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Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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    groovologygroovology Member Posts: 24
    OUCH! That's gotta hurt. I guess we have to conclude that Toyota Canada is pretty much ripping you guys off. Hardly seems fair, but I guess that's life. Looks like there might be a car buying vacation trip to the States in your future? Be sure to check the "gotchas" because I'm sure the government wants to protect the dealer infrastructure and is happy to do what they can to make it difficult...

    And I think I might have to temper what I said about car companies becoming more competitive in the UK... I just saw an advert for the Prius in the U.K.... checking in at a princely... hold on to your chair... £17,000... that's about $33K US.

    Say what you will about the state of America... but at least were not gouged by the car companies. Capitalism is, I think, alive and well in the car business here, with plenty of competitive pressure to keep prices in check.

    Cheers

    groovology
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    lynnkushnirlynnkushnir Member Posts: 15
    hey groove, purchasing a toyota in the u.s. for canadian transportation is not exactly going to germany for your mercedes and driving through europe on your way home. canadian prices just have not been adjusted to reflect their changing dollar and meanwhile, catch a good deal while you can.
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    ragrag Member Posts: 5
    Lynn,
    I believe the reason they are so fast is that there are 2 engines. The 6 cylinder gas engine has about 208 horsepower and the electric motor has about 72 HP. This is for the 4 WD-i models. Even with the extra weight of the batteries that is a lot of HP. When you hit the gas hard both motors kick in and give the HH a lot of acceleration. They are really fun to drive but all that speeding around hurts the mileage.
    Hope this helps.
    Richard
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    lynnkushnirlynnkushnir Member Posts: 15
    hey rich, thanks for advice, i'm no speed demon but 300hp is certainly better than 208hp, what would you say, 0-60 in ??? thanks again, lynn
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    The 2008 model is 270-hp, so there is no 300-hp HH unless Toyota has changed its spec. The '06 version is 268-hp.

    I saw the torque curve of our 2006 HH and I believe it applies to the '07 as well but not sure about the '08. In any case, maximum torque is achieved at around 1200+ RPM so the car will rocket off the starting line and push you into the seat.

    The '06 got 7.5 sec 0-60. Probably same for the '07. Edmund did a test on the '08, they will have data on the 0-60 run.

    A note of CAUTION on driving the HH. The car is very smooth and quiet and accelerates EXTREMELY quickly. You will hit 80-MPH before you realize it. My wife scared us to death twice when we first got our HH. We have learned to be careful with the gas pedal.

    If your HH comes with those cheap, soft and squishy Goodyear Integrity tires meant for minivan, it may actually spin a little or squeal a bit. If it comes with a good set of SUV tires, they will grip and get moving.

    A good set of SUV tires will significantly improve the handling of the HH.

    Hope you have a good purchase and enjoy your new HH!!!
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    erikperikp Member Posts: 3
    Regarding the "out of gas question"
    One answer from a dealer stated "don't do it" you will burn out the electric motors. I have since decided not to test this.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "A good set of SUV tires...."

    Methinks most owners/drivers of modern SUVs of this type, size, and weight class drive them in just the same way they would a regular passenger car. In which case a set of nice quiet and comfortable riding Bridgestone Turanzas would BEST suffice.

    "will significantly improve the handling of the HH."

    Only if most of your driving involves adverse roadbed circumstances which for the clear majority of us it does NOT.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Regarding the "out of gas question"
    One answer from a dealer stated "don't do it" you will burn out the electric motors. I have since decided not to test this."

    Pure bunk. The HSD will run out of juice and shut down the electric motors long before any potential overheat occurs.

    For the rear propulsion, the HSD will shut down the motors if they heat up. Hence the provision that the HH is not a "true" off-road vehicle - the AWD system will not engage for extensive periods.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ..on the new gasser Highlanders.

    The Ltd 4WD versions with all the options can run up to $43K apparently. A normal version without Navi ( $39700 ) or with Navi ( $41300 ) is exactly the same MSRP of the previous Gen HH.

    So here are the options when the new HH arrives.
    Do they keep the price similar as they normally do?
    Bump it a little?

    Both vehicles will have the same size and features inside and out. They both will have about the same HP. Performance? Probably the same or close. But the HH will get about 15-25% better FE depending on environment and usage.

    So which do you choose? Assuming both are priced at $41300 as 4WD Ltds with Navi but no RES.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Hey! We use the Bridgestone Turanzas on our Sienna van. It is still a softer tire but quiet and smooth, great for easy cruising AND it has 2-ply sidewall! So I mostly agree with you.

    The stock Goodyear Integrity that came with the '06 HH had single-ply sidewall. It was a puncture waiting to happen. A 4200-lb SUV on single-ply sidewall tires? Is Toyota stupid? If nothing else, I would change it to at least a double-ply sidewall tire, SUV or minivan or whatever.

    With the Integrity, our HH felt unstable and insecure to drive, at least to me. It leaned a lot on turns. It bounced, jiggled and rocked over imperfections on paved surface. It was also loud. Luckily, we lost an Integrity to a sidewall cut (see!?) and we desperately needed a replacement so the shop recommended SUV tires. We were pleasantly surprised by the improvements.

    The car is smooth, quiet and glues to the surface, very stable and a joy to drive. Being a farm work horse (truck, tractor) type, I was never into "handling". Work horses are strong and slow, they need no fancy handling. Our experience with the HH really opened my eyes.

    Good tires also mean higher safety margins in general, so there was no downside to getting rid of those Goodyear Integrity tires.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    I would pick the '08 HH. The '08 HH still has SULEV II rating, now tows 5000-lbs, gets real-life (Edmund) 28-MPG on ECON mode, and has those neat little meters to help drivers match power/speed to efficiency, something I would love to see in the '06 HH. Toyota sort of answered most of our wishes except for the I4 and the plug-in.

    Most impressive is the price stability. The '06 HH Ltd all decked out was $42K and the '08 is only $41K? That means I can probably get a minimum of $2K off righ off the bat and that knocks it down to $39K. On internet deals, may be another $1K off? So $38K for the '08 HH? Good deal.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Most impressive is the price stability. The '06 HH Ltd all decked out was $42K and the '08 is only $41K? That means I can probably get a minimum of $2K off righ off the bat and that knocks it down to $39K. On internet deals, may be another $1K off? So $38K for the '08 HH? Good deal.

    I don't know that for a fact yet it's only a supposition on my [part since they haven't announced the pricing on the new '08 HH yet. But I can't see ( hope it doesn't )it going dramatically higher, say up toward $45K. It would make the HH very very attractive if say the ICE were $41400 loaded up and the HH were say $42400 loaded up.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "So which do you choose? Assuming both are priced at $41300 as 4WD Ltds with Navi but no RES."

    Neither. At that price point, add 5K and buy a Lexus RH400. It will have more luxury and similar economy, and the resale will be better.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I wouldn't be surprised if the new RH400 with similar equipment wasn't right at $50K though.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "I wouldn't be surprised if the new RH400 with similar equipment wasn't right at $50K though."

    Hard to say, I am only responding with the prices I am seeing on these forums, which is around 46K. It might be more with the premium audio package, not sure about that.
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    pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    I have not made the full decision to go with a HH, so I have a question. I also currently own a Subaru Outback and have been very happy with it; but was looking for something a little ligher on the environment.

    I currently work from home and travel for sales calls etc. I also have a summer convertible that is driven during the week.

    My question is if it is OK for the Highlander Hybrid to sit for up to 3-4 days without being started? I have seen different posts to this question and wanted to get more ideas.

    Thanks!

    PS...I am looking at used models. Currently found a 2006 Limited with Nav and DVD, 11,000 miles for around $33k.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes even a couple of weeks up to a month isn't bad.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Towards end of last Winter, we had to leave our HH outside again for 8 days straight when we took a trip to visit families in Michigan. Don't remember exact temperature range but it was cold, little rain though. Came home, started it up and off we went.

    There are two batteries on the car. The little auxiliary battery that runs the accessories and then the large power-producing hybrid battery pack.

    The auxiliary battery is just like any other 12V battery, it will drain and run low eventually but it also provides a simple color-gauge that shows its status. We have learned to inspect that gauge each time we add gas. So far, the original unit is still fine.

    The hybrid pack knows to recharge itself using the gas engine whenever possible so it holds at least 50% (four blue bars on the '06) of charge.

    On rare occasions, we have managed to run the hybrid battery down to 25% of charge (two pink bars) and then parked the car for up to four days. It still started fine. This happened only after a very long electric run on dirt road to deplete the charge and then we turned off the engine before the gas engine could recharge. The easy work-around is to let the gas engine run after we stop so it recharges up to 50%. Yes, MPG will suffer on these rare occasions but it beats getting stuck out in the boonies :-).
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    pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    Thanks for the great info! OK, that makes it a lot easier to decide I guess!

    I hope to take a test drive of a pre-owned one this week. People seem to be so unhappy with the gas mileage, but from what Consumer Reports says- if you buy it solely for the MPG that is not a good enough reason. I would like it for the environmental effects too.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Hey! I like your views :). Many people ignore the emission rating part and only focus on the gas mileage. The whole thing was never just about gas mileage, it was about emission too.

    I also find the whole intense focus on the MPG and payback very strange. People pay $50K or $60K for a Mercedes and never think about payback. They pay $40K for Acura, for Lexus, for HUMMER too and never think about payback. When we are talking about $38K or $40K for a HH, suddenly, there is all sorts of analysis on payback and how it is worth it or not worth it. Why?

    Mercedes and Lexus have their luxuries and status, HUMMER puts out the macho image, so one pays for those. HH has a hybrid engine and so we pay for that. Acura has its drive system, Mercedes has its, HUMMER has nothing and HH has VDIM. Acura and Lexus and Mercedes have their luxury levels and HH has its own. In terms of performance, they are all about equal. So they are just cars with different engine configurations.

    One enjoys the luxuries and being "seen" while we HH owners enjoy the fun of gliding on stealth mode and the chance to eke out 28-MPG or 30-MPG from a 4000+ lb cars. To each his/her own :).

    So the whole focus on getting "money" back is baffling.

    Good luck with your research and hopefully, you can find one that works out for you.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Elegantly put. Nice :shades:
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    jdkahlerjdkahler Member Posts: 50
    Our 06 base fwd just passed 2 years and 22K - it sat for 10 weeks this winter in the dealer's body shop area while insurance companies argued over repairs after a fool driver made an illegal left in front of my wife ($8,000+ front end damage, no injury whatsoever) and had maybe a total of 10 miles over that time (most I'm guessing to drive it from the body shop to the detail shop down the road). Not a problem starting I was aware of (though the 12v battery had to be disconnected to do part the repairs so the vehicle had to re-learn driving patterns to bring the fuel efficiency back up, took a couple thousand miles).

    As you'll see in the Consumer Reports ratings, the HH rates highest (so far) for a number of reasons - including safety, and it proved itself worthy; we suspect that the emergency handling characteristics helped avoid a much more serious accident with a sudden stop needed in wet conditions. Since the repair we've made 2 long trips (Phila to S Carolina to Boston to Phila, and Phila to Upstate New York and back), and by calculating mileage the old fashioned way (gallons pumped and miles on the odometer) we were between 29 and 30 on the trips. Around town we get around 26, and part of the use is 1.2 miles or so one way to work most days (we're getting better at working in other trips or walking!), which is not the best to drive a hybrid for maximum mpg. The HH, even after extensive repair, is solid, comfortable, handles and drives extremely well (part of that SC trip was a 12 hour run - ouch! - that was comfortable and secure). We'd buy the HH again, once this one wears out in hopefully 10 years or so. It's the best vehicle I've ever owned and compares favorably with any I've driven, and sounds like you have a good deal. Enjoy!
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    mariezemarieze Member Posts: 2
    Hi everyone!

    I purchased a 2007 hh 4wd in June and love it. However, when the rear window is down while I am driving, it makes a sound that I can only describe as "wind vibration" that is almost deafening. It makes my ears want to pop. I spoke with a friend who says her 2005 highlander does the same thing. Have you experienced this? :(

    thanks!
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    nomorebenznomorebenz Member Posts: 109
    Completely normal. My Mercedes' have done that. Change the size of the opening, open another window etc. You're inside the beer bottle as someone is blowing across the opening.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Or, think of yourself as being inside a child's whistle with the cubic volume so high that the "whistle" sound is a subsonic PRESSURE wave.

    All of our old Ford country squire station wagons would do that unless you lowered the rear tailgate window slightly.

    Removing the reverse flow flap valve from the exhauster hidden in the bottom of the driver's side rear quarter panel will help reduce the sound volume.

    Adding two more exhausters, like in the bigger Toyota SUVs, will completely alleviate the problem but then the A/C will not adequately cool the interior on a HOT day. Too much pre-conditioned, COOLED, cabin airflow escaping via the larger rear exhauster openings.

    Catch 22.
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    montecristomontecristo Member Posts: 11
    Hello all. I have '07 HH Limited w/ Nav. Thanks to you all, I knew how to pulse and glide right off the bat. I"m getting about 27 to 28mpg in local suburb terrain/traffic. However, I'm only getting 24mpg on highway driving at around 75 to 80mph. But I do get 27mpg at 60 to 65mph.

    The only complaint I have is that the car is noisy. At 75mph, I hear wind whistle on all 4 sidewindows. I'm also hearing a lot road noise. I'm comparing to my '06 4-cyl camry and haven't had opportunity to compare/testdrive other competing SUVs. (i.e. 400h, pilot, etc.)

    Any of you had a chance to compare the noise level of HH to any other SUVs?
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Here are several methods.

    For the most comfortable and quiet ride install summer only bridgestone Turanza tires. Don't go overboard with 18" or higher rims, 17" will be perfect, 16" even better, more sidewall flex.

    There is a silicon grease, paste, in squeeze tube form that can be purchased at any NAPA store that can be used on the door sealing rubber weather stripping for better sealing and thereby to lessen the wind noise.

    But 4 spray cans of undercoating and after a thorough pressure washing use one can each on the fender well liners.

    Amazingly, your windshield wipers can be a major contributor to the wind noise level so I buy the new Bosch rubber "wing" shaped ones.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    As Wwest wrote, the tires can be problems.

    Our '06 HH cames with Goodyear Integrity, noisy as heck, soft and squishy and jiggled and rocked and made the car lean on curves.

    If your HH comes with these tires, do seriously consider changing them. If your HH is 100% on-road, Wwest's suggestion will work well. If you take your HH onto dirt tracks once in a while, check around for other SUV tires. Any good brand is better than the Integrity.

    We changed to Goodyear Fortera SA (Silent something...) and it has worked very well. Car is smooth, quiet and rock solid on turns and curves. We drive on dirt tracks often, about 35% of the time and they have held up well.
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    cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Last note: changing the tires may impact MPG. Heavier tires can bring down the MPG a tad. Not sure by how much. In our 06 HH, with the heavier SUV tires, the best we can do in normal speed limit gentle driving is 27 MPG per tank. If we slow down below speed limit (on city streets), we can get 28-MPG per tank.
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    montecristomontecristo Member Posts: 11
    wwest & cdptrap,

    Thanks for the advice. My '07 HH came with Michelin Energy tires. I wonder if silicon paste or aerodynamic windshield wipers would make noticeable difference though..

    I'm on paved road 100% and I'm very sensitive to noise. HH is dead quiet at below 40mph but becomes very noisy at highway speeds. I've driven '95 Saab 900, '97Acura Integra, '00Lexus ES300, '99Jeep Cherokee, '06BMW 525, and '07 camry at least 20,000miles each and I must say '07 HH is one of the more noisy after acura and cherokee.

    I checked Pilot site and it seems Pilot owners think highlanders are quieter. I wonder if Lexus RX400h makes significantly less noise. Someone please tell me no because otherwise I am going to regret for not considering 400h for $4,000 more...
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    mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings:

    I too have a 2007 HH Limited and noticed pronounced wind noise above 50mph. I've determined the wind noise is coming from either the roof rack cross bars or the rear spoiler. There is a way to remove the cross bars but I am reluctant to do so as I don't want to damage/marr the vehicle. The wind noise from the side windows is minimal as is the engine and road noise. Of course when the ICE is off and in motion, the car is very quiet indeed. I also have the Michelin Energy tires (LX4) which may be why there is very little road noise. Still, I am extremely pleased with the vehicle and getting an average of 28mpg confirms I made a good choice.

    I wonder if the 2008 Highlander has this same issue as the cross bars are now an option instead of being standard.

    Regards - M. J. McCloskey
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    lightminerlightminer Member Posts: 14
    If the noise is from the roofrack, try putting both bars together in the rearmost position. I think I've read that is what the Acura MDX people say to do to minimize noise. Try some different positions before removing them.
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    lightminerlightminer Member Posts: 14
    I'm 6 feet tall and was able to test an '08 - all three rows are just fine. I sat in the first passenger one, moved the back so there was about 3 inches in front of my knees, then did the same to the 2nd row, and the third row ended up with 2/3 inches as well! Plenty of room for 3rd row. Total redesign in that sense over previous Highlander.
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    rhrouserhrouse Member Posts: 2
    I echo this sentiment and HAVE THE EXACT SAME ISSUE!!!!!
    The design of this is totally flawed. and now it's going to cost me almost $2000 or not have air conditioner in a brand new car. This is completely unacceptable. Please let me know if any one else has had to replace the condenser in their highlander hybrid. my email address is rhrouse(at)gmail.com.

    Thanks, r
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    groovologygroovology Member Posts: 24
    Just got back from a 3 week trip to Europe, and it started up instantly. Not only that, the hybrid battery was nearly at full charge, so apparently self-discharge is not an issue...

    As for the gas mileage, I wish people would STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS!! Gas mileage in a hybrid- ANY hybrid - is HIGHLY dependent on driving style. When I drive our HiHy, I get 29-30mpg. When my wife drives it, she gets 25. Same for our Prius... when I drive it, I get 51 typically. When she drives it, she gets 43 or 45. I use pulse and glide, and coast whenever possible. She just drives, typically with the AC on all the time. :surprise:

    Even driving with complete disregard for gas mileage, a Highlander Hybrid still gets better gas mileage than the regular one, and pollutes a lot less. If you don't want to put a little effort into maximimizing your gas mileage, buy a Vespa or if you really want to complain about gas mileage, buy a Hummer, but stop complaining, please!

    Both the Prius and Highlander Hybrid are EXCEPTIONAL vehicles with INCREDIBLY HIGH quality. Save your breah if you want to piss and moan, the vast majority of owners are completely satisfied with their purchases and are completely thrilled with Toyota. I know I am.
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    bobbassbobbass Member Posts: 34
    This "punctured A/C condensor" problem has been discussed on an RX forum. After striking out trying to contact you directly and at the risk of violating the rules and regs of this terrific forum, here is a link that DOES pertain directly to your comment. Unfortunately there was less than a satisfactory resolution:

    Punctured A/C Condensor RX
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    jaredjojaredjo Member Posts: 5
    I would definitely stop complaining about gas mileage if I got 25. I would be ecstastic with 29-30. 21-22? Not so much...
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    montecristomontecristo Member Posts: 11
    It doesn't make sense that you're only getting 21-22. Even when I'm really hard on gas pedal, I still get 24. Have you tried having a dealer take a look?
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    If you are a long-term hybrid owner, our Senior Editor, John O'Dell, would love to hear from you! A short email with your maintenance experiences and concerns would be great. Please send to John at jodell@edmunds.com by close of business Wednesday, August 22, 2007. Be sure and include your Forums username.
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    joemizjoemiz Member Posts: 6
    Looking for advice and /or opinions on choice for new tires for 4WD HH.

    60% of miles are Arizona highway - posted speed limit 75 MPH.
    30% city traffic
    10% gravel/sandy roads
    No plans for snow driving, but concerned about water traction (for "rainy" season).

    My choices are:
    Bridgestone Deuler Alenza
    Goodyear Fortera
    Michelin Cross Terrain

    Thanks
    Joe
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    2tees2tees Member Posts: 3
    Check out the driver's side rear window. That's where windnoise is coming from my 2006 HH. Took it to the dealer. They said, "It's normal."

    Right!
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    For the most comfort and quietness go for Bridgestone Turanza summer tires.
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    poodlgalpoodlgal Member Posts: 13
    In addition to many of the items mentioned before, I wish Toyota would install block heaters as a standard feature. They improve mileage and avoid the hassle of explaining to the mechanics why anyone would want one! I've heard they come standard in Canada.
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    mpshoobmpshoob Member Posts: 3
    Just got back after eight days out of town. Found the battery dead in my HH '06 at the airport. I phoned the Toyota Dealer and the guy told me that the HH is usually okay for 5 to 7 days (Priuses maybe three), but no more than that. Anybody got suggestions on how to solve this problem? I'm kind of amazed that Toyota would put out an automobile (as much as I love this car) without solving this kind of flaw.
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    groovologygroovology Member Posts: 24
    I spent the last two weeks of July and the first week in August overseas. My HH was stored outside, and it was HOT here.

    Got home, stuck in the key, and it started right up. And the charge level indicator showed probably 80%...

    So what you are experiencing makes no sense to me... Anyone have any other experiences to report?

    Groovology
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    rhrouserhrouse Member Posts: 2
    Thanks. This makes me very sad. I live in fear now of puncturing it again. Apparently the 2008s have been redesigned to protect the condenser. Oh, well, I should never have bought a first model year.
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    stevegoldstevegold Member Posts: 185
    That's nonsense. I've had two problems like that with my 2004 Prius in 4 years. I must have left a light or something else on. I've gone as much as two months without using the car with no problem upon returning. Get a new dealer.
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    drimdrim Member Posts: 1
    To solve this problem find a new dealer. The dealer is giving you totally incorrect information. The battery does not go dead after 7 days of inactivity. Your battery should be good for much greater than than 8 weeks of inactivity.

    Toyota recommends running the vehicle for at least 30 minutes after 8 weeks of inactivity to recharge the small auxiliary battery and the main HV battery. (Toyota Technical Service bulletin #PD0116-05).

    Your dead battery is most likely due to a door left slightly ajar or some accessory or interior light left on which will run down the small aux battery until dead.

    This already happened to me once when I left one of the back passenger doors slightly ajar in my garage while away for 4 days. When I came home the vehicle was dead as the interior dome light stays on forever if a door is ajar while the vehicle is off. Note that the main HV battery is not dead - just the small aux 12 volt battery. However, the car will not start if the aux battery is discharged.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    which battery? The 12v can run down just like any other for the same reasons.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    So, you'd like to be paying 24/7 for power coming out of the wall plug vs the minor cost level extra fuel burned in the very few minutes/miles it take to warm the engine coolant to the same level as the block heater.

    Don't most block heaters only keep the engine coolant above ~40F...??

    Back in the sixties and seventies block heaters seemed to be fairly common in MT and AK where wintertime temperatures get so low that ATF and power stearing fluids become SLUSH.

    They had to be plugged in, generally, 24/7 since no one could predict when the vehicle would next be used/needed.

    Reminds me of being in Fairbanks in the wintertime and going to a movie with all the vehicles setting around on nearby streets and parking lots, unoccupied, but with the engine idling.
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