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In 1985 I bought a Volvo, our daughter was 7 at the time, got to the dealer before 10am been to 5 other bay area Volvo dealers, this one had the car we wanted, didn't drive it out until after 9pm that night. Kid was an absolute angel the whole day. Swore I'd never do it again to myself or the family, and I haven't. When I got the blue 2002 exactly the way I wanted it from a total of 4 emails that was worth the extras I paid for the trip. Fact is, it is a mini vacation so except for the airfares I don't consider the rest of the cost since if I had the car at home we would probably do something similar anyway. Yosemite is local but is much more expensive than Yellowstone which we've not seen enough of yet, btw.
Now for the current deal, I'm again getting exactly what the wife wants in color, options, etc. and not taking what is left on the lot at the local dealers. They will deal if something sits for awhile but if you want one of their precious allocations, to order what you want, then they expect to be paid top dollar. They don't realize they are competing with a much broader market as this is the 4th car I've bought off the internet since 2000. Now, I don't blame the local Vette dealers, they move all they get and don't need me for a fact, but if they did get my business then they might get another allocation in the future and find a local and increase the profit total, their choice.
I was putting too many miles on my '02 C5, given the extended warranty 6/60 that I got with the car. So, I picked up a very low miles '95 that is a very nice car, but it isn't even close to the comfort, ease of entry/exit, ride dynamics or in any way to be honest a real competitor to the C5. Just one opinion but there are lots of garage queens getting ready to move so the faithful can move up to the C6. If I was looking now for used with what I've picked up over almost 3 years I'd stay away from high miles on any car with lots of electronics. Also I think private party asking has not come down as fast as the dealers pricing on new ones as the unload the last of the C5's.
You know you want 6sp, that is only about 22% of '98 production but up to 41% of 99 production. Why the shift, the hard top came out in '99 and performance people want that for a track car so it got lots more 6speeds. Number of Coupes and Convertibles with 6speeds didn't change much. Try:
http://www.idavette.net/facts/p98t.htm
Also shows how many in each color as well.
I also think that heads up display and active handling are worth the price as well, that will only be on fully optioned car, not a base model. YMMV What you need is a motivated seller and there are many out there who have ordered the C6 but won't worry about selling the C5 until delivery starting later in July. Also sellers get more motivated was the weather gets colder, right now they can drive it a few more months and enjoy the weather, not true come October and earlier some places.
Also try: http://www.vetteweb.com/features/0404vet_price/
and compare to Edmunds, this is last years prices for dealer vehicles which in my opinion makes it a little high since it's on the coasts and in hotter markets for the Corvette.
After hearing about deals that are being offered at the end of the C5 production run, I am starting to feel really good about my purchase back in April, 2003. I placed the order with a local (Calif. Bay Area) dealer that is part of a family of dealers. As a result of business that I had done with other members of the dealership group, I apparently had significant clout. I placed the order in early December, 2002. At the time, I thought that I was getting a pretty good deal at $9,000 off MSRP for a car that was being ordered exactly to my specifications. As a result of delays caused by my desire for a 3.15 rear end, there were 2 or 3 price increases before the car was built. In each instance, I was provided price protection based on my December order date. When the car finally arrived at the dealer, GM added an extra $1,000 in cash rebate (rebate was increased to $3,000 from $2,000). To net it out, what I thought was a good deal turned into a great deal. It would seem that it was a great deal even by today's standards.
Also I have never driven a Z06. There's not any to drive. I did take a standard Vett out that had the handling package & 6 speed. How different does the Z06 drive compared to the standard one?
My impressions were:
Little road & wind noise
Lound engine when at WOT
Shifts were REALLY long compared to the 6 speed Acura I have now
It was fast, But not that fast. Only a step up from my current car.
Handling seemd to be ok. I didn't noticed a big difference from my current car. I was able to slide the back end out easily even with the active handling on. I imagin the Z06 would be even easier?
No, except for a few adjustments I paid less than that in 2001 for the first model year Z06.
Yes, your previous posts made that clear.
-Louder exhaust noise across the spectrum.
-Don't know about your perception of fast. Unless your Honda is running nitrous, the Z06 will leave the Honda in the dust (on any measure - 1/4 mile, 0 - 60, 0 - 100, whatever).
One item to consider is that the Magnetic Selective Ride Control (F55 suspension option) is not available on the Z06. The F55 suspension is incredible technology - you can switch from comfy to firm while you are driving the car. With the comfy setting (Tour), the ride rivals that of a Lexus. Want to firm the ride up for some twisties? Sport is just what the doctor ordered. All available with just a flick of the switch.
Looks like he is giving sticker minus rebate plus maybe a grand.
'04's may be a bit higher but my '03 stickered for like 53,300 and it had all the options and was MY in color.
There are dealers going 9-10k off from what I get from another board.
C6's are about to hit the ground and even if the Z06 is at a premium vs. the standard C5, there are deep discounts available.
Doubt I can post another site here so private me at gbjerke@aol.com and I'll be glad to direct you.
As to performance, the Z06 is significantly quicker than the regular C5. 350 vs. 405 in horses and 150-200# lighter.
Good story. I bought an '01 Z06 and my brother bought an '01 convert w/ automatic. Know that both of us are older than dirt. He was happy with the auto and 350 ponies. "More power than I ever need" were his words.
Last summer I traded my '01 for an '03, the new one from a dealer near his home After picking it up I spent the night at his place. Next day he and I drove my new Z to visit my parents about 70 miles away. When heading back to his place I tossed him the keys and told him to drive. We hit some back roads; came to a stop sign; he started out mildly, I told him to stand on it. BINGO, he hit the rev limiter in first, hit second and banged the limiter again and then said, "H$&^ S&*@, what the hell was that?" He was awestruck at the power. We drove around a bit more but he said little.
I left the next day and much to my surprise, a couple weeks later he emailed me saying he had traded his convert for a new Z06. No comparison in his mind.
Mind you, we are not boy racers...old guys that really enjoy the rush of some old fashioned push rod V8 grunt.
Quiet=nope
Cushy ride=nope
Stereo=marginal at best (although CD's sound fine)
Fun Factor=INCREDIBLE!!!
The only real difference is in the roof line and storage.
Shifty the Host
Just back from the track at Buttonwillow, CA and with my mostly stock coupe I think I even got the better of a guy in a new Z06, seat time does add up even for us gray beards . I have no doubt that the guy will be passing me easily when he sorts out being in a torque monster compared to his prior rides. Running on the track is something everyone in a performance car should try sometime, good instruction and a safe day at the track makes for a huge smile. Passing a Porsche or two is worth a grin as well .
You also hit it on the head about driving schools. What a rush...and where else can you take your car to the limits legally. Everybody should do it.
Seat time also does do wonders. Last fall at Road America I had stopped in a line in the pitting area. 2 lanes and they let one car go at a time, 5-6 seconds later they let the next car go. I sat in the right lane and had the camcorder going (it's great to see/listen to now). I hear this "rumpa, rumpa, rumpa" coming up on my left. He pulls along side and it's a Viper with a HUGE wing and he had a cam that made thing impossible to idle at less than 11-1200+
RPM's. WICKED is all I could think. He got held up a bit at the start so I went first thinking he would be up my tailpipe before turn 3. I keep checking my mirrors thru that first lap (4 miles) and do not see him.
We finish our 30 minute session, my son is timing our session and I finished over 2 minutes ahead of him.
That car should have eaten me up and no doubt it is a lot quicker. Fortunately I had about 30 days of driving schools there and I suspect this was his first time out. There is just SO much to learn at these schools and seat time does wonders...even for grey hairs!
After spending some of the last year on the track in both my own car and some class cars I now don't have to over think when it might help to do a quick shift or which gear would be better, mostly instinct to get it at least close to optimum. Even helps on the road where I can anticipate what's in front and not touch the brakes while slowing to pull into the fast lane to pass something going slower to the right. I don't normally travel in the fast lane, something I learned in Canada and the EU that I wish those here could learn.
BTW, don't you find 30 minute sessions to be very long? We did 23 minutes last Friday and it was very nice, just over 10 laps on a 3 mile course. When we did 25 minutes in the Mazda forumla cars have to admit to getting tired as the session wound down. I've been on two 3 mile courses and that's lots of turns to remember, don't think I'm up to 4 miles courses yet. Enjoy!
Road America is 4 miles and 14 turns but 3 of the turns are really non-turns. 3 long straights and I have been there so often, I don't even mind an hour long session.
e.g., late April went to a Windy City BMW school. Friday is instructor day. They drop the green at 8 a.m. and the checkered does not come out til noon in order for the corner workers to get some lunch. Green comes out again at 1 p.m. and checkered out at 5 p.m.
Obviously nobody goes the entire time but I did a couple 45-60 minute sessions. Reason I got to run is that I am in "instructor training"; so is my youngest son; eldest son already an instructor.
INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!! But boy, was I pooped at the end of the day.
Unfamiliar tracks make me mentally gassed in short order...so do shorter tracks.
Familiarity is key in my mind.
But if you are going to drive these big HP cars on the street, you had best get some seat time at the track; otherwise you'll join all the other Vipers in Hemmings Motor News with the word "damaged" in the advert!
The formula cars do get violent when you find a limit you didn't expect. I had two incidents in the formula Mazda cars after going through the lower powered cars with just a few power slides that were really getting to be fun. Steering in the Mazda is much more precise and hence less forgiving, especially at speed, no place to relax or lose concentration until the motor is turned off. As I think I noted before they are also 10 to 15 mph average faster than the stock Vette, that jump from 74mph to 84 to 90 mph is a big step for someone just learning the process in a matter of days and got my attention about shortcomings in driving style real quick. And yes, got rattled in that coffin more than a few times, it takes a toll on the body.
RE: C5 vs. Viper. I think Vipers are a lot less refined and this will become immediately noticeable in a side by side drive.
I went to Blackhawk Farms (about 20 minutes from me) last July. Short track but I had not been there for 4-5 years. I was a total disaster the first session out...screwed every corner up royally. I was ticked at myself. Second session was a vast improvement and I actually enjoyed the rest of the day.
Unfortunately, I had a comcorder mounted in the first session. On first lap I came around the last corner headed to the front straight. Back end slipped out a bit and video contains my comments about "tires still cold..." Then I go blasting towards turn #1---come in WAY to hot and do a 180 at turn #1. How stupid!!!
Anyway my son grabbed the tape and dubbed it onto a fresh VHS tape. He showed it to all when a dozen or so of us met at Road America last October. Sure as hell, all he dubbed was my 180 screw up...dubbed it 9-10 times back to back so all that is shown is my comment about tires being cold and then my 180. Hey, even I thought it was humorous, although embarrassing.
Ya know, after all this, it is gratifying to know grey hairs can still have fun!!!
Virgin poster here. I bough my first Vette on December 31st, an incredible blue LeMans Commemorative Edition 2004. Can I say that I am in love? (yes, with the car)
I haven't seen much posting about this particular car, but I am curious what the aficionados on Corvettes think about this model. I come from a Corvette family and my parents have a few models that are their favorites. It took me til age 35 to afford one myself, and I have to say, out of all the cars I've driven (including BMW's and my hubby's Jag XK8), this is my favorite.
What is the consensus on this car? Should I be garaging it instead of driving it and having fun (heaven forbid!). Is this a gimmick by Chevrolet, or a potential collectible?
Let me add, you like the Vette, enjoy driving it and wonder if you should make it a garage queen???
NOT A CHANCE!!!!!!! You bought it for fun...use it!
BTW, welcome to the forum.
The only issue I have had with it was the leaking differential, that for a series of boring reasons needed 3 times and 5/6 trips to fix.
I do 15k oil and filter changes and the way it is running, I anticipate 200-300k from it. :)It also still gets 26/27 mpg at xxx cruising speed in the desert at 104 degrees with the AC going! I know if I go 65 mph under the same conditions we are talking 30/32 mpg! I love this car!
2. All year driving car.
3. Relatively reliable for high-performance car. 4. Hi-maintenance.
P.S. Live on the east coast..Weather can be brutal.
I Love Vettes!!!
2. Yes. In any weather I drive the car, although I've read about those who never let the car see damp roads. I use a Vette as a daily driver and probably will for years to come, but 30" of rain a year is not going to be much of an issue.
3. Now you're talking, great reliability with one qwirk in batteries going bad if it sits for weeks at a time which some do.
4. Only one experience but comfirmed by many others, all I've done is oil changes for 27k miles.
The undercarriage clearance is just 3.5 inches and for me that is only a driveway issue, no snow here. Stability control, ABS and traction control would keep you very straight on icy or packed snow, lots of contact patch if you have the right tires for the systems to work with. You'll have to judge beyond the above. BTW, I've read about many who use them for daily driving in the cold north but also many more who put them in the garage all winter. YMMV
Everyday driver----absolutely...except for your second question. Not an all weather car. It sucks in snow.
As to your reliability question, my '01 was flawless as is my '03. Can't comment long term as my '01 had about 30k miles when I traded for the '03 which now has about 8k on the clock.
Build quality/fit/finish is lacking compared to some Japanese/German models but that old fashioned push rod V8 puts more smiles on my face than anything else.
The problem: I have the money to almost pay cash for the 2004 Z16, but would struggle to get a C6.
I must get my wife a(very) late model car by the end of the year,so I'm really buying two cars/suv's. I bought an LT-4 in "96 and somewhat regretted it.But again, the C5 is so nice and the Z06 is unbelievable--also I have not driven a Z16 with the new improvements. I appreciate the advice I need to decide by week's end.Thank you, ultraman19
Will I had an added value in a Z16 over the other special badged 2004?
You have probably noticed that every year, year in and year out,Dave Hill, etc. talks about the vast new improvement for the upcoming year. AND as likely as not, the improvement are barely noticed by the public. In fact, in real world use many folks wouldn't know anything was improved if they were not told.
Could the Z16, because of it's power and race breeding become a "collectable"? You really have to drive a Z06 to understand the real world hp-torque, awesome exhaust sound and of course
extreme cockpit noise. It is a rush!!
As to Z16 being collectible, read back about a page of posts, most here doubt it.
I think white looks awesome in the Z06 and could never quite understand why Chevy only put it out in '01.
It certainly is rare and I suspect has a greater value than a regular Z06. Not to someone "looking for an '01 Z", but rather someone who recognizes that color combo would be virtually impossible to find.
Enjoy the car...and hang on to it!
A very good deal? The salesperson said I will kick myself in a month when the new ones are available. But they will cost $10-12K more.Will the C6 be that much better of a car? If I wait will I see deeper discounts?
Reality: At my age, I will probably only own one more new Vette--
I appreciate all views, opinions,guidance and
mentoring!
Thanks, Ultraman 19
You can play hardball here.
Will the C6 be that much better than the C5?? Too early to tell but the C6 will not out perform the Z06---close, but no cigar.
C6's will likely command sticker or sticker+ out the chute. C5's sure did when they hit in '97.
A year from now, the '05 C6's will have some deep discounts.
It all goes back to "instant gratification" and what you are willing to pay for it.
I shop hard for cars and am waiting for the C6 Z06 to hit the ground...I'll have one, just depends on when. Sticker+ next summer or wait 6 months and get the discounts.
I try to "screw every screw" when buying but must admit, the older I get (63) the more I lean to some of that "instant gratification".
Don't think I helped much here....go with your gut reaction...you will enjoy it no matter what!
Don't even think of looking back.
Keep us posted on your decision.
I appreciate all advice etc.,The car will not be on the ground until this weekend and I choose at that time. Please keep the comments coming.