Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

boodad · July 2005

Email me.

jipster · July 2005

O.K...I understand now. Thanks for the link autoguy.

But, the new method of calculating HP will cause some confusion with those wanting to compare the newer models with the older (and not realizing that the standard was changed) Someone will see the 215hp for the 2006 Sienna and think..."man...they're going the wrong way with hp...I'll buy the 2004 or 2005 model and get 15 more horses." :confuse:

rcpg · July 2005

Can you PM me your email address?

Thanks!

autoguy1 · July 2005

I completely agree with you. It's going to be completely confusing for those who don't know this for these few coming years.

Who knows, perhaps the Odyssey will drop too. I think

Again, the 3.3L was NOT detuned in any way compared to the 2004-2005 Sienna.

autoguy1 · July 2005

Some more changes. Standard curtain airbags on all trims including CE. Still no standard VSC

XLE & XLE Limited will recieve lighter colour wood. Perhaps the baby barf colour on the Sienna...

player4 · July 2005

The Sienna receives several enhancements, inside, and out for 2006. All Siennas receive a restyled front fascia that includes an updated grille, foglamps, and headlamps along with redesigned taillamp clusters. A power heated side mirror with memory, puddle lamp and integrated turn signal is now standard on Limited models.

In addition to exterior styling changes, Sienna gains additional comfort and convenience features, further enhancing its great value. All grades now receive standard front seat-mounted side airbags and side curtain airbags for all three rows, further enhancing Sienna's strong reputation for safety. All grades now receive standard universal audio mini-jack port and MP3 capability. The CE and LE grades receive new interior fabric and silver dash accents. The XLE grade receives a lighter wood grain accent and power driver and front passenger seats as standard equipment. Limited models receive a standard power driver seat with memory and lighter wood grain accents. Additionally, all LE, XLE and Limited models receive Optitron instrumentation as standard equipment.

For 2006, Sienna's optional rear seat entertainment screen has increased from seven to nine inches for enhanced viewing.

The base MSRP for the Sienna CE begins at $23,625 for the seven-passenger model, reflecting an increase of $200 or 0.9 percent. The CE eight-passenger model begins at $23,775 an increase of $200 or 0.8 percent. The LE grade ranges from $25,130 for the seven-passenger model to $25,280 for the eight-passenger model, an increase of $200 or 0.8 percent. The LE seven-passenger AWD carries a base MSRP of $28,745 reflecting an increase of $200, or 0.7percent. The XLE seven-passenger 2WD has a base MSRP of $29,425, an increase of $200, or 0.7 percent. The XLE seven-passenger AWD model has a base MSRP of $32,630, an increase of $200, or 0.6 percent. The XLE Limited 2WD has a base MSRP of $35,880, an increase of $385, or 1.1 percent. The XLE Limited AWD model has a base MSRP of $38,080, an increase of $385, or 1.0 percent.

hansienna · July 2005

The Sienna LE I test drove performed BETTER than did the Odyssey EX. That was a big surprise after reading many times that the Ody is the best performing minivan. :confuse:
For performance, the Sienna beat the Odyssey.

boodad · July 2005

I've sent an email to you. Goodluck!

macakava · July 2005

If the Sienna suits you better, buy it, a la Iaccoca.

It is interesting though that the 7+ testing agencies(C & D, CR, Motor Trend, Edminds, etc) thought differently. My testing of these two supports their results, especially for brisk overtaking at the 75 - 100mph range.

Both the Ody and Sienna are great performers in their own way. You cannot go wrong with either. But for my leadfooted driving manner in the straight and corners, the Ody is much more lively, handles better and more inspiring. If I not so inclined, then any other MV would suffice for my personal needs.

For a minivan, I am always surprise to see how the Ody handles/drives compared to the others cars in my family which includes the CTS-V, Maxima, etc.

jm38 · July 2005

Could you e-mail the info on the 2006 Sienna also. Thanks.

05ody · July 2005

Totally agree. For a minivan, the Odyssey has amazing pickup at both high and low speeds. I just got back from driving 4 hours in it and I loved winding it up from 100KM/H to about 130KM/H passing. It takes absolutely no time to get there. My Accord V6 is not a slow car and it handles great, and the Odyssey has almost the same feel as the Accord does. It took me no time at all to get used to the Odyssey. And also, I never get tense or nervous coming up to a corner at 130KM/H plus, like I did with my other van.

attilauy · July 2005

I am also very impressed with the performance of my new ODY. I have BMW, several maximas and previously, a GC. Whenever I encounter tight turns (like tight clover leaf areas), the ODY is very stable, not much leaning on the side. I think it is even better than my older maxima and definitely a lot better than my previous GC, during this particular maneuver (tight turning).

ctsang · July 2005

I have both Ody and Sienna. I just did what you did, ie. tight turns (like tight clover leaf areas) with both and they performed the same with no lean. But again both are no way the same as my Bimmer. Bottom line, Ody and Sienna performed the same and neither is a Bimmer.

irg · July 2005

Thanks, rorr, I am glad someone else gets it. Sorry if I had been a bit testy in my previous post to mackava, we have a newborn in the house, so sleep has been at a premium lately

Feeling better today, now that the mother in law has gone !!

I agree, and have agreed, that the Odyssey is a very good van, and probably deserves the #1 ranking it has been receiving this year, despite some quality issues people have mentioned. I just didn't find it much sportier than the Sienna, and the smoothness and the quietness of the Sienna won me over. Although frankly, I felt the Odyssey was very good at this too. Actually what won me over was the price, I just got a better deal on the Sienna than the Odyssey. If it had been the other way around, I would be driving the Odyssey. But at the end of the day, these are still fairly heavy vans, that can't be confused with sport machines. But they do many other things very well.

mcase2 · August 2005

Alright! sanity at last.

hansienna · August 2005

OR, buy another DC minivan.

Problem: With employee pricing, virtually all NEW 2005 Caravan, Grand Caravan, and T&C are now sold.

Since this is Odyssey vs Sienna, back to the subject. I was ready to buy a new 2005 Odyssey but all allocation has been sold. Test drove both a 2004 Sienna and 2005 Odyssey and because of the more responsive transmission and engine combination of the Sienna, the purchase of an Ody is in limbo. :confuse:

boodad · August 2005

Don't know your email address. Send me an email (look at my profile for the address) and I'll provide info back to you.

vrm · August 2005

All grades now receive standard front seat-mounted side airbags and side curtain airbags for all three rows, further enhancing Sienna's strong reputation for safety.

It took a Honda to knock some sense into Toyota. Loss of market share in the minivan market has been a wakeup call for Toyota.

Until the 2006 Sienna, safety was an "option". You had to buy package # 7 to get these safety features.

Toyota pricing is very deceptive. Options are sold via confusing packages. Thats why I never bought a Toyota vhicle and probably never will.

hansienna · August 2005

Agree that Toyota has very confusing packages. I would like a "base" Sienna XLE but a "base" XLE is NOT available in the Denver Region.... and as I check other zip codes, it appears that XLE Package # 4 @ $2,575 is the MINIMUM XLE available anywhere within the United States. :mad:
Sadly, the Sienna LE does NOT have separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger and I do NOT want power sliding doors. :P
Honda has a much more sensible method of equipping the Odyssey and if Honda would put the separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger in the LX, the Odyssey would be my first choice.

macakava · August 2005

Attilauy and Ody05,

For those of us who are demanding of our vehicles because of our driving preferences, we know which vehicle in its category performs best under those conditions.

For others who are not so inclined, any other vehicle will suffice with the exception of a "Yugo". But then you never know - there will be some who are attracted to its value.

ewt · August 2005

Then there are those of us who have high enough expectations of their vehicles that neither choice is very satisfying from a driving perspective, and buy a minivan based on other factors. The constant repetitive insults directed at people didn't buy Odysseys and therefore aren't "demanding of our vehicles because of our driving preferences" are getting very, very tiresome. Give it a rest.

ravichander · August 2005

Agree that Toyota has very confusing packages. I would like a "base" Sienna XLE but a "base" XLE is NOT available in the Denver Region.... and as I check other zip codes, it appears that XLE Package # 4 $2,575 is the MINIMUM XLE available anywhere within the United States.

Both the Odyssey and Sienna are good vehicles and there are not great differences between comparable models. But I feel that the pricing of the Odyssey is kept with the customer in mind and that of the Sienna is with the dealer in mind. I do not know why Toyota cannot come up with a simplified package system so that all the Siennas are sold in 6 or 7 choices and the features of each one is clearly laid out. I tried comparing the various options packages of the Sienna and see how much say option package #6 costs more than option package #5 and what features do I get, do I lose anything in the process and if it is available for LE or XLE etc. etc. My head started swimming with the numbers and trying to decipher what they mean.

Even when you decide I want XLE with package #3, it may not be available or be in a different color. Package #5 may be on the lot but one does not know if it is a good price because of confusing numbers. And as hansienna pointed out, some models do not come as base version but with a minimum package to try and improve the profits for the dealer. I am sure that there are some who like this option package system but others like me chose a Honda in order to make buying a minivan less painful than a tooth extraction.

macakava · August 2005

Amen to a "Yugo"

irg · August 2005

I agree with you and others that the Sienna packages and choices are confusing, but I don't think it is geared to the dealer. In fact, most of the dealers told me, and I tended to believe them on this, that they too are somewhat overwhelmed and confused by the packages available, and the zones that Toyota uses. They don't really do this on other models that I am aware of, so I am not sure why the do it on the Sienna. One dealer thought that Toyota was going to be simplifying it in the future, which would be good for both customer and dealer.

I would guess that there are still a fair number of consumers that buy whatever they see on the lot, and take that as what is available. They probably don't pour over the brochures, don't log onto this site, and don't really care or have the time.

Honda does make it simpler, which in most cases is better. Sienna has more of a a la carte menu, which does allow one to custom order a van a bit better, but from what I have found, and what others have mentioned, what you want and what you can get (based on these zones) are two different things. Honda also has it a bit easier because they don't offer the awd versions, don't have a true 8 seat van like the CE and LE models have on the Sienna. Toyota is the #3 selling minivan after the T&C and Caravan models, so it must not be too much of an inconvenience, but I think in the future, if they simplified things, and made every verision available in all zones, that would make it easier to compare apples to apples.

jipster · August 2005

"Honda does make it simpler..."

Yes, they do. But, unfortunately the Honda dealerships make pricing even more confusing than the Sienna option packages by all the dealer add ons they put on.
I know the Honda dealers in my area put on all the worthless/overpriced stuff(i.e fabric protection, pin stripping, mud flaps, window etching i.d etc) on their vans.
You can't get a van unless you buy all the crappy add ons that come with it.

At least that was my experience roughly a year ago when I shopped Odys. When the dealers were trying to move them off the lots last July of 2004, they offered the van at invoice with over $1,000 in add ons thrown in for free. Still not enough incentive or styling on the 2004Ody to lure me from the minivan with "the body of a minivan and the soul of a sportscar." :P

rorr · August 2005

"But, unfortunately the Honda dealerships make pricing even more confusing than the Sienna option packages by all the dealer add ons they put on."

This practice varies from dealer to dealer and region to region. When we bought our Ody EX-L in February froma dealer in Houston, there wasn't a single dollar of additional dealer add ons.

However, I'll agree that dealer add ons are certainly not uncommon. The problem we had here in Texas with looking at Siennas (our first choice) was the Toyota Distributors (Gulf State Toyotas in particular).

Here, it wasn't the DEALER add ons (where I could at least fume directly at the individuals responsible). We have to deal with all that junk which has been added by the DISTRIBUTOR. So, not only was it difficult (virtually impossible) to find a Sienna with the package desired in a color desired, but we would have had to go out of state (WAY out of state) to get one without one of the various 'Extra Mile' packages.

user777 · August 2005

yes. we had to shop 4 or 5 dealerships before we could find an un-adorned ODY LX... LXs are more rare than the EX, but still, it was very unpleasant dealing with all the dealer bumping. i asked this question over in the "any questions for a dealer" forum and was told my wife and i are in the minority, representing (i believe the figure was roughly 0.3%), a very small segment of the purchasing population.

still i trust there is a discriminating population of specifically mini-van buyers that expect to be able to get un-bumped vehicles in the various trims.

i've always argued that toyota should make their matrix of sienna pkg offerings, some of the entries not available in various regions, of lower dimension. how on one hand they tell you that a customizable configuration is possible, only for you to learn it isn't available would turn me away from this very capable vehicle.

i think they recognize this and read somewhere, here? they plan on a simpler set of offerings for the '06 model year.

isellhondas · August 2005

Did someone tell you that only 0.3% of Odyssey buyers want the LX model?

I know I didn't say that and that isn't accurate. LX's don't sell nearly as well as the EX's and above. I would guess the percentage at maybe 10% ?

user777 · August 2005

isell, it was terry in the "any questions for a car dealer" forum. he was making the point that my wife and i, wanting an un-adorned "base" vehicle were in the minority of purchasers. he specifically did not reference that figure for any particular vehicle, in this case the ODY LX, or it's percentage of total ODY sales. sorry for any confusion - if any - its my fault.

10% seems reasonable based on the number I typically see on the road here in Atlanta.

but remember, unbumped LXs. No roof rack, no cargo tray, no muds, no vin-etch, no scotch-guard, no undercoating, no remote entry no CD/changer, nada. i think we are in the very small minority of purchasers, but we exist.

jipster · August 2005

I would say the number of people that would like a LX is higher than 10%. One dealer I shopped out had 1 LX...out of maybe 8 0r 9 Ody's.And that LX came with $1,000 + in dealer add ons. Another dealer didn't have any(out of around 12). I think Honda knows at what % they will lose sales...and keep it under this number.

Toyota seemed to have the same problem with their CE (lowest cost model) not being in stock. Took a dealer 4 weeks just to get one in that I could look at.

micksbuyacar · August 2005

Hansienna, I just bought a Sienna XLE with package #4 at Stevinson East Toyota after initially wanting a package #3 and learning that the region is not supplied with them. It sucked wading through all the option packages for LEs and XLEs, comparing to the Odyssey, finally deciding and then finding out you can't get what you want! I then researched where I might get a package #3 and found a dealer in Billings, Montana (different region than Rocky Mtn) with one. So at least they are available if you look hard enough.

I asked the dealer for a quote since the difference in MSRP between the two packages is $900 (#4 is the same as #3 but adds a sunroof, which I didn't really want). I figured if they were aggressive in pricing to "steal me" from the Denver region, it might be worth it financially to take a one way flight (via Frontier) to Billings and drive the van back (600 miles).

The deal didn't work for three reasons: 1. they were not aggressive enough on pricing 2. at the time, the Montana region offered only a $500 rebate (Denver $750) and 3. Their car included the auto-dimming mirror (+$269 MSRP) that I didn't want. Not enough of a savings to warrant the trip.

Mick

isellhondas · August 2005

Well, jipster...I deal with this every day so I probably have a pretty good idea of what sells better than others.

And, I'm sure it varies by area.

It's the dealers who order the cars.

jipster · August 2005

That may be true, isells. But, it's hard for a customer to buy something that isn't there. I'm betting that when Ody and Sienna sales slow down, you'll see more of the lowest level trim lines available...without all the souped up options and add ons.

user777 · August 2005

yeah, i'd have to agree 100% with jipster - we wouldn't buy what we couldn't see, feel, and drive... too many unknowns with a swap from another dealer when we clearly saw evidence of bumping.

i find it curious that there are so many EXs on the lots, but little to no LXs. My thinking is, fundamentally, the dealership makes more money on the EXs.

it *IS* possible to get an unbumped LX, but it sure wasn't easy when we were buying.

aside: when I see another LX on the road, I don't think - wow - some more "cheap" consumers - I think, wow - some more "value conscious" consumers...

back on point: i agree if Honda put more that 10% out there, they would ALL sell. it's purposeful, just like Toyota's mind-boggling package mix / availability architecture.

jipster · August 2005

Absolutely...when you think what just the base Ody LX and Sienna CE comes with standard...it's mind boggling.( i.e top of the line engines, 5 speed auto, front and rear air, 4 wheel disc & antilock brakes, power windows and locks, remote entry, CD player, traction and cruise control... airbags everywhere) Ten years ago someone would think todays entry level models would be the luxury laden high end models. There's definitely a market out there for a higher supply of the Ody LX and Sienna CE.

rorr · August 2005

"...4 wheel disc..."

I thought that the Siennas which were not equipped with traction/VSC had drum rear brakes? Also, traction control and 'airbags everywhere' are certainly not standard on the Sienna unless one steps up to the XLE Ltd.

hansienna · August 2005

Hope you are right.

However, the sales of both the Ody and Sienna can never slow down because both Honda and Toyota limit the production of each.

With higher profit for both dealer and manufacturer on the higher priced models and options, there is little incentive to build the Ody LX or Sienna CE / LE with no extra cost options. :P

irg · August 2005

You can get the Sienna airbags (the rear ones) on the LE models too, not just the XLE Limited, depending on the option package you order. Only the CE models don't have them available. I think I read somewhere that for '06 they will be standard on the Sienna in all trim models, like the Odyssey.

rorr · August 2005

I know you can 'get them'. I was only pointing out that they aren't standard equipment, as jipster had mentioned.

Good news that the side/curtain airbags will be standard on the '06 Siennas. If my wife and I had had better luck locating a Sienna with them and the VSC (and dealers more willing to deal on the VERY FEW we did locate), we might be driving a Sienna today instead of an Ody.

crystaltod · August 2005

Because of the packages and not being able to get the options I really wanted. I have a 2001 Leased Sienna that I am returning, so I was looking forward to a new 2005 Sienna of my own.

It was downright maddening that I could not get 8 seats and a power Hatch or Navigation and a 6 Disc CD changer. It was too much "either or" in the Toyo packages, so I went to look at the ODY.

I was still out of luck on the 8 seats/power Hatch combo, but I was able to get everything else I wanted. DVD, NAV w backup camera, 6 Disc Changer, 8 seats, Leather, XM radio, and side airbags. No matter what price or package I chose with Toyo, there was no equal to the options of the ODY EXL RES NAV.

So I went with 05 ODY. I still like the look of the Sienna better, but I needed the amenities. I still miss my power hatch, but I needed the 8 seats more.

05ody · August 2005

I agree if Honda put more LX's on the lot, they would sell no problem. And, like most people here, I barely see any LX's on the lot. I seen maybe 2 or 3 different one's at different times out of about 10 EXL's and maybe 5 EX's. And they might of had 1 or 2 Tourings Now myself I wouldn't of bought the LX, I wish I bought the leather because I like the leather so much in my Accord but I just opened a business and didn't know if it would do well enough to make monthly payments. When I see an LX, which there are actually a few where I live, personally I think the hub caps and all the black trim makes the Odyssey look extreamlly cheap, but like they say its on the inside that counts and all they dont have is auto climate control and a 6 CD changer. Add thoes things and it would be almost the same as the EX on the inside except a few luxury items. (sunshade, rear heat/air lockout ext...)

jipster · August 2005

right...I should have differentiated between what came standard on each van. But, my point was that each comes very well loaded...feature for feature fairly even between Ody LX and Sienna CE. The standard features that the Ody did/did not have was balanced out by the standard equipment that the Sienna did/did not have.

mich_chow · August 2005

Exactly, why I went with the Ody.

First, here is my disclosure: yesterday I bought an Ody.

Now here is my humble reasoning to buy the Ody: before we finally decided on the Ody, I looked at other minivans in the market (like most of us do), including (of course) the Sienna. Granted that both have minor pluses and minuses, and maybe the Ody's side is a little heavier with problems or defects as 05 is the first year of a newly re-designed model. But, we can probably say that these two are one of the better (or maybe the best) vans in current market (please don't get me wrong - other vans are also good, and good seller as we see them on roads in no small numbers). What made me decide on the Ody is their 'PlusOne' seat, and the fact that it can be removed when not needed, and can be used when needed. Sienna higher end models do not offer this. My wife made a comment as we were discussing different makes and models - "people buy minivan mostly because they have kids (as we have our third child on the way), or have a larger family, and need a vehicle that can hold more people. Therefore, it is not only the look, feel, gadgets, etc., etc., etc., (which is certainly important), but a van is also a utility vehicle - people mover, and if it can hold or seat eight passenger when needed, why not have that feature in the $30K+ vehicle, unless the Ody is one of the worst vans with a lot of problems and is not really dependable?" We also looked at the price for both and for the similar features of the Ody (that we wanted), Sienna would be higher for about $2K+.

So we bought the 05 Ody EX-L RES & NAV, and so far I have driven 50 miles (it had only 6 to start with, now it has around 56) and I am loving it, as my wife and my family!

Bottom line, if you are buying a NEW van, whichever it may be, unless something really bad happens (things can happen to mechanical stuff, almost nothing is perfect), you should be okay. I would encourage to consider couple of things - how long you would like to keep it, how important is the feel, driving, gadgets, etc., and of course the PlusOne seat feature and if you will need it or not (just to name a few items to think about). Good luck to you all -- current and future minivan owners.

Current rides:
2005 Ody EX-L RES & NAV (Slate Green/Olive)
1998 CR-V EX (Black)
1987 Chevy S-10 (Black)
Previous rides:
1993 Toyota Tercel (Red)
1987 Subaru Justy (White)

samp · August 2005

Hi there,

I'm trying to find definitive numbers on ground clearance for the Sienna and Odyssey. Honda doesn't seem to publish their number, and some sites publish a "minimum" and "maximum" ground clearance for it. I'm just trying to figure out the exact difference in ground clearance between the Sienna and Odyssey (2005+ models).

Thanks to anyone who can help.

06buyer · August 2005

Hi. Can someone explain to me what I am losing if I were to buy a Sienna AWD XLE with option package # 12 (HW) as opposed to an AWD XLE Limited package # 2 (HO). There appears to be a couple thousand dollar price differential and the only difference I can ascertain is that the Limited has full leather vs leather trim. I appreciate any and all help on this. Thanks.

rorr · August 2005

Well, there are some goodies on the Ltd. which are simply (AFAIK) unavailable on the XLE:

HID headlights
Dynamic Laser Cruise Control
Wood-grain and leather Steering Wheel
Intuitive Parking Assist

and that ever important little "Limited" badge on the tailgate......

dilbertzzz · August 2005

Before you spend a lot of synapse firings trying to figure it out, have you checked to see if either or both is actually available to you? Toyota seems to offer a lot of option packages, but the actual vehicles available in your area will have only a very small subset of those option combinations available. I'm betting you will be lucky to find one or the other of your stated combinations; highly unlikely you will really be able to choose between them. However, stranger things have happened!

vrm · August 2005

I agree with you and others that the Sienna packages and choices are confusing, but I don't think it is geared to the dealer. In fact, most of the dealers told me, and I tended to believe them on this, that they too are somewhat overwhelmed and confused by the packages available, and the zones that Toyota uses.

If Toyota dealers are confused why dont they get this changed? There are regular meetings between the dealer and vehicle makers. If the dealers band together, they have lot of leverage and influence. This is not only true for Toyota but any manufacturer.

I find Toyota pricing via "packages" to be very frustrating and anti-customer. I will never buy a Toyota vehicle until these silly "packages" go away.

The sole purpose of these "packages" is to take more Dollars out of your pocket. YOU as the consumer can also show your might by giving your business to Honda/Kia/Hyundai etc.

dilbertzzz · August 2005

I too have frequently felt the urge to "stir the masses into revolt" against some perceived injustice in the marketplace. However, once my ire has cooled, I find that I serve myself and my family (not to mention my own mental health!) better by avoiding "tilting at windmills." Instead, I acknowledge that the world and everyone in it (including me and mine!) are imperfect and simply try to make the best of the available choices best suited to my family's needs, desires, and budget.

I have also ranted against the ill-advised Toyota method of "offer-it-but-make-it-impossible-to-find." It seems idiotic to me for them to actively irritate customers and so simple to correct (show only what is really available). But then I will bet that most buyers never check the supposed option packages. So, they never get irritated due to blissful ignorance, and it just isn't a problem for them!

So, my (unsolicited) advice is to choose the very best solution for yourself from what actually is available to you. YMMV

user777 · August 2005

So, my (unsolicited) advice is to choose the very best solution for yourself from what actually is available to you. YMMV

Apparently, one can go here:
http://www.toyota.com/sienna/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_SIENNA_INDEX

Select "find local specials" on the left. enter your zip code. choose a dealership, then see the inventory which is available.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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