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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150
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"I am glad I convinced you that the new F150 did increased the sales of the F-series. Common sense always win out. Actually Ford sold over 26k of new F150 in January, about 8k of the old ones (03&04 models), so there you go."
Another quote of yours:
"In 2003, Ford sold 845,586 F-series, 350,320 of them were F250-F550, good for 41%. In other words, F150 accounts for 59%, not 45%."
Ford Quote and Fact:
"F-Series 61,979" (for Jan 2004)
Fact (based on your quotes) Ford F-150 series had approx. 55% of the Jan 2004 sales of all the F-series - A 4% decrease from the average of 2003.
Now - Where did you get your figures?
Spin it any way you want, Ford's F-series lost market share in Jan for whatever reason. No matter how you spin it, only Dodge had a worse increase; for whatever reason.
Live with it.
As to the Titan projections for Jan - get real. Many dealers still had not even got any Titans. Nissan won't hit their average monthly sales for quite a while for reasons mentioned above.
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Fact (based on your quotes) Ford F-150 series had approx. 55% of the Jan 2004 sales of all the F-series - A 4% decrease from the average of 2003.
Monthly (or seasonal) fluctuations. I thought I mentioned this somewhere. Oh, it was on GM, it should also apply on Ford, and F-sereis. Wait, I thought you agreed the new F150 is the reason for the F-series sales increase.
Now - Where did you get your figures?
Well, I bought a brand new Lincoln LS at Accord price... I have my sources. bowke probably can get you the exact number, if he wants to.
Spin it any way you want, Ford's F-series lost market share in Jan for whatever reason. No matter how you spin it, only Dodge had a worse increase; for whatever reason.
Live with it.
In a rapid and ever expanding segment. If F-series can have double digit increase month after month, and setting all time records along the way, I certainly can live with it.
As to the Titan projections for Jan - get real. Many dealers still had not even got any Titans. Nissan won't hit their average monthly sales for quite a while for reasons mentioned above.
I don't know who needs to get real here. Every automaker, I repeat EVERY, has sales projection for every single model they make. They know how many they made/can make, they know their capacity, they know what sells in what region and in what season. And I was not asking Titan to reach average monthly number. I was asking for the projection.
and to "my own", preaching "double digit growth" (you can't get much closer to single digit growth :-) ) over as year that declined by a "high" single digit (7.24%) isn't impressive to me. I would have thought with the amount of hoopla and advertising done, the growth of the Ford F-150 would have been the best of the bunch - which so far it is not.
As an aside, I would still like somebody to find and post a source that can show F-150 sales only on a monthly and yearly basis for the last number of years.
2nd worst increase in sales? How is this bad if you already sell the most trucks? Might want to review the nature of statistics.
Ford 9.6% increase is 5410 trucks (based on pickuptruck.com's numbers)
Tundra's 23.7% increase is 1741 trucks
Avalanche's 65.3% increase was 2549 trucks.
How's that for growth? Only the Sierra and Silverado combined can surpass the F-150, in new sales vs jan 2003, not in total sales of 2004.
Although we still do not know what sold best, Heritage, new F-150, or F-250 and above. ANT doesnt get back untill the 10th, hopefully we will get some real numbers then.
My explination for the Tundra and GM trucks are these.
The Tundras new Double Cab is basically a new truck this year as well. A lot of work and money had to go into this truck to give it its four real doors. So quite possibly the increase could be due to sales of this new model. Who knows, but it is some sort of explination. Either way, a almost 30% increase year over year is amazing for an aging truck like the Tundra, i dont know how else to explain it.
The GM trucks have the highest incentives right now by far... And they traditionally always have. No doubt in my mind that Ford is making much more money even though GM has had more sales in January. Either way, i would say that 15% increase over last year with it being the only truck out there with such a lavish incentive base is a number i would expect.
Then McDonald's is the best hamburgers, and Walmart is the best place to buy furniture and clothing.
No thanks, I prefer Rocky Ranch's real beef Texas Hamburger, and the local run shop for real athletic wear.
What about DVD's at Walmart? Is there any problem with buying the same exact DVD at walmart than at Sam Goody's for 7 bucks more? Or hangers? I'm sure IKEA has the best hangers, as the simple plastic ones defintely have a hard time holding up my clothes. <sarcasm>
"All this talk about sales is laborious. The Ford guys keep saying ad infinitum the F150 is best because it's selling the most??"
And Bob Dole keeps saying he's the best because he got the most votes in the last election.
So let's not sidestep anymore. You know that each time a vehicle is bought, that's what the vehicle buyer wanted, unless he just had 20 to 30 grand to burn. Each purchase is a vote for what vehicle suited the person best for pricing, type of otions, or lotalty reasons. So if the "best" truck is not accurate for F-150, then it must be the most the most sought after/desired truck.
Import manufacturers use a little different approach, the Titan is aimed at the first time truck buyer IMO, who has a family, and maybe a boat and has owned foreign cars before, in my belief
Speaking of desireability, I waited 7 weeks for a Titan,CC,SE,Util Bed Pkg to come in. At any moment I could have literally walked 3 blocks over to Ford & had my pick of some 30-40 F150's all with $4,000 discounts. It was worth the wait.
I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but Accord and Camry had some very humble beginnings,and with just a few dealers. If Ford & Chev use some of the loyalists' self rationalizations as on this thread, they're gonna get whooped again and on the last leg they have.
How many was it that they managed in January again? LOL.
They've been rolling them out to dealerships for a while now. I'm sure sales will pickup somewhat, but not nearly as much as Nissan would hope.
Nissan sales up 25.7% over Last years January.
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=F&scri- pt=414&layout=-6&item_id=491202
"Overall, U.S. customers purchased or leased 230,036 cars and trucks from Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar, Volvo, and Land Rover dealers in January, down 5 percent compared with a year ago, primarily reflecting lower sales of passenger cars (down 14 percent). Truck sales essentially were equal to a year ago."
http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/newswire/2004/02/08/rtr1251109.ht- ml
Just look at the center pages of February 16, 2004 issue of Newsweek magazine to refresh your memory on just how attractive the Ford F-150 is.
Wow! I leave for a few days and guys go nuts!
I see the Aggie is still here and I'm able to accept that so what's the big deal?
Wow! I leave for a few days and guys go nuts!
I see the Aggie is still here and I'm able to accept that so what's the big deal?
Titan Rules!!
Isn't there a hockey game on so one can relieve some stress watching a player beat the crap out of another or down here a race where the crowd watches cars go around in circles waiting for something to happen.
It feels very Nissan inside. I'm looking into the QX56 to see if I like the interior of that better.
We bought a Titan just before christmas. It is the one I usually drive since the RAMs are almost always hooked up to one of the trailers or loaded with grain or something else. The titan isn't as quiet as the RAM, but I like the way it drives and suits me pretty good. I wish the pedals were closer since I'm kinda short. If we do any serious hauling we use the other trucks since the boxes are much bigger and they seem to tow a little easier.
Weve had a few issues with the Titan. The transmission over heated, the first time we towed a 4-set up trailer. We are getting what the dealer said was some clutch chatter, but that comes and goes. Sometimes the dash lights flicker and the power steering has a growl in it in real cold weather. The real gripe is the gas mileage is lousy. We are going to see how this truck holds up, but we may trade it off next summer.
F-150 just received the governments highest rating for frontal crash (NHTSA). This assessment is different from the IIHS test, which the F-150 received a "BEST PICK" rating.
We had head gaskets replaced on the 2002 ford at 70k and it never seemed to run right from the start. They replaced the computer 3 or 4 times , then just gave up on the truck.lots of little problems in the last few fords we owned. We had rear end problems on the 98. the ford transmissions in the last few years are junk. we have friends whove owned fords as long as us and have had troubles to. We had paint problems, door problems, starter problems, electrical problems, and brake problems all of the time. So far in 2 years weve had less problems with our Dodges than we ever did with the last 2 fords. We still have a 97 ford that my son drives. that will be the last ford in our future!!
We bought the titan on a lark, and we didn't need a minivan anymore since the kids are all driving them selves around anyways. a minivan is nice as long as it isn't a ford. talk about transmission problems. we had to replace the engine on that to, out of our pockets, I might ad.
Some of our friends have owned dodges and they just never seem to have many problems with them, so we didn't that since ford snubbed on the last transmission, we'd try them (dodge). One of the reasons we bought fords for so many years is they don't rust out as quick as the chevys. my dads a REAL big chevy man and he takes a beating on tradins because they always have rust holes in them. The dodges around here seem to hold up as good as the fords.
I like the titan but the gas mileage is pretty bad, so i might try a dakota next time. Also, I thought Id want 4 doors but maybe that was a bad decision, now.
Bye.
I was torn and agonizing which one to get, Titan or Dakota. Gas mileage would be the worst fear. Well, after having done a number crunching, for my style of driving (26,000 mi. a year) looks like I will be spending $80 more a month for the additional fuel consumption. I can easily come up with that. I CANNOT come up with the feeling of tank-ness that Titan has while sitting in a Dodge. In fact, Dodge's mileage even with weaker V6 offers minuscule improvement in final price over Titan, yet massive sacrifice in size.
I have always said, what costs most in a vehicle is not the fuel, but depreciation.
I'll wait until mid-year until the dealers start feel hotter under the collars and get bare-bones, no-frills Titan, and happily roll into sunset.
There could not be any inklings to upgrade from that. Shouldn't cost more than $3-4k over similar no-frills Dakota for a lot more of a truck.
OH BTW, in the way of introduction, I recently (2000) started to buy new vehicles. They key is to locate a desperate dealer, preferably away from metro areas of big cities, dangle the signed check, then rip off a huge chunk in one bite and swim away in new shiny toy. I'll let y'all know how I did.
Chris, we are already in the country! there aren't a lot of any kind of dealers around here. One chevy, one dodge, and one ford. etc. I'm thinking of going down in size because i really don't need a big truck anymore. I've driven a dakota a number of times (my daughter and son in law have one) and I like the size and the way it handles. Besides, the box on the titan isn't much bigger than a dakota, anyways.
Beds are virtually same, but majority of the time I spend in truck is behind the wheel - hence strong predilection for bigger cabin.
I will see how the service fees and insurance will compare b/n Dakota and Titan and will make a decision based on that.
Reason I had better luck with rural dealers is that in metro areas there is a marketing fee levied on all common brand dealers for these full page color ads in local fishwrapper. At any rate, when the dealer sees that you are getting serious about commitment, they will search the inventory state-wide anyway. It's all about "who wants to make a sale today?". There will always be someone.
Last Nissan I bought was 2002 Altima S 2.5 w/ 5 spd. (Love it!!!) Called 9 dealers. Some would not budge $50 off their price, smug b@$t@rds. Took two days off of work, and racked up some long-distance charges, developed major headache and sore throat from yelling, but at the end... $4,200 difference from the first offer I heard made it very worth it. It was $1,100 less than everybody swore than they cannot do. Bought at the time when there was no Nissan promotion of any kind.
This approach should work on Titan as well.
The rural dealers are very eager to unload Muranos, BTW, in my experience.
Bowke28, while you are at it, what is the truck's REAL worth, pray tell. (Hint: only as much as you can get someone to pay for it, not a penny more)