Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

originalbitman · March 2001

hmmm... and something tells me your relationship with this dealer is going to improve much.

anibalb · March 2001

Bitman,

I was willing to pay the premium to establish a good relationship with Dealer. And it seems that it does not help one bit. I regret buying the car from them. The salesman did not go over anything with me at the end. Once I bought it he washed and handed me the key. Much different than when Dad bought Honda. They guy showed us how to use every button and knob! I am disgusted with their service and customer interaction. Thank God the car is ok.

Also, my dealer says to bring them the Subaru evaluation and they give you the first oil change free. I can just imagine what they want the evaluation!

Bitman where in Northern CA are you? I am in W.C. May need to go to your dealer!

kens · March 2001

Just dropped off my Forester to have the minor fender damage I obtained while driving up in the snowy roads of Yosemite. It should be about 4-5 days for them to rework sheet metal and do some touchup paint.

The owner of the body shop, Matt, recently purchased a WRX wagon and was gushing with praise for the vehicle. He's owned a NSX as well as Porsches and was quick to say that the WRX wagon was just as fun to drive. He noted the stiff chassis and quick steering.

I'm driving an Isuzu Trooper while my Forester gets worked on. Man, what a boat of a vehicle! The spaciousness is nice, but I miss the nimble handling of my vehicle.

Ken

miksmi · March 2001

>Isuzu Trooper..what a boat of a vehicle

Oh no, incoming!

locke2c · March 2001

Now why did you have to say that? I can hardly wait for the Trooper defense post from paisan...

I'm putting mine in the body shop as soon as I get the suspension bits I've been waiting on. The idea is to set the ride height where I want it and drive it there on R compounds, then have them relieve the rear fenders so that they don't rub. Yep, I'm a nut. :-D

-Colin

paisan · March 2001

Well yes it isn't my XT6, but if you know how to drive it and it has TOD, you can rock and roll it pretty good. Its all skill

Over the weekend, took one of the guys from the I-club down some backroads upstate NY, Trooper did outstanding 100+mph on the straightaways and held the paved curves just fine. I did wish for my XT6 on a few turns though, on the trip back from there to NYC 250miles, the seats and comfort were welcomed + the cargo space. Also since it comes with Hydrolic Shocks instead of gas ones, for about $300 you can vastly improve the stock handling

But hey different strokes for different folks

-mike

subaru_team · March 2001

I am not familiar with a "Carting tax". Can you please explain? On your profile, it list you as being from PRT. What area of the country are you in? Which key was made (Valet, Master?). With this info. maybe I can find out some information for you?

Thanks!

Patti

hutch7 · March 2001

My '97 OB is/has been a great car. My dealer however is horrible on service/repair. I recieved a coupon for an oil change several months ago, and as challenge actually went out in my driveway and completed the oil change while on hold trying to make an appointment!! The local Ford dealership puts Subaru to shame. Good thing nothing ever breaks on their cars!

ateixeira · March 2001

Anibal: often a dealership only sells Subarus on the side. Try to find one where Subaru is the primary make, or at least they have dedicated service staff that works only on Subaru cars.

Colin: we all saw that coming! Though I'll admit every Trooper owner I've met seems to be happy with it.

That's it, hutch. No experience. ;-)

-juice

kens · March 2001

Mike,

OT question for you on the Trooper. I noticed that when I turned on TOD, the steering wheel seemed to firm up a bit. I thought that this was due to some of the torque being transfered forward. Is this similar to what you experience? What's the gas milage penatly for leaving TOD on?

Also, I noticed that with TOD on, the graphic display always showed some torque going to the front wheels (the bottom 1/3 lights on the front tires). The manual seems to indicate that the default is 0% to the fronts. What's going on?

It's kind of cool to be able to try out a completely different vehicle. I've gotta learn to take those corners slowly. ;-)

Ken

paisan · March 2001

In TOD above a stop, you get 15%/85% torque split, basically opposite of what you get on a 4EAT Subie. The manul states 0% but they are incorrect, I think it's cause at a stop 0% goes to the front axle, but as soon as you move power is in fact going to the front. On heavy acceleration I usually get a full 50/50, on acceleration from say 50-90, I've gotten as much as 40%F torque. The steering tightens up due to the torque going to the front axle. In TOD @ 77mph on the highway, I usually get 16mpg, city 12-14mpg depending on my driving (probably 10mpg @ the Philly auto show) On the highway if I bring it down to 60-65mph, I get 19-20mpg. TOD hits you 1mpg total.

-mike

anibalb · March 2001

Patti,

I am the one that needs the explanation. I have no idea what a carting tax is. I had the master key made. I am in Bay Area of CA. I think it is absurd!

Juice, this is a main Subaru Dealer. They are the only ones near by. I ended up calling the guy in service and he told wife to back. He took a look and ordered the part. I think they could tell I was getting annoyed! The salesman would not sell me the car any cheaper and gave me a hard time. So now anything that goes wrong or malfunctions I will make a fuss. It is only fair I suppose.

Patti let me know what you find. Thanks

anibalb · March 2001

Hey,

There is the flag. What diversity we got going here!

originalbitman · March 2001

Which one? There are 6 that I know of.

bit

anibalb · March 2001

Patti,

The Dealer is called Diablo Mazda/Subaru in Walnut Creek!!!

hammersley · March 2001

Hey, Patti! Thanks for filling in the blanks on the alternator service. You just drop right in here & rant any time you like... I indeed appreciate your being here. We rant at you often enough - it's only fair we should return the favor as you need it!

MY WHEELS CAME IN! And they look mahhhhhvelous! Wish I could show 'em off in the photo gallery, but I don't have a digicam. Just go to http://www.americanracing.com & find the type 335 "Crossfire" wheels, and picture them on a red 97 OBW. Worth the wait!

Cheers!
Paul

seamus3 · March 2001

i wrote this message about 75 posts ago and never got an answer. it still a problem.

i recently had my timing belt changed along with the serpentine belts, thermostat, water pump, and other small stuff. i was assuming that with the belt changes my car would idle a little more smooth, it's not, it still idles pretty rough. my guess would be spark plugs. if so what do i change with it? is this a fairly easy thing to do on my own. ( i have a 96 legacy 2.2L)

ateixeira · March 2001

What size, Paul? 15"x7"? Also, what size/type tires?

seamus: I use Bosch Platinum plugs, the regular ones (they are about $1.80 each). Depending on your engine, you may need to remove the intake and windshield washer container to access the plugs.

Most ratchet sets come with a spark plug tool, but they can be bought separately. Careful not to over-torque it, and you could even use some anti-sieze compound on the threads before putting them in.

-juice

leomort · March 2001

Since Subarus are AWD, do you have to rotate the tires? Do all four tires have to be replaced at the same time? The Forester S has 16" tires, P235, while the L has 15" tires P205. How much $$$ do this tires run?

Leo

paisan · March 2001

Yes you need to rotate, since the front wheels turn if you never rotate, your fronts will be worn out far quicker w/o rotation. My guess is that you can get tires from $60-$200 each depending on quality of tire.

-mike

kens · March 2001

Leo,

Tires are rotated to extend the treadlife. For example, your front tires will tend to wear faster than your rear tires (assuming they're all the same brand) due to the fact that the front tires turn. All tires, regardless of the drivetrain configuration (AWD, FWD, RWD)of the vehicle, will benefit from rotation.

With AWD, there's one other caveat -- tire diameter. Since AWD vehicles often have automatic systems that detect slippage, it makes sense to try and keep even wear between all four tires. Imagine an extreme case if your front tires were severely worn while the rears were brand new. The difference in diameter may lead the AWD system to think the front tires were spinning and continuously send power to the rear tires. In this example, you could place increased wear and tear on the drivetrain.

Ken

ateixeira · March 2001

Leo: I rotate F<>R and R<>F, and yes, replaced all four at the same time.

The L carries 205/70R15s. The S actualy has 215/60R16, not 235s. Those would rub.

You can get tire prices from TireRack.com. They are not particularly expensive - $60 to $80 each for many of them.

-juice

leomort · March 2001

Paison, Kens, juice:

Thank you all for the info regarding tires. Just inquiring to get a feel what additional maintenence is need for AWD Subarus since I never owned one. An additional advice on maintence regarding AWD Subarus that I need to know? ie differential fluid change interviews, etc?

Thanks,

Leo

ateixeira · March 2001

The AWD system is sealed and maintenance-free. You'll be surprised at how little extra service there is. Almost nothing.

-juice

stevek · March 2001

Where is the PCV valve? I have a 2001 Legacy GT sedan and do not see it. Is it inside the vacume hose going to both head covers? Do I have one or two of these?

anibalb · March 2001

Folks,

I looked at the receipt for the key and there is a charge labeled as Ign. charge for 4.95. The total for a key that was made for me is 21.95. Anyone know what that charge is. It really bothers me to think that the dealer is taking advantage of me. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

originalbitman · March 2001

How about writing a letter to your dealer and include a copy of your receipt and ask for an explanation of each line item? That way you will know what Carting Tax , Ign. Charge and all the rest means. We could guess at what they mean but the dealer is more likely to know since they charged you for it. An added bonus is you will get all of the answers at one time and can share them with us. Also, if you have set up your MySubaru site at Subaru.com you can email your dealer directly from there.
bit

anibalb · March 2001

Bitman,

I just called Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City. They charge 11 dollars for cutting a master key. I asked about the ign. charge and he said he had no idea what that was. He charges 11 and I paid 22. Gees that is 100% increase. If this is what they do with cutting a key I can imagine what they will do with other service. I am really upset. When wife goes there Thursday to have that woodgrain replaced she will talk to the guy who cut the key. It is so sad that they do that! A bit upsetting.

However, I looked at Carlsen's web page and their Subies are priced very high. Perhaps slightly higher than the dealer in Walnut Creek. I presume it is just because it is in the Bay Area!

anibalb · March 2001

Folks,

When Rotating tires on Subies, do you guys criss cross them. Lft rear becomes right front???? Or do you just do f-r r-f on same side? Just curious. Rotate every 6K miles or so? Thanks!

ateixeira · March 2001

Steve: follow the spark plug wires to the top of the engine. Where they meet, look to just behind and you'll see the PCV valve.

My web site is down because homepage.com went out of business, but I'm trying to get my photos up to Photopoint. It's slow and tedious, though.

-juice

originalbitman · March 2001

With 6 dealers (at least) in the Bay Area why do you torture yourself by going back to the one you feel so negative about? Ron Price in SSF is less than 15 miles form Carlsen. Carlsen's prices compare very favorably with the other dealers. You can easily buy a car from them for 2.5 percent or less over invoice... perhaps a lot less right now. But the bottom line is with so many dealer within a 30 mile radius why suffer with one you hate. It makes no difference where you get the service even if it is not the dealer you bought from. You can still develop a good relationship with a service department elsewhere.

bit

originalbitman · March 2001

Your manual says every 7500 miles and front to back. More frequent rotation wouldn't hurt of course.

bit

jackleung · March 2001

By the time I buy my S+ 3 months ago, I never care what price they wrote on the web, just sent email quote to ALL dealership around (For me, I get reply from SSF, Livemore, Santa Cruz. The only 2 I didn't get reply to was Carlsen coz their webpage was down at that time and StevenCreek didn't even reply to me). Then use their emails as a weapon, just stay at home and watch the dealerships to fight w/ themselves for what lowest price they can give. At the end, Charles (I love his instant email response and no hassle maner) at SSF Ron Price gave me $350 over invoice which I think is resonable at that time. I believe U can get lower than that since the fall of the stock market.

(hee hee, isn't my flag cool?)

Rgds
Jack

anibalb · March 2001

Bitman,

I realize what you are saying. When I wanted to buy my car I looked in the yellow pages and all I found was the dealer in Walnut Creek. I just found that there is a Dealer in Oakland. Someone mentioned it in a post a while back. It is too bad I only found these posts after I bought my car and not before. But I look at it as a learning experience. Afterall it is the first new car I buy. I will be a lot smarter when I get the next one. Maybe in 4 years I will look to get a new one. Thanks for the advice Bitman.

Folks, how do you calculate depreciation on your Subies? I am wondering what my outback will be worth in 2005, when I am sure I will want the new one. Any ideas?

leomort · March 2001

When looking at the Foresters(looking at the automatic transmission), one of the differences between the L and S trim was the S trim had limit-slip rear differential. How does this work and how is it different than the L model.

second question on the S model regarding rear disc brakes. how much better are they than the rear drum brakes in the L trim?

Leo

ateixeira · March 2001

In 5 years, your Outback ought to hold roughly half its value. That's about a good a guess as any - there are too many factors for an accurate forecast that far into the future.

Leo: the L has an open rear diffy, while the S has a viscous limited-slip diffy. If one rear wheel slips, the diffy locks and send the power to the other wheel with traction. The S will have better traction in situations where one rear wheel has no grip (ice, for example).

Having said that, my L performs just fine in snow even withouth it.

Disc brakes are more linear and resist fade better than drums. Even though the fronts do the bulk of the work, since weight transfers forward during braking, the rear discs helped the S obtain the best stopping distances ever for a small SUV by C&D. I'm sure the 60 series tires also help.

If you can afford it, spring for the S. I have the L, but sometimes I wish I had the S for all the extras (especially the heated seats).

-juice

russ9406 · March 2001

I just did a once over and have discovered a few paint chips, picked up over the winter. Now that the weather is getting warmer here on Long Island, I was planning to do some touch up.

I have the small bottle of Subaru paint.

Please advise on best methods to do a good job?

Is the paint clear coat?

What type of Paint thinner to use? (paint in bottle seems thick)

Best method for prep?

What to use to remove wax?

Other suggestions?

Thanks
Russ

pattim3 · March 2001

I think your dealer will be calling you about the key charge. Hang in there for a bit, please.

Patti

pattim3 · March 2001

We recommend a variance of not more than 1/4 inch in the tire diameter. The easiest way that I've heard to check this is to:

1. Check all tire pressures to make sure they are even

2. Use a piece of string to measure the actual diameter as close to center as you can. Do all four tires and you'll see if which, if not all you need to change.

Oh, how techie of me, huh?

Patti

bluesubie · March 2001

Thanks for the tire tip, Patti!

Dennis

anibalb · March 2001

Patti,

What do you mean by your post saying the dealer will be calling me? Also, do you work for Subaru Patti? Sometimes it seems you do. Thanks.

paisan · March 2001

Patti is a subaru rep for SOA in NJ. When she calls a dealer they listen to her!

-mike

logger2 · March 2001

Hey, I ve gone throught the whole complaints process here in Canada with my forester with no luck. They dont want to have anything to do with me. As far as they are concerned the issues i raised are my problems. Is there anything else i can do on your end? Does subaru usa have anything to do with the canadian counterparts. Im just frustrated that they wont do a thing under the circumstances. Thanks a lot

Jason

paisan · March 2001

From what I recall your car was a used one, so a lot of stuff that subaru would normally be inclined to do probably aren't possible since God only knows what kind of damage could have been done by the 1st owner. It's a shame they haven't done anything good, but I can understand their side of the story sorta. Maybe patti can help.

-mike

hammersley · March 2001

Juice: 15x7, Michelin X-one, 205/70. Too much tread on 'em to waste, but they sure are noisy! A wee bit wider stance, thus I'm interacting with the edges of the road grooves rather than the centers. Makes the steering a bit busier, but nothing spectacular.

Rotation: I rotate every spring, front to rear. Since I only put about 10k miles/year & have 2 sets of tires, seems to work well. My snows are directional, so they have to stay on the same side of the car. Just to be consistent, I do the summer tires the same way.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira · March 2001

Wider rims are always a good thing. Sounds good.

Russ: I just clean with my regular car wash detergent, dry thoroughly, and apply straight out of the bottle, nice and steady.

Most of the paints are metallic. To get a new clear coat on, you'd really have to repaint the entire panel.

-juice

snizave · March 2001

Well, guys, the clutch went out on my car. I was driving home for some R&R over spring break, and barely got out of town when the clutch just totally went out on my 92 legacy. After much discussion with my dad and uncle, we came to the conclusion that the fingers went through on the clutch. I'm still not totally sure exactly what that means, but they seemed to know what they were talking about. Sure enough, the shop said I'd need a new clutch, and of course they noticed some other problems. They said the boots needed replaced. This sounded reasonable since the car does have close to 90k and i've only had it the past 8,000 miles, so who knows what went on before that. The shop said the clutch cost $280, and the boots were $100 each. With $200 labor and tax, the total was around 750. Does that sound reasonable? I think so, but i want to make sure i'm not being totally ripped off. Thanks everyone for making this place an awesome resource!

P.S.- Patti, could you convince SOA to pay for the repairs?

I don't really have any money right now, but someday I will and i will buy many subarus with it. Tell them it would be a great investment in today's impoverished students

Just kidding, but i do want to once again let you know how awesome you are and we all appreciate you!

paisan · March 2001

I paid $400 for front boots and axles, so IMHO that's pretty cheap. I think I'm starting to have tranny problems on my '88 which I'm not looking forward to

-mike

locke2c · March 2001

That does sound like a pretty fair price for everything. By the way, what your dad & uncle are referring to is the fingers on the pressure plate (also referred to as the clutch cover diaphragm).

Left, pressure plate. Right, clutch disc.
See the middle of the pressure plate? There's the fingers. Basically this is the equivalent of a spring going flat.

-Colin

miksmi · March 2001

Colin, thanks for the photos and explanation.

snizave, on a 91 Legacy (and perhaps your 92), there are two CV boots on the right transaxle. The incremental cost of replacing both over just one was marginal so I replaced both (slightly more for 2 boots + transaxle, labor similar). I'd inspect the other boots and replace them if they're marginal (if you're keeping the car for a while).

BTW is your 92 FWD or AWD? My 91 was a FWD.

Those rates are reasonable for Washington, DC and a bargain if a dealer's doing the work.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for expressing appreciation for the fine folks here.

..Mike

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