lame 36K powertrain warranty, which is all Honda really aims to do.
Most dealers don't invest in flushing equipment because it is expensive, and they think their customers will feel like they're getting hosed if the transmission service is around $100. They can make more profit doing it half-assed (and half-fast) for $28, and give the customer the illusion of being very fair-priced. My other car is a Subaru, and the dealer wanted $50 for the standard "drain & refill", something I could do in my driveway in 15 minutes for under $10 in fluid.
When I saw what the flushed-out fluid looked like in the clear chamber of the machine, I knew that the flush is by far the best way to do it.
Thanks again.
I know as long as the fluid is not burnt it should be OK, even the way the dealer does it. If the dealer has the Complete Flush I think I may get it every other time, per the owners manual.
If you don't use Honda fluid I would think that would void the Honda warranty and then you would need the other warranty.
appears to be a Chrysler now. I liked the Odyssey test drive on dry roads, and I like the appointments
inside. However, I am concerned about the performance of this FWD van on snowy, and sometimes
icy, roads. I realize it won't match the Aerostar in that regard - but I am interested to hear the
experiences of others.
Thanks from frozen NH!
A full flush is the best, but if the fluid isn't particularly dirty and it doesn't smell burnt, then the drain and refill of 3 or so quarts is sufficient for 30K service.