Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

hvan3 · July 2005

<<As to the Toyota-the best price I have so far for an Sienna LE 7 passenger is $29, 345 with $1,350 for a dealer installed sunroof.>>

There's no such thing as dealer installed sunroof. If you want a "dealer installed sunroof", go chat with the Service Manager. Ask him who is their after-market vendor that they use for after market installed sunroof. Once you get that information, contact the company directly, and have them do the installation for you. Trust me, it's LOT cheaper to go directly to the after-market installer than to go to the dealership.

The way it works....salesman will sell you "dealer installed sunroof". The salesman will contact the Service Manager to arrange for the after-market sunroof installer to come to their dealership to pick up your minivan. He will drive your minivan to his shop. Once the installation is completed, he returns the minivan back to the dealership. The dealer will bill you 30-50% markup.

Typical after market sunroof installation is $995. It comes with 3 year warranty or even lifetime warranty....

caviller · July 2005

There is no SPIN, just a simple math.

Of course, to eliminate SPIN, you need to be base the numbers off street pricing, which could be lower or higher than invoice. In my area at least, it seems that Siennas sell a lot closer to invoice than Odysseys and there are also Toyota factory cash incentives you almost never see on an Odyssey...

Carsdirect.com has pricing that seems to be a pretty good indicator of a typical deal. It's not the best or worst price you'd get, but seems to reflect the trend of buyer reports you see on forums. Plus, it's an actual price you can get if you use their service.

macakava · July 2005

"I can't speak about the Sienna's high speed drivability but can attest that the Odyssey is superb as it approaches triple digits."

That is the priceless enjoyment and adventure that we, with lead feet, love so much about the Ody's performance for a minivan.

cccompson · July 2005

LOL, speak for yourself, macakava! No lead feet here, just the practical experience of traveling great distances across the American West.

macakava · July 2005

Then you are probably enjoying the high speed and superior handling capabilities of the Ody without knowing it, i.e. in a sublimal way.

Switch to a DGC like I have done 70+ times in car rentals and you can feel the difference instantly, Mon!

Like Iaccocca said 10+ years ago and again today, and we have heard,

"If you can find a better car, buy it"

Hans has just done so with a 2006 Ody to join our club! Welcome aboard!!

regganae · July 2005

Thanks guys! With all the pep the Odyssey has, I am sure it will actually be fun to drive on the autobahn. There aren't too many places where you can zoom past the police going 100mph and they can't do nothin' about it (Bite My Dust!). I loved doin' that in my civic. Thank you for all the input, I will definetely post from Germany to let you all know how the Ody does at those speeds, but it is a van, I don't wanna push her to hard!

macakava · July 2005

Enjoy life at 100+mph in the German autobahn, Mon!

I wish we had highways in the USA where I can do sustained 100+mph legally. I guess that I will have to only enjoy that illegal speed for a temporary short time when I do a swift overtaking of a slower vehicle doing 70+mph.

It is very irritating to be stuck behind another vehicle doing 72mph trying to overtake another vehicle doing 70 mph. It takes AGES and when you overtake that 72mph driver, he/she looks scared like Aunty Mildred!

hansienna · July 2005

I prefer the Sienna for performance based on test driving each.

Apparently the Sienna has a better, more responsive transmission and the 242 lb-ft of torque is available at 3600 RPM while the slightly higher Ody 250 lb-ft torque does not come on until 5,000 RPM.
Ody has a weight penalty with Ody EX weighing 300 or so lbs more than the Sienna LE.

Either is MUCH more responsive than my 02 T&C LX with only 210 lb-ft torque and an old fashioned 4 speed AT.
However, in real world driving I consistently get 26 to 28 MPG on trips. Does my experience indicate that when you do not have all that power, you drive more responsibly and get better gas mileage?

jim2363 · July 2005

Thanks for the response. I ended up throwing up my hands today and bought an Odyssey EX-L for $28,779. They wouldn't throw in the mats, so off to the Internet I go. I have this feeling that I could have gone for another $1-200, but maybe not. Considering all of the horror stories I hear about prices in Long Ilsand, I guess I did alright.

macakava · July 2005

Both the Ody and Sienna are fine minivans.

If your Lexus inclined, then go for Sienna.

If your BMW performance handling inclined, the Ody is it.

If you use your lead foot like C & D and Motor Trend do, the Ody will out accelerate the Sienna, especially in the climb up from 60 to 100mph.

It depends where your preference is in the wide driving spectrum.

NB: The Ody gives you 255hp on regular gas. The Sienna prefers premium gas for its 230 hp but can use regular; if you use regular, there will be some HP loss of maybe about 5hp which will let the Ody leave the Sienna even further behind

macakava · July 2005

Sounds like a good deal on an EXL. Weathertech.com has great aftermarket mats. Also Handa-accessories.com sells genuine Honda parts at prices lower than dealers.

Enjoy your Ody!

05ody · July 2005

I was reading on the net I think it was caranddriver. He was testing the Odyssey for its handeling on a race track, and said he hit 100MPH without even knowing it. He said it was so easy, he didnt even mean to because he was just testing the cornering not the speed. The rollover resistance is better on the Odyssey then the Sienna probablly because of the lower ground clearance and wider tires! I would love to drive a highway where you have no speed limit. I would love to not only see the top end speed on the Odyssey, but ive always been curious on what its been for my 98' Accord V6! :P

hansienna · July 2005

Great analogy. The Lexus is known for reliable, quiet luxury while the BMW is finicky, high maintenance performance.

( However, I doubt that the Odyssey will require as much costly maintenance as the BMW.)

hrao · July 2005

ALG residual values can be found on their website and also Honda website www.honda.com , Honda claims the ALG numbers as competetive advantage

ALG residual values for 2005 models after 60 months are:
2005 Honda Odyssey EX 4dr Minivan (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
ALG residual is - 38% with Edmunds TMV of $26,572
ALG Value left is $10097
ALG value lost 26572-10097 = $16474
Finance Charge expenses for 5 year = $3573
Actual Value lost = 16474+3573 = $20,047

2005 Toyota Sienna XLE 7 Passenger Fwd 4dr Minivan (3.3L 6cyl 5A)
ALG residual is - 37% with Edmunds TMV of $26,989
ALG Value left is $9985
ALG value lost 26989-9985 = $17003
Finance Charge expenses for 5 year = $3573
Actual Value lost = 17003+3573 = $20,576

2005 Chrysler Town and Country Touring 4dr Ext Minivan (3.8L 6cyl 4A)
ALG residual is 29% with Edmunds TMV of $24,840, with an Autual dealer quote of $23,570
ALG Value left is $6835
ALG value lost 23570-6835 = $16734
Finance Charge expenses for 5 year = $3004
Actual Value lost = 16734+3004 = $19,738

The above are identical models.

True value lost after 5 years, based on ALG projections for 2005 models
Honda - $20,047
Toyota - $20,576
Chrysler - $19,738
It does not matter what number you use and I am not trying to sell you a odyssey
If you are shopping for a minivan , bottom line is if you can purchase

Town & country for $23100, Odyssey for $26,572 and Sienna for $26,100
you break even after 60 months or 5 year per ALG numbers.

Go out and do your shopping.

caviller · July 2005

It does not matter what number you use and I am not trying to sell you a odyssey

I can't seem to find your original post. All I am saying is that you must use street prices for the original price, upon which you base any resale/residual. Instead of using TMV or Invoice or whatever, just use the carsdirect.com price for all the models you compare and see how the simple math works then.

I did a similar spread sheet back when I bought my 2001 Odyssey. Intellichoice, Edmunds and everyone else said the Odyssey was the clear winner in value, depreciation, etc, etc. The funny thing was that they always used MSRP in their calculations. At the time, only the Odyssey was selling at MSRP. The competition was all selling for thousands less. When you factored in that small error, the numbers equalized quite a bit.

Granted, overall value and depreciation is not a factor for me. I'd rather have the van for safety and convenience features. If you are shopping for value, you do need to use accurate numbers. ALG is nice, but make sure you know how they calculate their residuals. I don't know how they do it, but they may base them off MSRP, too...

socalawd · July 2005

It does not matter what number you use and I am not trying to sell you a odyssey
If you are shopping for a minivan , bottom line is if you can purchase

Town & country for $23100, Odyssey for $26,572 and Sienna for $26,100
you break even after 60 months or 5 year per ALG numbers.

I know,It seems your trying to sell the Chrysler! He uses the TMV for Honda and Toyota and a much lower quote for the Chrysler. It's his game to try and switch the number around it's pretty hard to follow. So I just don't follow it!! He also adds in finance charges now thats not true comparation. I paid cash fo my van!

macakava · July 2005

We are talking analogies here for those who don't understand!

Those who take every word to its literal meaning appear to be very finicky.

In the minivan category, it has been commonly said that,

the Ody is the "BMW" of mnivans in the way it handle for a minivan

the Sienna is the "Lexus" of minivans in the luxury it provides as a minivan

ctsang · July 2005

You got it wrong.
The Ody is the Acura of minivans, the Sienna is the Lexus of minivans.
or
The Ody is the BMW of minivans, the Sienna is the Mercedes of minivans.

macakava · July 2005

Anyway you want to cook the books or figures like Hrao is fine.

The only problem is that the Germans do not have the reliability of the Japanese cars. But we are addressing "handling" here, and yes the BMW handles better than the MB.

irg · July 2005

Yes, thank you for this post. Comparing ANY minivan to a BMW oriented machine is silly. The two really are not similar. The Sienna gets compared to a Lexus because it is quiet, smooth riding, and comfortable, so here the comparison is valid. If you want to, say the Odyssey is more sporting than the Sienna, by a little bit. But when I have my family in my Sienna, I really don't drive it like I am at the Watkins Glen track nearby, and I know my wife doesn't either. So for comparison sakes, I agree whole heartedly with your post. An Odyssey is Not like a BMW, nor is any other van. The Odyssey is indeed a very good van, let's just confuse things here. I used to own a fairly sporty Jetta GLX (v6) 5 speed, and even that car, was much faster and sportier than either van. I could hit 90 mph in third gear. Not sure I would want to do that in my Sienna, even if I could. I also couldn't carry 7 people in the Jetta and a lot of luggage. Two very different types of vehicles, not worthy of comparing to each other, because it doesn't make any sense.

loveyalions05 · July 2005

Where did you get that price? I was north of philadelphia looking for odysseys this past week. I'm getting the EX-L with the DVD, but the best price I found was 30,900 (inclusive of ALL dealer's charges, i.e., processing fees, freight cost, etc). I'm actually from VA, and when I called my local dealers with the price, they flatly told me to buy in PA -- they couldn't compete.

loveyalions05 · July 2005

As many others, we're currently torn between the 2005 Sienna and the 2005 Odyssey. Specifically, we're comparing the Sienna XLE, package # 7 (which includes the DVD and CD changer) with the Odyssey EX-L with the DVD (but NO navigation). My sister recently bought the 2005 Odyssey Touring, so we've driven the Odyssey more extensively than the Sienna, but we don't really notice a major handling difference. We're satisfied with how both cars drive (although I was slightly less comfortable in the Sienna's driver's seat -- shocking, given how adjustable both the seat and the steering wheel are -- you'd think I'd have been able to find a comfy position).

To us, the major differences are as follows: we'd get a potential 8th seat with the Odyssey. Yes, I recognize that it's a tight fit for 3 people, and probably not a very comfortable ride. We'd only use the seat for carpooling kids or taking short local drives (to restaurants or sightseeing locally) when we want to avoid having to take 2 cars and we're with another family or member of our own extensive family. Going into the search, we'd decided we wanted the 8th seat (not realizing we couldn't get it on the Sienna). You cannot get the XLE with an 8th seat (incidentally, you can't get the Touring model of the Odyssey with the 8th seat, either). And if you DO decide to get the LE with the 8th seat, you lose the captain's chairs (and have to special order to get the car with leather, since that model doesn't ordinarily come with leather). Aside from the 8th seat issue, the XLE Sienna will have a power tailgate, and the EX-L Odyssey won't. The XLE Sienna has pop-out third row windows, and the EX-L Odyssey windows don't do anything.

We shopped every dealer in the Philadelphia area to get prices and then called our local VA dealers to see the difference. Philadephia is cheaper -- our bottom line prices: Sienna XLE, package 7 = $32,000 (inclusive of all dealers costs -- we pay only tax and tags in addition to that price). Odyssey EX-L with DVD = $30,875. The Virginia dealers we talked to (and I talked to about 10 from each manufacturer) flatly told us they couldn't beat those prices and that we should buy the car in PA.

Given that we don't see much of a difference in the cars (we're neither Honda nor Toyota loyal), we'd probably go with the cheaper car (you should have a reason you'd want to pay about $1500 more for a car, right?). But here's the rub -- it's coming down to the dealership. Our driveway has a really steep grade, and the Honda Odyssey has a very low clearance. My sister, with the touring model, makes it up my driveway, but it's REALLY close. The Touring model has 17.5 inch wheels. The EX-L comes with 16 inch wheels. The PA dealership is bending over backwards to convince me it's the same clearance (they measured 6 points under the car, and took extensive time explaining things like "suspension drop" to me). They cannot, however, locate official information from Honda regarding the clearance difference (if any) between the two cars. So, the obvious thing we need to do to feel comfortable is to drive the EX-L up the driveway. While I was still away, my husband went to Pohanka Honda in Fredericksburg VA and asked to test drive an EX-L up our driveway (we live 13 miles from the dealership). Because I'd put a deposit (refundable) on a car in Philly, my husband felt compelled to tell the dealership that (believe me, I had a lot to say about his decision to do that, but it's all water under the bridge now). The dealership told him he couldn't test drive the car -- that all 4 Odysseys they currently had in stock had appointments to be test driven. HA. Right. I realize that this dealer knew the profit wasn't going to go into his own pocket, but you would hope (1) they would want to please us to get our service and (2) they would show a higher loyalty to corporate Honda -- after all, I'm sure their franchise agreement requires them to sell Honda cars, not to first ensure that the Honda profit goes into that particular dealership's pocket. And of course, there's the fact that if they gave us the lowest price we probably WOULD go with them -- most buyers, you would think, test drive the cars and then shop around to get the best possible price. We just happened to know that they couldn't beat the PA price in advance (still, I wouldn't have been quite as forthcoming as my husband -- don't get me started).

So here we are -- still not QUITE sure that the EX-L fits up our driveway, and pretty annoyed with the local dealership who would most conveniently service our car. The Toyota dealership here has been great (and is very conveniently located), but we'd still have to pay more for a car that, in the end doesn't really give us more. The salesperson sent my husband home with a Sienna and let him keep it at the house, try it up the driveway and in the garage. Ironic, really, since we were never really concerned about the Sienna clearance. But what good will that dealership has garnered, especially in light of how frustrated I am with Pohanka Honda.

Does anyone have any solid information about the Honda clearance -- touring model vs EX-L? There's another Honda dealership a little further from us that we could try to hit up for a test drive . . . And how annoyed would you have to be to pay $1500 more for a car (don't get me wrong, I really like the Sienna too, it's just a bit more expensive and I'm trying to rationalize that -- I'm pretty angry with Honda . . .but $1500 worth of angry? hmmmm) . . . .

regganae · July 2005

Okay now let me refresh. I originally posted this topic because I am moving to Germany next year when my hubby gets back from Iraq, and when he gets back, we are buying either a Sienna or an Ody. I test drove both, and I am heavily leaning towards the Ody because we will be driving on the autobahn, w/ no speed limit, regularly, and I just feels that it handles better at top speeds. Now of course when I drove both vans, I was not able to push 100 on them, I have to strictly go off of other posters and reviews. When we lived in Germany a few years ago, we drove our civic at 120mph for 3 1/2 years, and the engine is fine now. That was my other concern, being that the Ody and Sienna are refreshed models, how will the engine last driving at these speeds after 5 years or so?

Now I am only 24 and the thought of a minivan would bring chills to me. But w/ 2 kids and after my hubby being in Iraq for a year, we realized we want at least 1 more, a van just makes more sense, until I saw the spy shots of the 06 Pilot! But I know for sure it will be an Ody or a Pilot now.

Because most people are comparing the Ody to a BMW, and the Sienna to a Lexus, I am not trying to drive a Lexus in Germany like that. When I was there, I saw more BMW's than anything and we almost bought one (I would NEVER buy a BMW here. They are cheaper than Accords when you buy through the military there). I guess also that the Ody has more horsepower. I don't know much about engines and stuff, but that is why I joined this forum, to get opinions from others that know more than me. So whether the Ody is like a BMW or not, I just feel, having driven both, that it would do better in Germany.

macakava · July 2005

The word here is ANALOGY to compare situations.

The Sienna is said to be like a "Lexus" because it is quiet and smooth riding.

The Ody is said to be like a "BMW" because it handles the sportiest of the minivans and is justifiable here a la C & D and Edmunds.com.

The above is all in the context of the minivan category of vehicles.

Capiche?

If not, end of subject because it is waste of time to go further.

regganae · July 2005

Anyways.....
If you guys had a chance to get a Sienna XLE 8 passenger (not sure if you can get it in leather), would you get that over the Ody EXL NAV/RES??? I love the dash interior of the Sienna, but I love the exterior of the Ody much better. The Sienna looks like an egg on wheels to me, IMO. Exterior is not always the most important factor though. The Sienna XLE is sold to military members in Germany as an 8 passenger XLE (we will be moving back there next year). I do like the extra seat. This really would not persuade me to get one; I ordered my '06 Ody yesterday, but anything can happen!! So what do you guys think??? If you had this chance, would you do it???

petl · July 2005

The Previa looked like an egg on wheels.

boodad · July 2005

I have the XLE 8 Passenger. It doesn't come with leather seats. However, I would recommend it, especially if you have or will have 3 kids. The advantages are simple: with the second row seating 3, you can stow the rear row and have mucho grande cargo space (or just knowing you can do this on the fly is awesome). The middle seat in the second row can extend forward to near the first row - - very handy for baby-assist chores while van is in motion. Also, this XLE 8-seater has an XLE Limited feature called sonar parking assist - - very handy for parking this beast. Additionally, this XLE 8 passenger comes with rear disc brakes, TRAC and VSC, rear DVD, 3-row curtain airbags and the automatic 3-zone climate control. Because I ordered it, I waited only 3 weeks and got the color of my choice (which can be hard to do in the States). Yeah, it's loaded but it's nice if you can afford it. I paid cash and I intend to keep it for awhile.

Also, I've got it up to 103 mph with plenty of power left over on the Autobahn. It has a nice, quiet ride even at Autobahn speeds. PM me for more details. Goodluck in whatever you decide.

caviller · July 2005

I have the XLE 8 Passenger.

Too bad this isn't available to people living inside the USA, unless perhaps the Canadian versions of the XLE have the 8-passenger option...

hansienna · July 2005

Too bad a XLE Base Model listed in the Sienna brochure is NOT available in the United States either. :confuse:
The "Base" XLE has all the features I want or need and the Toyota region policy of including mandatory options is disgusting. :sick:

loveyalions05 · July 2005

I'm currently shopping between the sienna and odyssey, and own neither, but have been reading this board pretty extensively . . . just to save you time, I'll rehash some of the info I've found.

"I test drove both, and I am heavily leaning towards the Ody because we will be driving on the autobahn, w/ no speed limit, regularly, and I just feels that it handles better at top speeds"

Check out message 229 -- I think it was written by someone who was pleased with how the Sienna performed in Germany . . . perhaps the info will be useful to you.

One concern I'm grappling with about the 2005 Odyssey is the engine. I think the excellent mileage is a perk, but some posts on this site have raised the question that it's unknown whether the engine will have problems, since it's sort of first generation. I know absolutely nothing about it, including whether these concerns are a load of bunk posted by sienna salespeople. And there is, of course, the fact that the warranty on the engine of the sienna is better than that on the odyssey (5 years/60,000 miles vs. 3 years/36,000 miles). Don't get me wrong, I'm leaning toward the odyssey myself, but the information I've found on these issues has made me pause to think . . .

jim2363 · July 2005

Thanks for the response-is that "www.handa-accessories.com"?

dilbertzzz · July 2005

I don't mean to sound condescending nor patronizing, but please, stop a minute and take a deep breath. (All others agonizing over this decision, can benefit from doing the same!)

With the possible exception of the lady worried about scraping bottom going up her driveway, there is really very little risk in buying either minivan over the other one. They are both so closely matched that folks are debating fine points of personal preference. Few regret their decision (either way) and few can honestly say that they would have made a big mistake to buy the one they did not buy.

I realize that this is not a minor economic decision, but we are talking about the two best choices available. People are choosing one over the other for their own reasons. So, go with your gut instinct, buy the one that suits you best (such things as available, quality dealer service considered) and then don't look back. Why fret needlessly over whether a truly good decision already made was the very best decision possible when you can never truly know that anyway?!? :confuse:

jim2363 · July 2005

Don't know for sure, since I just bought the EX-L, partly for the engine. My take on it is that the technology seems similar to the V-Tech idea, whcih they have made for years. My plan is to watch it carefully and to be very aggressive with the State Lemon Law if necessary. Good luck with your purchase. It's all just playing the odds in the end.

ravichander · July 2005

Loveyalion05

I will try and measure the exact clearance of the odyssey 05 today. We were in the same situation and I test drove the 2 vehicles.
Your details on your second paragraph are what clinched the Ody for us. We have a family of 5 members including 1 child and when we meet our brother and his wife who also has a kid we might need the 8th seat so that we do not end up taking a second for the family outing. Ody has it with a higher end package- the EXL version whereas the Sienna does not have it in the higher end versions. The multiple versions of Sienna with so many options packages were very confusing and put us off.
I do not think that Honda or Toyota can be blamed for salespeople that are rude, though they should have a mechanism to monitor and discipline them. Compared to your experience, the local Honda dealers in South Carolina were very nice and price competitive but the Toyota dealers had the take it or leave it attitude. The Sienna comparable to the EXL-RES cost more than $ 2500 compared to the Odyssey. So it was a no-brainer to decide on the choice of vehicle. Our EXL-RES was only $29,500 inc. dest charge before TTL. I have no allegiance to either company (having both an Accord and Camry in our possession) and price was the main objective.
The rides were good in both vehicles. I found the steering a bit mushy on the Toyota and firmer on the Honda. This might translate to better feel for the road in the case of Honda but it might also lead to more fatigue after long drives with that vehicle. Just my opinion.

The Accord also has a low clearance, like the odyssey. This is a problem when either going up or down an incline from a flat road (especially if there is gutter separating it). To avoid the underside being hit I usually brake just as the front wheels are about to climb incline and let the cars wheels climb slowly over the incline. Never ha a problem with that approach.

Good luck with your search. The inventories of the 05 Ody are getting low and it appears that new 05 models are not being built at a good rate. Our dealer told us that he expects only 1 more 2005 shipment before the 2006 model comes in.

hansienna · July 2005

Sienna transmission seemed more responsive than the Odyssey transmission in the 2 that I test drove. (Each is much better than my T&C 4 AT).
The 2005 Odyssey inventory is going fast and all new shipments will be 2006 models. The salesman told me there may be no discount from MSRP on 2006 Odysseys while there is a $1,304 discount now on Ody EX (cloth) MSRP $28,710.
Meanwhile, there are still more 2005 Sienna entering the inventory and there is a $2,389 discount on a 2005 Sienna LE MSRP $27,289. I would imagine there will be less discount on the 2006 Sienna than now.
What will happen if the 2006 Sienna should get the bigger 3.5L V6 with 280 HP @ 6200 RPM and 260 lb-ft torque @ 4700 RPM that is currently in the Avalon?? :confuse: Probably no discount at all on the Sienna which would become the NEW undisputed performance minivan.

isellhondas · July 2005

This is an excellent post!

It really doesn't have to be that difficult!

tai1 · July 2005

This is exactly what I have in mind for a long time.

Knowing that there is a "better" engine in the family, I just cannot buy the 2005 Sienna. Past experience told us Avalon, Camry, ES330, Highlander, RX330, Sienna, and Solara shared V6 engines from time to time.

Anyone could share the engine selection for 06 Sienna? Thank you.

hansienna · July 2005

Does anyone have any inside info on the 2006 Sienna engine? :confuse: As I checked Toyota and Lexus models in Edmunds, the Avalon is the only model that I could find that is using the powerful 3.5L V6.
Is Toyota going to inject some fear into Honda and put the 3.5L V6 into the 2006 Sienna?
The possibility of the 2006 Sienna getting the 3.5L engine now used in the Avalon should give Honda salesmen nightmares.

isellhondas · July 2005

If they were to do this, I seriously doubt that very many prospective buyers would even care.

jipster · July 2005

The 3.5 L did a lot for increasing Avalon sales...why do you think prospective buyers wouldn't care?

macakava · July 2005

YES!

http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyssey05.html

isellhondas · July 2005

It was more than that. They took an "old lady's" car and made it much more appealing to the masses. Sure, the 3.5 engine helped.

The Odyssey already has a 3.5 liter engine anyway.

hansienna · July 2005

Why? Because the Sienna and Avalon engines produce more power per liter than the Odyssey.

Is VVT-i just better than VTEC?

Both VVT-i and VTEC produce more power per liter than the old fashioned low tech pushrod engine in my 2002 T&C LX 3.3L.

gaawb · July 2005

Sorry to change the subject but I was settled on purchasing the Sienna XLE AWD until I ran across dozens of consumer cases of the Run Flat tires being a disaster. It seems they need to be replaced after an average of 15K miles, are VERY expensive to replace, and are hard to find and get replaced. Furthermore, the Sienna does not come with a spare so being stranded becomes a real issue. Toyota dealers do not stock them and they blame the tread wear problems on Bridgestone. In turn, Bridgestone blames the problems on the Sienna. So no one is owning up to the problem and the consumer is stuck with replacing these tires every 15K miles, all while praying they don't have a complete blow-out on a tire.

Has anyone heard about this? I'm surprised I haven't seen any mention in this forum. I will purchase the Odyssey if need be but need to make sure these Run Flat problems are legitimate.

hansienna · July 2005

The Odyssey Touring has PAX tires that present the same problem...except there are fewer places that have the necessary equipment to replace a PAX tire. :sick:
Just don't buy either a Sienna AWD or an Odyssey Touring and you can use regular tires.

05ody · July 2005

Im sure if it gives them that much of a scare...there is always that 3.5 litre 300hp engine they use in the Acura RL

...now that would be insane! But are they really putting the 280hp engine they use in the avalon in the sienna?? :confuse:

macakava · July 2005

Good one!

I didn't want to mention that ace in the hand option.
But I doubt that Honda and Toyota would use their higher output engines of 300hp and 280hp respectively in their minivans. The market is too small for it except for Dae and I.

Maybe we can dream further about the DGC having the 425 hp 6.2 L V8 engine as an option. SRT as someone mentioned. Again only for Dae and I.

However for lower/utility applications like trucks/minivans, most/all manufacturers use "detuned"(maybe lower HP but higher torque) versions of the same block engines they use in their higher performance cars.

Fo example, Quest 3.5 V6 is 240hp vs the same engine block at 265hp in Maxima and 285-300hp in G35 - 350Z.

Remember also, that the handling dynamics of a vehicle is also very important. Sure one vehicle may go faster in a straight line( a no-brainer) but would be a wimp on cornering.

05ody · July 2005

Your right. I mean if that was the case the DGC would have a HEMI! But in all honesty I think that 255hp in a minivan is more then enough power...your not going to go do dragraces in an Odyssey! Even 230 is a fair amount of horsepower for what people use a minivan for...Thats just what I think. I am more then happy with the 255hp my Odyssey has!

kjo · July 2005

The idea that the Sienna needs a more powerful engine is foolish. I own a 2005 LE and the double overhead cam 3.3L is plenty peppy for any and all situations. The Sienna weighs less than the the Ody and , I suspect, has a slightly different gear ratio, because it accelerates quicker than the Ody that I drove. It just seemed more responsive to me. Also, I'd like to add that I have been using regular 87 octane gas and have taken a trip in extreme summer heat and no problem at all. The highway milage is right at 30mpg, which is good enough for me.

caviller · July 2005

Our 2001 Odyssey is 215hp on premium, if I recall correctly, 210 on regular. Of course, it's low end torque vs. weight that is important for off-the-line acceleration. I can't remember the torque figures of our 2001, though I'm sure they are lower than the current Odyssey and Sienna, too. In any case, our 2001 has plenty of power for acceleration from a stop, passing and anything else, with A/C or not.

Yeah, the extra power/torque is nice and it's great for bragging rights, but if compromises are made, I'd rather have 199 hp and an extra mpg or two. Especially in the case of a family hauler.

I saw the 8-passenger Sienna LE today. Very nice. I like the folding tray table and black interior trim that you can't get in the XLE. The second row seats are just fine for average adults. Very comfortable. The front and center second seat is neat, but I suspect we'd use it about as often as the magic indexing second row seat on our Odyssey. The nicest thing is the ability to have 3 kids or adults comfortably in the second row and have all the cargo space in back. Plus, you can tumble the 2nd row seats forward for even more cargo space and not have to bother removing and storing the chairs. I also liked the feel of just about every interior button, switch, lever and strap in the Toyota. Not that the Honda was bad, but the Toyota seemed a step above in interior quality overall.

I do wonder why Toyota insisted on having a plastic trim cover the underside of the third row seat. It's handy to be able to store long objects under there with the 3rd row seat up in our 2001 Odyssey. The plastic is necessary around the legs and frame, but why block the rest of the area? I guess you could cut it yourself...

I also liked the wireless-ready rear seat audio system Toyota includes on Package #5. I'm not considering a DVD system, but just having dual-zone audio would be a nice touch.

I need to compare the driver position side-by-side sometime in the next month or two. The Sienna seemed to be notably higher than the Odyssey, but it's hard to say for sure not seeing them together.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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