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Anyway, I love my '04 6MT TL w/Nav, and don't understand other posters' comments re turns. The TL handles great - nice and tight, yet very comfortable. The only negative is torque steer. In fact, while I'm sure BMW are faster, my TL gives me more power than I can use. Great acceleration, great handling, great features, etc. Only problem is the torque steer.
Byron
I am going to drive the TL again on Tuesday but the first time I thought it drove very nice. The acceleration was, as you said, all I would ever need and the creature comforts and toys on the inside are absolutely second to none. Torque steer aint gonna bother my none on the merrit pkwy in CT and it just those times when you really feel like having fun that you will see the difference.
I can not get over how BMW improved so much on what was already the best driving experience in the class. I am also looking hard into an x3. I just wish I liked the look more.
djocks
Anyway, I will keep you posted
That's been my experience.
Regarding the looks of the BMW, I decided awhile ago the exterior looks of a vehicle is tertiary (even less important than secondary!!!!). Yes, it can provide an "Ooohh" factor with the valet, but if the interior is nice and the drive is good, that's all I care about.
If performance is what is most important to you, the BMW or G35 is the way to go. They both excel (excuse the pun) in the performance department. But, IMHO, they are a little shy in the size, comfort, and luxury area.
If you are looking for a mix of good (albeit not top notch) performance with luxury, the TL is hard to beat, especially at several thousand less than the comparably equipped BMW and G35.
I test-drove all 3 (‘05 BMW, not ’06). I bought and am very happy with my TL.
They are all very good cars. The one you buy, is of course, the best. I bought my '05 TL over the G35x for the smoother, quieter ride and (IMHO) superior exterior/interior style and interior materials.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
So if you want to drive around slaloms in your daily commute and if you want the toys and don't mind torque steer get the TL. If you want a drivers car get the 3 or G35.
0 - 30
0 - 60
quarter mile
Acura TL 270hp 52.5mph
This makes the TL very competitive with BMW re cornering. However CR did say the TL is not "as nimble as the BMW or the Mercedes C class", but it's not bad.
And I will add "for your particular needs."
It's silly to argue one choice over another based on a magazine review. The magazine reviewers have different sets of criteria. CR is biased towards overall functionality. They view the car as a transportation appliance. The enthusiast magazines are looking primarily at overall performance. Since most of us don't have California's exciting canyon roads to traverse, that last little bit of handling prowess that the BMW may provide over the FWD TL isn't a meaningful differentiator.
I find the R&T and C&D reviews a little more helpful since they come up with a numeric score. That allows the reader to weigh his/her criteria differently and possibly arrive at a different conclusion.
As has been pointed out many times, these (G, TL, 3) are all very good cars and most of us would be happy with any one of them. Ultimately, it's probably going to be something subjective (e.g., interior quality, exterior appearance) that sways us to one over another.
Horse hockey! I couldn't give one rip what was published in CR, I drove a 3-Pedal TL, and my friends, that thing has TORQUE STEER. Period, full stop, the end.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I hope Riez can bring his LSD posts, those are good too...
I bought a TL for my wife so it had to be an automatic so I have not driven a TL MT. I will check it out for myself this weekend. I am now in the market for a car for myself, so this forum is really helping out, thanks all.
However, when professional drivers, who work for a non-profit organization, who spend hours testing a car, tells me there is no torque steer, I believe them. But, Shipo, if you and your friends found it did have torque steer, I will be on alert, thanks. I just something else :shades:
If I recall various reviews correctly, the manual has lots of torque steer but the automatic very little. I think it was C&D who said they preferred the auto TL due to the torque steer of the manual.
Drive 'em all and make yer call...
Byron
I bought the TL because my kids were getting too big for the A4's back seat. I also drove the G35.
The G35 interior was just too cheesy for me. The steering and power were great, but I found the G35 skittish on high speed corners where bumps existed.
The TL is second to none in features and has a very nice interior. It's power is great. I must say now that after 8000 miles on it, I still don't think its handling compares to my A4. It is pretty good compared to most cars, but I was spoiled by the A4. The TL is a little 'floaty' going around curves when bumps are present. I drive to work up a canyon road for a 2 mile stretch and it is a great spot where the handling differences come out.
I still really enjoy the TL and will keep it for many years, but when the kids are gone to college I'm going to get a bit better handling car.
Needless to say, cars like ES300 or SUVs, minivans are OUT for me from a handling perspective. I guess I'm now picky enough that I need near the cream of the crop!
But why, why, why can't Audi put a decent sport seat in the Audi? The TL & BMW seats are much sportier.
Frisocnick, just because someone states a "fact" on the internet does not, in fact, make it a fact. And that's the fact, Jack!. Don't believe everything you read. Some wonderful posts all over the boards here, but you must do your own DD, drive all the cars that are on your list before you decide! You've got a TL, enjoy it for the fabulous car it is.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
We have exchanged posts before, and I really respect your common sense opions. However, I am a scientist and I know how CR tests cars and they follow the scientific method. Of course, it is often subjective judgements, but CR is the most objective of all because they are non-profit. C&D advertises which comprimises their credibility. It's not just an internet opinion, it's CR!
I don't think that's necessarily the case. All the major car manufacturers advertise. When the car mags do a comparison test, something has to finish last, regardless of advertising dollars spent. I think if you looked back over the years, you'd find that the finish order changes and usually it's the newest model that finishes first, e.g., the new Infiniti M series is winning most of the comparisons lately.
Now if one manufacturer consistently won every comparison across all model lines, then I might believe the editorial opinions were influenced by advertising dollars.
Another thing that favors CR objectivity is that they buy the cars they test. I'm sure the manufacturer supplied cars that the car mags test are gone over with a fine tooth comb before being given to the magazines to evaluate. As long as they all do it, I guess the playing field is level.
"lots of posts" ??? What is alot? A little balance/perspective - I own a '03 TL/auto. I have never had a problem of any type with any part of the car (although Acura checked out my tranny at my last oil change per a TSB).
The last time I checked, approx. 1.6 % of the TL population had transmission problems - and Acura did not shy away from their responsibility to repair/replace.
The TL is a great car (still amazed at the thoughfulness that Acura put into the little design details/ergonomics*, engine is flawless, etc.). All car manufacturers will occasionally have technical glitches (I believe the tranny thing was due to a supplier issue) but as long as they step up to the plate and meet their responsibilities - they will have my support and future loyality (i.e. cash).
P.S. *a small compliant I can muster is that the sunglass holder (between the visors) seems to be missing in the 04/05 models - if I am remembering correctly from test drive about a year ago.
Cheers
All MT
TSX:
Drive: Light, flickable, rev happy- happiness is high RPM's, tight tranny/clutch
Interior: Nice, well appointed- typical Acura
Exterior: Conservative- Classic, average rims
TL:
Drive: Nice drive, quite engine, lots of power, tranny smooth, I am sure the torque steer is there, but I live in a world of 8/10ths
Interior: Options galore, I felt a little on the claustrophobic side, it's 5 cf bigger than 330...?!?!, Liked the blue Instrument cluster , but it added this weird fuzzy look to the instruments, Windows seemed narrow, high sills, no 40/60 fold down, Limited interior/exterior color choices.
Exterior: Profile is great, Front/rear seem a bit slab sided, while this doesn't distract, I wonder if at year 5, I'll like it just as much, average rims.
G35:
Drive: Power- can you say, "Slap me, Slap me again and call me Sally!"? Trans notchy, engine rough- not horrible mind you, but for an every day driver that I have to crank out a nice size check every month..., I like my engine noise, but not this much, gearing seemed short w/ a 6 speed and a 300 hp engine, Seemed to track very nice- had a point and shoot feel to it. Ride rougher than the 330 w/ sport pkg.
Interior: Much improved over last year- actually put real aluminum in there- what a concept. Seat controls- different...- wife loved them, nice shifter, open, good visibility, Instruments- blah- ugliest of the bunch, lots of options reasonably priced, cool back seat that reclines, no 40/60 fold down, Limited interior/exterior color choices. Can't put my finger on it, but interior seems 'off.' Wood package lame.
Exterior: Sexy beast, Cool 18 inch rims standard, back end good, but not great.
330:
Drive: Get out a fork and eat off of the flat torque curve- makes the engine have a more predictable feel, nice tranny- liked the stick shift- reminds me of the sticks they used to put in the Mustangs (1989), engine noise noticeable upon accel, but not at steady speed, new brake hold feature pretty slick (car holds brake on a hill until gas applied). Handling, well... it is a BMW. Steering wheel fatter, liked it when gripping in turns. Don't really know about rear wheel drive- I'm sure I'll like it- live in Denver too.
Interior: Clean, gauges easy to read, if you move the seat up a little, you can see a bit of the hood- I hate not seeing the hood, I feel like the front end doesn't exist, Sports seats are awesome, maybe I am just a Honda boy- but they need a clock up high for easy peaks, good visibility, vinyl as standard- cheap, start button worthless w/out comfort access. General comment: xenon lights and brake system outshine the other vehicles. ipod compatible-nice, line in for audio, a/c in console to keep favorite beverage cool for later, interior felt open but intimate, fit and finish- a cut above- I am a big fan of wood- warms the interior up, liked beverage holder placement- don't have to do the funky chicken to pull my drink from down low. Wide interior/exterior color choices. Why won't Acura do a blue/tan combo?
Exterior- classic, nice flowing lines, back end finally flows, muscular- but not over done, standard 16 inch wheels- lame- their option line up doesn't allow for 17's though. What happend to the sweet 17 inch rims they offered with the sport pkg from the e-46?
Kasperghost
Oh please! Do you really think these magazines would compromise their journalistic integrity by letting the road test editors get free cars? I think these stories get started when someone doesn't agree with their reviews and/or comparison test choices.
Let's face it, aside from the objective measurements, every review is an opinion. These guys have their own set of biases based on their experience just like we all do. The only difference is that they drive cars for a living so their opinions are formed with more driving experience than most of us have. They have days (or weeks) and many hundreds miles on which to base their opinions rather than the hour or less and probably less than 50 miles for our test drives.
I haven't posted on this forum before, so I'm just sort of starting a new conversation. I think that you'd be happier in an A4, if you have one right now, than a new 3. I've seen two in person, driving, and they're not very impressive to look at. The 3 doesn't have as much presence as the old one, while the A4, from the back, looks like a little A8. After my '00 A6 2.7t's lease was up in April, I was taking delivery on a new convertible. I was pretty much completely sure of the S4 Cabriolet [which I have now, and am obsessed with], but I also checked out the M3 Convertible. It wasn't nearly as refined as the S4, and I am completely in love with my Sprint Blue S4 Cabriolet. I get so many admiring looks from people, the neighbors love it, and especially my family. Me, my wife, my son, and my daughter, [and also my son who can't drive yet, he's 12] fight over who gets the car next!
Yes!!!
Kasper: The Acura TL does come in Abyss Blue with the option of either Camel (tan-ish, but much brighter. Too much of a contrast for my taste) or Gray (which I chose).
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Funny, I've heard a lot of complaints that the ride was too harsh - I guess to each their own. FYI - don't know which model you drove, but the manual has a tighter suspension than the automatic, unless the automatic is an A-spec version. A 6MT w/ the sport tires rides even tighter.
I don't think the TL is intended to be a true sports sedan, like BMW or Infiniti G35. I think it intends to be a very sporty car that's 1 notch above entry-level luxury, and I think it does that very well.