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Comments
For some reason I really enjoy driving the car more than I did the X5 that I traded. The word "nimble" comes to mind. I still want to get better tires eventually.
--
I have gotten three kayaks on my Outback at once, a bike and a kayak on once occasion, and a kayak and a canoe on another occasion. No problem at all. Whenever possible, I try to run bow/stern ropes to the front and rear tow hooks as additional insurance. I don't think they are needed with a good rack system, but it's good to have an extra factor of safety.
Most of the time it's me and my one kayak. I find the Outback is an ideal boater car.
I have had kids and adults in the back seat, and never gotten complaints. I can see how it might be tight for big adults, but there is plenty of room for kids and smaller adults. Actually, I am 6'1" 235lb and I spent a couple hours in the back seat of my parent's Outback a couple of Christmas' ago with two other people in the seat. Not really a problem, and I noticed that you get a real cushy ride in the backseat. My parent's have an 00 Outback with the H4 engine and 5-speed, and it had no problems travelling through hills with 5 passengers.
Craig
I still haven't sold my WRX yet, and am toying with swapping the tires and wheels over to the Outback, at least temporarily, to see how it affects handling. Onthe WRX, I have 225-45/WR-17 ultra high performance summer tires on 17x7 wheels with a 50mm offset. Bet that would transform the Outback quite a bit.... only downside is that the summer tires are noisy.
Craig
the wheel width should be stamped on there too.
-Dave
That's what the Outback brochure says.
only downside is that the summer tires are noisy.
And you'll be loosing ground clearance, recording more miles and driving slower than indicated, which may not be bad anyway :-) I'm sure you knew all that anyway.
DaveM
The click sound is somewhat diminished now, but not completely gone. It could be that I just have a noisy solenoid -- something that could be replaced on a future date. The subtle console "rubbing" noise, however seems to have disappeared.
Anyone notice that the GT brake pads seem to generate more dust than previous Subaru models? I don't know if it's the larger rotors, but I do notice that my wheels get dirtier sooner than with my Forester. It's not anywhere near European car brake dust, but noticeably more than before.
On my ride home, there is a long uphill where two lanes merge into one. A Miata was stopped next to me at the bottom of the hill last night and we just happened to start at the same time.
I had my LGT in SPORT mode and gave it a leisurely 1/3 throttle application and started up the hill. Well, the Miata driver somehow thought I was trying to race him up the hill and cut him off because he redlined in first and chirped his tires in 2nd. When I noticed the ruckus next to me, I felt bad and in a act of self-restraint, I backed off the throttle and let him cut in ahead of me. I couldn't help but to chuckle at the thought of what if I went to WOT.
Ken
Check out etrailer.com. They have the hitches for the 05's starting at $140. I picked up a hitch for my 2000 from them, and it works great for the bike rack.
Mark
I got my hitch for my wrx from them. I was surprised Subaru doesn't list one.
Don
I thought the manual tranny used the dual-mass flywheel.
Positive review, though -- especially on the 5EAT.
Ken
I'm not an engineering match for almost everyone - if not everyone - who has addressed this issue. But, I must be missing something here??
Granted, the IIHS test result is disturbing. But, doesn't the Toyota Camry recall, after the good rating from IIHS, suggest SOME caution and raise SOME questions about the test?
And, doesn't the comprative excellence of the Subarau in the NCAP tests count for anything??!! The Subaru outperformed EVERY car tested/listed by the Austalian NCAP. With 5 Stars, it surpassed these vehicles (all with dual front, side and head bags): Mercedees M class, Range Rover, Audi A4, BMW 3 class, Honda Accord Euro, Mazda 6, Passat and the Volvo S80. It also scored higher, in aggregate, than other 5 Star rated: Volvo S40 (2004), Volvo XC 90 and BMW X5. That is, scored higher in the same tests!! In most cases, the differences were in the front offset crashes. Should we be concerned about everyone of these cars that performed worse than the Subaru on the same, front/front offset crash tests? Shouldn't all of these vehicles be taken off everyone's lists, too?
Admiitedly, I'm a layperson - a historian by training and an organizer and political activist, by vocation and avocation So, I really am out of my depth on the engineering/science of this. But, I don't think I'm stupid. I AM concerned about the IIHS test and eagerly await tests on the wagons (Legacy and, especially, OB). But, if the Subaru out-scores/performs all of these other vehicles in the SAME tests...seems to me that this is important. The OB at least equalled or surpassed all of the vehicles, listed above, on the NCAP side impact test (which some have dismissed, in comparison to the IIHS test); and, it surpassed ALL of them on the front crash tests!
Seems to me that the TOTAL package re:safety is superior. Since I cannot choose how I'm going to be hit/crash should that ever happen, the NCAP tests, at least, suggest that one would be hard-pressed to find overall/total protection better than the Subaru.
OK, I'm done with this subject.
Peace.
Best thing to do is just find a rather loud, monotonous song (rap would work :-) and play around with each setting. Every album has a different tone quality to start with, depending on what the audio engineers did to the original tunes.
I have to admit am having WAY too much fun with the OB, the iPod, and FM. (Does anyone speak in whole words these days?)
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
That said, my concern is not how well Subaru performs *relative to other vehicles* in tests. My concern is whether the vehicle provides a sufficient level of real world side impact protection. To the extent the Aussie test would indicate that it does, so much the better. To the extent the IIHS test, and, in particular, the remarks of the official quoted above, indicate that the vehicle does not, that *has* to be seen as something of a negative IMO, unless one wants to dismiss a seemingly reputable testing body and its work--regardless of whether there are conflicting reports from elsewhere.
The other issue that I believe is at work here is that Subaru markets on safety--not as much as Volvo perhaps, but to a considerable extent. When a company creates expectations, it also can expect disappointment at the first sign those expectations may not be fulfilled.
1. Nearly 4k miles, and nary a rattle or suspicious noise. Very quiet, comfy, nimble, and I still pinch myself every time I climb in!
2. Brake dust on the wheels is less now, so I am assuming the brakes will soon quit making a mess on my clear car :-)
3. No one yet makes an iPod dock connector for the Subaru-specific audio harness. Keep watching those boards, though, because they can't be far off. Adapters for other models are coming out every day. We've all caught the "Beemer bug".
4. MPG still creeping up. I averaged well over 27mpg on a mostly highway trip across town, about 80 miles round trip. Average mpg for these last 100 miles is up to around 24.3...not bad for mostly city driving. Probably would have been better had I discovered that nail in my left rear tire sooner...
5. Anyone else having problems with your headlights blinding oncoming traffic? I've been flashed several tmes (headlights, that is :-) I am certain folks think I have my brights on. I will have the dealer check those when I go in for another oil change (soon).
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
PS: on a funny side note: last night at a homeowners association meeting (I am a board member), we had a local police officer as a guest speaker talking about block watch, and specifically about watching for car thieves. In his attempt to make up an example, he said "Let's say there's this guy trying to steal a champagne gold SUV"...I had to blurt out loud, "Hey! Wait a minute...that's MY car!" Everyone in the room had a good chuckle out of that.
The VDC model of Outback has almost similar price tag with VW passat v6 GLX w/ 4Motion. How would you guys compare with VW passat?
I live in Calgary, Canada, and wehave tons of snowl, so I need little bit more og fround clearance. So I'm into outback turbo or VDC.
Thanks.
Brian
rsorganize- Im not quite clear on what that sentence means. The recall of the Camry's side impact aibags seems to be incredibly similar in nature to the one that affected 140 early Legacies, and involved improper manufacture/installation. Certainly, the Camry that the IIHS tested with the optional Side Curtain airbags and accompanying seat mounted chest airbags, didnt suffer from any issue.
So what is exactly is the caution/concern that is raised?
The NCAP side impact tests are an incredibly good waste of money. The barrier that strikes the vehicle is closest in profile to an early 80s midsize, is non-deformable, AND NHTSA merits stars in the side impact WITHOUT factoring in Head Injury Criterion (HIC), even though that measure is taken. Basically, anything with a higher center of gravity (minivans, SUVs, p/u) get 5 stars. How is that a valid comparison?
~alpha
"I'm surprised the 2.5i's brakes are bigger than the Outback's, but the point above it valid - if it has enough power to lock the brakes, bigger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade."
-juice
Though this post was sometime ago, I just wanted to respond:
Yes, larger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade. But what about hauling full vehicle loads or towing, then the brake fade becomes much more of an issue when either braking normally or in an emergency. It is a shame that the Outbacks don't have the bigger brakes like the GT given the performance specs for the XT and 3.0 models. What was Subaru thinking when specing these vehicles for brakes that are more upscale, heavier, and just as powerful as the GT?
I also would take issue with the stock tires Subaru has choosen, i.e. Bridgestone Potenzas. Web searches on tire reviews like those on tirerack.com, will show that these tires are not well received by their owners for wear, handling on wet and snow covered surfaces.
These are the only major issues I can come up with (for now) that I'd like Subaru to address in future revisions.
Also, I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my Nissan Sentra 2.5, and I litterally have NO complaints. I actually think they are a great tire for the price, and in 28,000 miles, Ive had no wet handling/braking OR snow issues. The Pirelli P400s on our Camry are better, in fact I think they are the best non-performance tire going, but they are also more expensive.
~alpha
Other variations of the RE-92, like the ones that came on my WRX, have a low TW rating and are not so good in the rain or snow once they wear down. These are probably the RE-92s that people are complaining about. They are OEM tires on numerous vehicles. I probably would not buy these tires.
So, be careful about making blanket statements regarding the RE-92 and the choice of tires on the Outback until you know which specific tire is involved! It's unfortunate that TireRack lumps all the RE-92 comments into one place -- it seems to mislead a lot of people.
Craig
AWD will keep you out of trouble for the most part, especially if driven sensibly in foul weather. Having owned many Subarus and being a skier, I can say that the cars will soldier through some pretty rough winter weather without a sweat.
VDC gives you an extra margin of safety and stability, and I would consider it a great feature in those scenarios where things happen fast and you could potentially get in trouble (accident avoidance, etc..). VDC will detect any sort of yaw or deviation from the intended course, and do whatever it can to keep the car going straight and maintain stability.
If you want the untimate in safety and stability, get the VDC. If you just need a car capable of handling winter weather, any model will suffice.
BTW, different models and transmission combos have different types of AWD systems. They're all good in the snow, but have differences that affect handling and gas mileage on dry roads.
Craig
My overall point about the Australian NCAP test - which you seem to avoid with the reference to the 'waste of money'of the SIDE impact tests - was that Subaru outperformed everyone of those vehicles listed (and others) on the SAME front crash tests. Now, perhaps in comparison to the IIHS tests these, too, are 'an incredible waste of money'; but, the fact remains that there are direct comparisons available across vehicle lines and the Subaru outperforms every vehicle on these front crash tests. Seems significant too me....
So, again: while I AM concerned about the IIHS tests - and hope SoA makes changes on the Legacy sedans and other vehicles if necessary - (1)I would like to see what happens on the side-tests on the wagons, especially the OBs; and (2) why not show some appreciation for the comparative, top-rated performance of Subaru on FRONT crash tests? While there might be some dispute on what the NCAP side impact tets are worth, the NCAP front-crash tests suggest, to me at least, that - comparatively - there is no safer vehicle than the Subaru...in a front/front offset crash.
Peace, my friend.
Point taken. Admittedly, I do not have first hand experience with these tires (look forward to testing their performance with my 05 OB XT however). My assumptions were formed from reviews such as those on tirerack.com, but I have researched/purchased other tires based on reviews from such sites and have pretty much agreed with the majority. And, I was not aware of more than 2 variations of the RE-92. How many are there? Mine are the RE-92A also, so your experience with them gives me some comfort.
Thanks for the reply.
I just happen to have a picture of the RE-92 on my 02 Outback:
Compare these to the 05 tire tread and you can see the difference. The sidewalls are different too, but I don't have a pic of that.
I sold the stock tires and wheels that came with my WRX, otherwise I'd go get a picture of those too!
Craig
The Passat is about to change also, so you'd be buying an 'old model'.
I had stability control in my last 2 cars and never activated it (in a useful situation) I'm sure it's good to have but as long as you're a careful driver you'll probably never use it (if you're not careful it won't save you either). It kicked in on me once while turning into traffic- it cut power causing a dangerous situation where I caused traffic to slow down. I wasn't happy about it. Technology can have it's disadvantages.
Good luck
tom
tom
Would you please tell me the differences among transmission/AWD combinations of Legacy/outback? Or, if you have any link that explains this pretty well, let me know. Since we have more than enough snow here in Calgary, Canada, I am very much interested in Outback. But, fun/exciting driving is also one of major concerns.
Thank you so much.
Brian
In reasonably well-lit areas, this is not a problem, but on dark country roads it can be a real problem.
Bob
Bob
I agree with everything that has been written. Hopefully this will help you out. I've have owned three Legacy GT's and One WRX and I live in MPLS. And we see our fair share of snow in a given year. I have driven my friends cars with some form of VDC and they have driven my cars. When it all came down to it, VDC or VSC is nice to have but AWD (in my opinion) and common sense is the better choice..
Tony T
I never addressed the Australian NCAP ratings in my post. My intention with respect to the US NCAP Side Impact test was to point out the serious deficiencies that exist and I think most would agree that neglecting to include the Head Injury Criterion information in the overall evaluation is a major oversight.
That the Legacy did well in Australian NCAP full frontal impacts is commendable, indeed. I was not debating that at all. You ask the question "why not show some appreciation for the comparative, top-rated performance of Subaru on FRONT crash tests?" Because my post was addressing the topic of areas for improvement of the Legacy/OB lines, as were several posts before mine. If you're at the top of the class in terms of frontal impacts, that does NOT represent an area for improvement. A "Marginal" rating in the IIHS side impact DOES.
For what its worth, your statement that "there is no safer vehicle than the Subaru...in a front/front offset crash" is somewhat incorrect as well, since the Honda Accord achieves a Double Five Star Rating in the US NCAP full frontal test, as well as a "Best Pick" from the IIHS. The Camry comes very close as well, and slots just a hair below the Legacy and Accord in frontal, as it did not get a Double Five from NCAP.
~alpha
Craig
http://www.subaru.com/relay.jsp?sid=SILENG3&did=AWI
If you navigate through this, there is a screen describing the different types of Subaru AWD.
I have had Subarus with continuous AWD (5-spd models), active AWD (4EAT models), and VTD (5EAT models). They have all been great in my experience.
Craig
The test is hardly supposed to make consumers think "buy an SUV or die". Anyone with a reasonable degree of intelligence can see that the test is designed to show the benefits of a strong vehicle safety cage and side impact airbags which include head protection. Really, this is the IIHS forcing mfrs. to design safer cars, exactly what happened with the frontal offset (which was first used widely overseas).
FWIW, no consumer is ever FORCED to buy one product over another by the product's manufacturer.
~alpha
Wanted the 5 speed but got the 4 speed auto 'cause the wife can't drive stick...
With 100 miles on it, so far so good...
Just a thought
tom
buzzct: No problems with blindspots on my Legacy GT wagon so far.
bolbo: Many of us have been complaining about this policy, but like Bob writes, to no avail. I agree it's limiting.
safetyfirst: Like some others wrote, I don't believe the door handle grip is painted -- it's rubberized. I wonder if your dealer remembered to remove the plastic wrap before delivery. Or, maybe you did get a bad door trim. I'm sure the dealer would cover it under the B2B warranty.
Ken
I am looking to purchase in the '06 Model year. My 01 Limited is doing just fine, but would like the added power of the newer engines. My little 4EAT has a hard time merging/ downshifting during my 100 mile highway commute/day. (especially with the A/C on!)
FWIW- I think that I am siding with the VDC over the XT Ltd because of the smoothness of the engines. I would love a 6-speed on the H6 but that does not seem like an option any time soon.
I was under the impression that the 4EAT sent power to individual wheels, but seems that is only the case on the VDC.
I am an avid Consumer Reports reader and they have not broken down the reliability of the H6 over the 4. Any experiences with the H6 that new owners should be warned of?
I was able to mount the crossbars for the rack back far enough that the front one is just over the back of the moonroof. I can even open the hatch with a bike on the roof! Woohoo!
Cheers!
-Ian