Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

socalawd · July 2005

So now lets look at some of the things that makes things easier for people who owns the two vans. If your carrying eight people, the Honda is better. Dodge only carries seven. If your carrying a lot of stuff, Dodge is easier, the second and third row seats will stow, Honda owners have to take their second row seats out.

Only if you have 3 or less passengers in the van. I think stow and go is great for people like Marine retired with grandkids. It his family hauler and truck. Now I have no use for this my best friend has a truck and I always go places with my 3 kids.

Keeping the vans cool. I am sure both have good a/c in them. But Honda doesn't have the rear wing windows to open, to allow even flow of a/c all through the van. The Dodge does. Honda has the second row windows that open half way down. But that doesn't help circulate the a/c and is only useful if you stop in a drive-in restaurant to hang a tray on to it. Most people don't drive with their windows open because of pollution. Advantage Dodge.

Maybe?? I think it's better if you want to flow air thru the car and out but how do you know which one cool faster did you test it?? If your out in Mission Viejo stop by for a beer and we'll park or cars and see which one get colder faster. I can go up to my car and turn the key in the door leave it for 3 seconds and all the windows go down great for letting out the heat!!

Auto door locks, standard on Dodge. Honda doesn't even offer it either

You can lock your own doors if you want!! Some people like this feature some don't! I lock mine been in the habit for 20 years(put on seatbelt lock doors check)

Overhead computer, universal garage door opener, compus. Dodge has it, Honda doesn't

Mine has universal garage door opener!! I'd like a trip computer but really it's only a toy. How about a maintenance minder you got that??

Air bags. Honda offers front and side as standard, Side bags on Dodge are extra. But Dodge has driver's knee protector air bag as standard, Honda doesn't offer it at all.

Can you point me at a site that tells of the advantages of this, I'm sure it's better than not!! Now I've seen some data on VSC(Dodge dosen't have it) and it's preliminary but it may be the one of the biggest saftety invention in quite some time!!

Turn signal warning to drivers or pedestrians coming up on van, that someone is exiting side doors. Dodge has them, Honda doesn't offer it.

My kids exit the curb side!! Do people know that since the turn signal is on that peaple are coming out!! The door being open is a big clue too me.

Am/Fm radio with both CD and cassette with steering wheel controls,can be had on mid priced Dodge. Not sure if Honda offers both on any model.

Mine has radio controls on steering wheel. Ex and above have 6 disc CD changer. Thats a 200.00 dollar up grade from dodge!Can you still buy cassettes?? I haven't had any of them since 1990!!

nwng · July 2005

please remember the term feature for feature, not price it against a base SXT. And now it's $10k??? I could get a SXT equipped like a ody ex for $16k?

As with your hp comment, I see that you had never driven a 05 ody

nwng · July 2005

When I first bought the ody, i thought the second row middle seat is such a gimmick and even with a seat belt, who would sat in it? I've owned the van for about 4 months now and I lost count how many times I have eight people in the van.

As with the rear qtr vent, nothing gets the heat out of the van faster than rolling down all four windows when driving.

I believe dodge will have a vsc system in their vans soon, as well as standard 3 row curtain bags. Maybe they will only offer it in the higher line models, cause they have to keep the cost of their fleet vans low.

socalawd · July 2005

please remember the term feature for feature, not price it against a base SXT. And now it's $10k??? I could get a SXT equipped like a ody ex for $16k?

Looked at the dodge web sire I equiped a SXT with side airbags and 6 disk CD. It also came with power hatch(part of a package) But has no driver power door stardard on ex. Price 24,203 this is with employee discount + 2000.00 dollars dealer cash. I think in Ca and some other states you pay tax licencing on this rebate before it is taken off. Arnold please change this!! This employee discount thing dosen't sound as good as I've heard!!

The EX is selling for 26,500 on carsdirect.com

Ok now we are at 2,297.00 @ 2% interest whats the 5 year payoff!! Then we have the depreciation. What will it be, I wish I knew but history says that Honda holds better value. Actually Dodge has one of the worst resale value history!!

masterpaul1 · July 2005

Mine has universal garage door opener!! I'd like a trip computer but really it's only a toy. How about a maintenance reminder you got that??

I don't believe the 2005's do. I think that's a waste of time and money though. I check all the fluids on both of are vechicles and just go buy the maintenance record schedule. To be honest, most vechicles today require less maintenance then back in a day. You change the air filters, spark plugs and wires, coolant, trans. fluid, oil, check AC, brakes, all belts. How hard can that be to keep up with. Cars of today make us so lazy with some of the features we have and just put's more money in the dealers pocket. When your reminder maintenance light comes on, can the light be turned off by you or does it have to be taken to the dealer?

Can you point me at a site that tells of the advantages of this, I'm sure it's better than not!! Now I've seen some data on VSC(Dodge doesn't have it) and it's preliminary but it may be the one of the biggest safety invention in quite some time!!

VSC is a good safety feature, but it only works when you are losing control of the vechicle while pressing the gas paddle. It does not operate when braking, which is what most people due to avoid hitting someone else. Just look at the commercials for those vechicles that have them in their advertisement. The vechicle A is going forward and a vechicle B moves in the path of vechicle A. Instead of vechicle A braking they go around vechicle B without sliding out of control because the VSC kicked in. I've been driving for over 15 yrs and have owned 5 cars and driven other of all sizes. I have never lost control of any of my vechicles and when avoiding accidents, I was braking. Again, I'm not saying VSC is not a good safety feature, it should be standard on all vechicles, but I think a lot of people are misinformed or just don't know how it works and in what conditions.

Mine has radio controls on steering wheel. Ex and above have 6 disc CD changer. Thats a 200.00 dollar up grade from dodge!Can you still buy cassettes?? I haven't had any of them since 1990!!

I still have my cassettes from the 90's and still play them. Once in a while I record music off our satelite dish to cassettes to listen to while driving.

My kids exit the curb side!! Do people know that since the turn signal is on that people are coming out!! The door being open is a big clue too me.

You wouldn't believe some of the dumbest things people due. It an added safety feature. :P

hansienna · July 2005

Please post. I have NOT written the GC SXT off my short list yet and need to drive one to feel the difference in the 3.8L vs 3.3L. (215 HP vs 180 HP and 245 lb-ft vs 210 lb-ft).
I definitely felt the difference in the 2004 Sienna 242 lb-ft @ the low RPM of 3600 vs my T&C LX 3.3L 210 lb-ft that develops at a significantly higher RPM.

marine2 · July 2005

It's nice to remember to always lock your doors when traveling, but some people forget. It happened to a woman here in my town over a year ago. She was going to work early in the morning and stopped for a light. A vagrant ran over and opened the passenger door, took her out in the desert, raped and killed her. Auto door locks should be standard on all vehicles.

Yes, I still have cassettes. I have a collection of the best of 50's,60's 70's and 80's, plus a bunch of the Best of Country. And yes, I can also upgrade to a six CD changer, but didn't want to as this came standard and I like to play my cassettes, along with my CDs.

I agree with you on the VSC. Every vehicle should have it.

The battery saver is almost a must on a minivan with all those overhead lights and kids that can play around and turn one on. It saved my butt a week after buying my van.

While I also roll down my windows when first starting my van up and turning on the a/c. in Arizona's 110 plus heat. It is easy to notice with people sitting in the back the better air flow when the vent windows are open. It helps keep the air flowing all the way to the rear passengers. Keeps the van cooler so you don't need to keep it on high. I am sure Honda owners noticed that on older Honda's. Not sure why Honda changed it. Wasn't the smartest move.

masterpaul1 · July 2005

The battery saver is almost a must on a minivan with all those overhead lights and kids that can play around and turn one on. It saved my butt a week after buying my van.

I second that. Even though we only have two front map lights, a second and third row light. There have been times when the older kids are standing up walking thru the second row captain chairs, have accidently turned the light on by bumping it with their head. (Only the second row light can be turned on and off by pushing it. The third row comes on when opening the doors or turning on all the interior lights with the switch by the driver.) One time the light stayed on for a few days because I didn't notice it was on since it was daytime. Having this power saver feature is very nice. I like the automatic door looks as well, since there are a lot of times that the kids don't lock their doors or I forget to look all the doors before driving off.

socalawd · July 2005

Cars of today make us so lazy with some of the features we have and just put's more money in the dealers pocket. When your reminder maintenance light comes on, can the light be turned off by you or does it have to be taken to the dealer?

Yeah I can turn it off whenever I feel like it. I think its a neat feature to see whats coming up next and when. Tell you remaining time on oil and what should be done. Personally I change my oil alot sooner than that I'm thinking about 30% left would be good. Nice to know my wife can't just blow it off!! My life is so crazy I think it will be nice!!

VSC is a good safety feature, but it only works when you are losing control of the vechicle while pressing the gas paddle.Well that's not exactly how it works it looks at where your steering compared to where the car is gooing!!!So I'm giving you a link!! This is simplified but you get a good idea!!

link title

I have never lost control of any of my vechicles and when avoiding accidents, I was braking.

Well I've done the spin o rama a time or two happened before I even put my foot on the brake. Once it was raining I came around this curve too fast and wham. There was a ditch on one side and a big cliff with a lake below on the other. As I was spinning I was hopeing for the ditch, boy was I happy thats what I got!!

I still have my cassettes from the 90's and still play them.

Sorry that was a bad crack on my part!! Mine melted(The whole box),set them too close to a fireplace in the late 80's never got anymore!! First time with CD changer in car it's very nice!! The only thing I'd like in my Honda is a BIG OLD American Center console with storage for my crap think F150. Now I have this damn flip up tray!! Looks like it should be on a seatback of a jet!!

marine2 · July 2005

I second that. Even though we only have two front map lights, a second and third row light. There have been times when the older kids are standing up walking thru the second row captain chairs, have accidently turned the light on by bumping it with their head. (Only the second row light can be turned on and off by pushing it. The third row comes on when opening the doors or turning on all the interior lights with the switch by the driver.)

On the Dodge, there are six overhead lights. Two being map lights above the driver. there are two for both the second and third row passengers. All can be turned on or off by bushing the lens in. You can also turn them all on or off by panel switch or opening the door. But if you push one on, it must be pushed off. The week after getting the van, the kids pushed all four on and left them on. I didn't think about it as when I got them home I expected them to be on as the kids opened the door and they fade out after the door is shut. I expected them to do just that. Well they didn't fade out. But thank God the battery saver turned them off after 25? minutes. I didn't notice it till the next day I got in the van, closed the door and the lights stayed on. I reached and turned the switch on the dash thinking that had them all on. When that didn't shut them off, I went in the back and pushed on the lenses and they went out. If that battery saver wasn't on the van, I would have been sunk.

macakava · July 2005

If you drive with a lead foot like those of us who like sporty, energetic driving, the VCM would not kick in that frequently or any at all. You would only get 255HP when firing on all cylinders.

For me, my priority is HP output, not fuel consumption. I believe those fuel consumption numbers came from EPA ratings which I DO NOT expect to duplicate in my driving.

dennisctc · July 2005

still have my cassettes from the 90's and still play them. Once in a while I record music off our satelite dish to cassettes to listen to while driving.

You're like 3 generations behind now!!!! Get an iPod and get into the 21st century!!!

I love mine, and play it thru my FM via iTrip

dennisctc · July 2005

please remember the term feature for feature, not price it against a base SXT. And now it's $10k??? I could get a SXT equipped like a ody ex for $16k?

As with your hp comment, I see that you had never driven a 05 ody

I'm NOT going to go thru the $10k difference again, check my previous postings.

I drove 05 Oddys MANY MANY times, I was 2nd person at local Honda dealer driving 05 on first day of availability to the public. I went to a total of about 5 local dealers as to not bug any one of them, to drive the new Oddy. The Oddys are very nice beyond a doubt, but for my specific needs i.e..towing large popup, dogs, home improvements etc...The DCX was best.

In the end, a DCX employee/friend gave me one of his employee pricing number late last year. That E Price plus all incentives (plus lousy Honda attitude) skewed me into DCX camp. I don't think an Oddy is worth the price of admission (be it $5k or $10k dif), it's not that significantly superior to warrant the huge $$$ difference and attitude of Honda dealers.

Those that rave about sports car like handling....I laugh, a FWD box on wheels, be it Honda, Toyota or DCX is not fun. They're all appliances

socalawd · July 2005

I don't think an Oddy is worth the price of admission (be it $5k or $10k dif), it's not that significantly superior to warrant the huge $$$ difference and attitude of Honda dealers.

Probably more like 3 grand!! The 2005 Honda is project by Money/Kiplingers and Edmunds to have the best residual value. Dodges Caravan sales are down 23% from last years June numbers!! So much for market share!! The T&C is on the upswing!! I'm sorry you were treated poorly, people should be more civil!! My experience was like that in only 1 of the 4 Honda Dealers I visited. When honda send me a servey about my experience I told them all about it! Hopefully someone will do something, if you went right after the model came out I'm sure the dealers didn't want to talk price!! I looked at the 300C at a Chrysler dealership on habor blvd they were like if we can get you one the markup is 2G's. Dealerships are ran by people some are good and some are bad, people should find this out for themselves! A good dealer makes for a fine car purchase!!

Those that rave about sports car like handling....I laugh, a FWD box on wheels, be it Honda, Toyota or DCX is not fun. They're all appliances

I do like the way it handles and the interior /exterior. I don't spend much of my time laughing at other people opinions. I find mine to be funny enough!!

nwng · July 2005

yea, if the DCX costs $16k equipped similarly, no matter how good the ody is, i would have picked the DCX.

As with the VSC, I suppose where you live you don't see snow. You don't have to do much to induce a slide when you drive in snow and VSC helps to point the van back to the direction where I want to go.

socalawd · July 2005

Maybe people on this board are right about this recall thing! Here's some recent news from Autooninfo.com.

The Chrysler Group of DaimlerChrysler AG is recalling 70,000 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country minivans, for a latch that may get stuck in the unopened position and consequently prevent proper closure and permit an unintended opening while the vehicle is in operation. The Chrysler Group said that a new liftgate control module will solve the problem.

Source for recall information: "Chrysler Group Orders Minivan Recall," the Associated Press, April 8, 2005, available at Yahoo! News

Here's a recent investigation!!

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has upgraded its investigation of 813,597 2001-2002 Chrysler Town & Country, Dodge Caravan, and Plymouth Voyager minivans for headlight failure. The upgrade follows 704 complaints and 33,539 warranty claims.

Now thats alot of claims!! Wonder why I haven't seen anything on Edmunds???

Now on the upside looks like DCX will pay less for one of its lawsuits

After a finding that DaimlerChrysler knowingly built minivan front seats prone to collapse on some or all rear end collisions, a Tennessee jury awarded the parents of a child whose skull was fractured as a result of such collapsing seat $7.5 million for actual damages (wrongful death and emotional distress) and $98 million for punitive damages, the latter to dissuade the company from knowingly manufacturing such seats. The judge decided that $20,000,000 was enough dissuasion and lowered the punitive damage award accordingly. As a general rule, jury-awarded punitive damages exceeding three times actual damages are difficult to hold on to

dennisctc · July 2005

Thank you for being so concerned about us Dodge owners, it's nice to know you care so much!!!! What did you find on Oddys???

hansienna · July 2005

Did Edmund's print the front A/C condensor problem with the 2005 Ody? or does Edmunds just inform us of a significant problem?

Why does any responsible parent let children ride BEHIND the 3rd row of seats without a seat belt? No child can fall out the back it the liftgate comes up if the parent has as many brains as a chicken.

sebring95 · July 2005

Dodge has a power saver, which shuts off power to over head lights if one or more is left on, or if door is not shut tight. Honda doesn't even offer it. From the complaints I've read of dead batteries on the Honda, many Honda owners wish they did.

That's not correct. The Honda will shut-off the interior lights after 30 minutes if a door is not shut completely. It does not however, shut-off a single interior light that was turned on manually and left on after the doors are shut. It takes some time to drain the battery with one light, but it is a concern and can happen. I've tried to watch more closely when getting out of the vehicle.

Auto door locks, standard on Dodge. Honda doesn't even offer it either

Also incorrect. It's standard on the touring model and programmable through the MID (multi-information display).

Overhead computer, universal garage door opener, compus. Dodge has it, Honda doesn't.

Also incorrect. Honda EX and above have home-link which will operate upto three garage doors. Compass is included in touring models auto-dimming mirror, which is available on all models as an accessory. Over head computer....lets see the Dodge overhead gives you outside temp (in-dash all EX and up Odys), mpg (included in touring MID). Some DC models overhead also offers door ajar (in dash, all Odys), service indicators (in-dash, all odys), low tire pressure (included in touring MID), and some user programmable features. The Honda MID (in dash) gives you the following: Compass heading, outside temp, avg fuel econ A, Trip odom A, avg fuel econ B, Trip odom B, overall odom, Instantaneous fuel economy, estimated range, real time tire pressures (for PAX), engine run time since last restart, Settings for wipers, door locks, inside lamp timers, ---% oil life, maintenance reminders. EX models all have outside temp, trips A, B, % oil life, maintenance reminders. So I guess it's not overhead on the Ody, but more features are available.

Tire pressure monitor, Dodge has it, one Honda owner said Honda doesn't.?

It comes with the PAX run-flat tires. Gotta have it or you may not know you're driving on a flat.

Air bags. Honda offers front and side as standard, Side bags on Dodge are extra. But Dodge has driver's knee protector air bag as standard, Honda doesn't offer it at all.

I don't think the safety is even in the same ballpark according to tests. Doesn't look like you can get side airbags on the DC if you want a sunroof. Std. sunroof and side bags on Ody EX and above. VSC on Honda, that's been discussed.

Am/Fm radio with both CD and cassette with steering wheel controls,can be had on mid priced Dodge. Not sure if Honda offers both on any model.

I don't know the exact break-down, but I have steering wheel controls for radio/nav on my EX-L R&N. I have six-disc changer in dash as well, which you can't get on DC vans if you get their Nav. On Ody models without the rear-entertainment, you can get either an MP3 CD player or Cassette installed in addition to the other stereo's. It goes in the slot where the rear DVD would be located on models with rear entertainment. You won't be able to get a cassette player in any vehicle in the next year because it's going to cost too much. Demand is near zero.

Some other non-subjective features I felt were key on the Ody over the DC offering:

Rear back-up camera
Larger rear ent. screen
Voice controls
Large touch-screen Navigation that is in a completely different league
Convenient dash controls for power sliding doors
Roll-down windows with remote
Tighter turning-circle

sebring95 · July 2005

If you drive with a lead foot like those of us who like sporty, energetic driving, the VCM would not kick in that frequently or any at all. You would only get 255HP when firing on all cylinders.

I've been surprised how much the VCM kicks in (going by the dash-light). I made a run yesterday, six passengers, and running 75mph on flat it was staying on quite a bit. Obviously turns off going up any incline, but is on going down any incline unless you peg the pedal.

The performance of our Ody has gotten better and better as it breaks-in. I was a little concerned at first as it seemed a tad lethargic for the HP rating, but now around 4k miles it feels about right.

nwng · July 2005

on my ex, it's a oil life monitor, which tells me how much longer before I need to have an oil change. I don't know how complicated or expensive this device is, but I think a lot of people can benefit from this as they will not (or being told) to change oil every 2500 miles, which is a waste of resource.

sebring95 · July 2005

on my ex, it's a oil life monitor, which tells me how much longer before I need to have an oil change.

It also keeps track of which maintenance schedule (a or b) to perform based on conditions/driving habits, as well as oil life.

isellhondas · July 2005

You are right. We really don't want the DCX trade ins. They don't sell, and the wholesalers don't want them either.

Pretty sad when it takes incentives like that in order to move product wouldn't you agree?

jipster · July 2005

" Pretty sad..............wouldn't you agree?"

No....I wouldn't. It may be a bit sad for the manufacturer

. But, for the consumer it is

Chrysler makes up for their smaller profit margins on sold vehicles with higher volume.

socalawd · July 2005

Thank you for being so concerned about us Dodge owners, it's nice to know you care so much!!!! What did you find on Oddys???

I try and be as helpful as possible. I looked at the 2005 odyssey and you seem to have that pretty much covered!! If a investigation happens on that bad connector for my LCD I'll let you know. I'm sure it will be the biggest problem since the Corvair(Odysseys LCD go's blank Unsafe at any speed) Now your lights turning off that's a electricial problem!!

socalawd · July 2005

Chrysler makes up for their smaller profit margins on sold vehicles with higher volume.

Dodge van sales down 23% for month of june compared to last year. Down 4% for YTD from last year!! Where's the volume on the caravan???

hansienna · July 2005

My friend wanted to trade his 2002 Honda Accord for a new 2005 Accord. Dealer did NOT want it and offered him $10,000 trade in. :sick:
He went to Toyota dealer close by and got $11,000 on a trade for a NEW 2005 Camry LE. That 2002 Accord is now listed for sale by the Toyota dealer for $15,015 but they did run a "special" on it for $13,995.

Why don't Honda dealers want a used Honda on a trade?? :lemon:
I think it is VERY SAD when Honda dealers do not want to take a used Honda in on a trade. :confuse:

I also recall that I suggested to a Honda Odyssey owner here in the Town Hall that he contact Isell to trade it in because his local dealer would not give him anywhere close to the phony trade-in value listed for a used Odyssey. The reply here in Town Hall was "Please don't get me involved"...or words to that effect.

jipster · July 2005

Which van sales in paticular are you referring to? Dodge Caravan? Dodge Grand Caravan? Chrysler T&C? Cummulative? Let's see some numbers.

I was referring in paticular to their sales strategy. What they want and what they get may not be the same.

Anytime(the majority of time) a total redesign is put on the market it will usually have a high increase in sales the first year...drop some and level off for the following years. i.e see the Toyota Sienna sales figures.I'm sure many people put off buying the 2004 GC to get the 2005 with stow-n-g.

dennisctc · July 2005

You are right. We really don't want the DCX trade ins. They don't sell, and the wholesalers don't want them either.

Pretty sad when it takes incentives like that in order to move product wouldn't you agree?

I'm sure Dodge dealers feel the same way. Must be sad day in Hondaville when you can't markup the Oddys a few thousand dollars, like in the old days......and be bothered by numerous problems and recalls.

sebring95 · July 2005

also recall that I suggested to a Honda Odyssey owner here in the Town Hall that he contact Isell to trade it in because his local dealer would not give him anywhere close to the phony trade-in value listed for a used Odyssey.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy, those folks that list book values. LIke those lease guys that put the residuals tremendously higher on the Ody and then actually put their own money on the line just to fool people

You can search ebay ended items to get a slight idea for what things sell for. It's hard to compare $ for $, but it looks like an '03 AWD Caravan ES with 25k miles sold for about $1800 less than a fairly well equipped '03 Ody EX-L with 68k miles. Almost 3X the miles and FW drive....

There's also a '03 Grand Caravan Sport with 54k miles that sold for $10,000 and the '03 Ody EX (cloth) with 52k miles sold for $16,900. The only "cheap" Ody that's sold on Ebay was a '03 EX-L with 70k miles for $14,350. It was from Brooklin and looked like a typical NYC vehicle. Not worth the $14k in my book....

If you can't get KBB trade-in value for a car, you've got a problem. Dealers can always offer anything though, so it's bargaining skills beyond that.

masterpaul1 · July 2005

You're like 3 generations behind now!!!! Get an iPod and get into the 21st century!!! I love mine, and play it thru my FM via iTrip

I think the iPod is nice and all, but not worth the money for the equipment and monthly bills. (I' ve heard it cost around $13.00 a month for an IPod which for a year is $156.00). I can save that money for our kids college fund or just place it in our savings acct. We do not do a lot of traveling and we don't live in our vechicles. We try to save money anyway that we can. So when needs arise for us or our children, we can take care of those needs. So for me, it's just not worth the money even though a lot of people are doing it. Food For Thought: Just because it's out there and you can afford it, doesn't mean that you have to buy it.

hansienna · July 2005

No conspiracy. Just the facts. Honda dealers will NOT pay trade-in value on any used Honda just like any other dealer won't pay the value of a DC minivan. :mad:

dennisctc · July 2005

You're like 3 generations behind now!!!! Get an iPod and get into the 21st century!!! I love mine, and play it thru my FM via iTrip

I think the iPod is nice and all, but not worth the money for the equipment and monthly bills. (I' ve heard it cost around $13.00 a month for an IPod which for a year is $156.00). I can save that money for our kids college fund or just place it in our savings acct. We do not do a lot of traveling and we don't live in our vechicles. We try to save money anyway that we can. So when needs arise for us or our children, we can take care of those needs. So for me, it's just not worth the money even though a lot of people are doing it. Food For Thought: Just because it's out there and you can afford it, doesn't mean that you have to buy it.

There is no monthly charge for an iPod, and you can buy one for $200 at Sam's. The only possible additional cost is if you go to the itunes website and purchase music ($1/song). This could actually same $$$$....how many times have you purchased an album and only liked one song on it? iTunes allows you to listen to the songs first and only buy the one song.

sebring95 · July 2005

Honda dealers will NOT pay trade-in value on any used Honda

Based on your anecdotal evidence maybe, but I don't call that fact. Book value is book value, and statistically you should be able to get that value. Considering residuals are based on wholesale values....

hayneldan · July 2005

YTD May figures 2005 Honda 71,878 2004 Honda 61,851 Honda up 10,027.
YTD May figures 2005 DC 182,161 2004 DC 156,931 DC up 25,230

Looks to me that DC is up 2 1/2 times what Honda is! year to date May.

socalawd · July 2005

No conspiracy. Just the facts. Honda dealers will NOT pay trade-in value on any used Honda just like any other dealer won't pay the value of a DC minivan

Oh yes they will if they rip you off on the sale!! Now weren't you shopping your 2002 T&C around to trade it in!!! What is bluebook and what were you offered??

socalawd · July 2005

YTD May figures 2005 Honda 71,878 2004 Honda 61,851 Honda up 10,027.
YTD May figures 2005 DC 182,161 2004 DC 156,931 DC up 25,230
Looks to me that DC is up 2 1/2 times what Honda is! year to date May.

I was just talking Dodge not Chrysler T&C(up over 60% since last year)looks like that brand is taking off way up from last year!!!! Wonder who's sales its affecting? Damn canibals!!!

hayneldan · July 2005

Last time I looked this is the Honda Odyssey vs DODGE/CHRYSLER minivans forum. Looks like your figures are selective to favor Odyssey, which is actually loosing ground to the DC minivans.

masterpaul1 · July 2005

My mistake. I was thinking about satelite radio and not the iPod. I still don't want it but, I think my Wife would be interested for the car she drives.

sebring95 · July 2005

Odyssey, which is actually loosing ground to the DC minivans

How do you figure? The ratio between the two is identical between 2004/2005.

Not sure what sales figures have anything to do a real comparison. Honda can only sell about 1/4 as many minivans, because that's all they choose to and/or can produce.

A better gauge of demand for a vehicle is the inventory levels. Right now the Caravan has a 47 day supply T&C 42 days (both of which are quite good actually), and the Odyssey a 26 day supply. Industry average at the end of June was 58 days. The Ford Freestar was at 77 days, Chevy Uplander 51 days, Mazda MPV 122 days, Nissan Quest 75 days. The all-time winner is the Mercury Monterey at 316 days.

socalawd · July 2005

A better gauge of demand for a vehicle is the inventory levels. Right now the Caravan has a 47 day supply T&C 42 days (both of which are quite good actually), and the Odyssey a 26 day supply. Industry average at the end of June was 58 days. The Ford Freestar was at 77 days, Chevy Uplander 51 days, Mazda MPV 122 days, Nissan Quest 75 days. The all-time winner is the Mercury Monterey at 316 days.

Where can I get this info. Knowing the inventory levels is a great tool in car buying. Thanks for the info!!

sebring95 · July 2005

Where can I get this info. Knowing the inventory levels is a great tool in car buying. Thanks for the info!!

Automotive news lists monthly sales, production, inventories, etc.

hansienna · July 2005

Apparently my complete posting was not read clearly. Here is the important part of posting # 3997 that answers the question:

....."Honda dealers will NOT pay trade-in value on any used Honda just like any other dealer won't pay the value of a DC minivan."

I have never claimed DC minivans retain as high percentage of MSRP as Honda or Toyota.

BUT, they do retain as high percentage of actual price paid since DC provides rebates and incentives.

socalawd · July 2005

NHTSA has crash and rollover rating posted on their website, Honda scored very poorly, Town & Country has a 5 Star rating.

What are you talking about they are the same 5 stars all around 4 for rollover. But the offset for the dodge is worse. Honda is a best Pick

Overall Value and resale values for the past 20 years can be found in the link below. Total 5 year and 10 year cost of ownership are low for Sienna and Chrysler Town and Country. Honda has the highest.

Read your chart again and please don't compare to pre 1999 odyssey we all know this was a small 4 banger with doors that open like a wagon. You have what looks like close to MSRP for the Ex and what looks like employee discount - incentives for the Dodge still the first year loss is over 20% on the dodge damn didn't know it was that high!

JDPowers is a excellent company that is beyond reproach they hit it all on the nose just like consumer reports. :P

dustyk · July 2005

"A better gauge of demand for a vehicle is the inventory levels. Right now the Caravan has a 47 day supply T&C 42 days (both of which are quite good actually), and the Odyssey a 26 day supply..."

Not really. The ultimate gauge of success of any vehicle is the percentage of its category market share. Inventory level...or days supply...is not reliable. Factory outputs vary for all sorts of reasons, including intentional reductions to offset slow sales of a sister model, and next months supply of Ody could be double the 26 figure. The only thing that low supply day figure proves is that demand exceeds availability. This is how Honda dealers enjoy keeping prices high.

Dusty

hayneldan · July 2005

Better read post 4007 again. Monthly lease rates for 2005 Odyssey is the highest ($299.00) vs ($179.00) Chrysler TC for comparably equipped minivans. And the J.D. Power ratings for 2005 are as follows: mechanical quality, Odyssey 4 Chrysler TC 3, Dodge Caravan 4. Feature and accessory quality, Odyssey 3, Chrysler TC 5, Dodge Caravan 5. Body and interior quality, Odyssey 2, Chrysler TC 4, Dodge Caravan 3. Overall quality, Odyssey 2, Chrysler TC 4, Dodge Caravan 4. "JDPowers is a excellent company that is beyond reproach they hit it all on the nose ........."

socalawd · July 2005

Better read post 4007 again. Monthly lease rates for 2005 Odyssey is the highest ($299.00) vs ($179.00) Chrysler TC for comparably equipped minivans.

Like I'm gonna lease a minivan. It works well for company cars and rental cars so they will be moving alot of inventory. I paid cash and will keep the car 10 years so nix the finance charge. I figure cost of ownership over that time isn't much of a concern. The depreciation on the dodge over 5 years from new at the ED - incentive price is still much larger than Honda. The only way it makes a big differrence is to buy a 2 year old DCX van and then keep it 5 years now that looks good because of DCX initial depreciation. I can't buy a car that often and lose that kind of money!!

hayneldan · July 2005

Sorry not following your logic, from the chart www.verity-sol.com//Auto/resalevalue.html. 10 YEARS The difference in inital purchase price 2005 Odyssey compared to 2005. T&C $27,705 Ody vs $23,510 T&C is $4,195.00 in favor of the T&C. After 10 years (private party sale) a 1995 Ody is worth $5,830 and the T&C is worth $3,660 a difference of only $2,170 in favor of Ody. $4,195-$2,170 =$2,025 in favor of T&C. You would be $2,025 ahead if you bought T&C. 5 YEARS the difference in purchase price is the same $4195 in favor of the T&C after 5 years (private party sale) the Ody is worth $13,665 aand the T&C $9,940 a difference of $3,715 in favor of Ody. $4,195 original price difference -$3,715 sale price after 5years = $480 in favor of the T&C. You would be $480 ahead if you bought T&C. Myth Busted!

jipster · July 2005

Thanks for busting that myth hayneldan. I could never understand why I hear that the Honda Ody is the best value in minivans...and that you get the most for your money. When it is one of the most expensive vans to own feature for feature.

hayneldan · July 2005

It was probably pulled because it used data from 3 auto forums including Edmunds, manafacturers websites, and actual dealer quotes. Mentioning other car sites on Edmunds is in violation of the terms of service, (TOS). I usually copy and paste articles like that on to email the make a hard copy.

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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