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As for the GS300, frankly I think Lexus could have done a much better job than they did, but it is still Japan's best selling entry by a wide margin, and is currently outselling Audi 2 to 1.
Sure this car can get up and move and it meets or beats the competition in most categories, but you have to want to drive the car in order to appreciate those amenities and I don't think I could sit in this car long enough to experience it without gagging. The BMW is not really that much better.
In order to appreciate these cars you must want to sit in the drivers seat and enjoy your surroundings - both inside (the cabin amenities and finish) and outside ( the engine performance, the tires gripping the curvy road, etc). Without feeling comfortable with both categories, one needs to keep shopping. All the cars are excellent performers with each having its own little performance niche. That is why I ultimately chose the Audi over Infinity and BMW.
Sure the Infinity and BMW's are going to get to the dance a little sooner than the Audi, but they also have have the uglier dates. (IMHO) :P
Beauty, after all, is in the eye of the beholder. BMW always gets it from both ends. Before the redesign, there were those who thought BMWs were lacking or dated. After the redesign there are those who think the new designs are lacking or ugly. The comments about i-drive from real owners do not seem to be the same garbage the journalists are spewing. The comments about the styling seem to be confined to the magazines.
The one thing the mags and the common folk agree on, is they drive like they are on rails.
Almost seems like an organized campaign to bring BMW down.
Even presumably non-biased Consumer Reports has a problem with it and they still consider the older version without I-drive as the benchmark for even newer cars. Can EVERY review in the car magazines be part of a conspiracy?
No conspiracy, surely. But are they really being honest by not mentioning that once the settings are inputted, you can forget about iDrive? They seem to imply that it is something you will need every time you drive the car. Not true.
We've only had the RL for 3 mos. now. No issues, except today we learned from the OnStar rep that there is some sort of hardware issue with our car in terms of getting OnStar to identify our car and to locate it via their satellite connection. Apparently we have to go back to Rizza to address this problem. It's not a major issue, but something we'll have to deal with when we are in Chicago in the next couple months.
Take care and best regards.
"Is It Necessary?"
For something this complex and central to the car, if the answer to this question is
"No, it's not necessary," then I would suggest that it is mostly just technology for technology's sake.
I want to drive my car. Not interface with it.
It's not a big deal, in fact it gives you more customizable options. As with anything "new", there's a learning curve. Moreover, there's separate push buttons/dials for radio station scan, volume, fan speed, temperature (L and R), etc.
Manual controls for A/C temp, blower speed and the audio system are provided on the dash for fast, convenient changes. No need to even use the iDrive.
It's interesting that those who bad-mouth the iDrive seem to have very little experience or understanding of the system or how it can be used to enhance the driving experience. Too bad.... they don't know what they're missing!
Martin
BTW, what is up with the new Acura RL? I used to think they were the Plain-Jane looking car that was overpriced a few years ago. I saw a few on the road recently and all I can think is "What a nothing looking design". I hope the car drives really, really nice and it has a great looking interior because from the outside, it's really NOTHING to look at. I agree with you 100% on the M35. That was my second choice. It is a really, really fast car. For some, that's the most important thing. And, it does give a lot of bang for the buck. I just thought it was a lot more expensive price to pay for the exact same engine that one can buy in the G35 for a whole lot less. At least the new A6 has some new technology to it, like the FSI injection and all the tech gadgets...like a real NAV system now and Advanced Key. Also, if you don't look closely, the M35 doesn' t really look all that much different from the outside than a G35 sedan...especially from the front (grille). Plus, living in Florida, I feel comfortable driving the Quattro All Wheel Drive in rainy weather and like the fact it comes standard as for now. If you go into an Infiniti dealer in my area, good luck finding an AWD version. The salesmen kind of look at you funny if you ask for one saying it's Florida...no snow here.
The media is reporting inaccurate information about iDrive in an attempt to bring BMW down.
"Too much drive time spent not looking at the road to perform routine functions, like changing a radio station." Motor Trend, March, 2005. This is such a load of crap. You input your favorite radio stations with iDrive in your garage when you first get your car. After that you just press a button on the steering wheel while driving to change the station. IDrive is not a hazard that takes your attention away from the road. You do not use it when driving.
You better face it. Not only is iDrive here to stay but as all cars get more and more sophisticated, they will all have some variation of iDrive. Lexus can hold out only so long.
That's fine if you never drive out of town. Suppose you take a road trip or vacation even 100 miles away. You find some radio stations you like on the way, or at your destination. How many manipulations do you have to go through to set your iDrive to one or more of those stations, and is it a complicated enough procedure that it could be distracting? And then when you get back home, you have to do it again.
The only annoying thing about it to me is having to look at that huge iDrive thing on the dash all the time.
It would be nice if they could make the iDrive optional on the 5 as they did for the 3. They can then come out with hidden buttons like the Lexus GS. If you don't want nav. you don't get iDrive.
Incorrect. I have an '03 530 and I'm able to adjust the speed volume of my radio with a couple of button clicks, no need for iDrive.
I just wish that ugly iDrive thing on the dash wasn't so prominent.
For routine warranty work on your RL, you might contact Barker Honda and see what they say. For OnStar and things that Honda doesn't have, you probably would have to go up to Rizza.
I do agree that these types of interfaces are here to stay. And I'm convinced that these interfaces make sense AS LONG AS YOUR CAR COMES WITH A NAVIGATION SYSTEM.
However, if the car doesn't have navigation, i-Drive, MMI, COMAND and other interface dials add unnecessary complexity, IMO. The functions they control can be managed more effectively the "old way." Same deal with these big display screens, like you get in several models with or without navigation. If you don't have navigation, these screens are also unnecessary.
Okay, I'm done. Hope you guys are too.
Take care.
Maybe ego and income and education-driven???? If you've invested the time to master a system and have embedded it into your driving lifestyle, then I can see how people argue so strongly, while others who have not will feel strongly the other way.
Not sure if the cost of the technology will come down enough, but I somewhat shudder to think that these types of systems will end up in lower end, entry-level cars. It does take a certain level of sophistication to master them, and I've argued before that with people already eating, phoning, multi-tasking behind the wheel, that these interfaces can be a safety hazard in the wrong hands.
Those who are posting on these forums are likely more educated, and we probably don't represent the "typical" driver (whatever that means). I accept that interfaces are here to stay, but I'm not sure if I want every 16 or 90-year old out there fiddling with them while they try to stay in their lane of travel.
That is a scary thought to me. Especially when there are no standards for consistency from brand to brand. I respect Lexus for holding out, and I hope they are successful.
With each passing year, our driving behaviors are also being monitored through black box data recorders and other intrusive wireless/GPS devices that are pre-installed in cars. One darker consequence of "advanced" technology is that we will be giving up more of our personal freedoms so that 3rd parties can track our driving patterns and lifestyles. Of course, interfaces like i-Drive aren't causing this, but I still see it as part of a larger pattern of companies pushing the envelope with technology that has less and less to do with the daily business of driving a car.
Don't we all invest time to learn a new vehicle? Don't we want the operation of the car to be by reflex. This includes learning the limits of the vehicle, the placements of the controls, the feel of the brakes and gas etc.
I like having the control of the car in one place and being able to customize it. But it's part of the learning process.
I do agree there is no consistency. To their credit, the Germans are headed down the same path, even though their implementations are different. Family has a Lexus, while I respect the product the first time I drove the car, I needed to be shown the fundamentals, radio, climate control etc. These functions are not intuitive on any vehicle.
If people really want to master their cars, they just might have to give up eating lunch while driving. :shades:
I had a five-year lease on a charcoal black '00 Audi A6 2.7t. I loved it for the time I had it, although I got a bit tired of it at the end of the lease. It was time to get some more excitement into my drive. So, I went to my Audi dealer several times to test drive two S4 sedans, one S4 Cabriolet, and a new A6 4.2. By the way, the S4 sedans were the '04 versions. I loved all, but the A6 felt oddly disconnected from the road. It could've been that the interior was a boring gray, but my son practically fell asleep in the car, and he loves Audi. It was probably the gray, now that I think about it. But, we were really sold on the S4 Cabriolet. In fact, it's sitting in my garage right now. I bought it. Sprint Blue over Silver Nappa Leather w/ Black Piping. I love it- it's absolutely gorgeous! Every other Audi owner looks, nods, smiles, gives me the thumbs-up, or waves. BMW and Mercedes drivers have looks of either envy or hidden admiration, and right when I glance at them they look away, embarrassed. It's hard for people not to look at this car, with the flashier color and all. The V8 sounds so good... and it's so fast. It's probably a much more satisfying car to own than any M3 Convertible, also considering the S4 is a much better value with more features. It's my favorite car. Ever.
If you are here reading this, then you have achieved the level it takes to use iDrive.
Seriously? Was it a '98-03 RX300? The first RX (despite the fact that there's one in my garage) is probably Lexus' worst interior design, and the only one I can think of where it might be possible that things like climate and audio wouldnt be immediately obvious. I think thats mostly due to it being the first Lexus designed around a large integrated screen, even on versions without NAV. All of their other designs, even other early NAV versions, are still pretty as intuitive as you can get. If you can look at the following from a '99 LS400 with NAV and cant figure out how to do the basics like adjust the climate or volume.. then I dont know what to say.
If you drive out of town you may use the iDrive 'Autoscan' function each time you loose good tunnnig. Or the manual searching scan. Each is only two steps into iDrive, which you can do 'by hart' with the main iDrive button at the center console, next to the gear stick, once you has done it a few times. Once set it, you jump from a station to the next with the wheel button.
By the way, most presettings made by way of iDrive keep recorded in your own start key. In my case, that means that my wife and me don't make more arguments about radio station preset favourites, or climate control settings for the driver seat, when we change seats for driving.
Best regards,
José
Although I hope I could drive virtually any car, there was a time when driving an unfamiliar car or another brand was about a 60 second transition.
Imagine if the stalks on the steering column on brand A controlled the turn signals with the right stalk and then on brand B the left stalk controlled the signals (and so on).
The increased complexity has yet to be masked by simplicity, although it is my believe that iDrive and MMI, etc. are actually intended to do just that. The issue I have is the lack of similarity between these systems. On my previous car, I had a tiptronic transmission. If you don't know, the tip upshifts when you push the lever and downshifts when you pull it. BMW is opposite, Chrylsers used to require side to side "slapping" for the up and down shift. Imagine if all manual transmissions did not offer the familiar "H" pattern for the 1 - 4 shift and ditto for the position of 5 and 6th gears.
Much as "they" would hate it, it just seems to me that certain controls (and we could probably quickly identify them) should be standardized across manufacturers. Plenty of room would still exist for the individuality and creativity of the designers and engineers.
I visited the BMW store here in Cincinnati yesterday for the debut of the new 3's.
I met a person there, a college graduate no less, who said his sole job was to deliver new cars to customers and train them to use the various systems on the cars. He said delivering a BMW 7 series is a multi-hour undertaking because there are so many menus and screens in iDrive. He also said that once you know the system it IS intuitive.
But this is telling that a dealership that sells 1,000+ new BMW's per year (they claim they are the largest in Ohio) needs a full time person to deliver the cars. It is also probably a sure fire way to make customers less unhappy with the new technology in these cars. He must deliver an average of 4 cars per day 6 days per week.
Sign of the times.
Every car walkthrough I've ever had takes about 30 minutes if not more. My mother learned how to use a computer and she can learn i-drive. Of course, you either have to learn the menu or learn the buttons. Try going 60+ in the dark and figuring out hordes of unfamiliar buttons.
Seems like we all mastered Edmunds, we can also learn the menus on i-drive.
Isn't buying the A6, then, just paying a higher price for the same engine in the A4? Obviously, you are getting a lot more car for the money (A6 over A4, M over G).
"Also, if you don't look closely, the M35 doesn' t really look all that much different from the outside than a G35 sedan...especially from the front (grille)."
I would say that the A4 and the A6 share at least as many styling cues as the G and the M do. Grille especially.
Agreed. If engine sharing across model lines was a crime, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, MB, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, and Jaguar would ALL have to be thrown in jail.
Rich...If your neighbor stops you in the driveway and infers your car is a :lemon: . You wouldn't care?
Your moniker implies otherwise.