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BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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Comments
regards,
kyfdx
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$512 1st payment
$625 acquisition fee
$667 cap cost reduction
$100 tax on CCR and ACQ.fee
That leaves about $600 more dollars for registration, etc.. Seems like that may be about $300 too high... I bet there is some padding in there.. Maybe a little pure profit from a "document fee", or something like that...
It appears that it doesn't include a security deposit, or the money factor would be .0020...
Overall, this looks like a great lease, with maybe only $300 of extras.. but, considering the great purchase price, I wouldn't quibble, but I would structure it a little differently..
$48,545 MSRP
$40,656 selling price
$41,281 Cap cost (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
Residual 58% for 3yr/36K
MF .0020 (base rate with security deposit)
Payment: $504/mo.+tax = $543/mo.
Due at signing: 1st pymt ($543), security deposit ($550), Registration and other fees ($300? or their $600). Total: $1400-$1700. Plus you'll receive the $550 security deposit back at the end of the lease..
Comparison to their structure: $800 less upfront + $550 back at end of lease
36 pymts. X $26/mo.higher.. $1350 minus $936 = $414 (more money in your pocket).
Restructuring the lease that way saves you about $400 over the life of the lease, and gives them the exact same gross profit..
It is a great deal, either way... If you can get a look at the fee breakdown, and pull another $200-$300 out of the deal, so much the better..
regards,
kyfdx
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Thank you for the detail and breakdown, it sheds light on some questions I have been thinking about. I will try to have them adjust the Base MF to include security deposit, wish me luck I am going to go into the dealership hopefully tommorrow!
The car you are trading is in your name, but the car you are leasing will be purchased by the leasing bank.
Fortunately, tax is fairly low on leases in NJ.. Just 6% of the depreciation portion of the lease. But, I doubt you'll get any offset. You might call your local DMV for clarification, though.
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks,
"Our company policy is to charge $825 for the lease acquisition fee. $625 of it goes to BMW Financial Services. $200 goes to our dealership's finance department for processing the paperwork for you. This is probably where you found the $200-$300 discrepancy in your calculations. This is non-negotiable. If you wish to place a refundable security deposit, then you can waive the rate-adder on the money factor from .00215 to .00200. The security deposit will be $550. So, you add $2500 and $550 and your total drive-off then becomes $3050. This lowers your monthly payment to $500.65 including tax."
* After asking them to lower base MF/add the secuirty deposit, I received this reply...
"With $2500 TOTAL DRIVE-OFF (including refundable security deposit of $550, so really, you're paying $1950 drive-off before security deposit), your monthly payments are $480.31 + tax = $517.53 including tax for 3 year lease at 12000 miles per year on approved credit. This is figured at a money factor of .00200. Cap cost is still at 40655.58. Residual is still at 58% = 28156.10."
What do you think? Thanks again...
- J
It is a good selling price.. and they are using the base money factor.. I'm not going to blow a good deal over $200..
If it were me, I'd ask them for $1500 drive off, including a security deposit. It shouldn't matter to them, as they'll just add the $1000 into the cap cost.. That will add almost exactly $32/mo to the payment, including tax..
Result: $1500 drive-off.. Payment of $550/mo..
You have done really well, and you have a dealership that doesn't play with the numbers, every time you ask for something.. IF this is the car you want, I'd jump on it.. That is a lot of car for $550/mo.
regards,
kyfdx
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The deal ended up exactly as you suggested, I planned to put zero down but with the trade (they gave me exactly Blue Book Value) I put $600 of it into the drive off, $550 into the security deposit and the rest ($350) into DMV, Registration Fees for a drive-off of $1500 and payment of $548/month.
It was great - 8k off sticker and then he broke it down on the screen exactly as you described, even to the point that he explained that the dealership loss 900 on the deal...included Z4 mats, hats and Z4 license plate frames.
Thank you so much again for all your help, you rock man - rock!
I also heard some brand new lines for the first time -
a) BMW needs them to sell the vehicle for a $2000 profit - it's a BMW-established guideline
b) BMW encourages them to move cars that are already "in inventory" - if they have to order one, they don't get credit from the factory for selling the car, or something like that
They have a "wholesale" price of $37,585 for the car (z4 3.0i), which is below Edmunds's number of $37,765, on the document I was giving, listing invoice prices for everything else correctly (according to edmunds).
Anyway, the deal:
z4 3.0, msrp $44,200
- premium
- heated seats
+ dest of $695 + MACO $345 + Training Service Fee $180 = total MSRP $44,895. They quoted me $38,512 for the car, or $1358 or so off sticker (minus the fees), if my math is right.
Whadayathink? I can get this car somewhere else for $1500 over invoice somewhere else, but I haven't called back to clarify whether or not it includes the $525 of junk fees.
It sounds like you had a great dealer...
Enjoy your new car..
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MACO is a regional advertising charge.. It is legitimate.. If you are going to negotiate from invoice, that is part of it..
Are you paying $38,512 + other fees? Or is the $38,512 the entire price of the car, plus taxes only?
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm going to lease, and I forgot to mention that they've bumped me an extra .0003 above the base rate "so the finance manager can make some money".
The sales guy says he is below the minimum commission threshold here and has nothing to hide. He has been a pretty straight shooter in the past; I was just surprised to hear about the extra fees.
Oh, and for what it's worth, he says he had a factory rep in recently (last week?) that says that due to production cuts in the z4, they won't have to go to $6500 for the rebate, and that last year the highest the rebate ever got was $4500, so he thinks the chances are low of an increase. He didn't comment (partly because I didn't ask him) about the probability of the $4500 extending into July.
Also, any idea what the absolute lowest price for absolute base, with zero options, of the 2.5 is? And, what's the best way to buy one?
If you join Costco, their auto program will let you get a z4 for $1500 over invoice, minus the $2500 incentive, from any dealer in their network. That's $1000 under invoice, plus destination of $695 and a $345 MACO fee, as quoted by my dealer, or $31,435. The 3.0 would be $35,805, but will have more equipment on it. I'd use these numbers as an absolute top end when negotiating, unless getting to the closest costco-affiliated dealership doesn't work out for you. People are doing better than $1500 over invoice (adjusted for the incentives); look at other recent deals on this forum.
Be careful with totally base, though; it may be hard to re-sell. Every BMW i've ever looked at has had at least the premium package. And the 2.5 has fewer standard features than the 3.0, so options cost out a bit differently. Either way, totally base means manual (not smg) transmission and manual top, among other things.
I've been reading all of the posts in this forum for a few days now. I'm really impressed with the information sharing and the great advice from contributors such as kyfdx. I am now in need of some advice and look forward to reading any feedback :-)
My wife and I are getting ready to buy our first car together (2.5i Z4). This will also be the first car I've ever been responsible for negotiating the price for. So I've been doing my homework to help ensure we get the best price possible.
We have narrowed the field down to three options below. With the $2500 incentives, should I be able to get one of these for $1000 OR LESS dealer profit (Invoice - $2500 +$1000)? I've seen other posts that say as much, but wasn't sure since we are now in summer months and incentives have been going on for a while. I will trade-in a Ford Ranger I expect to get $6K for based on discussions/appraisals with dealers.
Car 1:
Z4 2.5i Automatic
Toledo Blue/Beige Leather/Wood Trim
Options: Automatic, Premium Package, Heated Seats, Xenon, Leather Seats
MSRP: $42,295
Invoice: $38,755
Car 2:
Z4 2.5i Automatic
Black/Beige Leather/Wood Trim
Options: Automatic, Premium Pack, Sport Pack, Heated Seats, Xenon, Leather
MSRP: $42,895
Invoice: $39,305
Car 3: (Preferred as would be less expensive and don't care much a/b Sport Pkg)
4 2.5i Automatic
Toledo Blue/Beige Leather/Aluminum Trim
Options: Automatic, Premium Pack, Heated Seats, Leather
MSRP: $41,595
Invoice: $38,120
Also, one dealer told me they could have a car sent to their lot from Illinois (I'm in Ohio) but it would be an additional $800. Is this negotiable?
I appreciate any and all feedback I get and WILL BE SURE TO SHARE the results of our negotiation with the forum.
Thanks,
Jon K.
aka
juannok
Z4s don't really get much of a summer premium, because they obviously aren't selling that well.. (ergo, the incentives).
I'd try to find a car that is already at the dealer, rather than have them swap.. You can almost always get a better deal on what is in stock..
I like the sport package, but it does give you bigger, more expensive tires, etc.. So, if you don't need it, pick one without it... You'll save money in the long and short run.. Is this going to be a 4-season car? You'll need winter tires to drive it in Ohio all year round..
Don't be surprised if you get low-balled on your trade.. Can't say that a BMW dealer will be excited about taking a Ranger.. If you are really looking at $6K, and they won't come close, then sell it yourself.. Small pickups sell fast privately, if they are priced right..
Also, make sure that all but tax and license is included in any price they offer.. They can easily hit you with $500 of bogus crap after the fact.. (floor mats?).
Financing? Get that arranged before negotiating.. then, if they can beat your rate, take it..
regards,
kyfdx
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I had negotiated a reasonable deal and then got hit with an $825 "bank fee" and another $375 documentation fee, plus $85 for floor mats. So the deal is $38,500 plus junk = $39,785, with only the first month's payment for drive-off. This is on a 3.0 with a MSRP of about $45k.
However, the base fee from BMWFS is $625.. they are bumping it $200 for extra profit..
And, as you've found, it doesn't matter what price you negotiate, if it doesn't include all fees and options...
$375 doc fee is indeed "junk".. floormats aren't standard.. funny how they didn't mention that, huh?
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------------------
I know that the $4500 incentive on Z4 continues on, or let's say I know it is on till end of June. Anyone has any info. on whether it will continue on or stop after June? And, any info. on when it may turn to $6500?
Thanks,
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only options are heated seats. MSRP 43,045.00 INVOICE $39,615.00
NET INVOICE WITH DEALER INCENTIVE $35,115.00
best I've been able to get so far on a cash deal is $36,915.00
dealer says that they have to make $1800 over invoice. I think there is still some room considering that the car is kind of odd.....no options except heated seats....and I don't think maldives blue metallic is the most desirable color (some feedback on that would be nice too)
should I hold out for $36k or less or is this the best it will get?
By BMW:
Special Lease Offer
Build Your BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster
$359 First month’s payment
$2,500 Down payment
$400 Security Deposit
$3,259 Cash due at signing
Dealer's stock:
MSRP: $38,220
Stock: 051125
Color: JET BLACK
Interior: BLACK LEATHERETT
OPTIONS
Automatic transmission, fully automatic soft top, heated front seats, xenon headlights
you think the dealer will let me lease it for the same price? only differences are auto top, heated seats and xenon headlights.!!
any advise will greatly appreciated.
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The MSRP on the unit you are considering is about $2K more than the advertised example.. To get the same payment as the advertised unit, they would need to discount it $2000 from MSRP, in addition to the $2500 incentive and the $2500 cap cost reduction.. That seems reasonable..
Remember.. this only allows 10K mi./yr.
If you don't make the $2500 cap cost reduction (and, I wouldn't), the lease price changes to $425/mo.
regards,
kyfdx
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Edmunds shows this package typically going for $44,535. After the $4500 incentive is applied, the final price should be around $40,000. Does this sound about right? Anyone have a recent experience with a similar package.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Joe
Do these numbers look accurate to anyone:
The 2.5 with automatic transmission, heated seats, automatic power soft top & destination charge for $34,240. Is that doable???
Now, since i plan to lease it for 36 mths:
MF: .0020
Residual: 59%
NJ Tax: 6%
Term: 36
No down payment....equal mthly payment of $414.51
Am i missing anything? Did i do everything correct? Will a dealer have a problem with these numbers? And finally...how much am i suppost to come up with when closing the deal?
BTW, for anyone in the north east coast, have you had problems driving the Z4 in the winter (snow,etc.)?
Thank you all for any help!
@.
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Thanks.
However, considering the $2500 dealer cash incentive on the Z4 2.5 (and even if it has expired, the dealer probably received it), you should be able to get a selling price of around $33K..
At $33K, I get a payment of $412/mo. plus tax..
That is with 1st payment, security deposit and acquisition fee upfront...
regards,
kyfdx
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Edmunds shows this package typically going for $44,535. After the $4500 incentive is applied, the final price should be around $40,000. Does this sound about right? Anyone have a recent experience with a similar package.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Joe
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I use some lease Excel spreadsheet that i got from the internet. $424.89 includes the tax. I guess something is off on that spreadsheet. Tried it with two different spreadsheets.
Cost of Car $34,240.00
Money Factor 0.0200%
Residual 59.000%
Tax 6.000%
Term 36.00
Actual Lease $14,038.40
Residual Value $20,201.60
Down Payment Mthly DepFee Fin.Charg Tax Total
$0.00 $389.96 $10.89 $24.05 $424.89
$1,500.00 $348.29 $10.89 $21.55 $380.73
$5,000.00 $251.07 $10.89 $15.72 $277.67
$7,500.00 $181.62 $10.89 $11.55 $204.06
$10,000.00 $112.18 $10.89 $7.38 $130.45
Thanks for your help.
1) Residual % is figured on MSRP.. 59% of $37520 is $22136.80
2) The finance charge portion of the lease payment runs about $100/mo..
You can refer back to my earlier post for a rough estimate on what the payments should be..
regards,
kyfdx
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Well, I just got the Consumers' Union pricing info this morning, and it coincides pretty well with Edmund's.
It looks like the dealer's costs run like this:
Base 3.0L vehicle (includes $4500 incentive)...................$33,960
SMG...............................................................................1,425
Premium Pckg.................................................................2,185
Sport Pckg.......................................................................1090
Sport seats........................................................................410
Metallic paint......................................................................430
Total.............................................................................$39,500
I've got an initial offer now for a titanium/black with all of the above (except the sports seats) plus xenon lights ($635) and heated front seats ($455), which I really don't want, for $42,300.
What do you think?
Best regards,
Joe
Anything more than that seems to be too much...
If the dealer cost is $39,500, I want to be at $41K or less....
regards,
kyfdx
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Interestingly, I just got another initial offer but w/o SMG and w/o xenon of $39,300, which is $1,610 above dealer's cost. $41,000 does sound about right for the first vehicle.
Best regards,
Joe
Here's some additional advice to those who live in the southeast. Dealers there are consistently high. One dealership in Roanoke, VA quoted me the MSRP: $48,500. Another in Winston-Salem, NC quoted $45,949 (included sports seats and driver's fee for bringing it up from Florida). I had precisely the same experience when buying two brand new Toyotas in 2003. The local VA dealer was $5,000 high on each car. I saved $10,000 by merely buying the cars in NJ! Competition is a consumer's best friend.
Again, thanks for your help and advice.
Best regards,
Joe
I'm sure you'll enjoy your new car.. The hard part is over... now you get to drive it..
regards,
kyfdx
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kyfdx, please advise. Thank you all for you help.
For example... a new '05 Z4 3.0 that has an MSRP of $48K, can be bought for under $41K... (I'm just guessing that would be a comparable price to the one you are looking at).
So... I'm going to direct you to this thread.. Real World Trade-In Values
List as much detail as you can about the car.... Follow the template at the bottom of the thread.. Be sure to tell them that you are considering buying the car from a private party, and give them your city/state.. It might take a couple of days, but at least you'll get a "real" number... based on what dealers are buying the car for at auction..
Then, you'll have to decide if the car is a good value, compared to what else you can buy for the low $30Ks...
regards,
kyfdx
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I priced the car using Edmunds TMV and Kelley Blue Book - there seems to be ~1k difference in price, so you are right in that a good value can be tricky to determine.
I was wondering if kyfdx or someone else could tell me if
(1) its worth using these brokers that claim to get your car at wholesale prices? Have people got any good deals using their services? Any loopholes?
I am looking to buy a used Z4 (2.5 would do for me with atleast the convenience package) and am located in SF, CA. I see reasonably optioned 2003 Z4 2.5's with low miles (15-20K) going for between 26K-30K.
(2) Also, since 2003 was the first year of the model would it be recommended to go for the 2004 instead which probably has the tweaks to remove annoying features in the 2003 year model? The problem I see with the 2004 models as kyfdx pointed out earlier is that will all these rebates its worth shelling out 4K more for a brand new car. Any opinions?
Thanks in advance for your advice.