2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

mikes. · February 2005

Check your e-mail that you show on this forum.

MikeS.

dna2511 · February 2005

prince812,

I put alot of info in the other posts above. If there is anything in particular about the car I can help with just post it.

ederzawiec · February 2005

How was the headroom in the rear seat? I was concerned in the specs that headroom decreased in the 2005 Avalon. At 6'3", was your head hitting the roof? (At 6'1", there was very little room for me in the 2004 Avalon.)

How was interior material quality?

dna2511 · February 2005

ed,

plenty of room in the back seat. Head room was awesome. I do not like to use that word describing certain things but in this case its ok. Being 6'3 I sat behind the front seat in the complete back position. My knees would not touch the seat in front of me and the flat floor board is a nice touch. There has to be at least 3-5" from the roof to my head. In the recline position it increased to at least 8-10 inches of room. When I read about the recline position I thought it would be like a airplane seat 3" of movement. When I sat back there and reclined, I would guess the range to be 4-6". This will be a great car for someone who carries alot of people with them without going to a crown vic\town car size vehicle. The back seat is a flat bench type seat without that painful hump in the middle. If the back seat room and comfort is important this is the best car I have been in yet. I have been in most of the midsize and upscale sedans out there. They put the Avalon in the large car sections on web sites but i disagree. I consider a large car to be like the town car or roadmaster type

future1 · February 2005

It seems like the new Avalon is somewhat disproportioned in its interior dimensions. For example, compare it to the 2005 Camry:

-- while the Avalon's interior volume is almost 5 cu. ft. more than Camry, the Avalon actually has less front legroom, less front headroom, less rear headroom, and less trunk room than Camry.

-- Avalon does overwhelm Camry in all other interior dimensions, most notably the rear legroom

It's as though you would take the Camry, stretch it in length and width, lower the roof, move the front seat closer to the front, move the back seat backwards (taking some trunk space), and viola, you've got the Avalon!

If you are not convinced, consider this: the Corolla (!) has the same front legroom as Avalon, and more front headroom than Avalon. I'd say it's a little out of balance.

fd1000 · February 2005

Yep, I know the ventilated seats are not acutally delivering AC air, just air from underneath the seat, which is OK with me.

I don't believe that any of the Laser Cruise Control systems available will allow you to use them below a certain speed, like 30 mph. (Of course I could be wrong, but this has been true of the ones I have seen).

I live in a suburb, and my wife and I travel the highway for about 10 mins to get to the larger stores, restaurants, and so on. I can see using the Laser Cruise Control every time we travel on that road.

We also have plenty of 45-55 mph, smaller highway type roads, with stop lights spread out every 2-3 miles. Again, think the LCC would work great on those types of roads.

Also, I think that a person would use LCC more then they think, because they expect to use it in the same circumstances as normal cruise control. Normal cruise control is a pain, if there is moderate slowing and speeding up, so we only tend to use cruise control on wide open highways. But those situations are not a problem for LCC!

I actually drove an Infiniti Q45 with LCC, and followed a car on the highway going 65 mph, then slowed to 35 mph to take a clover leaf exit, merged onto the next highway, and increased speed up to 65 mph again. Not ONCE did I step on the brake or the gas, WOW. LCC is cool. (Of course you cant do this unless there is some other car in front of you, doing the slowing down for you

I am also very excited to try the smart key system, another feature not available on the 300C.

The only negative is that there is a Chrysler dealership 10 blocks from my house, but the closest Toyota dealer is 10 miles. Oh well...

prince812 · February 2005

Hope I am not beating a dead horse here, but just trying to get clarity.

dna, were you comfortable in the front seat of the Av? In reading your earlier posts it seemed that you were more comfortable in the ES, but could you comfortably fit in the Av?

I am 6'0" so it may not be a problem but just wondering what your impressions were.

prince812 · February 2005

I understand the market analysis that says if you wait awhile the prices will go down. In fact that is usually true.

But can someone address the Chrysler 300C? When I was cross-shopping it a few weeks ago it was still going for over MSRP at every dealer I called in my area which is Northern CA. In my own city they had a $6000 markup on the hemi version!

I recognize that is ridiculous but it does seem to indicate that some vehicles continue to sell at MSRP if they are hot. Of course we do not know if the Avalon will be that hot, probably not from all indications. Just wondering if that is a NorCal thing or has anyone else found that to be true regarding the 300C.

You do pay a price for being the first on the block, but are there any guarantees that it will go down significantly even if you do wait? I know there will be 100,000 made but just wanting to take a look at the other side of the coin. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

alpha01 · February 2005

There are no guarantees that price will go down. The Sienna for example, was still selling near MSRP for the more popular loaded models (XLE, XLE AWD, etc) many months after introduction. Even now, the deals are much better on the less popular CEs and lightly optioned LEs. As you move up the trim lines and options packages, prices converge toward MSRP, as the higher trim models are still widely demanded, even with the advent of the new Odyssey (which is a better value, IMO).

~alpha

abfisch · February 2005

Contributors:

1. How many of you purchase a $35k vehicle cash or can lease in on your businesses?????

2. Do you keep this vehicle 10 years or over, or are you trading it in???? The Avalon has a poor resale value if you are trading it in.

3. You are buying a first model year car with alot more electronic equipment on it. Does this concern you??????

4. I probably read it wrong or it was misprinted, but....this new model, besides having a smaller trunk, has the same headroom (w/i .5inches) and legroom, as the past model. In addition to that, with all that extra power, from Premium gas, it printed, that it could only tow 1000 lbs, instead of the old model 2000lbs. Is this becaause of the chassis difference???? Does anyone know?????

5. Unless you have a compelling reason to buy a first year model, I would let those emotional buyers do there thing, and wait for more critical analysis of what this model is and is not.

abfisch

ellis1 · February 2005

ellis1 · February 2005

I saw and test drove the new Avalon this morning, It's a much sharper looking car than the previous Avalon, which I own. It drives beautifully, powerful, quiet, smooth. It was a white XLS, with the lip spoiler on the trunk, with mud guards and NAV.

It's a very nice car, but it didn't knock me over, as I thought it would. I didn't leave with the feeling -- I have to have it. I'm not crazy about the dash board or the wood grain appointments. I think will like the look of the more leather look of the Touring model.

In conclusion, I will wait a month and see if I can do a deal for the Touring model. If not, I will take a hard look a fully loaded XLE Camry, which I know I can do the $26,000. The new Avalon will be popular but I don't think it's going to be the sensation that a lot of people on this forum think it's going to be.

dna2511 · February 2005

prince81, I could not tell much difference in the front seat space and comfort was about the same. I just like the adjustable pedals in the ES. It seemed to make a difference. They both were very comfortable

dna2511 · February 2005

1. How many of you purchase a $35k vehicle cash or can lease in on your businesses?????

pay cash through our company

2. Do you keep this vehicle 10 years or over, or are you trading it in???? The Avalon has a poor resale value if you are trading it in.

usually keep vehicles for 5-6 years at a time. this is a reason I'm favoring the Lexus ES330

3. You are buying a first model year car with alot more electronic equipment on it. Does this concern you??????

A little. Most of the technology is already being used in other vehicles in the toyota/lexus line

4. I probably read it wrong or it was misprinted, but....this new model, besides having a smaller trunk, has the same headroom (w/i .5inches) and legroom, as the past model. In addition to that, with all that extra power, from Premium gas, it printed, that it could only tow 1000 lbs, instead of the old model 2000lbs. Is this becaause of the chassis difference???? Does anyone know?????

great question- no clue here

5. Unless you have a compelling reason to buy a first year model, I would let those emotional buyers do there thing, and wait for more critical analysis of what this model is and is not.

I would agree with you but ineed a car. I have already sold my Excursion. I will buying in the near future

prince812 · February 2005

ellis1,

What did you think about the Nav? Did you use it or did the salesman demonstrate it for you?

thanks

prince812 · February 2005

I find it very interesting that both people that have actually driven have not been blown away by the 05 Av. I have been following this forum and have learned alot, and have even gotten excited about it. But I do find it interesting that those who have actually sit behind the wheel have only liked the car.

Granted I am considering the Limited which might be different than the XLS where it concerns interior as well as the extras. Just some thoughts. Thanks to both guys who posted after driving.

abfisch · February 2005

DNA2511:

Your reply is great. If I had a company pay for it and needed to stay under 40K, this would be a nice new car to have.

It does seem, that they have shifted it focus, bringing into the near Luxury class. Certainly, the higher displacement/HP/torque rating, as well as some appointments and technological advances, such as the ventilated seats, HID lights, as a step up and functional. Bringing the car up to a new class does have its drawbacks. The lack of the bench seat, which I really like in mine, premium gas, a smaller trunk, larger tires, dual outlet (NOT DUAL EXHAUSTS), make this machine more repair intensive, if not maintenance intensive.

While I always am looking at the different models, this Avalon, secondary to the above, intersts me less. The new Acura RL, which I have yet to sit in, is very nice, but that is a good deal more money, although, with AWD, more road worthy suspension you pay for what you get. While not a truck person, the new 2006?? Honda Ridgeline, (NEW TRUCK) V6, independent rear suspension (not solid axle), with what looks like a column shifter is something I am going to have to drive.

If you need a car, I would certainly consider the new Avalon, but I would wait as long as you can, to avoid initial fitment and quality control problems. Good luck.

abfisch

dna2511 · February 2005

prince812,

I was just like you. With all the info I had read I could not wait to drive this car. In my mind I had decided on the Lexus ES330. With the info about power and options I thought this car would be as good or better than the lexus. All the reviews had this car between the ES and the GS lexus. I guess I was too excited about the possible upgrade in options and power. It just fell short in my opinion. Like I said before I have to drive the limited to see if there is a major difference. The list of options it had that excited me were things that I liked about three competing manufacturers combined. I thought this was going to a perfect fit for me

mackabee · February 2005

The great thing about Toyota vehicles is that they don't let the customers find the bugs for them as the domestics do. Look at the number of recalls Ford and GM have. If I were looking to buy a new Avalon that wouldn't deter me from doing so. Toyota tests and tests and tests their vehicles before putting them out to the public. I bought a 92 Camry in its first year and there were three "problems" if you will. One was that the glove compartment would pop open anytime I'd go over a speed bump, the other was the plactic gas cap holder inside the fuel door broke off the first time I used it, and the springs would squeak as if I stepped on a puppy. All three problems were taken care of on a quick visit to my local dealer.

If I were the regional distributor I would launch the new Avalon on Super Bowl Sunday right after the two minute warning, then have the cars at the dealers on Monday morning. But do they listen to me? Nah. Still no Avalons in my area. Just looked at the regional website and looks like most are still at the port and a few have been released to the truckers. The wait continues. Oh, by the way. If any of you have access to the Automotive News (it's a weekly trade publication) there are photos in there of the Detroit auto show. There's one in particular that shows Mr. Carlos Ghosn the head of Nissan sitting in the back of the new Avalon. The look on his face is priceless!

: )

Mackabee

P.S, and to think I have to go through this again in the fall when the FJ Cruiser is released.

ijoubert · February 2005

Like so many of you, I anxiously await the arrival of the 05 Avalon. My '99, which continues to serve me so well, now has 230,000 miles. It's time to turn it over to my wife (she can't wait!), and for me to find its replacement. I'm not so concerned about this being the initial release of the redesign. I'm confident that Toyota has performed its "due diligence" in combining some of the higher tech features found in the Lexus and other Toyota vehicles. I'm working with a local dealership (I've known the Sales Manager for years) and I'm confident that I'll obtain the vehicle of my choice under the MSRP.

In the meantime, I've queried a few of the area Toyo dealerships through their online service, and it seems most are unwilling to negotiate from the MSRP, with one inferring that they would probably push for MSRP+.

I live in the Gulf States area, and my friend has actually (yesterday) asked me accessory by accessory what I wanted in my car. If I get the $$ deal I'm hoping for, and the car appointed as I'd like, I'll be happy to report back to you, giving contact information for my dealer. I'm waiting patiently for my call from him to come see his first arrival!

I appreciate all the input from contributors to this forum. It has certainly educated me, and allowed me impress my friend with all this knowledge!

ellis1 · February 2005

Regarding NAV. Yes, salesman demonstrated it and it's impressive and smart looking. However, it not one of the options that I'm keen on. There are so few occasions where I would use it, expecially when I can get a map and directions on the computer before I leave the house. It's neat, but I don't know how practical it wouold be for most people. The sticker price on this car was $40,000, 35,000 MSRP and 5,000 sale adjustment charge. I said to the saleman "you must be kidding". He said "yeah, just kidding" but I haven't sold one yet and have not received instructions on pricing. They expect to have Limited's, Touring's and XL's around the 18/20th of the month.

fd1000 · February 2005

A few people have said that they did not see how navigation would be very useful. However, I personally can hardly live without it.

I drive a 2002 Jag S-Type with navigation, and I dearly love it. Ever heard of someone 'mapquesting' something? I don't need to, I use the nav system.

There are so many times that my wife and I needed to go to an appointment, visit a friends house for a party, or find a unique store. Each time we use the navigation system.

Why is navigation better then a paper map? Because the nav system knows exactly where you are. It can also plan a route from where you are, to where you are going. It tells you how far the destination is, and on some, your ETA.

If you have been given an address over the phone, we all know it is not very easy to actually find that address on a paper map. Not so with a navigation system, enter the address, and a route is automatically planned.

Navigation also comes in useful when you are driving around town, are in an area you are not often in, and need to travel to another different area. Normally, people might not know the most effecient way to get there, again the nav system is great for that.

Even better is the extra information that nav systems now have. I love the fact that I can pull up restaurants, that are close to my current location, and there phone numbers are listed. In a strange area? Need to find an ATM? Nav system again. How about a post office? Nav again.

Well! This is my opinion of course, but I really do consider it a very usefull tool.

future1 · February 2005

2005 Toyota Avalon page updated with another review.

pmcb48 · February 2005

Just a few more comments about the Nav system. You can't get Mapquest directions unless you are starting from home. Even then, I have found Mapquest directions a little hard to read, particularly when driving by myself. If you should somehow miss your turnoff when otherwise distracted, Mapquest won't tell you to turn around; the Nav system will! Obviously, a Nav system really shines when you're unfamiliar with the area, which is why I love and recommend the Hertz Never Lost option. I'm with you, fd1000. It's pricey, but definitely useful.

cove148 · February 2005

Thanks Future, appreciate the effort you have put into the Avalon page. Good job.

future1 · February 2005

In addition to the comments above regarding the Nav system, I would add that some people just don't have a good sense of direction. I am one of those folks -- take me to a location with more than 5 turns, three times in a row, and I still will not make it there on my own, without using Mapquest. The Nav system for me is almost a necessity. I also considered the detached Nav systems -- you can get a high end one for about $700 (as opposed to the $1900 installed in Avalon), and move it between the cars. The disadvantage is, of course, that there is never a good enough place to mount it, it will generate rattles, and it may also attract thieves.

cove148, thanks -- glad you found the Avalon page useful.

surrfurtom · February 2005

I've got a Magellan Roadmate 700 that works pretty well, but it doesn't have the screen size, features, or number of points of interest that the factory setup has. Acura RL has a great system.

If I got a new car I would definitely get it as an option. It takes all the stress out of driving in an unfamiliar location. You can let the navigator do its work and enjoy the scenery and concentrate on driving. It also eliminates the fights with the wife when as she has to navigate and read a map.

mikes. · February 2005

Has any1 here used Toyota's Nav system?

How do you enter your destination?

Is it a GPS unit?

If you miss a turn will it recalculate the route for you like the Garmin will?

I read that it is voice activated and uses a DVD. Does Toyota send out updated disks? Does the voice do more then tell you where a restaraunt is?

Thanks people, the wife is pretty clueless when it comes to navigation. This should be a big help.

MikeS.

future1 · February 2005

Mikes,

I have not tested the Avalon's Nav yet, but I did test drive Camry XLE and Lexus ES330 and used the Nav. They both worked well, and actually exceeded my expectations in regards to accuracy and usefulness. The way they work is the same as it is with the detached units (you mentioned Garmin) -- enter your destination, and the voice will guide you where you need to take turns, exits, etc. Your current position is tracked by the sattelites (courtesy of US Military), and displayed as a moving marker on the screen where you can see your current location relative to all the surrounding streets and highways. You can also zoom in and out. There are no monthly fees. If you need the map update, it comes on a DVD from Toyota (I believe the cost is around $250). The reported accuracy of the high-end Garmin is 50 feet, so I would think that the factory installed units would be at least that accurate, too. The Avalon spec says that the system also tracks the vehicle speed, presumably for improved accuracy. The Lexus and XLE systems that I tested prompted me at just the right time, as though they know not only how far I was from the turning point, but also how much time in advance I would need to do maneuver.

Additionaly, the new Avalon Nav system is integrated with audio and climate controls, so you can use the Nav screen to see and manipulate the settings. There are also over 5 million points of interest (such as gas stations, restaurants, etc), which you can look up based on your current location, address, or phone number. Or, if you really want to play the high tech, you can turn on the microphone switch, say "I am hungry", and the list of nearby restaurants will pop up on the screen -- I am not making it up!

The voice recognition in the new Avalon must be pretty cool. The way I see it will work is that you press the microphone button on the steering wheel, say "Home", "Mike", "Strip Club", and it will guide you there (presumably you preprogrammed the addresses). This is just the speculation on my part. The Avalon specification does say that the system recognizes over 200 or so different voice commands.

One thing that is different in Avalon is that its Nav system is joystick-controlled (as opposed to the more common touch-screen interface). Not sure if it is more or less user-friendly. The Consumer Guide cited this as the only con in its review of the 2005 Avalon, and I've also read a few complains from the 2004 Avalon owners regarding the Nav system (especially how it is positioned). I'll report more on the Nav what I test drive the new Avalon.

abfisch · February 2005

Mackabee:

My experience and some others lead us to a difference of opinions. I had alot of trouble with no only a front end shimmy at high speed as wheel as an increase in it when the brakes were applied. I had a lousy dealer experience as well as a corporate experience, both snow balling me in a run around game to placed me back and forth from the dealer to the corporation then back to the local dealer. Finally I fixed it on my own. The rotor was badly warped and the steel wheels were out of round, none of which I did. If you look at the Honda Accord and Subaru Legacy site, same or similar problem with the brake rotors on a first model year. They began using cheaper parts.

I would not buy another Toyota on a customer loyalty basis but on factual information on a proven, model with very good to excellent reliability that fits the individuals lifestyle and needs.

First year models, regardless of crossing parts are a risk I would not take regardless of brand, be it Toyota or Honda. The Avalon is no exception.

Enthusiastic buyer beware.

abfisch

barrygel · February 2005

The car is nice but i wouldn't gush. The seating is the same as my 01 avalon so that's ok. Didn't have a chance to drive it as it just arrived at the dealer.

The only thing that bothers me is that it does not have body side moldings. This will call a lot of nicks and dings on the body from other peoples car doors hitting the sides of the car. The dealer said he didn't realize that these moldings were not there but assumed that there will be a fix at additional cost. By the way I received an email answer from Toyota customer service that 91 octane is not required and will not void any warranty if 87 octane is used. Some performance may be affected but not gas milage. Southeast dealers are trying to get MSRP plus.

douglas1 · February 2005

Last night on CNN they had an ad for the new Avalon, just caught the end of it, however.

Got the March issue of Bon Appetit yesterday and the back cover is an Avalon ad.

moxie · February 2005

future1

The Avalon page is an awesome resource - if you are the instigator, I say Thank You, Thank You.

I was set to trade Camry XLE for ES330 but am now eagerly awaiting arrival of the new Av at my dealer, for test drive. On paper, it seems to blow away the ES.

Regards.

negative · February 2005

Unfortunately, I have to agree with abfisch based on experience with my '92 Camry, which I purchased on 9/27/91. It was one of the first of that generation ever made, in July '91 according to the door label. It had about five or six defects, some of which I can't even remember anymore. I do recall that the remote trunk release wouldn't work and that the airbag warning light went off a few weeks after delivery. That one scared me into dropping it off at the dealer and leaving it there until fixed, in the off-chance it was going to deploy at an inopportune moment. (I realized the chances of that were slim, but didn't want to risk it.) The rear suspension bushings also got very noisy. (This was not isolated to my car; a recall was issued.) As the defects were repaired, they did not reoccur, but they did result in inconvenience and down time. The moral of the story is that even Japanese brand cars when first produced can be buggy.

I am waiting to see if the Avalon has a fold-down rear seat, which is make-or-break for me. The literature says there is just a pass-through port. But twice now I have been told by 800-GO-TOYOTA that the seats will fold down. I kind of doubt it, but I'll find out soon enough.

If not, Miss First Runner Up is currently the Maxima. But I am troubled by all the reports that the current model suffers from more than just a touch of citrus.

buckwheat · February 2005

For those who want to read anything available on the Avalon..

http://wardsauto.com/microsites/newsarticle.asp?mode=print&ne- wsarticleid=2738262&releaseid=&srid=10250&magazineid=- 1004&siteid=26

mackabee · February 2005

My Camry was a 92 also. You will notice these were American made Camrys we are talking about. I was annoyed by the "defects" in my car but it was nothing that would keep me from buying a first year car.

Our first Avalon just got off the truck about an hour ago. Limited in Desert sand with every imaginably options. Maybe it's the proportions of the car but it looks smaller to me than the previous generation. I had a chance to sit in the driver's seat and the back seat to try the reclining feature. I'm very impressed with the fit and finish of the interior and exterior. Looking at the car from the rear quarter it does look a bit like a 7 series Bimmer. I'm not too impressed by the front which looks to me like a big Corolla front end with chrome accents. Overall it's a very nice car though. The Desert sand color does not do it justice. I'd like to see the Titanium or Cassis pearl.

              : )

              Mackabee

                       : )

                       Mackabee

thepope1 · February 2005

I hope that Toyota has a person that follows this Town Hall forum. I have owned several Toyotas - Including a Pick-up; a Cressida and 2 Avalons. I now know here's what you'll get for 2005 vs 2000-2004 (based on Toyota data):

The XLS no longer offers Memory on the Driver Seat and outside mirrors - Head room is decreased - An increase (slight) in shoulder and hip room - Increased wheelbase 3.9" - Front Leg Room is only 1.1" greater (most was given to rear seat passengers (and how often do you carry adult passengers?) - Coefficient of drag is worse by 0.11 - Curb weight is increased 121 lbs - Horse Power is up from 210 to 280 and boy how we needed that ! ??? - Speedometer now reads up to 160 (Need that too) - Leg room in rear is increased (at the big expense of trunk space, 14.4 cu.ft. down from 15.9 - Turning circle is down from 37.6 to 36.9 - The front doors no longer have the VERY handy pull-out storage bins - The storge space on the 2005 front doors are quite deep and not practical, for most items. What idiot engineers designed these 'improvements'?

Want some extra goodies? How about perforated leather seats; driver's seat cushion extension; driver's seat and outside mirror memory; smart key system; puddle lights; acoustic noise reducing windshield; rain sensing wipers; 360 watt sound system; power rear window sun-shade. Oh, yeh...those are standard on the Limited for only $4,000 more then the XLS.

And how about the available colors? Don't they excite you to a ho-hum degree? I don't know who selects 'em, but they are not aware that earth tones are no longer 'IN'. Better Toyota should emulate Chrysler colors.

I don't know how others will react, but this guy is going shopping for another auto in the XLS price range. The 2005 Avalon does not live up to all the hype this forum and others have injected...and that is very sad and I believe too bad - for Toyota.

cove148 · February 2005

My dealer got an XL. Not impressed at all, based on looking at the lowest model. Outside, lack of side molding makes this a dent magnet, the rubber seal on front doors does not go all the way up, showing paint through the seal, perhaps air & noise, car is just a little big overall making kind of an awkward look from the side. like the sizes of the 04 better. The back end is cool, looks ok, really can tell the smaller trunk space. All other things on the outside are to Toyota standards.

Inside, dash area is better, the trim around the shifter looks cheap as does the feel on the cup holder doors.

Didn't want to spend much time looking at it until the top of the line models come in.

It certainly didn't make me want to sign up for one based on that model.

mackabee · February 2005

Easy there fellow! Too early to get excited about it. Do you really believe TMS would bring out this car if they had not done market research and focus groups? Most of the improvements were done based on input from current Avalon owners. The trunk is quite spacious, I didn't see that much of a difference. The turning radius is smaller now so making u turns is even easier. (For the folks who don't have Nav and get lost) ; ) There are storage bins on the doors. Look carefully. And don't forget the HID lights and power rear sunshade. Price difference is $2,740.00 not $4000.00

; )

Mackabee

negative · February 2005

My buggy '92 Camry was not American made. The first letter of the VIN was a J. Toyota City stuff.

Forgot that another defect was a piece of metal in the driver's seatback that had popped out of place and was VERY painful! Swapping the seat got rid of that problem.

dshimkat · February 2005

Hello. This is my first post, although I have been reading this discussion thread for some time. I have appreciated all the info that I have obtained by reading what has been posted here.

I own a 2001 Avalon XLS, which I purchased new in Feb. 2001. It has been a very reliable car, which I have enjoyed owning the past four years. I just returned from the local Toyota dealer where I purchased their first 2005 Avalon, which was a Desert Sand Limited model. The only options on the car were the VSC/TRAC/BA and Carpeted Floor and Trunk Mats. The MSRP was $34,929, which is what I paid, but, I did get them to add XM Satellite Radio, All Weather Mats, & Mud Guards at no additional charge.

Yes, I know that in a few weeks/months I could have probably saved more money as they will probably be discounting them by then. But, I had the opportunity to sell my 2001 Avalon privately at a very good price to a good friend(it is in excellent condition with only 32K miles). Once I drove the new 2005 Avalon I was very impressed, compared to my 2001 Avalon. The 2005 felt a lot like my 1990 Lexus LS 400, which I bought new in 1990 and kept for 5 years (all trouble free). The increased power and lack of noise, vibration, and harshness was impressive. For those of you that are wondering, Yes, I am close to the age range of their target market (I am 55).

In any event, I should pick the car up around the middle of next week, after they get the additional options installed that are part of my deal.

Thanks again for all the usefull info that has been posted in this thread. I look forward to many trouble fee miles of ownership with my 2005 Avalon.

wesg · February 2005

Has anyone compared a Limited with the Mercury Montego top-of-the-line with all wheel drive? The Mercury specs give more head room, plenty of rear seat, huge trunk and all-wheel drive...but is it a good comfortable old-folks ride?

fd1000 · February 2005

Just wanted to shed a little extra light on a statement that future1 made about Nav systems in general.

When using a Nav system, it is true that your car is using US Military sattelites to track its position. However it is not the sattelites that are tracking you, but the car that is tracking the sattelites.

Basically, don't be afraid that someone could be tracking you. Nav systems receive generic signals from various sattelites, and use that information to calculate its position on a map. Just like no one in the world can tell if you are listening to a radio station, no one can tell if you are using a Nav system.

Another interesting FYI, is that the US Millitary nav sattelites do allow for position finding, down to just a few inches, however those signals are reserved for just the Millitary, we civilians get the within 50 foot stuff.

coug2 · February 2005

I bought the first sequoia they had on the lot and have been very happy...

I would have preferred to wait, but needed the vehicle then and my choices were (1) brand new toyo model, or (2) existing domestic. I thought there was less risk in the toyo.

I remain convinced that a new av will be more reliable than a 300, a 500, any older model comparable domestic or any vw, mb, bmw, volvo.

That said, I won't buy until prices are negotiable.

future1 · February 2005

fd1000: When using a Nav system, it is true that your car is using US Military sattelites to track its position. However it is not the sattelites that are tracking you, but the car that is tracking the sattelites.

Thanks for that clarification, fd1000. Yes, the GPS inside the car acts as a receiver, not as the transmitter. Essentially, the satellite broadcasts a time-stamped signal every 1 second. The GPS inside the car receives the signal, and since the speed of the signal is known, along with the time taken to receive it, the distance can be calculated. Cross-check the signals from 3 different sources, and viola, you know where you are in our 3-dimensional space.

"Umm", you might say, "Doesn't the clock tick faster in space compared to the clock on Earth, due to the relativistic effects?". You bet your sweet Avalon, it does. And if your beloved Toyota didn't account for it in its Nav system, the errors would accumulate to the 7 miles error rate GPS accuracy per day.

How's that for the marketing pitch?

dna2511 · February 2005

Hello everyone,

I drove the limited today. There was no difference in the drive or ride between the limited and the xls. The options on the limited are nice. I did not try the laser cruise. The rear sunshade made a loud scrubbing noise when moving up and down. The smart key was ok. I've never had one before and I will not miss having one(seemed to be complicated). I probably needed to read the manual about it, this might have made it easy. The nav is ok. Looked to be the same as the lexus model. The screen is smaller than the lexus and does not offer touch functions. They both have the voice command feature. The radio has alot of speakers(12) but does not seem to be as good as the mark lev. The power is a nice feature but I'm over my obsession with speed and power. The Es330 has enough power for me. I have a concern that this vehicle has no protection for the doors. Without the molding it will be dinged up pretty bad. The wood interior is nice but looks cheap.I just did not think it looked real. The driver seat extension was neat but I could not feel a difference because of my long legs. Since my legs will not extend straight, they are bent higher than the end of the seat. The ride was nice but the car is louder than I expected. I don't know if the tires are part of the problem but you could hear all bumps and road noise. I drove on asphalt and concrete up to 70 mph. The exterior of the car looks plain. Very little chrome accents other than the grill. The car had alot of add-ons from the toyota southeast crew. The xm radio I would like to have but the antenna is a little 2" square black box that they attached on the edge of the trunk lid. When the trunk is open you can see the wire wrapped around the edge. When I walked up I thought it was one of the protectors you see on the edge of the doors that are removed during cleanup.It probably would not be as noticeable if it wasn't in the middle of the trunk. It had remote start, which took me and the sales manager 4 times to get to work correctly. Also had alot of markup junk.(protection package, splash guards, ect.) The msrp was 39450.00. The dealer said the best price will be around 1000 off msrp. This will not even cover the markup junk. I was really looking forward to this car but I can not see paying this for the avalon. If think about it for 2-3 grand more than this sticker you could purchase the new 2006 GS300 lexus. I believe the base msrp is going to be 42,300.00. I will be purchasing the ES330 loaded with nav, mark lev, heated\cool seats, power pedals, rear sunshade, xm radio for 34800. I can not justify paying 4500+ more for the avalon

mackabee · February 2005

Mine was Kentucky born and bred. Having had two previously made in Japan Toyotas, I was spoiled with the quality and reliability of my Celica and Toyota Van. We were leery aboout buying one made in the US and when those "problems" showed up my wife was very disappointed. Didn't have a single problem since those were fixed other than the normal wear and tear items.

: )

Mackabee

future1 · February 2005

As some negative feedback about the Avalon has accumulated, I captured it and added a link "Negative comments" to the 2005 Avalon Page. Please do not kill the messenger (your humble correspondent, that is) -- I am just presenting all sides of the story.

mikes. · February 2005

Obviously the dealers are finally getting these cars in. I got a call from one of the dealers offering me a test drive this afternoon. I had to decline for now, they were too far away. Hopefully next week I'll get to drive one locally.

MikeS.

littlejohn600 · February 2005

I notice on the net that a dealer in Gaithersburg, Md. has 2005 Avalons for abut $2K under MSRP. (e.g. XLS with EJ,VSC,WL,& Z1 List=$33,592, Invoice=$29,903, Sale price $31,403 plus $99 PREP). The TTL for each state is differant, so it is not applicable here.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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