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The 5 series is expensive and unless you opt for the 8 underpowered compared to a lot of cars on the road that go for less. That said, I never considered anything else and I certainly don't regret the choice. I've wanted a 5 series for 15 years (divorce and then horrible career move got in the way), and unlike most things that come with high expectations this choice did not disappoint.
so id suggest you make some more bargains or shop to another dealership, trust me theyre just trying to rip you off.
as for the new A6, id have to say yeah theyre pretty expensive since theyre practically all new model this year.
2005 530i lease, 36 month 15k/year
Msrp: $51,720 Invoice: $47,345
vehicle details: jet black, gray leather, premium, navigation, steptronic, cold weather.
Residual at 60%.
$2242.60 TOOP ($700 security, $695 acquisition, $747.60 first month,$100 for tag)
$747.60/month, tax included.
I think I bargained for a great deal with cap cost at $49,000. Does anyone have any comments or insights?
I don't doubt in a small Bimmer dealership they're not going to cut and run on every 545i ... but the reality is, most are leased and most are sold for a far smaller profit then the E39's, plus your numbers are a little skewed because BMW based it on a 15 month year .. the problem is the design and the idrive - the new "7's" sat and sat for months and dealers were stuck holding the bag without any incentive or rebate support and thats because of the false pride at BMW, besides the dealers were taking the beating, not the factory ....
On the new "5's" they are not moving, idrive and a different body style that the market is trying to adapt to .. so they have had a lease support from day 1, "and" a little trunk money for the dealer support, so they are *buying* the market .. even the resale value is weak on the new "5's", dealers are snatching up the clean low mile 03's faster than they can get em', whats that tell you .... I'm not knocking em', I like em', but BMW has some serious design problems for the market and most dealers are sitting on pins and needles - you should be able to purchase any new Bimmer come winter for in and around $1,000/$1,500ish over invoice ...
Terry.
The sales tax however i kissed to god. LOL
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Terry.
rroyce10 is right, don't bother to try to sell HIM on the virtues of a 5-series. He's got such impeccible taste that he lists a GM as his first car over a Mercedes as his second. What does that tell you?
As for a 545i being a $70k car?? I priced out a 2005 545i 6-speed for ED at $1,500 over the ED invoice, which is the offer I have from 2 BMW dealerships. Equiped to my specs (sport package, navigation, premium sound, cold weather, rear air bags) it comes out to an MSRP of $64,605, a US invoice of $59,025 and, according to both dealers, my discounted ED price would be approximately $56,800. This actually works out to $2,200 under the US invoice. However, I'd have to go through a lot of work and the expense of a trip to Europe to get that price. At the present time, it's not worth it.
I must admit that the MSRP for a fully loaded 2004/5 545i 6-speed seems excessive, given the outgoing M5 was "only" about 10% more. And, no matter how good the new 545i is, it's no M5, IMO.
$30,100..
I told him if the car checks out, with no previous accident history.. he got a steal.
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$30,100 and 6k.?!? .. dealers are paying $31,0++ ..... sniff sniff, I smell something cookin', why would someone or even a dealer sell something for $1,000 less than they can get at the auction, you have to watch those ebay deals .. usually when a price is too good, etc etc ........
Terry.
The only thing I could see holding it back was having a manual transmission without the sport package.. Usually, they tie those two options together pretty often.
Its funny.. you told me the same thing on my car back in December... that it went $3K cheaper than the others at the auction.. I looked at it myself (like that would help), and it looked perfect... But, sure enough..six months later, it shows up on the BMW vehicle history report.. $4K damage... All fenders and doors on the right side replaced..
I did save about that much.. and hopefully I'll have mine long enough to mitigate the loss on re-sale... It still looks perfect to the average stooge (like me).
We'll see.. his auction just closed on Friday.. I talked to him Saturday, and he was going to call the guy that day.. I don't even know for sure if he'll go through with it right now... I'll report back, once I know.
regards,
kyfdx
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The US MSRP of the car I specified is $64,605. Assuming I got a similar deal as you - $2,700 off - I would be paying $61,905. My negotiated ED price (about $1,400 over ED invoice) is $56,800. That's a $5,100 savings. If I want to make a one week family trip out of it, I'll lose half to three quarters of that. But if I want to hop on a plane go over, tap the car on the hood, and come back, I'm about $4,000 ahead.
I guess I just haven't warmed up to the 545i being a $65k car just yet. A little over a year ago, one of my business associates picked up a brand new 2003 540i 6-speed for $49,500. BMW had some healthy incentives on the 5-series. At that time, the 540i was a much better deal than the E430/E500. Now they are both overpriced in my opinion, although what is the alternative for a midlle age guy like me with a wife and 2 kids who doesn't know how to drive an automatic? My TL 6-speed is fine for now, but there isn't much above it in performance or luxury that meets my needs other than the 545i 6-speed.
Thanks,
BPB
Hosts don't necessarily have more insight into your best deal than other members do. We've got the same tools available, including the TMV tool. You're generally more likely to get great advice from others who've been shopping for the same vehicle.
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regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks,
BPB41
Did they break down how much was payment and how much was tax? I think you can get a better deal now..
Or, just call your CA and ask him if the rates are better for November, and that if they are, you want the lower rate.. when is your car due to come in?
regards,
kyfdx
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Good luck!!
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Having said that, I came across an '04 525 left over with stick shift, premium, sport package, zenons and maybe something else that I like. What is it worth as of mid-November? The '05s are already on the ground and since this doesn't qualify for the Section 179 6000 pound GVW write off I have time to order an '05 and defer the expenditure (always a good move) for a month or two. If I were to do so I wouldn't change the options though. We would probably keep the car for 10 years (the zenons will come in handy on my way to a 50 year Vietnam Veterans reunion in 2015).
One bargaining chip I was going to use is that it is now winter in New England and the 17" (remember this is a 525 sport) wheels and tires aren't going to work. Perhaps they could throw in a set of take-off wheels for me to mount some Blizzaks? The problem is that BMW values their alloys about three times the market price, so even if I got them to throw in a set of winter wheels they might "value" it as a $2000 concession.
Any ideas as to where I should end up price wise in relation to invoice?? Is the stick a plus or a negative? (I love the stick; nothing I've ever drove for the last 45 years shifts as easily.)
So, to the dealer, it is worth at least invoice.. You would have to decide if it is worth that much to you. If you think you might "bail out of it" in a short period, then it probably isn't worth it.
2) Since it has the Sport Pkg, and the smaller engine, I would rather have the stick.. Almost any dealer you would trade it to will think otherwise.. I doubt you would have too much trouble selling it yourself with those options though.. small engine, stick, sport package all kind of go together.. If you like the stick, then that is what really matters.
3) BMW factory wheels are obscenely expensive.. $350/each at the cheapest. If you can get the dealer to throw in a set (even a used set), then that would indeed be a great deal.
Tirerack has some decent aftermarket wheels for around $100-$150... or you could scour forum classifieds for some used factory wheels.. A lot of people upgrade shortly after buying their cars new (think California), and prices are usually about half of new.
4) Any possible finance incentives on the '04, like lower interest rates? If so, that might be an extra savings..
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6K miles, 5-speed, premium, xenons, stereo upgrade, PDC, etc.. Silver w/black leather..
$30,450 total.. plus taxes when he registers it.
Neither he or I are experts, but the car sure looks new, and he said no problems coming home.. It was a BMWNA car... employee lease.. In-serive date of September, '03
Unless something "comes up" later, I think he got a really good deal.. and I'm jealous. I want a stickshift....
regards,
kyfdx
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However, I did resurrect an offer I received on a brand new 2003 530i 5 speed, sport, premium, xenons, etc. in August 2003 for $38,900. There was a $4,000 factory to dealer cash incentive and the dealership was selling it at invoice minus $4,000 +/-. I didn't go for it primarily because I didn't want to sell my Honda S2000 "fun car" at the time.
The only thing that sounds a little suspiscious with your friend's deal is only 6,000 miles in 14 months (430 miles per month). I put over 600 miles per month over a span of 30 months on our S2000 as a third car. I would hope that BMWNA would be honest about the car's history, and that it wasn't out of commission for an extended period due to an accident or major mechanical issue.
What keeps the E39's rockin' is the "lack" of interest in the E60's ... at the time, they were probably the "best buy" of the year with all of the incentives on the last remaining models of the 03's ..... the funny part is, the 04's are only doing around $5,000 more than the 03's comparably equipped, thats got to tell you something .........
You bud could probably sell it and still make $5,0/$6,000 even with the handshaker .....
Terry.
As far as the mileage.. Of course, any number of things could happen to cause that.. BMWNA employee leases are generally for 1 year or 10K miles, whichever comes first.. They are dirt cheap (the employee leases, that is).. so, if he had a short commute..etc, etc..
As far as BMWNA? They announce previous damage at the auction.. but, they keep it off the vehicle history report for six months.. Gee, I wonder why that is? I found that out the hard way..
And yes.. They had killer deals on the 530i last fall.. But, again as Terry says.. that doesn't translate into lower prices now.. This example is a really rare occurrence... usually, one follows the other.. It kind of makes me wish I had bought one last year... but I was stretching the budget for the 325i.
But, he won't be selling right away for a profit.. He has an '03 Lexus ES300 to sell.. He is happy as a clam with his new 5-speed BMW.
So, Terry.. '03 Lexus ES300 with 23K miles.. Gold with tan guts.. Everything original.. no runs, no hits, no errors.. What is it worth in a private party sale? Cincinnati market.
regards,
kyfdx
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I wouldn’t worry about mileage. Plenty of people don’t drive much. A guy at work has a 330 and his daily commute is 6 miles. That comes to ~1500 per year plus his weekend usage puts his total at around 5K per year. Lots of Porsche owners do between 4K and 6K per year... Ferrari watch-your-money-go-up-in-smoke syndrome. Less common with bimmers. I think BMW owners have more wanderlust.
“ the dealership was selling it [2003 530i] at invoice minus $4,000 +/-.”
Habitat1 that would have taken the blue ribbon around here. I recall the best deal reported in this thread last year was around $3500 under invoice plus 4$K incentive. We always remember the ones that got away. I will never forget the opportunity I had for an 01 M5 last year 2500 miles, $57K. Could have driven it for a year and turned it around for the same price. I even had the guys deposit check made out. Instead, the two-seat drop-top beckoned.
Will be interesting to see how the E46s price out in the coming year, if they will approximate E39 deals last year. Also it will be interesting to see prices of outgoing BMW models as affected by the new engines.
No PPI.. called the guy a week ago, asked a few questions, flew up on Friday, did the paperwork and drove it home..
The only negatives on the car that might drop the price a little.... stickshift without sport package... and, no heated seats.. Cosmetically, what you would expect from a car with only 6K miles.. just about perfect.. couple of very small parking lot dings on rear bumper, the kind you wouldn't see unless they were pointed out to you..
I'd say that as cheap as he got it.. even if he finds issues later, he is in pretty good shape... he already has 700 miles driving it, and is very happy with it. (and I know he's being straight about the price, I saw the completed auction on ebay).
regards,
kyfdx
(sometimes dreams do come true)
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Did I misspeak? The deal I was offered was approximately $4,000 under invoice, including the $4k incentive. If you could have got a 530i for $3,500 under invoice, plus a $4k incentive (i.e. $7,500 under invoice), you really blew a good deal.
As far as your used car values go, I think they are being very generous, at best. In the DC area, 2003 530i's go for way less than $37-41k. More like $32-35k, if you look around. And a 2001 M5 for $57k is a good deal (even a year ago as a three year old car)? The fact that the M5 is perhaps the ultimate sedan on the road doesn't mean it's easy to find someone to get infatuated with the idea of paying $57k for a three year old used car. Perhaps I'm a new car snob, but $73k for a brand new one sounds like a far better deal than $57k for a three year old one, suspisciously low mileage notwithstanding.
Terry.
Sounds like the mid/tall $23's, maybe the low low $24's if everything goes his way on the trade side, not much help from the color or the miles ... might see $26ish after all the smoke clears down Retail Rd .. it's funny, but like the "old 5" Bimmer body, the ES is going thru the same thing .. clean low miler "02's" will do "almost" what the new body will do ..... whats that tell ya.?
Terry.
I stand corrected on the including/plus slip. By my original point was that $38.9K at $4000 under invoice was at the extreme end of good deals last year in this thread.
“The fact that the M5 is perhaps the ultimate sedan on the road doesn't mean it's easy to find someone to get infatuated with the idea of paying $57k for a three year old used car. Perhaps I'm a new car snob, but $73k for a brand new one sounds like a far better deal than $57k for a three year old one, suspisciously low mileage notwithstanding.”
It was two years old when I saw it. And it was bought the same week I turned it down. I saw others go just as quickly for a lot more. For someone who heaps praise on the M5 I find it curious how you would classify someone as “infatuated” for buying one with 2500 miles for 17 grand less. I wouldn’t call you a “new car snob”, I’d say you are “infatuated” with new cars. I’m not. And I would take new-545 money and put it on a cream puff E39 M5 any day. Furthermore, that particular car would have turned around with less depreciation in a year’s time. BTW, the low mileage is suspicious to YOU because you know nothing about the car.
"BTW, the low mileage is suspicious to YOU because you know nothing about the car."
I may not know anything about THAT car, but I have been coached by a few well qualified friends and associates that a car that "sits" for extended periods of time is MORE likely to have some mechanical issues than one that is driven regularly. I won't go beyond MY limited technical expertise, but as it was described to me, belts and chains get rigamortis, fluids evaporate and/or solidify, even tires get fatigued from being in one position. And the idea of starting up a car and driving it a few miles once or twice a month is hell on an engine that doesn't really get a chance to warm up. Heck, my Honda S2000 wasn't even fully broken in until it had 5,000+ miles on the odometer. I didn't test it's 9,000 rpm redline until well after 1,500 miles. Call me paranoid, but I'd be willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut (or better yet, $73k to $57k), that my new M5 would get a much better break in routine than that 2,500 mile 2-3 year old used one did. The beauty of the M5 is that it is meant to be driven, not looked at like a fragile piece of art. I'd be much more inclined to buy a 3 year old M5 from someone who appreciated that and driven it (responsibly) for 15,000+ miles than someone who needed a trophy for their garage.
regards,
kyfdx
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1st month: $ 717.54
Security: $ 750.00 (unless you have a current lease with BMW)
Bank Fee: $ 525.00
DMV Fee: $ 261.00
Total: $ 2253.54
What do you think?
If it were me, I'd cash in some frequent flyer miles and get a 545i through European Delivery for $1,200 to $1,500 over invoice. The loaded 545i 6-speed I priced out came in at below your price for a 530i. Not sure about leasing through ED.
The pre-owned.? .. the dealer probably paid in and around the $34ish figure, by the time they do the CPO and a few things it probably hits the table at the $35ish figure and he probably would cut it loose for the $37ish zipcode or less .. it's a handshaker, he won't want that dude in the inventory for any length of time with winter coming ...........
Terry.