"I was somewhat steered by the fact that it seemed like most magazines favored the G35 over the previous generation 3 series" I would agree. The E46 certainly lacked the power and overall room of the G35, plus, the G35 certainly would attract the eye more than say a 325i. Yet, some folks like, and always will like, the "low-key" styling of the E46. I still love the styling of the early-90's coupe.
Any body have an input on their experience, especially in driving/handling with the 6MT. I am looking at BMW325i, but some how my eye get drawn to the MB.....even though I know the recent rep for quality is not good.
When I drove both they handled better than you could ever resonably push them on the street anyway.Both are great driving cars that you have to nit pick apart as it is.The thing is the BMW doesnt accelerate hard enough to really excite me.And lets face it you can stomp on it when you pass on the highway or on entrance ramps alot more often then you will ever safely test its handling limits.In this respect the infinity is a great choice.
I have to second that--i have driven a 325i and a TL back to back through cones, and that alone put me off of the TL. I just couldn't use any power in corners. I thought even the FWD 9-3 was significantly better in this respect.
Now, most people don't care about this degree of at-the-limit handling, and if it handles an entrance ramp hard, it's fine. So for them the TL is probably better.
J, I was just "josh'n" with those "re-badge" comments.
If it wasn't for a timing issue I'd probably be driving a G35 (coupe; 6MT) right now. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with picking the G35. It's a superb automobile. If you're happy with it that's all that matters. The IS300 is also a worthy car. I wouldn't (seriously) criticize anyone for choosing any of these cars.
By the way, I didn't buy either BMW because they're BMWs. (That was somebody else.) I bought them because I thought they were the best cars that fit my needs at the time I bought them.
I was somewhat steered by the fact that it seemed like most magazines favored the G35 over the previous generation 3 series...but in contrast to that Edmunds did a comparo a few years ago where a previous generation 03 TL S Type beat the 03 g35.
Why were you steered by other people's opinions?
Regardless, the G35 when pressed to the edge will snap. We're not talking a little oversteer...the car will sawp ends rather suddenly. I know because it happened to me. The editor here on Edmunds mentioned on his board that he had that happen to him too. Other mags bring it up and then move on as if it's no big deal. Maybe I push my cars harder than most but I don't like the idea of a car hopping or skipping sideways on my suddenly.
As a matter of fact I test drove one back in November. I thought the handling was fine, not as soft as I was lead to believe, but quite comfortable. I'd add that the 6MT is a must. I also drove an automatic and there was a noticeable lag coming off the line that simply wasn't detectable with the manual.
As far as quality... The quality is fine, it's the reliability that's being questioned. As far as that goes, you might want to skip on the "bells-and-whistles", they just increase the number of things that can go wrong.
Oh and, the shifting was smooth and precise -- better than any of the others I was testing at the time.
Is that the coupe or the sedan that swaps ends? CR said it fish-tailed, but they only tested the sedan. If the coupe swaps ends, I don't want it. :surprise:
That is precisely why most if not all high-performance sports cars and virtually all race cars are RWD. There is no getting around the sheer physics of weight transfer. Any manufacturer with any serious pretense of producing a high performance vehicle, will do so in RWD--thus there are no FWD Porsches or Ferraris.
"Why were you steered by other people's opinions? "
I didnt say i was steered by "other people's opinions" , i stated that i referred to magazines/publications that most would consider as reliable or even expert sources/opinions. I'd like to think i did adequate research, as i once again stated in my post , opinions vary , even those of these so called "experts". I had a consumer reports subscription, if i listened to them id be driving a TL, if i listened to edmunds id be driving a bmw... Consumer reports addressed the handling concerns you mentioned but at the same time it was also a motor trend car of the year...even with the handling concerns, so ultimately i gathered the research i performed , test drove some cars and purchased the car i thought was the best balance between value , performance and comfort.
I remember my impressions of these three cars during the Lexus driving event I attended last year. They had an autocross of sorts set up, and I was able to aggressively drive the TL, 330i (E46), and G35 back to back.
As I recall, my impressions were that the TL was too soft (no surprise). The body roll was pronounced, and the car pushed through corners like the nose heavy, all-season tire wearing car that it was. It does have a fine interior though...
Next, the 330i (non-SP). The BMW had the best ride/handling compromise of the three, but it too felt soft when pushed hard through the corners. It didn't understeer as much as the TL, but it still pushed at the limit, and the body roll was significant enough for me to be turned off. With auto transmission, it was also the dog of the group.
Finally, I was most impressed with the G35. It was the Sports Car of the bunch. It had the most powerful acceleration and strongest feeling motor, and the suspension was firm (just right for me). It's remarkable that a car this large and heavy can feel so light and tossable. Body motions were well controlled, and the car was easy to steer with throttle. I do know, however, from a not-too-recent test drive that it's freeway ride is the harshest of the bunch. It's interior, though improved last year, still strikes me as cheap and contrived.
If I had to choose one as a daily driver, I'd have to take th middle road and say the BMW has the best compromise of the group. Soft enough to be comfortable on trips, but firm enough to have fun with. Certainly closer to ideal with the Sport Package and 3 pedals. If the E90 is an improvement, it's likely a fine driver (though too bloated for my tastes).
I enjoyed your comments. I envy your opportunity to beat them up on a closed course. When I test drove each of these three cars, I couldn’t drive any of them fast enough on the “back roads” to test their limits, and all three felt rock solid on the highway. Did the BMW have the performance package? When I drove the G35, I did not experience any excessive body roll. I drove the stick, which comes standard with the sport suspension. Was your G35 a stick or an automatic? If an automatic, did it have the sport suspension? Considering the high limits of all these cars, did you notice such a pronounced difference among them when driven at 70%- 80% of their limit?
Best wishes with your BMW. As I stated, I owned a 325Ci and currently own a BMW Z3 3.0i. I've been a member of the BMW Car Club of America for 6 years and was the Massachusetts state representative for the BMW Z series club for 2 years. I love my Z3 and I will continue to take it on long country top down drives this summer. It was a tough decision for me to not get a new BMW 3 series and go with the G35, but the Infiniti suited me for personal reasons. As I also said before, these are all great cars and you can be happy with any of them, without needing to disparage the others. Have fun with your BMW.
I imagine the coupe does it too - same basic car - but it was a sedan that did some weird stuff on me. Also a sedan that flipped around on Edmunds' editor Karl.
Even though my prior car was an MT COTY winner (Chrysler 300M), I gotta agree. It's really isn't that prestigious. Indeed, I believe such classics as the Chevy Vega, Renault Alliance and Chevy Malibu have shared that award...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
geez...my point was that car handling,etc can be quite subjective as well, not that the COTY meant that the g35 was the best car ever. I even pointed out that edmunds rated an or TL s type ahead of an 03 g35.
My "not worthy" comment was meant to pre-empt those who would point out that those who don't drive one shouldn't comment.
I'm gradually coming to understand that I'll likely end up with a BMW, given that I want a reasonably well appointed car with a manual transmission & a fold-down rear seat.
Conflicted? You bet. Those who own one because "it's a BMW" drive me to distraction. Fortunately, many on Edmunds don't fall into that category.
Much as Mark (of Audi fame) was able to "grow" into an Asian vehicle, I've been learning that BMW's aren't always driven by the status-seeking people I've learned to avoid in the rest of my life.
Now, I'm watching the long-term reliability thing. For those of us who buy and hold, latching onto a 2-3 year old vehicle off-lease appears to be the way to go.
Your comments echo my own feelings of seven years ago. Back then I was a happy 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed driver and was looking forward to getting a 1999 Passat with the same basic features as my 1995 plus a couple of extra goodies like power memory seats, climate control and automatic wipers. As fortune would have it, the 1998 Passat GLX was equipped exactly as I wanted my next car to be equipped, then came the 1999 model year. Bzzzt! I'm sorry, that is incorrect! Why? VW in their infinite wisdom discontinued the 5-Speed manual for that model year, and that model year only. Why? Beats the willies out of me.
As I refused to yield on my combination of a manual transmission and at the very least the power seats (I was valet parking two to three times a week at that time and YIKES can a parking valet screw up a perfectly positioned manual seat), and climate control (I hate fiddling with the controls every time the sun goes behind a cloud in the summer time). So, with the above in mind, that left the following cars: - Infiniti I30/Nissan Maxima twins (ugly and mushy suspensions compared to my Passat) - Audi A4 (too small in the back seat area -- two kids in car seats you know) - Saab 9-3 (local dealer refused to order me one with a 5-Speed) - Volvo S70 (same dealer as the Saab, and the same attitude regarding the 5-Speed) - BMW 528i (too slow, couldn't afford the 540i, and ewwww, that BMW stigma) - BMW 328i (a little smaller inside than the 1999 Passat but otherwise just about perfect excepting of course for that same BMW stigma)
With all of that said, once I drove the 328i, I was hooked. Nuthin' and I do mean NUTHIN' even came close, so, stigma be damned. I've been driving BMWs ever since.
Ok now Edmunds has done it. Why in the world would they compare a A4 2.0t to a 330i? Totally ridiculous. Of course the 330i would win that contest quite easily.
Those who own one because "it's a BMW" drive me to distraction.
They drive me bonkers. A girl at a party came up to me and said, "I have a bmw too." I asked what model. She blinked. blinked again. "It's a bmw. the little one."
Ah, yes, the typical Southern California BMW owner. My peers...golly, how lucky I am.
Ok now Edmunds has done it. Why in the world would they compare a A4 2.0t to a 330i? Totally ridiculous. Of course the 330i would win that contest quite easily.
Did you actually read the article? They clearly state that Audi sent them the the sportiest A4 made; Audi doesn't make a manual A4 with the V6. Audi knew going in that their top A4 in performance wasn't the V6 model. kinda sad when you think about it. Their A3 wih a DSG is a better performing car.
BTW, what the blazes is wrong with Edmunds test drivers? Everybody and their mother is getting low 6s for the A3 DSG. Edmunds gets close to 7 seconds?! Then they get a 6.6 with a 330i? The car's far more powerful than my old school e46 with performance package (I've driven e90s and they're better in every way) - a car that scampered to 60 in under 6 seconds. something's totally off with their testing.
Yeah I read it, they should have just compared both 6-cylinders with automatics or probably not at all. Doesn't make any sense to me. A turbo 4 vs the industry standard I6? No way. Either way Audi dropping the manual/V6 combo is a mistake if Mercedes can offer a manual in the C350.
In addition to continuing the conversation here, feel free to drop by Karl's Daily Log Book and discuss your reactions directly with Karl Brauer, Editor in Chief of Edmunds.com.
After spending the whole day yesterday driving it, I think a JC chip will be enough for me. Next to my Miata, this is the best performing car I've ever owned, and a thrill to drive - just the way it is.
Believe it or not ... The E46 with a performance package and manual transmission could go 0-60 in 5.9 sec. The 0-60 time of an E90 with a manual transmission can hit 6.1 sec. Weird...
Believe it or not ... The E46 with a performance package and manual transmission could go 0-60 in 5.9 sec. The 0-60 time of an E90 with a manual transmission can hit 6.1 sec. Weird...
Can someone explain what’s wrong with BMW stigma? What’s wrong with loving the car simply because it bears some specific name? Look, I understand if you drive bmw and do not even know what model is that you are driving, like the girl in blueguydotcom’s example – those people simply do not deserve to drive this great vehicle. On a contrary I know my car in and out, I understand exactly what I am driving. But at the same time, when I decided that I am buying a new car I had no doubt about the make. And the thing “because it is bmw” was my main reason. Simply because I always liked this car. I always wanted this car. I always respected this car and even people who are driving this car simply because for me bmw is a symbol. Symbol of something positive. Symbol of me achieved something for just 13 years living in USA. Something that I would never be able to achieve in my native country doing things legally. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. So, what’s wrong with loving BMW just because it is BMW? mike
The "Stigma" that I was referring to, and what I objected to, is sort of two separate parts:
1) The poseurs who buy a BMW to make a statement but have no idea/inclination on how to actually drive the damn thing 2) The "Slash & Burn" drivers, which in days gone by were often exemplified by someone in a BMW slicing his or her way down a crowded roadway, cutting off folks with blatant disregard for anybody but themselves.
From my perspective, you cannot do anything about Stigma #1, it is what it is and now with the advent of the Japanese luxury brands, the BMW poseur thing has been reasonably diluted. As for the Stigma #2 folks, that too seems to have been a bit diluted in recent years with the advent of slammed Hondas, Neons and Gallants that many gear heads seem to be fond of.
At this point, now seven years after I initially went through the process of convincing myself to even consider driving a BMW, I don't even give it a second thought. I have really liked my two BMWs, and it is surely going to take one hell of an amazing car from some other marque for me seriously look elsewhere.
I was incredibly nervous about buying mine. As a matter of fact, I delayed my purchase over a year because I wanted BMW - the car - but didn't want BMW - the name.
I live in a pretty rural, mostly farming area. There is not much money (at least not on display) in the area and an early 80's F150 is much more common than anything foreign. Before I got my car, I knew of only one other BMW in our area and it was an old, rusting junk pile sitting next to a barn. On top of that, in my family - immediate, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc - I'm the only person with a college degree so again, not too much money floating around.
I was afraid that by buying the BMW, it would be seen as me showing off. In local terms, "getting too big for my britches". In hindsight, that never materialized.
I can't believe you guys are even talking about "stigmas". I like the fact that people admire the care and compliment me on it and asks how it handles. That is my "stigma" with the vehicle.
People who express jealousy at a BMW, probably do the same thing for a big pricey house, expensive jewelery, expensive clothing etc. In other words there are people who don't want you to have more than them? Why indulge someones jealousy of you?
If you are 20 years old and image consious you may want to look deep and hard at your values. But for people who have been around the block in life, who cares what other people think? :lemon:
I always wanted this car. I always respected this car and even people who are driving this car simply because for me bmw is a symbol. Symbol of something positive. Symbol of me achieved something for just 13 years living in USA
Those reasons are the exact ones I don't want to own a BMW. I don't want to be associated with yuppie achievers and wannabes anymore than the association one gets from owning a secretaries' car like an Eclipse or a the million pejoratives associated with Camaro/Mustang/Vette owners. The list goes on and on. At least Infiniti and Acura's TSX/TL/RL don't suffer from preconceived notions...they're simply solid, nice cars.
In the 80s and 90s Yuppies made BMW a symbol of greed, selfishness, conspicuous consumption (not at hummer levels but close) and new wealth. The car's abilities have become second to the logo. Buy one and you're immediately associated with that group of people. I recall a really close friend, a girl who worked for me and I view like a little sister, responded quite simply when I told her I bought a BMW, "But you're not one of those people." Yes, apparently I am. She's an attorney now at a huge law firm and she's making megabucks. When asked what she'll buy for her next car, she responds the same way, "I'll keep my Hyundai until the wheels fall off."
Ah but you're an individual and you're not part of that culture...right, but the reality is that people treat you differently based on things like the car you're driving (or the clothes you're wearing). I get 500% more people talking to me when I'm in the BMW. Especially girls. I don't like that! I stop for gas and people talk to me about the car. I don't like that! Other people in BMWs think we're in some kind of special fraternity and talk to me as if I know them. I don't like that. A few people I know - people I would not call friends - will ask me, "Which car did you drive tonight?" What difference does it make; they both seat 5!
If the car didn't drive the way it does, I wouldn't have bought one. Fought it tooth and nail and now I'm stuck in some guilt-ridden, angst-filled world where I despise what my car represents to 99% of the world but love the moment I turn the engine on.
Blueguydotcom, I can simply say that you are getting physical enjoyment in driving you car, but you are not getting moral pleasure/enjoyment at all. I don’t thing you are getting 100% of what you could have. Please understand – place (or car) does not make the person. It the other way around –person makes the place (the car). Yes, people have some stereotypes and it’s hard to change them. And you don’t have to change them. But don’t deprive yourself from the enjoyment simply because you think that people associate you with some group of achievers etc. I am not a reach guy, I am not and never will be a part of them who are reach and play golf on weekend at expansive private golf clubs. And if people mistakenly associate me with that group that you despise, well, there is nothing I can do, but at least it will never have any influence on my love to this car and on my enjoyment driving and owning it. And if I get more attention and respect from other just because I drive bmw –let it be so. If I have a chance –I’ll certainly show that I deserve respect for other reasons and not because I drive bmw. If I don’t have that chance, well... I cannot change the world. But I will not deprive myself from 100% of enjoinment for some selfish reasons. It is only my opinion. mike
"least Infiniti and Acura's TSX/TL/RL don't suffer from preconceived notions"
Wow are you ever wrong about that. The perception is these are the cars that upscale people get when they can't afford a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Lexus.
Wow are you ever wrong about that. The perception is these are the cars that upscale people get when they can't afford a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Lexus.
Never have a I met a non BMW/Audi/Lexus/MB person in CA who expresses something negative about Acura/Infiniti owners. Owners of those makes express negative things about Acura/Infiniti but one can surmise all sorts of reasons why they'd feel the need to lash out...probably closely related to why they bought a car with a 3 point star or a blue and white propellor.
Now Caddy, BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Porsche, Vette...yes. Often. Just going by my experience. If I thought friends and family were bothered by me buying a BMW, my god, my parents would outright disown me if I ever muttered the word Cadillac.
Comments
I would agree. The E46 certainly lacked the power and overall room of the G35, plus, the G35 certainly would attract the eye more than say a 325i.
Yet, some folks like, and always will like, the "low-key" styling of the E46. I still love the styling of the early-90's coupe.
I don't, so I'm probably not worthy.
Your statement, however, is part of the reason.
Now, most people don't care about this degree of at-the-limit handling, and if it handles an entrance ramp hard, it's fine. So for them the TL is probably better.
If it wasn't for a timing issue I'd probably be driving a G35 (coupe; 6MT) right now. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with picking the G35. It's a superb automobile. If you're happy with it that's all that matters. The IS300 is also a worthy car. I wouldn't (seriously) criticize anyone for choosing any of these cars.
By the way, I didn't buy either BMW because they're BMWs. (That was somebody else.) I bought them because I thought they were the best cars that fit my needs at the time I bought them.
Not a benefit in my eyes. The worst part of owning a BMW...that damned name and logo on the car.
Why were you steered by other people's opinions?
Regardless, the G35 when pressed to the edge will snap. We're not talking a little oversteer...the car will sawp ends rather suddenly. I know because it happened to me. The editor here on Edmunds mentioned on his board that he had that happen to him too. Other mags bring it up and then move on as if it's no big deal. Maybe I push my cars harder than most but I don't like the idea of a car hopping or skipping sideways on my suddenly.
Hehe, I was always told that if I didn't occasionally get the car I was driving to swap ends, I wasn't driving hard enough. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
As far as quality... The quality is fine, it's the reliability that's being questioned. As far as that goes, you might want to skip on the "bells-and-whistles", they just increase the number of things that can go wrong.
Oh and, the shifting was smooth and precise -- better than any of the others I was testing at the time.
I didnt say i was steered by "other people's opinions" , i stated that i referred to magazines/publications that most would consider as reliable or even expert sources/opinions. I'd like to think i did adequate research, as i once again stated in my post , opinions vary , even those of these so called "experts". I had a consumer reports subscription, if i listened to them id be driving a TL, if i listened to edmunds id be driving a bmw...
Consumer reports addressed the handling concerns you mentioned but at the same time it was also a motor trend car of the year...even with the handling concerns, so ultimately i gathered the research i performed , test drove some cars and purchased the car i thought was the best balance between value , performance and comfort.
As I recall, my impressions were that the TL was too soft (no surprise). The body roll was pronounced, and the car pushed through corners like the nose heavy, all-season tire wearing car that it was. It does have a fine interior though...
Next, the 330i (non-SP). The BMW had the best ride/handling compromise of the three, but it too felt soft when pushed hard through the corners. It didn't understeer as much as the TL, but it still pushed at the limit, and the body roll was significant enough for me to be turned off. With auto transmission, it was also the dog of the group.
Finally, I was most impressed with the G35. It was the Sports Car of the bunch. It had the most powerful acceleration and strongest feeling motor, and the suspension was firm (just right for me). It's remarkable that a car this large and heavy can feel so light and tossable. Body motions were well controlled, and the car was easy to steer with throttle. I do know, however, from a not-too-recent test drive that it's freeway ride is the harshest of the bunch. It's interior, though improved last year, still strikes me as cheap and contrived.
If I had to choose one as a daily driver, I'd have to take th middle road and say the BMW has the best compromise of the group. Soft enough to be comfortable on trips, but firm enough to have fun with. Certainly closer to ideal with the Sport Package and 3 pedals. If the E90 is an improvement, it's likely a fine driver (though too bloated for my tastes).
Just my $0.02.
I'm as excited as a school kid on a snow day...
fedlawman, "BMW 3-Series Sedans - 2005 and earlier" #28584, 29 May 2005 11:51 pm
MT COTY...like the Ford Thunderbird? That "award" when tracked over 20 years is hardly an indicator of quality or decent engineering.
I like the G35 a whole bunch, but having a stamp of approval from MT is hardly worth mentioning.
You should always be proud of whatever you drive. I also drive a Passat Wagon on weekends carring my family shopping and visiting friends.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'm gradually coming to understand that I'll likely end up with a BMW, given that I want a reasonably well appointed car with a manual transmission & a fold-down rear seat.
Conflicted? You bet. Those who own one because "it's a BMW" drive me to distraction. Fortunately, many on Edmunds don't fall into that category.
Much as Mark (of Audi fame) was able to "grow" into an Asian vehicle, I've been learning that BMW's aren't always driven by the status-seeking people I've learned to avoid in the rest of my life.
Now, I'm watching the long-term reliability thing. For those of us who buy and hold, latching onto a 2-3 year old vehicle off-lease appears to be the way to go.
As I refused to yield on my combination of a manual transmission and at the very least the power seats (I was valet parking two to three times a week at that time and YIKES can a parking valet screw up a perfectly positioned manual seat), and climate control (I hate fiddling with the controls every time the sun goes behind a cloud in the summer time). So, with the above in mind, that left the following cars:
- Infiniti I30/Nissan Maxima twins (ugly and mushy suspensions compared to my Passat)
- Audi A4 (too small in the back seat area -- two kids in car seats you know)
- Saab 9-3 (local dealer refused to order me one with a 5-Speed)
- Volvo S70 (same dealer as the Saab, and the same attitude regarding the 5-Speed)
- BMW 528i (too slow, couldn't afford the 540i, and ewwww, that BMW stigma)
- BMW 328i (a little smaller inside than the 1999 Passat but otherwise just about perfect excepting of course for that same BMW stigma)
With all of that said, once I drove the 328i, I was hooked. Nuthin' and I do mean NUTHIN' even came close, so, stigma be damned. I've been driving BMWs ever since.
Best Regards,
Shipo
M
They drive me bonkers. A girl at a party came up to me and said, "I have a bmw too." I asked what model. She blinked. blinked again. "It's a bmw. the little one."
Ah, yes, the typical Southern California BMW owner.
It could be worse, I could own a Hummer.
Did you actually read the article? They clearly state that Audi sent them the the sportiest A4 made; Audi doesn't make a manual A4 with the V6. Audi knew going in that their top A4 in performance wasn't the V6 model. kinda sad when you think about it. Their A3 wih a DSG is a better performing car.
BTW, what the blazes is wrong with Edmunds test drivers? Everybody and their mother is getting low 6s for the A3 DSG. Edmunds gets close to 7 seconds?! Then they get a 6.6 with a 330i? The car's far more powerful than my old school e46 with performance package (I've driven e90s and they're better in every way) - a car that scampered to 60 in under 6 seconds. something's totally off with their testing.
M
In addition to continuing the conversation here, feel free to drop by Karl's Daily Log Book and discuss your reactions directly with Karl Brauer, Editor in Chief of Edmunds.com.
I see bluyguy's already there.
After spending the whole day yesterday driving it, I think a JC chip will be enough for me. Next to my Miata, this is the best performing car I've ever owned, and a thrill to drive - just the way it is.
The E46 with a performance package and manual transmission could go 0-60 in 5.9 sec. The 0-60 time of an E90 with a manual transmission can hit 6.1 sec.
Weird...
The E46 with a performance package and manual transmission could go 0-60 in 5.9 sec. The 0-60 time of an E90 with a manual transmission can hit 6.1 sec.
Weird...
I don't believe it. Not for a second.
So, what’s wrong with loving BMW just because it is BMW?
mike
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Of course, this is based on factory specs.
1) The poseurs who buy a BMW to make a statement but have no idea/inclination on how to actually drive the damn thing
2) The "Slash & Burn" drivers, which in days gone by were often exemplified by someone in a BMW slicing his or her way down a crowded roadway, cutting off folks with blatant disregard for anybody but themselves.
From my perspective, you cannot do anything about Stigma #1, it is what it is and now with the advent of the Japanese luxury brands, the BMW poseur thing has been reasonably diluted. As for the Stigma #2 folks, that too seems to have been a bit diluted in recent years with the advent of slammed Hondas, Neons and Gallants that many gear heads seem to be fond of.
At this point, now seven years after I initially went through the process of convincing myself to even consider driving a BMW, I don't even give it a second thought. I have really liked my two BMWs, and it is surely going to take one hell of an amazing car from some other marque for me seriously look elsewhere.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I live in a pretty rural, mostly farming area. There is not much money (at least not on display) in the area and an early 80's F150 is much more common than anything foreign. Before I got my car, I knew of only one other BMW in our area and it was an old, rusting junk pile sitting next to a barn. On top of that, in my family - immediate, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc - I'm the only person with a college degree so again, not too much money floating around.
I was afraid that by buying the BMW, it would be seen as me showing off. In local terms, "getting too big for my britches". In hindsight, that never materialized.
People who express jealousy at a BMW, probably do the same thing for a big pricey house, expensive jewelery, expensive clothing etc. In other words there are people who don't want you to have more than them? Why indulge someones jealousy of you?
If you are 20 years old and image consious you may want to look deep and hard at your values. But for people who have been around the block in life, who cares what other people think? :lemon:
Those reasons are the exact ones I don't want to own a BMW. I don't want to be associated with yuppie achievers and wannabes anymore than the association one gets from owning a secretaries' car like an Eclipse or a the million pejoratives associated with Camaro/Mustang/Vette owners. The list goes on and on. At least Infiniti and Acura's TSX/TL/RL don't suffer from preconceived notions...they're simply solid, nice cars.
In the 80s and 90s Yuppies made BMW a symbol of greed, selfishness, conspicuous consumption (not at hummer levels but close) and new wealth. The car's abilities have become second to the logo. Buy one and you're immediately associated with that group of people. I recall a really close friend, a girl who worked for me and I view like a little sister, responded quite simply when I told her I bought a BMW, "But you're not one of those people." Yes, apparently I am.
Ah but you're an individual and you're not part of that culture...right, but the reality is that people treat you differently based on things like the car you're driving (or the clothes you're wearing). I get 500% more people talking to me when I'm in the BMW. Especially girls. I don't like that! I stop for gas and people talk to me about the car. I don't like that! Other people in BMWs think we're in some kind of special fraternity and talk to me as if I know them. I don't like that. A few people I know - people I would not call friends - will ask me, "Which car did you drive tonight?" What difference does it make; they both seat 5!
If the car didn't drive the way it does, I wouldn't have bought one. Fought it tooth and nail and now I'm stuck in some guilt-ridden, angst-filled world where I despise what my car represents to 99% of the world but love the moment I turn the engine on.
I can simply say that you are getting physical enjoyment in driving you car, but you are not getting moral pleasure/enjoyment at all. I don’t thing you are getting 100% of what you could have. Please understand – place (or car) does not make the person. It the other way around –person makes the place (the car). Yes, people have some stereotypes and it’s hard to change them. And you don’t have to change them. But don’t deprive yourself from the enjoyment simply because you think that people associate you with some group of achievers etc.
I am not a reach guy, I am not and never will be a part of them who are reach and play golf on weekend at expansive private golf clubs. And if people mistakenly associate me with that group that you despise, well, there is nothing I can do, but at least it will never have any influence on my love to this car and on my enjoyment driving and owning it. And if I get more attention and respect from other just because I drive bmw –let it be so. If I have a chance –I’ll certainly show that I deserve respect for other reasons and not because I drive bmw. If I don’t have that chance, well... I cannot change the world. But I will not deprive myself from 100% of enjoinment for some selfish reasons.
It is only my opinion.
mike
Wow are you ever wrong about that. The perception is these are the cars that upscale people get when they can't afford a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Lexus.
It's already been tested at 5.6
Never have a I met a non BMW/Audi/Lexus/MB person in CA who expresses something negative about Acura/Infiniti owners. Owners of those makes express negative things about Acura/Infiniti but one can surmise all sorts of reasons why they'd feel the need to lash out...probably closely related to why they bought a car with a 3 point star or a blue and white propellor.
Now Caddy, BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Porsche, Vette...yes. Often. Just going by my experience. If I thought friends and family were bothered by me buying a BMW, my god, my parents would outright disown me if I ever muttered the word Cadillac.