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I have also noticed that in the situation that bobwiley describes, that when I accelerate after slowing to say 10 MPH, the transmission downshifts and the engine revs in away that I would not allow if I were driving a stick shift. This reving is very short in duration, the acceleration is smooth and prompt, so it is not a problem for me. I wonder if changes have been made in the software controlling the transmission in the 2007.
I also have a 1997 Avalon that I still enjoy driving but in my opinion the 2007 is a quantum leap forward
No, that's exactly what I thought at one time. You're losing the engine braking drag because that drag on a FWD vehicle can easily result in loss of control, directional control, if the roadbed happens to be slippery. You may notice that it also happens at higher speeds, the transaxle upshifts upon a FULL lift-throttle event.
Look around, Google for:
wwest "throttle lag" hesitation
For more detail.
Or start by reading the post I just added for the Suzuki SX4 thread.
This to me is "transmission slipping" for whatever reason you want to use. Worn out clutches act this way and poor computer selection for the shifting timing act this way.. Anyway it happens.
I have used the manual shift a number of times until I found I was in 3rd gear doing 60 mph.
ange
There is way to know when you are close. I angled the camera so I could not see anymore ground and still had 12 inches before touching anything.
The electronic box is designed for the Avalon navigation computer unit in the trunk. You disconnect two multiwire terminals and install the box terminals and then replace the Avalon terminals on top. The power source to the camera part comes from the back up wire. When the shift lever is placed in reverse, the back up light gets power and so does the box sending the camera signal to the factory navigation screen. When shifting to drive the normal navigation unit comes on. I had to run wires to fuse box under the dash for power and ground.
I looked at the $100 wireless units. Some can be turned on all of the time or only come on when wired to the back up lights. I was afraid to get one because of the small angle viewed and poor picture quality. I did not want a blank screen mounted somewhere up front.
Check the internet re back up cameras. There many out there.
ange
Bob
All you need to do is to shift out of D, into S and 5, and just leave it there.
In the S-5 mode, the car will shift through all the gears as needed, but with no attempts at "learning" and no surprises. Keep driving as you would in D. No need to shift up & down manually through the gears (unless you enjoy this exercise, of course).
If this doesn't cure it, check your foot placement on the gas pedal. Avoid toe-driving. The Av has a sensitive accelerator that is best controlled by applying foot pressure on the middle or the top half of the gas pedal. Toe driving can cause lags and surges, as was extensively discussed in this thread over a year ago.
Just about 2 years already and still impressed with my XLS.
Bob
agree there is a transmission problem. They tell me toyota is working on it. I'll have to complain to NHTSA to be another on the list.
The unexpected slip-miss when trying to get into a fast traffic lane could or can be an accident or near miss. I have driven many company cars, got a new one every two years, and never experienced the transmission slippage during fast acceleration or the hesitation in slow traffic that the avalon exhibites. It is not a nice thing to say, but when you have a company you can do some things you would never do when you pay for the car. I did some tough driving with these cars and none hesitated and slipped as does the avalon.
There have been times, maybe 1-2 times per year when the car would be a situtation when speed, gear, and rpms would be such that the transmission controlling electronics would be so close to going one gear up or one gear down and a slight hesitation would happon. This flaw and was liveable and not annoying, especially when it happens more on a freakish basis. I believe I can duplicate the avalon slippage when slowing and then fast acceleration.
I tried the manual mode in slow rush hour traffic and I could not see no any improvement. It is kind of embarassing to have your friends in the car and they comment on the poor transmission changes.
I don't know why toyota, knowing they had transmission problems in the lexus models before the avalons, 2005's, came out, and still did not do anything. Then making the same transmission throuh 2007, doesn't make any common sense. I think it makes 'money sense' to them.
Ange
Yes, for a VERY long time now.
Actually the very first written record of the 1-2 second downshift delay was a TSB issued in the spring of 2003 for the 2002 Camry. The earliest recorded customer symptoms indicative of this problem involved the initial production run of the RX300 in '98.
Bob
The license plate camera is made by BOYO. Mfg.by Visionhitech Co. cost about $129.
You can find these on the internet.
The selling point for me was using the existing screen and not having to solder wires to install. I did not want an empty screen mounted somewhere around the dash being dark except when in reverse. ange
Anyways, worked like a charm on my '05 Limited. I really needed it today, with the blizzard hitting us in the Northeast...
Today was the first time I've been stuck in wet, heavy snow with my Avalon. I couldn't rock the car without the damn VSC kicking in. What a PITA! I thought to myself, "There's got to be way to shut it off." So, I break out the manual and on page 320 it says something along the lines of "...if the vehicle gets stuck, VSC can be turned off..." SWEET! Then it goes on to say; "...contact your Toyota dealer for detailed information." D'oh!!!
So I call my dealer, who is closed because it's a BLIZZARD. I then call the Toyota 800 number in the front of the book. When I get through to a real, live CS rep, it took about twenty minutes of patient explaination and waiting to get them to research the answer and promise to call me back. In the meantime, I go back to my office and find the info on the 'net. In less than an hour, I've got it printed out and ready to try. As I'm walking back to my stranded vehicle, my cell rings. It's the Toyota CS rep. She says that the technical people she contacted said "...the VSC system is automatic and cannot be turned off" I thanked her for calling back and told her that I found the information I needed on the Internet and was about to implement it. Minutes later, I was on my way home.
Next, replace the OEM Michelins with a fine set Nokian WR's.
"The 2007 Toyota Avalon 3.5l is a canister filter. Mobil one does offer that style yet."
I don't want to show my stupidity, but what is a "canister" filter.. How do they differ from "normal" filters and which is better for your car? Somebody please help an old man out. Preesh.
Roland
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I do now, too.
Ditto on the idea of a hardware switch.
No messing with hardware, just software.
Click the link below, print the 13 step engage/disengage procedure. Then watch the video.
How to switch off VSC on a Lexus GS430
The other reason is the recycling issue. It is much more easy to dispose of the paper filter cartridge and have to separate the can and gasket assembly.
Bob
Bob
Bob
The way I see it, if you shift back to D after you start in S1, you are telling the CPU to start watching your driving habits again! If you return to the same old slow down/speed up location while in D, your Av will faithfully screw up for you, again!
This is why I suggest that you shift into S5 and just leave it there. Don't shift back to D. See if this cures the surging misbehavior.
havalong
Glad that you too prefer to drive in S5. But I don't follow the argument that this may cost you some FE. I see no reason why driving in S5 would be worse than in D, FE-wise. I actually find the opposite. In S, I can often "nudge" it into a higher gear sooner than the controller would. For example, as I'm about to reach the crest of a hill, I can make the RPM drop from say 2400 to 1800 with no loss of speed nor any noticeable strain. This should help improve FE, slightly. Don't you agree?
That would definitely affect FE adversely.
Or maybe it could be, that without the 'hesitation' I inevitably push the car a little harder and that is what is hurting the FE - which is still quite satisfactory at 27mpg overall BTW.
With a manual transaxle and FWD you would NEVER consider using engine braking to slow the vehicle if the roadbed is slippery or you have reason to suspect it to be slippery, OAT well below freezing, black ice, etc.
ABS is nice and all but even with RWD sometimes it is simply best to lightly apply the rear e-brake, especially "sliding" down a slippery incline.
Not having an easy method for detecting roadbed condition most manufacturers of FWD have recently chosen to revise the automatic transaxle shift schedule in a manner that virtually eliminates engine braking on those front wheels at all times.
And keep in mind that it doesn't take very much engine braking to prevent ABS from being functional on an extremely low traction surface, the worse possible situation.
now you know I'm not going to bite on this - and I understand what you are saying - to which I will counter that FWD makes for an inherently more driveable vehicle (other than possibly AW/4WD) especially in slippery conditions, despite your well founded concerns about engine braking. If we were to outlaw FWD as somehow being patently unsafe and all cars reverted back to RWD, we would have a whole pile of folks that couldn't get around anymore - especially on snowy/icy roads. RWD does have some disadvantages.
My daily commute includes 20 km (12 mi) of mixed country road/city street driving with 700 m (2300 ft) changes in elevation. I have compared driving up and down the same hills in D and in S, in light and heavy traffic, all seasons, for 2 years now.
Driving in D up a fairly steep (12%) hill at 30-40 mph, my Av will not upshift from 3rd gear until well after having cleared the crest and on flat terrain again. This was an early observation that I found a bit annoying and it prompted me to experiment with the S mode. In S, I can nudge it into 4th and sometimes 5th well before reaching the crest, with no reduction in speed and with a noticeable gain in FE.
Part of the reason obviously is that I can anticipate when the slope will change; the ECU cannot. But even after reaching level ground again, when in D, it waits too long and "hangs" in 3rd at 3500 RPM, when it could and should have upshifted earlier. When in S, my Av upshifts sooner -- or if it doesn't, I nudge it. The FE display clearly confirms the benefit of upshifting earlier.
Since 50% of my daily driving is on hilly terrain, so 25% up hills when fuel consumption is clearly highest, I find that driving in S is in fact more fuel efficient for me than driving in D.
The difference would be less for driving on mainly level roads. I assume that your daily driving does not include many hills -- correct?
I recently installed, in another vehicle, a stand-alone wireless backup camera and monitor, paid Can$99 at Costco. Works very well. The camera protrudes a couple cm beyond the license plate, but remains contained within the recessed area for the plate. It would not be reached by light contact from a flat bumper from another vehicle.
I haven't tried to install one in my Av, so can't suggest how to locate the monitor and wiring. If you do, please post your solution. Thanks.
Correct, I live in a very flat part of the US, don't get to play with hills very much. Are you leaving the tranny in S5, and 'nudging' the upshifts with your right foot, or a manual gear change?
Manually. I keep my foot off the gas pedal as much as possible; I find this helps the FE more than anything else! Pun intended; but really, it's interesting how little you need to step on the gas with the Av, even up hills.
Bob
The cost of the plate camera and the OEM Navigation Dual Video Input Interface Module With Wiring Harness was about $500.
I looked at the bumper ,drill a hole camera, and the square units and decided they looked a little out of place and did not do anything to add positively to car.
I got the silver plate-camera to match the toyota emblems on the trunk. ange
One thing I noticed, Toyota did a super job designing the kick plates. Really well made. Thes are the best I have ever seen. ange
Not having an easy method for detecting roadbed condition most manufacturers of FWD have recently chosen to revise the automatic transaxle shift schedule in a manner that virtually eliminates engine braking on those front wheels at all times.
wwest,
I just confirmed that if in D, my 2005 Av XLS does downshift when I apply the brakes coming down a hill at say 100 km/h to reduce speed to 70, it automatically downshifts from 5th to 4th gear. When I drive in S5 on the same hill and apply the brakes in the same manner, it does not downshift.
You say this programmed downshift is dangerous. Since the Av is equipped with multiple sensors ("It may be icy?") I wonder whether it is also programmed to not downshift when conditions are dangerously slippery? I have not checked this.
Also, if things go sour I expect the Av VSC to take over. But, wouldn't VSC actions also involve downshifting?
Earlier I mentioned the FE benefit of driving in S5, UP hills. Since the Av is programmed to use engine braking when in D, and engine braking is likely to affect FE, driving in S5 DOWN hills is also likely to improve FE.
Maybe you'll want to visit New Mexico to check this out
So yes, upon brake application the SOLID COUPLING from the engine to the drive wheels MUST be removed in favor of the slush pump, torque converter, only.
Obviously, also, you will get less engine braking via the slush pump vs the solid engine coupling provided by the lockup clutch.
VSC uses brake application, or if the brakes are already applied brake UN-application.
My 2001 AWD RX300 will apply both rear brakes, to help slow the RX and thereby regain traction at the front, if understearing is detected. If braking is already applied it will "lighten" the braking at the front. With overstearing it will brake the front wheel on the outside of the turn/skid, or "lighten" the braking on the inside front wheel.
Apparently Ford is already using the OAT sensor readings to significantly reduce the level of regenerative braking on the FWD hybrid Escape and Mariner vehicles when the local climate nears or is below freezing.
More marques to follow...?
Did rotate my tires today, my Michelins (after 43k) looking like they need replacing soon - anybody got any ideas?
Bob