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Secondly, I believe your statement If you don't skip this vehicle for that reason, you aren't human is a bit strong. If it was so serious, why was it still awarded 5 stars?
Here in North Texas (and I suspect most everywhere else), a major cause of physical injury in automobile accidents is the inattentive (or frequently, drunk!) driver who slams into the up-until-then accident survivors and good samaritans trying to aid them after the initial dust has settled.
By far, the best thing to do is to avoid the accident in any way possible. The point here is that, if the people in the vehicle were wearing there seat belts, the vehicle still would have protected them.
Having said all that, I will acknowledge that the laws, highway safety improvements, and vehicle safety improvements to protect even those numbskulls who refuse to reasonably protect themselves account for the fact that the annual highway death toll in the U.S. is almost exactly what it was in the 1960's (about 44,000 per year). That despite the fact that the number of vehicles on the roadways and, even more so, the number of highway miles driven have increased by at least one order of magnitude.
I also agree with those who asserted that Honda has undoubtedly already been trying to identify and rectify this potential problem if there is any reasonable way to do so.
Nothing against the Ody...which is a very good and safe van. You just can't have doors flying open in a collision is all.
question: if they ran another side impact crash test against another '05 ODY and the door didn't open, what would you conclude?
You guys don't want to answer my questions...but I'll go ahead and answer yours.
I would conclude that sometimes the Ody doors open during a side impact collision and sometimes they don't. If I was Honda the first thing I would do is crash test about 5-10 more Odys. Since they probably did that and we have not heard the results... I would conclude that there is a problem with the doors coming open in a crash and they are working on it.
i also suspect it still earned the 5-star rating because the testers examined the video, accelerometer data, points of contact with dummy body parts and structure, looked at the integrity of the doors and pillars, etc and concluded the interior space wasn't compromised, the dummy body parts made contact with the curtains and stayed where they were supposed to, etc.
i didn't know i was supposed to answer your question. i think this test result, in the context of everything else that did or didn't happen wouldn't sway me from purchasing an '05. quite the contrary - as i did mention, the side airbags and curtains would encourage me to purchase one.
also - in addition to the side airbags in the front, and the side curtains for the passengers in row 2 and 3, the standard '05 has the 4-wheel disc brakes with ABS, traction control and vehicle stability control (all standard equipment). in addition to being massive and having a wide wheel base, my '03 has very excellent handling characteristics and very excellent power on demand which i'm sure is true of the '05.
personally, i would feel safer in this vehicle with my entire family than any other mini-van - but that is just me and i'm an ody owner, so its likely i'm inclinded to believe this anyway...that is why i purchased an '03 to begin with. in my opinion, the '05 vehicle is safer than the '03 so there you have my response.
that said, some things i definitely appreciated about the MPV which i consider safety related (and i drove several before my purchase), i liked the turning radius and dimensions of the vehicle, the road feel and steering response, driver position, and very good visability.
A controlled labratory test of ramming something hard into the side of an Ody is quite different than what a real world experience might be.Where there are many many variables outside of what is offered in the labratory test (just 2 variables...the minivan and a ramming pole)
Agree with your points...would not let the door issue stop me from buying an Ody if I really wanted one. I do think all the standard saftey features on the 05 Ody was a smart move. The Ody is a very nice and extremely safe van...just make it a wee bit safer by fixing that door.
[answer:]I would conclude that sometimes the Ody doors open during a side impact collision and sometimes they don't.
Well said!!! LOL
"The side crash test represents an intersection-type collision with a 3,015 pound barrier moving at 38.5 mph into a standing vehicle."
This is a pretty slow speed and a light vehicle (after all, doesn't the Odyssey weight about 4500 pounds?). More importantly, it's not being struck by an SUV (a test now being conducted by NHTSA on other cars). I'm curious to see the results of that test when it is done (I would guess it will be done in the next 3 months).
My conclusion - side-BODY airbags should be in this vehicle in row 2 and 3 (SHAME ON HONDA - Mercedes has them). Also, the safety cage is not strong enough (as evidenced by the fact that the structure/cage didn't perform well in previous Odyssey models and especially given the weight and speed above in the side-impact test).
I realize I'm digging in quite a bit on details, but everything I'm bringing up will be standard in cars in the next couple years. These tests will force it to happen.
I took all the data for the Odyssey, Passat (my car) and leading cars with SAB, Avalon, Accord, etc.- put them into Excell and graphed the result. Try it. Nothing beats a minivan for safety. The Odyssey has the best test scores.
Also see the Insurance Inststute for Highway Safety website for a PDF on medical costs for injuries in real-world crashes. The previous generation Ody was outstanding. I like the Sienna more for its style, and fear the Honda "road noise" problem... but safety? Odyssey.
Ken
In the June 2004 C & D minivan comparo using the 2004 Ody, the g-numbers are:
0.71/0.73/0.76/0/76/0.75 for DGC/Freestar/Ody/Quest/Sienna, which supports the better handling of the Japanese models. The higher the number, the better. The 2005 Ody should be at least as good as the 2004.
You will be outnumbered by the number of cop cars and the helicopter above. We are entertained often by such real live scenes on TV on CA highways.
The strategy is to get "heroes or rabbits" who are prepared to be your bait for the cops ahead while speeding.
Still, it's something they should and probably have already fixed.
And, yeah...I'll still take the Odyssey over a MPV in a serious crash.
As far as I'm concerned I'll take my chances with a vehicle that at the very least feels more nimble, has more standard safety features, puts less stress on my body in a crash according to this site's listed data, and gets a 5 star rating vs a 4 star rating (Sienna) where it counts - driver side frontal impact.
Could my door somehow manage to pop-open even when locked in a crash? And then might I somehow be ejected even though I am wearing a three point seat-belt (available in any seat)? Perhaps.....but I seriously doubt it. There is worrying about safety and then there is obsessing over it. If this one test result bothers you, then don't buy the car because you will have it in the back of your mind forever. But plenty of freaky things have happened in individual tests that never ever happen again.
Has the Odyssey automatic transmission that has been plaqued with problems been changed? :sick:
FWIW, the Honda feels "sportier" than the Sienna with less power assist on the steering and firmer ride, but I can't imagine a real car enthusiast would find much to be excited about in either from a handling perspective. Big 4400 lbs.+ boxes just don't handle better than "inoffensive", which is better than SUVs of comparable size can say at least.
but seriously, you got this semantic differential scale of 0->5stars. ultimately their tests come down to some form of weighting / mapping, biased no doubt from subtle objective vs. subjective criteria.
stated another way, perhaps (?) no two crashes are completely identical, so the same model vehicle crashed twice *might* (i'm not sure the extent) receive slightly different scores along those objective and subjective criteria... which when mapped to the 0->5star scale differ from test to test.
they are crash testing vehicles using video and accelerometer data of people positioned dummies and aligned subject car and test apparatus, not statistically sampling large N bolts (for example) in some destructive tensile testing machine.
In minivans, the winner is obvious(Ody) from the numerous accollades/awards from different independent organizations.
As for the DGX minivans being the sales leader, this has been gone over in other boards before and there are some simple reasons for that. Minivans are THE bread and butter of Dodge's business as far as automobiles. Much more of their production is geared towards minivans than that of Honda or Toyota. I don't see Dodge effectively competing in the 4 door passenger sedan market. Meanwhile, Accord and Camry are right at the top. Honda and Toyota are busy with things besides minivans. D/C MUST have the minivan market. Besides that, D/C does big business with fleet and government sales of their minivans...I'm sure that also helps their numbers.
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3782&categoryId=9
Also, keep in mind that when Ody does win it is by a very slim margin and usually because of the "sporty" ride. Reality is, many minivan drivers who do a true side by side comparison will likely pick the Sienna for its smooth, luxurious ride. Many folks who buy the Ody do it based off all the press they read. Car mags pick Ody usually by a slim margin because they are car guys who wouldn't be cought dead in a minivan and care most about the ride. As I've said before, lets let Mom's do the tests and I'm guessing the results will be different.
I'm only saying this from personal experience. I read all the press and was convinced Ody was the superior van. However, I wanted to be logical so I drove both on the same day right after each other. At the end of the day I was asking myself how the Ody gets all/most of the accolades...I'm actually still asking that question but I do think it is primarily because of car guys doing the tests.
Ody is a great van, not bad mouthing it. Besides the Sienna, nothing else comes close. Just my 2 cents.
Luckily, I have found an excellent salesman at a Toyota, a Honda, and a Dodge dealership and all 3 dealerships have a good inventory.
Yes, there is -- you can find out about the pricing experiences of both Odyssey and Sienna shoppers here:
Prices Paid & Buying Experience
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remember 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS, traction control, vehicle stability control, side airbags, and 2nd/3rd row side curtain airbags come standard on the even the low-end trim odyssey.
the only big safety features i'm aware in the toyota that aren't offered on the odyssey is AWD (and maybe the Daytime Running Lights (DRLs)).
configure the toyota with the comparable features available in the lowest-end trim of the odyssey and compare price.
It has to be remembered that in many parts of this country, driving an "import" isn't a good thing to do. Chrysler invented the minivan and they continue to have a good run with them.
Also, they sell TONS of these to fleets and to rental companies where Honda doesn't do this. this is part of the reason they have poor resale. After a couple of years, the rental companies dump them en mass at distressed prices.
A two year old Chrysler minivan can be a great value because of this. Same applies to Taurus and other cars the rental companies favor.
If the two vehicles would have been roughly the same price, we probably would have ended up with the Sienna. As it turned out, given the dealers we worked with, the Ody ended up around $4k less. We've been very happy with our purchase since and haven't second guessed ourselves once.
As I have said many times before, I have driven almost 70 minivans in the past 2 years, mostly DGCs and a few loaded T & C tossed in, as well as a couple each from Ford(Freestar) and GM(Uplander). So I have had the vast exposure and can see the big differences. I also also a Windstar previously as well.
Hence my choice for the Ody.
Resources such as C & D and CR are good reference for me to verify and help select my final choice.
Have anyone ever driven a Chevy Astro lately? Boy I got a 2005 rental as a substitute at Enterprise in TX this week. I had requested a Quest but it was not there when I cheked in. That Astro vehicle reminded me of the what/how vehicles were back in the 1960s - sloppy handling, no steering/road feel, rough ride, outdated interior styling, etc.... Good thing I did not have far to go!
But depending on where on the driving spectrum you are, you would choose one over the other vehicle assuming the price was similar/close.