In my search for a new car, I am truely amazed how many great cars are out there. Cars I have done research include Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus, Saab, Subaru, Ford Mustang, Avalon, and Corvette sort of. Really and amazing assortment of great cars! :shades:
I strongly agree with you, especially when you think of how much the Japanese Luxury brands have improved/increased their badge appeal from 10 yrs. ago. I have to say you were right from your other post, the Germans must be losing a little bit of sleep.
What else is part of this "Comfort Access" package that'll be available later?
I believe that's it. someone else may know for sure. for me it's worth $500 to never have to turn a key or even reach for my key when approaching the car.
Overall I agree with you, that the German cars are not as reliable as the Japanese cars (in general), but they do have high quality, and powerful cars. However, the Japanese cars offer more value. I am sure the Germans are losing sleep in the last few years.
Germans really drive their small-engined cars on the road at high speeds until it is time to stop for gas. Their cars need to be geared for decent mileage while cruising at triple digit speeds. Even a pedestrian Volkswagon Passat will run all day at 120. Japan is a parking lot. Traffic moves at a Manhattan pace over most of their islands. People take the train, which is the fast and efficient to get anywhere. The Japanese do place an extreme priority on image - so their cars look futuristic, have great numbers, and state of the art electronic bells and whistles. But for high speed driving feel, the Germans have them beat. Anyone want to jump on this grenade?
The Japanese know the American market very well, that's why they build different cars for different countries. For example, the Accord in Japan is smaller than the American model. That's why Japanese hybrids are doing so great. American auto makers fought higher fuel efficiency by lobbying congress and the prez. Japan gave us state of the art hybrids that a selling like crazy. German auto makers, if not losing sleep, should be. :P
Im sure 3 series sales figures will be red hot as well, the 06 3 series is an impressive machine, though German automakers' reliability are arguably lagging behind the Japanese , they still have "badge appeal" over infiniti and acura.... my mom couldnt tell the difference between a TL or G35 but she could probably point out a benz or beemer.
I would like to see sales numbers. I am sure many G35 buyers tested BMWs and many TL owners tested BMWs, I did. Not long ago, the BMW 3 series owned this market, not now. In terms of market share, I doubt BMW is as dominant as it once was. However, what I have read, is that this class of cars is red hot in sales.
BMW car sales in the US were down 9% thru April (60K in 2004 vs 55K in 2005). That's all models. Sales were up worldwide and April sales of the 3 series (worldwide) were up 17%. BMW is still strong in Europe where I think only Lexus (of the Japanese luxury brands) is available (please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Acura TL & TSX sales were up slightly (34K to 36K) with the TL flat and TSX up a lot.
G35 sales were flat.
Lexus overall car sales were down 2% in 2005 vs 2004 with ES down over 15% and IS down 47%. Otoh, the new GS300 was up over 300%.
BMW's feeling the heat. (shown in design) First, I remember hearing volvo as "box" on wheels. But if you noticed and look at pre 1999 BMW's, I think "box" on wheels was a tough race to call between volvo's and BMW 3's. Then redesign of 3 series > 1998. Then 7 series(2002), but I think this and Aztec competed for uglist car on the road. It looks like a 3 is trying to hatch out of the 7 series trunk "alien" style. Then I-drive. I am thinking these design changes are an attempt at product differentiation in a more competitive market.
In May, BMW sold 8185 3 series sedans. The TL was second at 7032.
That's my point, without TL competition, how many TL owners would have bought BMWs 10 years ago? I think many. Market share is the point, and BMW no longer dominates like it used to. The BMW label means a lot to many, but Acura and Infiniti are cutting into BMW's sales.
So why is a 184 hp BMW valued at $30K compared to a 298HP G35? Why would someone pay $30k for 184hp, when they can get 298hp for equal price. Why should anyone pay more inefficient german manufacturing process and costlier labor? Paying more doesn't always mean you are getting a better product.
Well the sales numbers indicate the contrary. People believe they are getting something that's more than horsepower. To a lot of people the horsepower and the commesurate gas usage are not a big draw, or else the 298 hp model would rule the roost.
I'd be willing to bet that 75% of the BMW drivers couldn't tell the difference between the driving dynamics of their 3 series and the FWD Acura TL. They bought the Bimmer because 1) it's cool, 2), their neighbor/friend/relative has one, 3) it has more cachet than the Japanese competition, 4) it's a sign that they've "made it."
There's no economic rationale to buy a BMW over a TL or a G35. Let's face it, most of us spend most of our driving time just getting from point A to point B. All three of these will do that in comfort, luxury, and at speeds well above the legal limits.
To continue your argument there is no rational reason to buy a TL over a fully equipped Accord or even a Hyundai.
You've decided the line in the sand is the TL or G35. If you drove let's say an E46 and TL back to back you would find an amazing difference, if you are an enthusiast who can drive a car.
There are people who can't tell the difference between a GT3 and a 20 year old Yugo. These people are not the people that I would include in this conversation.
If's funny you think a person buys a BMW for status and performance.
Why do people buy a TL or R? Made by Acura the upscale division of Honda. Maybe for status and performance?
If there is no economic reason to buy a BMW over a TL or G35, there is just no justification for buying any of these cars. For they are all overpriced compared to other reliable vehicles to get you from point A to B.
3 Series must have led in may due to the re-design, TL being second since its latest incarnation was in 03 and lastly the G35 with its current version released in 02. I think its safe to say the IS250/350 will be right up there as well when it comes out this fall. There's a certain appeal to being the first one to own or one of the first to drive any auto manufacturer's redesign.
I agree. I wouldnt consider myself an expert of any sort, but even i noted a definite difference between driving the 06 3 series and a G35....never drove a TL , but i did drive my aunt's 04 Accord sedan which is the same as a TL (just kidding frisconick).
"If there is no economic reason to buy a BMW over a TL or G35, there is just no justification for buying any of these cars."
You are absolutely right. But people don't always make rational economic decisions, thus we are blessed with abundant choices of transportation.
Re-read my post. I didn't say there wasn't a difference between the cars, I opined that most drivers and even most drivers of these particular cars, couldn't tell the difference. Clearly, this forum is populated by driving enthusiasts, most of whom can.
And thus, we debate the merits of these cars endlessly with no one changing anyone else's opinion
"I opined that most drivers and even most drivers of these particular cars, couldn't tell the difference."
I disagree *most* people can't tell the difference. I believe most people can tell the difference. But there are individual reasons for getting one car over another. We can debate these reasons.
The monthly sales figures for the TL and 3 series combined is maybe about 15,000. There are 15,000 individual reasons of why one was chosen over another. I can only tell you why I chose BMW. The other 14,999 reasons we'll either have to make up or guess.
Sep 2003 330i only 720 units sold Oct 2003 330i only 754 units sold Oct 2004 330i only 844 units sold May 2005 330i only 543 units sold the new 330i only 1990 units sold
You can add the AWD too (mind you sedan only)
Running an average speed of 87 from SF to San Diego I got over 30 mpg in my e46. Many people simply refuse to believe it. It does fly in the face of physics that a car running 100 mph can get 29-30 mpg
Agree, I am adding press and label, because it's not performance. At a track, G35 will beat a BMW 325. Now, feel, that's complete opinion. I like the way Infinities feel. You can only drive/feel 1 car at a time. Once you buy a car, you live/enjoy the feel for the life of ownership. There is not a differentiating daily "comparison" during the life of ownership. Unless you own both 3 and g35 and drive both and compare everyday, who can tell, and I know a G35 is a darn enjoyable ride. The 3.5 l, 298 hp engine sounds better when pushed, compared to a smaller 2.5 liter. That's a daily reminder for the power you have.
Insert a key into the ignition and turn the key. Insert the fob into the slot, push the botton. What's the diff and who cares? The DRIVING is the thing.
That's my point, without TL competition, how many TL owners would have bought BMWs 10 years ago? I think many. Market share is the point, and BMW no longer dominates like it used to. The BMW label means a lot to many, but Acura and Infiniti are cutting into BMW's sales.
no way. The kind of person that likes the current TL would have turned his nose up at the far more spartan and crude e36 3 series.
I believe most people select cars based on appearance and reputation, in that order. Most people never drive their cars hard enough to tell the difference between these cars from a performance perspective. I owned a 2001 325Ci and I will be picking up my new G35 6 speed Friday. The BMW handles better, but only at the limit. I also have a BMW Z3 3.0i and a Miata. The Miata autocrosses better than any of my other cars. I speed up for turns. I would probably have purchased the Accura TL if it had rear wheel drive. I think it's the best looking of the three cars. Unfortunately, although I've owned some front wheel drive cars, I find them very unsatisfyining to drive near the limit. Too much understeer in the corners and torque steer during acceleration. The Infiniti, blessed with rear wheel drive, is only a little behind the Accura TL in appearance and well ahead of the BMW 3 series. When the last BMW generation came out I couldn't order one fast enough. The new style leaves me cold. Additionally, to get comparable performance from a BMW, I'd need to get the 3.0 engine and spend a whole lot more than for the Infiniti. When I test drive a car I usually scare the salesperson and I've tried all three cars. I like them all in different ways, but when it came down to my personal tastes the Infiniti was the best all around package for me. Unfortunately Infiniti makes very few (1%-2%) 6 speeds, so I've had to wait almost two months for my special order. All three of these cars are excellent vehicles. You will enjoy whatever you select.
Cool, someone agrees: Additionally, to get comparable performance from a BMW, I'd need to get the 3.0 engine and spend a whole lot more than for the Infiniti.
Most people never drive their cars hard enough to tell the difference between these cars from a performance perspective.
Your point is well taken and BMW has a broad market it's attempting to satisfy, however, my point is that when one adds up the attributes of an Infinity, Audi, and a BMW before making the determination about which to buy, It would seem that the entry system would rank rather low when compared to the vehicle's actual performance on the road.
If we were all to forget about the value/price factor, which car would you really buy or would have bought?
if the TL, 3 series and G35 were all priced at 30k w/ all the bells and whistles then it would come down to pure driving experience, wouldnt it???
personally i went with the g35 mainly for the driving dyamics AND that the base 06 beemer didnt even have power seats (moonroof standard but no power seats even on the driver's side??!!)
if they were priced the same though id have to say im 51%g35 49%bmw.....
For example, the Accord in Japan is smaller than the American model
In fact, the Japanese/European Accord is what is sold here as the Acura TSX, and I was considering that car before I decided instead on my BMW 325i. But I'm still looking at it as a good possibility for my wife's next car.
I think that the main reason for U.S. (and elsewhere?) BMW sales being down in the early months of this year has a simple explanation. The 3 series is far and away the biggest seller for BMW -- a large percentage of their sales. And since at least the first of the year, if not sooner, everyone who knows anything about BMWs has known that the new car would be out in the April/May timeframe. So the sales downturn was probably due in a large part to people waiting for the E90 to come out. The reduced sales might continue for a while yet as others wait for the other versions of the E90 to start arriving here (the 325, ix models, etc.).
Once BMW gets the full range of E90s into production and on the lots, I would guess that their sales will be right back on target.
I would certainly pick the BMW if all had the same equipment at the same price. But they don't. I posted this in another forum:
"I test drove the 325 and the 330 yesterday and they were excellent vehicles. I really don't think I would want to be in any other car when I'm approaching a sharp turn at high speeds. However, I doubt I'll be driving that way most of the time, especially since it's my car! Also, pricing does mean something to me. I configured the 325 and the G35 on their websites, similarly equipped. The MSRP for the 325 was $40,400 and for the G was $35,800, a price difference of $4,600. The BMW does have bluetooth, which is important to me. However, I don't know I can justify the price difference to myself, especially knowing I can deal significantly on the G35. I expect the "real world" price difference between these vehicles would be close to 6-7 K after the deals were done.
Does anyone know if there will be any changes to the 2006 GS? Will bluetooth be available?"
I configured both cars with most options except Nav system.
It's fun, but silly to think about what you'd buy if all cars cost the same and had the same features. Might as well consider what you'd buy if all cars had the same handling and performance. Certainly the 3 series would be at the bottom of your list b/c it's the smallest of the 3 and cost the most. If they all performed the same, I'd think the TL would have to be the main choice b/c it's FWD is better on wet roads and it's navigation is 2nd only to the Infiniti M.
"If they all performed the same, I'd think the TL would have to be the main choice b/c it's FWD is better on wet roads and it's navigation is 2nd only to the Infiniti M."
Ummm, I think not. If anything, the TL is the worst of the three on wet roads. Why? Its FWD related torque steer, which is only a problem at the highest of power settings on dry roads, becomes and absolute nightmare when accelerating from a stop and turning at the same time, or when accelerating/climbing a hill on a curve. No thanks, give me RWD any day.
I bought a BMW 3 recently for no other reasons than “I WANT A BMW”. I really don’t care if a TL or a G35 is a "better car""> or not. I drive a BMW.
I bought my 325i in January because I bought a 318ti back in August of 1995. Ten years on and that ti still drives like new. Over those ten years it had one mechanical failure (the ignition switch went bad) apart from the usual wear-and-tear items (batteries, tires, etc.) I hated the idea of trading it in so much that I put off buying a new car for as long as I could. Then it hit me: Buy a new car and don't trade in the ti.
I came close to buying a MB C230 late last year but the deal fell through. I looked at the G35, but they told me the manuals wouldn't be out until February. I considered the IS300, but no dealers in my area had any manuals in stock, and none of them had any on order, nor were they planning on adding any to their inventory, ever.
The Acura and Audi are FWD...
The BMW was pretty much the only choice.
I'd gone seven years without a car payment. Now I have two BMWs and I still don't have a car payment.
Besides, the 3-series isn't a re-badged 350Z, or Accord... and the IS300's tail looks an awful lot like a Corolla to me.
New to the forum, but here's my opinion... Recently, I had a chance to drive the BMW 330i, Acura TL and G35. It was in a large parking lot with acres of cones set up. We had a chance to drive them as hard as we wanted back-to-back-to-back several times. Now, I'll preface this by saying I know that you are not going to hop off the interstate only to find yourself in a 300 ft. slalom through cones leading into a 180-degree hairpin, but... The TL's front end could not be controlled. I couldn't dive into a corner and accelerate out, otherwise a few cones would find themselves lodged underneath the front end. Sure, the interior was nice, and it was a rather large car. The G35 was powerful, take-off speed was great, but when it came to turning the car back-and-forth, the body roll was horrible. It took a few laps just to be able to predict where the thing was going to straighten up and hopefully hit the right line. That is what I loved about the BMW 330i. It was predictable, precise. I was always in control. The power was there, the handling was there (steering was tighter) ... It was a better all-around car in that situation. Granted, when we took them on the interstate, all felt solid at 80mph+. So, a lot will have to do with looks and price I'm sure, but one thing not being taken into account here is maintenance. Sure, the Japanese cars (which, let's face it are Hondas and Nissans) will not cost as much to maintain, but BMW's is free anyway. I think you have to figure that in when you are doing price comparisons. Any response is appreciated, and I've really enjoyed reading everyone's opinion during the last few days.
Came close to buying 06 325i but went with a rebadged 350z (w/four doors)
And sure, i was aware of the fact that part of the benefits of driving a BMW is being able to say "i drive a BMW", but after a couple test drives went with the G35, which arguably, according to some magazines surpassed the previous generation 3 series in driving dynamics. Ultimately its an individual choice, i used to drive a rebadged toyota camry before the G35
I wish i would have been there. Just like everyone has an opinion with a car's exterior design, interior appointments, etc.... driving dyamics can be quite subjective as well. Ive driven both a 325i and g35 and the difference in the handling is quite striking, but unlike you ive never driven them through "acres of cones" .
I guess what im trying to say is that as far as comparisons go, Motor Trend, C&D, Edmunds have endless resources when it comes to testing every aspect of a car but yet they come up with different conlusions, I was somewhat steered by the fact that it seemed like most magazines favored the G35 over the previous generation 3 series...but in contrast to that Edmunds did a comparo a few years ago where a previous generation 03 TL S Type beat the 03 g35.
Comments
And the optional system, which isn't available yet, does not require you to insert the fob in a slot.
What else is part of this "Comfort Access" package that'll be available later?
I believe that's it. someone else may know for sure. for me it's worth $500 to never have to turn a key or even reach for my key when approaching the car.
But all press, and us portray German cars as: high quality, reliable, powerfull, and good value. But they're not.
Japan is a parking lot. Traffic moves at a Manhattan pace over most of their islands. People take the train, which is the fast and efficient to get anywhere. The Japanese do place an extreme priority on image - so their cars look futuristic, have great numbers, and state of the art electronic bells and whistles. But for high speed driving feel, the Germans have them beat.
Anyone want to jump on this grenade?
Why? They are selling strong and those that like german cars immediately see a difference between what they favor and what they deny (japanese cars).
Germany's not in any danger. Now American companies...they're going where they belong...
It's going to take a few months to see what the market thinks of the new 3 series.
However, it is the benchmark in terms of the driving experience.
Acura TL & TSX sales were up slightly (34K to 36K) with the TL flat and TSX up a lot.
G35 sales were flat.
Lexus overall car sales were down 2% in 2005 vs 2004 with ES down over 15% and IS down 47%. Otoh, the new GS300 was up over 300%.
First, I remember hearing volvo as "box" on wheels.
But if you noticed and look at pre 1999 BMW's,
I think "box" on wheels was a tough race to call between volvo's and BMW 3's.
Then redesign of 3 series > 1998.
Then 7 series(2002), but I think this and Aztec competed for uglist car on the road.
It looks like a 3 is trying to hatch out of the 7 series trunk "alien" style.
Then I-drive. I am thinking these design changes are an attempt at product differentiation in a more competitive market.
I bet this Comfort Access becomes standard for the 2007 model.
In May, BMW sold 8185 3 series sedans.
The TL was second at 7032.
The TL was second at 7032.
That's my point, without TL competition, how many TL owners would have bought BMWs 10 years ago? I think many. Market share is the point, and BMW no longer dominates like it used to. The BMW label means a lot to many, but Acura and Infiniti are cutting into BMW's sales.
Of course, that's the way the market works. I'm sure the new 3-series will also take sales from Acura and Infiniti.
Why would someone pay $30k for 184hp, when they can get 298hp for equal price.
Why should anyone pay more inefficient german manufacturing process and costlier labor? Paying more doesn't always mean you are getting a better product.
So why do you think people buy into this?
2) Performance
I'd be willing to bet that 75% of the BMW drivers couldn't tell the difference between the driving dynamics of their 3 series and the FWD Acura TL. They bought the Bimmer because 1) it's cool, 2), their neighbor/friend/relative has one, 3) it has more cachet than the Japanese competition, 4) it's a sign that they've "made it."
There's no economic rationale to buy a BMW over a TL or a G35. Let's face it, most of us spend most of our driving time just getting from point A to point B. All three of these will do that in comfort, luxury, and at speeds well above the legal limits.
You've decided the line in the sand is the TL or G35. If you drove let's say an E46 and TL back to back you would find an amazing difference, if you are an enthusiast who can drive a car.
There are people who can't tell the difference between a GT3 and a 20 year old Yugo. These people are not the people that I would include in this conversation.
If's funny you think a person buys a BMW for status and performance.
Why do people buy a TL or R? Made by Acura the upscale division of Honda. Maybe for status and performance?
If there is no economic reason to buy a BMW over a TL or G35, there is just no justification for buying any of these cars. For they are all overpriced compared to other reliable vehicles to get you from point A to B.
I wouldnt consider myself an expert of any sort, but even i noted a definite difference between driving the 06 3 series and a G35....never drove a TL , but i did drive my aunt's 04 Accord sedan which is the same as a TL (just kidding frisconick).
You are absolutely right. But people don't always make rational economic decisions, thus we are blessed with abundant choices of transportation.
Re-read my post. I didn't say there wasn't a difference between the cars, I opined that most drivers and even most drivers of these particular cars, couldn't tell the difference. Clearly, this forum is populated by driving enthusiasts, most of whom can.
And thus, we debate the merits of these cars endlessly with no one changing anyone else's opinion
I disagree *most* people can't tell the difference. I believe most people can tell the difference. But there are individual reasons for getting one car over another. We can debate these reasons.
The monthly sales figures for the TL and 3 series combined is maybe about 15,000. There are 15,000 individual reasons of why one was chosen over another. I can only tell you why I chose BMW. The other 14,999 reasons we'll either have to make up or guess.
Oct 2003 330i only 754 units sold
Oct 2004 330i only 844 units sold
May 2005 330i only 543 units sold
the new 330i only 1990 units sold
You can add the AWD too (mind you sedan only)
Running an average speed of 87 from SF to San Diego I got over 30 mpg in my e46. Many people simply refuse to believe it. It does fly in the face of physics that a car running 100 mph can get 29-30 mpg
50 mph = 31-34mpg
65-75 mph = 36-40mph
90-100 mph = ???? 45?
I believe you :P
I am adding press and label,
because it's not performance. At a track, G35 will beat a BMW 325.
Now, feel, that's complete opinion. I like the way Infinities feel.
You can only drive/feel 1 car at a time.
Once you buy a car, you live/enjoy the feel for the life of ownership.
There is not a differentiating daily "comparison" during the life of ownership.
Unless you own both 3 and g35 and drive both and compare everyday, who can tell, and I know a G35 is a darn enjoyable ride. The 3.5 l, 298 hp engine sounds better when pushed, compared to a smaller 2.5 liter. That's a daily reminder for the power you have.
Because Accord is too damned ugly
So does BMW, or else they wouldn't offer the "Smart Access" package.
These are Sports sedans with some luxury. Luxury means the "little things".
Driving is not the ONLY thing. If so, why bother with a stereo? leather? power seats? power windows? a/c? etc..
no way. The kind of person that likes the current TL would have turned his nose up at the far more spartan and crude e36 3 series.
I would probably have purchased the Accura TL if it had rear wheel drive. I think it's the best looking of the three cars. Unfortunately, although I've owned some front wheel drive cars, I find them very unsatisfyining to drive near the limit. Too much understeer in the corners and torque steer during acceleration.
The Infiniti, blessed with rear wheel drive, is only a little behind the Accura TL in appearance and well ahead of the BMW 3 series. When the last BMW generation came out I couldn't order one fast enough. The new style leaves me cold. Additionally, to get comparable performance from a BMW, I'd need to get the 3.0 engine and spend a whole lot more than for the Infiniti.
When I test drive a car I usually scare the salesperson and I've tried all three cars. I like them all in different ways, but when it came down to my personal tastes the Infiniti was the best all around package for me. Unfortunately Infiniti makes very few (1%-2%) 6 speeds, so I've had to wait almost two months for my special order.
All three of these cars are excellent vehicles. You will enjoy whatever you select.
Additionally, to get comparable performance from a BMW, I'd need to get the 3.0 engine and spend a whole lot more than for the Infiniti.
Most people never drive their cars hard enough to tell the difference between these cars from a performance perspective.
if the TL, 3 series and G35 were all priced at 30k w/ all the bells and whistles then it would come down to pure driving experience, wouldnt it???
personally i went with the g35 mainly for the driving dyamics AND that the base 06 beemer didnt even have power seats (moonroof standard but no power seats even on the driver's side??!!)
if they were priced the same though id have to say im 51%g35 49%bmw.....
anyone else???
lol
In fact, the Japanese/European Accord is what is sold here as the Acura TSX, and I was considering that car before I decided instead on my BMW 325i. But I'm still looking at it as a good possibility for my wife's next car.
Once BMW gets the full range of E90s into production and on the lots, I would guess that their sales will be right back on target.
"I test drove the 325 and the 330 yesterday and they were excellent vehicles. I really don't think I would want to be in any other car when I'm approaching a sharp turn at high speeds. However, I doubt I'll be driving that way most of the time, especially since it's my car! Also, pricing does mean something to me. I configured the 325 and the G35 on their websites, similarly equipped. The MSRP for the 325 was $40,400 and for the G was $35,800, a price difference of $4,600. The BMW does have bluetooth, which is important to me. However, I don't know I can justify the price difference to myself, especially knowing I can deal significantly on the G35. I expect the "real world" price difference between these vehicles would be close to 6-7 K after the deals were done.
Does anyone know if there will be any changes to the 2006 GS? Will bluetooth be available?"
I configured both cars with most options except Nav system.
Ummm, I think not. If anything, the TL is the worst of the three on wet roads. Why? Its FWD related torque steer, which is only a problem at the highest of power settings on dry roads, becomes and absolute nightmare when accelerating from a stop and turning at the same time, or when accelerating/climbing a hill on a curve. No thanks, give me RWD any day.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I came close to buying a MB C230 late last year but the deal fell through. I looked at the G35, but they told me the manuals wouldn't be out until February. I considered the IS300, but no dealers in my area had any manuals in stock, and none of them had any on order, nor were they planning on adding any to their inventory, ever.
The Acura and Audi are FWD...
The BMW was pretty much the only choice.
I'd gone seven years without a car payment. Now I have two BMWs and I still don't have a car payment.
Besides, the 3-series isn't a re-badged 350Z, or Accord... and the IS300's tail looks an awful lot like a Corolla to me.
Recently, I had a chance to drive the BMW 330i, Acura TL and G35. It was in a large parking lot with acres of cones set up.
We had a chance to drive them as hard as we wanted back-to-back-to-back several times.
Now, I'll preface this by saying I know that you are not going to hop off the interstate only to find yourself in a 300 ft. slalom through cones leading into a 180-degree hairpin, but...
The TL's front end could not be controlled. I couldn't dive into a corner and accelerate out, otherwise a few cones would find themselves lodged underneath the front end. Sure, the interior was nice, and it was a rather large car.
The G35 was powerful, take-off speed was great, but when it came to turning the car back-and-forth, the body roll was horrible. It took a few laps just to be able to predict where the thing was going to straighten up and hopefully hit the right line.
That is what I loved about the BMW 330i. It was predictable, precise. I was always in control. The power was there, the handling was there (steering was tighter) ... It was a better all-around car in that situation.
Granted, when we took them on the interstate, all felt solid at 80mph+.
So, a lot will have to do with looks and price I'm sure, but one thing not being taken into account here is maintenance.
Sure, the Japanese cars (which, let's face it are Hondas and Nissans) will not cost as much to maintain, but BMW's is free anyway. I think you have to figure that in when you are doing price comparisons.
Any response is appreciated, and I've really enjoyed reading everyone's opinion during the last few days.
And sure, i was aware of the fact that part of the benefits of driving a BMW is being able to say "i drive a BMW", but after a couple test drives went with the G35, which arguably, according to some magazines surpassed the previous generation 3 series in driving dynamics. Ultimately its an individual choice, i used to drive a rebadged toyota camry before the G35
and ive never mistaken a corolla for an is300
Just like everyone has an opinion with a car's exterior design, interior appointments, etc.... driving dyamics can be quite subjective as well.
Ive driven both a 325i and g35 and the difference in the handling is quite striking, but unlike you ive never driven them through "acres of cones" .
I guess what im trying to say is that as far as comparisons go, Motor Trend, C&D, Edmunds have endless resources when it comes to testing every aspect of a car but yet they come up with different conlusions, I was somewhat steered by the fact that it seemed like most magazines favored the G35 over the previous generation 3 series...but in contrast to that Edmunds did a comparo a few years ago where a previous generation 03 TL S Type beat the 03 g35.