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Lookout Ford, Dodge, Chevy: Here comes T150
Motormouth
Member Posts: 99
in General
Toyota is aiming directly at the Ford F150 market
with its new T150 which will be a V-8 driven
full-sized truck.
I don't know how soon the details will be
available on this, but I just saw a picture of it
in an auto mag, and it looks pretty nice. No price
was given, but look for it to hit the shores for
the 1999 model year. I'll pass along more details
as I come across them... if anyone else has an info
source, please feel free to share them with us.
Thanks.
Motormouth
with its new T150 which will be a V-8 driven
full-sized truck.
I don't know how soon the details will be
available on this, but I just saw a picture of it
in an auto mag, and it looks pretty nice. No price
was given, but look for it to hit the shores for
the 1999 model year. I'll pass along more details
as I come across them... if anyone else has an info
source, please feel free to share them with us.
Thanks.
Motormouth
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When Toyota *really* wants to join the full-size arena, they will make something a little more versatile than a 5%-larger Dakota. And even then, a V8 Dakota will smoke this thing.
You kind of lost me on this one. Would you mind sharing with us the actual CA dimensions of the various vehicles, and indicate what the "good" and "bad" dimensions are and where the cross-over point is between the two. I usually use a trailer for heavy stuff like crushed stone, etc., but I have occasionally hauled a bed full of oak logs, and I always thought the general idea was to try to center the load over the rear axle so the front axle didn't get too much.
The standard engine will be the V-6, with the 4.7L V-8 available as an upgrade. This is the same engine currently in the LandCruiser, but it will be torqued differently. I think the magazine said it was rated at 270hp.
Incidently, one of the magazines that has a picture of it is Car & Driver's May issue.
Toyota admits it missed the mark with the T100. However, Toyota doesn't often miss the mark, and when they do, they usually come back with a bang, and this one looks like it could be just that.
Incidently, the truck will be manufactured here in the U.S. at their new plant in (I think) Indiana.
They expect to be ready to start shipping them around this time next year.
If I were Ford, I'd take notice or else, at this time next year, they could be holding their stomachs and saying "Ohh... what a feeling!"
Toyota has more followers than you would imagine. I know a few disgruntled Chevy and Ford owners who went with smaller toyotas for improved quality. They have their stuff together, and i expect a good truck. I'm not sure about the discussion on the cab to axle ratio. do you really think they've engineered those smaller trucks to haul any kind of load to begin with? i don't.
by the way, it's my experience, the further back the center of gravity of your load, the more likely the vehicle will experience yaw, which is fish-tailing. By putting a heavy load in front of the bed, you still have 80-90% of the load on the back axle since you are only 2 ft from the back axle and 10 to 12 ft from the front. My chevy's have always handled any load, anywhere, but the truck sits best with the load up as far as possible. i have tool box, so that limits me.
I was just completely puzzled by kcram's new (to me) parameter(CA). I never knew there was a problem, so I was trying to find out a little more about it.
Think of the load you place in your pickup bed creating a torque (twisting effect) around the axle. If the load of the truck (and this must count the entire load: cab, passengers, and cargo) is between the axles, the suspensions work together - the torque or twist on the front axle is rearward (looking at the truck from the driver's side, it's clockwise), the torque on the rear axle is forward. The suspensions thus share the load. If you overload the back of the truck (concentrating more of the weight behind the rear axle, the torque on the rear axle is *rearward*, away from the truck - this causes the front axle to unload, or lift, to follow this torque curve. By having a CA dimension that is too short, the majority of bed cargo will end up behind the rear axle causing this undesirable suspension effect.
I realixe that's tough to understand if you never took engineering physics, but it does work in life. Example: think about the overloaded station wagon we have all seen on the highway - back end scraping the ground and its headlights illuminating trees instead of the road. If that same load is in front of the rear axle, the car will still be closer to the ground but LEVEL, because now, the front suspension is sharing the load.
Trailer towing is a different effect because this is more a function of tensile strength and power. You could capably pull two friends in your little red wagon just as you could pull one, but it took more effort, and you could feel the tension in your arms under the heavier load. Didn't have much effect on the weight to your shoes, though. That's why pickup tow ratings are often 1 1/2 to twice their own curb weights.
If I had to consider all the rest of that, I think the load may be fine, but my head would be in danger of exploding! ;-)
Thanks for the detailed (I think) explanation!
Motormouth/reaching for the Excedrin(tm)
Ok-I never really thought about it. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I guess my major in Finance didn't prepare me to well for physics! It's good to know that someone can retain knowledge from college--I know I haven't!
Yes, the 450 and 550 are the next weight progression, but they're not pickups - they're medium duty (class 4 and 5) chassis-cabs, and the average personal-use buyer won't go past the class 3 F350.
lwb
The Mercedes Unimog is imported by a few small firms now, but would cost a lot to bring up to US safety standards (air bags, impact beams, etc.), so it's unlikely that the new DaimlerChrysler AG will bring it here.
Daimler is pulling some fast business deals these days, but I completely missed that one. Does this mean they took over GM as well? Only kidding, I know what you meant.
Please enlighten us why only the big 3 can build "trucks".
Where are the dimensions for the T-150 available. I have ordered a 5sp T-100 4x4 excab because I thought the T-150 was supposed to be larger and the T-100 size was more important to me than the extra doors or the good looks. My Z-71 excab was way too large to go many places off-road. Sounds like I may have had bad info. Have'nt paid for the 100 yet. I would be concerened about the first couple of years production until they get the bugs worked out.Was it the T-100 that was reported to have better performance off-road than the big 3? Who did the tests?
As a matter of fact, a Ford Ranger was at the top of CU's list and check rated; whereas, the Toyota Tacoma was all the way on the bottom.......last place and below Ford, Mazda, Chevy/GMC and Dodge.
I currently have one of those Ford 150s that you seem to detest. But I assure you that I didn't buy it because of some perverted sense of brand loyalty. It's actually my first Ford pickup and only the second Ford product I've ever owned. (I had a Japanese pickup before this one, and other American-made trucks before). I bought it, I think, because I thoroughly researched what was available and selected the F150 as the best I could find, for me anyway.
Well, maybe in a couple of years the T150 will have been proven the best pickup in the world and will have generally displaced all sales of American pickups, Ford, GM and Dodge will be down to about 100,000 pickups a year, and Toyota will have all the rest (maybe a couple of million). But I really doubt it, even if there is a lot of bias against American-made vehicles here on this Edmunds web page.
I agree that alot of people make decisions based on incredulous reasons that have no rationality. There is also alot of people that make decisions based on true needs and Ford accomadates them. Just because someone buys one of the Big 3 doesn't imply that they are "biased" against foreign products.
I should know. I own both.
TOYOTA WILL CHANGE NAME OF NEW PICKUP
Toyota said it agreed to change the name of its new full-sized pickup truck, the Toyota T-150, at the request of Ford, according to a Bloomberg report.
Ford had complained the name was similar to its F-150 brand pickup truck, the top-selling vehicle in the U.S.
Toyota says it hasn't chosen a new name for its pickup truck, which will go on sale in April 1999. Toyota will choose an actual name, like its
Tacoma pickup, rather than an alphanumeric designation, said Joe Tetherow, a spokesman for Toyota.
Toyota expects its new pickup -- which will have a 4.7-liter V-8 engine that produces 230 horsepower -- to triple its truck sales.
Production of the new pickup begins this fall at Toyota's new truck plant in Princeton, Indiana. The T100 was produced in Japan.
I was starting to wonder if Ford and Toyota were going to clash over the name. Toyota loses points on originality. What next? The Texpedition? The Texplorer? The Tranger?
Ford 4.6L OHC V8 - 220
Chrys 4.7L OHC V8 - 230
GM 4.8L OHV V8 - 255
I think Toyota hit mainstream instead of raising the benchmark. Add in the fact that you will then be able to move up to a Ford 5.4, a Chrysler 5.5 (in 2000), and a GM 5.3 in the half-ton class, and Toyota still falls back.
Compund the problem with model count:
Toyota
- reg cab, long bed
- ext cab, short bed
all US
- reg cab, short and long bed
- ext cab, short and long bed
Ford and GM also offer stepsides on all short beds
Toyota will be more competitive now than with the T100, but they still fall short and should be aiming at the Dakota (which is a lot more comparable)
If the T-150 is successful, Toyota will probably expand their selection. They are probably just getting their feet wet to see if they are able to compete in this market. If they aren't successful, they can either be satisfied with a small production levels and set up their assembly lines accordingly, or they can bail completely without having committed the capital necessary to jump full tilt into the full size truck market.
4.7L 1998 Land Cruiser V8
Four doors with four exterior door handles
To be built in an all-new plant in Indiana
The picture of the interior shows front and rear seat head rests.
I talked to an auto wrecker today who specializes in salvaging interiors from wrecked pickups. I asked if he had seen wrecked pickups with no rear seat head rests where the rear seat occupants heads had actually gone through the rear glass. He told me he sees it often!
Looks like Chevy, GMC and the new Toyota T150 are the only pickups with rear seat head rests as standard equipment. Anyone know the name of a company who sells quality rear seat headrests for Ford and Dodge ext. cab pickups?
Toyota is planning for only about 120,000 full-size pickups at the Indiana plant. There's no way they're going after Ford, GM or Dodge in the numbers game.
I'll bet the next-generation 4Runner will be built in the same plant. While Toyota's no doubt making a killing in profits with the devalued yen, and with 4Runner prices still up there, they get market stability out of it - and also the right to build a 2-door version exempt from the 25% tariff Detroit forced on the Japanese SUVs.
I talked in topic 204 about headrests for your family. The local Ford dealer said that any dealer should be able to help you out. Check it out and let me know how it went.
More than likely most of you are like me. On weekends you make the Home Depot run to do some repairs around the house.
I'm sure there are people in this forum that a Toyota will not meet their needs because they do haul heavy equipment...but the rest of you????
I'm out...........jd
Why? Why can't guys talk about towing? The only thing I tow is an air compressor and a motorcycle trailer. Am I insane to talk about towing?
I also own 15 trucks with my roofing firm which leads to discussions of payload,engines, accessories, gas mileage, truck quality, suspension, trannys, prices, and valuable comparisons.
If you took any notice before your ranting, you would see that there are actually FEW topics of towing. Alot are about compact trucks as well. As there should be. If you are not interested in towing, then don't click on to the subjects. There is probably about 30 guys who regularly talk about towing here. 30. Not many when considering how many hit Edmund's Town Hall.
Toyota makes fine trucks--which is never really disputed here. They just don't have the choices yet--that's all. Calm down.
3 of my friends have bought Toyo trucks, and all 3 have ended up dumping them for one reason or another. (1 head gasket went, and destroyed the engine block, toyota offered to replace the engine block, his response to that was "No thanks, I'd rather buy a truck that *DIDN'T* need anything replaced"), another blew the gasket, but had it replaced, then the rear axle on his tacoma broke, so he traded it in for a Ranger. The third just got a complete Lemon, and actually got to invoke the colorado lemon law to force toyota to buy his T-100 back, then he got a Dodge Durango.
Toyota makes great cars. But their trucks leave much to be desired, reliability wise, power wise, and cargo capacity wise.
I don't know about the other two, but the head gasket makes me laugh. Anyone who knows anything about engines knows that head gasket problems correlate to the driver. How old is your friend? He probably was racing the engine everytime he drove it. Big deal. Replace it and drive.
I know too much about engines to be fazed by a "head gasket" problem. Tell your buddy to cool it.